700 acre expansion of the main military cemetery in Kiev:

In Kyiv, the construction of a new military cemetery with an area of 266 hectares has begun. In the spring, on the whole, the construction of a 100-hectare cemetery with a capacity of 250,000 people was completed, and the reburial of the bodies began.

With the construction of a new cemetery, it became possible to bury about 600 thousand more people.

The new cemetery is 7 hectares larger than the historic Arlington military cemetery in the US.

🇺🇦📢Counter offensive news.

Going bad

In Kyiv, the construction of a new military cemetery with an area of 266 hectares has begun. In the spring, on the whole, the construction of a 100-hectare cemetery with a capacity of 250,000 people was completed, and the reburial of the… pic.twitter.com/ZDNeHLzWpH

— CatEmporor (@CatEmporor) August 22, 2023

Timothy Snyder is a brilliant man, much brighter then the X Twitter hacks posting their drivel. He may or may not be correct in his assessment of Ukraine, but the jacksplat talking down to a brilliant American scholar is definitely wrong in his snark and meme-wisdom.

Russia is continuing to laterally redeploy troops to bolster its defense across the front, but that creates opportunities for Ukraine. Many of those troops have been operating without leave for far too long, and that's without getting into the constitution of Russian armed forces itself, lacking strong NCOs, lacking training for much of the force, etc.

Despite the claims of infinite resources, it's pretty obvious that Russia is struggling to defend itself at the front, in Crimea and in Russia itself. Ukraine took out an S400 system in Crimea and Russia obviously is in short supply so is relocating two systems from the Kuril islands. And Ukrainian drones are continuing to strike targets in Russia just about every day.

Additional Russian lateral redeployments and the immediate commitment of intended operational reserves suggest that short-term reinforcement needs are impeding intended long-term reconstitution efforts. 🧵https://t.co/mwMH8VMG1C https://t.co/lGB5yefWnc

— ISW (@TheStudyofWar) September 2, 2023

Based on the assessment of Yu Koizumi, a Japanese lecturer at the University of Tokyo, Russians have removed S-300V4 surface-to-air missile systems from Kunashiri and Etorofu, the 2 main Russian-occupied Kuril Islands. His assessment is based on satellite pics.

In addition, old… pic.twitter.com/VljpwzINTE

— (((Tendar))) (@Tendar) September 1, 2023

Ukraine is pursuing 7 aims with its unabated drone strike campaign deep inside russia:

1) Degradation of russian military assets & defense capabilities.
2) Dissuasion of russian strikes on Ukraine's energy and heating infrastructure in the coming winter through deterrence.
1/4 https://t.co/mPzoQxcheg

— Thomas C. Theiner (@noclador) August 31, 2023

Couple of interesting reminders below about why Ukraine is skeptical of a negotiated agreement with Russia, even a favorable one, working out long-term.

I’m genuinely puzzled how many times the Kremlin has to say that this is an imperial war of conquest before some people begin to accept it. It wasn’t NATO, it wasn’t Nazis, it wasn’t security, it wasn’t preservation of Russia. It was always, always, about conquest and control.

— Branislav Slantchev (@slantchev) August 31, 2023

During the 2014 battle of Ilovaisk, the Russian high military command gave their word as officers to Ukrainian counterparts that a safe corridor would be opened for withdrawal of the Ukrainian troops. The Russians had lied, opened fire and killed hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers

— Daniel Szeligowski (@dszeligowski) August 31, 2023

Russia, in turn, never intended to fulfill its part of the deal, namely to withdraw its troops from Ukraine. First, the Russian side held local elections in the occupied parts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions in Nov 2014. Next, the Russian troops went on full offensive Jan-Feb 2015

— Daniel Szeligowski (@dszeligowski) August 31, 2023

On numerous occasions, the Russian side also claimed it bore no obligations under the Minsk Agreements. Yet interestingly, Minsk-1, which was signed personally by the Russian ambassador to Ukraine Mikhail Zurabov, envisaged creating security zones in the border regions of Russia

— Daniel Szeligowski (@dszeligowski) August 31, 2023

During the Russian-Ukrainian talks in the initial phase of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Russian side went as far as to make personal threats against the members of the Ukrainian delegation and even their families

— Daniel Szeligowski (@dszeligowski) August 31, 2023

International politics is by no means an abstract theory. Ukraine refuses to negotiate with Russia because the empirical evidence convincingly shows the Russian side has consequently violated any deals it made

— Daniel Szeligowski (@dszeligowski) August 31, 2023

Therefore, any calls for Ukraine to negotiate with Russia must come with a clear proposal of how one is going to ensure Russia would comply with its part of the business. Either you bet your political/expert capital on Russia negotiating in a good faith, or it is just hot air 🔚

— Daniel Szeligowski (@dszeligowski) August 31, 2023

The corruption continues:

[Via Zero Hedge} […] "Defense chief Oleksiy Reznikov has overseen a series of embarrassing military corruption scandals at a time Kiev is trying to tout its democratic and corruption reform credentials. He could be dismissed from the top post as early as next week and given a new role as ambassador to the United Kingdom."

Prominent American neo-nazi thug/leader Kent 'Boneface' McLellan fought with the Azov Battalion and the Right Sector (the two largest and most prominent Ukrainian military squads) in the Donbass war ,and went back to Ukraine last year to fight the Russians.

Quote:

---

"In case the world wonders what happened to all the real skinheads, they all went to Ukraine,"McLellan said.

---

"Biden's better than Trump because he sends rockets to Ukraine," neo-Nazi Blood Tribe leader Christopher Pohlhaus stated at a 9/2 Florida rally

Kent "Boneface" McLellan, ex-volunteer for Ukraine's state-backed Azov Regiment, sieg heigled and bellowed, "Slava Ukraini!"

Video by… pic.twitter.com/cPTk1ynujj

— Max Blumenthal (@MaxBlumenthal) September 3, 2023

This Ukrainian extremist group, called The Azov Battalion, has ties to neo-Nazis and white supremacists. Our latest report on international white supremacy details how they try to connect with like-minded extremists from the US: https://t.co/GtvssxwzbN https://t.co/gGHMM8L46k

— ADL (@ADL) September 23, 2019

In 2019, ADL condemned the Azov Battalion as "neo-Nazi" and "white supremacist extremists." Now they won't say anything because the Biden Admin is arming Azov:

Maybe I'm kind of weird that way, but I find nazis to be particularly repulsive...

But seriously, isn't the confusion here really about the nature of the type of Ukrainian nationalism that has been pushed in that country?

This goes back to the post-war era, when Ukrainian nazi leaders were not only protected, but their movement funded and promoted by NATO (operation code name "Aerodynamic"). The 2014 Maidan Coup was the crowning point of that long-running political project.

https://mronline.org/2022/09/14/ukraine

Quote:

---

Mykola Kyrylovych Lebed was a Ukrainian nationalist political activist and guerrilla fighter. As a leader of OUN-B, he was responsible for the massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia.

In 1940, during the internal conflict that erupted within the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) he supported Stepan Bandera, and, in 1941, became his assistant.

Lebed assumed control of Bandera's faction of the OUN in western Ukraine, which would come to dominate the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) until 1943. As leader of OUN-B, Lebed was responsible for the ethnic cleansing of around 100,000 Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia, including giving orders to carry out the killings

In 1949 he emigrated to the United States and lived in New York. Through Prolog Research Corporation, his CIA funded organization, he gathered intelligence on the Soviet Union as late as into the late 1960s. The CIA project name for the operation was AERODYNAMIC.

Post-war activities

From 1949, Lebed lived in the United States. During 19521974, he headed the Prolog Research Center in New York; in 198285, he was Deputy Chairman and since 1974 he was a Member of the Board of Directors of the institution. In 1956-91 he was a member of the board of the Ukrainian Society of Foreign Studies in Munich and Toronto, publishing committee "Chronicle of the UPA (1975). Author memories "UPA" (1946, 1987). Thanks to his collaboration with the CIA and their active shielding of him, Lebed was never tried for the war crimes he and his men had committed against Poles and Jews during WWII.

The massacres were exceptionally brutal and affected primarily women and children. The UPA's actions resulted in up to 100,000 deaths. Other victims of the massacres included several hundred Jews, Russians, Czechs, Georgians, and Ukrainians who were part of Polish families or opposed the UPA and sabotaged the massacres by hiding Polish escapees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykola_Lebed

---

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/revealed-how-the-cia-protected-nazi-murderers-2158071.html

https://www.jpost.com/international/cia-report-details-ties-between-us-and-ex-nazis

https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea

Big C said:

---

BearHunter said:

---

In 2019, ADL condemned the Azov Battalion as "neo-Nazi" and "white supremacist extremists." Now they won't say anything because the Biden Admin is arming Azov:

---

Doesn't it get tough for you people sometimes... the utter back-and-forth confusion about how you're supposed to feel about Jews? Or do they just send you the talking points every day and you mindlessly parrot them?

---

The talking point you're supposed to parrot was that Trump said Nazis were fine people at Charlottesville. But Trump denounced them and referred to people on both sides of the statue debate as fine people. You guys are the suckers 90% of the time.

bearister said:

---

He is a handsome fella.

---

Big C said:

---

Doesn't it get tough for you people sometimes... the utter back-and-forth confusion about how you're supposed to feel about Jews? Or do they just send you the talking points every day and you mindlessly parrot them?

---

I'm assuming by the unignored posts in an island of blanks that in the absence of any positive news from the front, our resident shills have resorted to their tried and true Ukraine-phobia. They can't help but support the genocide that their dear Putin calls for as one among many false justifications for the war-mongering they amplify.

Notice, btw, that all of Putin's various rationalizations for invading Ukraine have now evaporated, and even his goons in the Russian press don't try to come up with anything beyond pure hate. Russia is at war because The Boss wanted it a war, and no one even bothers with why.

— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) September 3, 2023

But there is plenty for them to crow about - they should be proud of the Russian innovation that will surely protect their air force when their old fashioned air defenses cannot stop Ukrainian drones

Using car tires as a “shield” to protect strategic bombers from drone attacks could be the single most pathetic act in this entire war. The Russian army has achieved an absolute new level of clownery.#Ukraine https://t.co/GJwFQufWhz

— (((Tendar))) (@Tendar) September 3, 2023

And they have no reason to be concerned about Ukraine's developing drone program.

"There will be a boom this fall," - Defense Minister of 🇺🇦Ukraine Reznikov on the production of Ukrainian drones

"I think this autumn there will be a boom in the production of various Ukrainian drones: flying, floating, crawling, etc., and further it will develop in volume," he… pic.twitter.com/Ok0Mj982HR

— 🇺🇦Ukrainian Front (@front_ukrainian) September 3, 2023

And despite Russia's self-avowed unlimited supply of artillery, they are getting outshelled in the south. Perhaps because it's hard to shell when you are retreating / redeploying your troops laterally because you don't know what you are doing.

Ukrainians use artillery twice as much as the Russians in the south

Commander Tarnavskyi reported that the Russians attacked Ukrainian positions 16 times in the past day in the Tauri direction and carried out 688 shellings, carried out 19 airstrikes.

Artillery units of the…

— PStyleOne1 (@PStyle0ne1) September 3, 2023

Rather than acknowledge what's really going on, I've seen shills lately resorting to pathetic propaganda - like pretending that Ukraine is originating attacks from NATO baltics and that the make believe originations will cause Russia to escalate against NATO.

Russia has its hands full with Ukraine and limited assistance from NATO, it wants no part of actual NATO. And Ukraine has shown again and again it does perfectly fine launching attacks from within Russia (where Ukraine claims it launched the recent attacks on Pskov) or from Ukraine proper. If Russia doesn't want to face attacks on Russian soil, it should withdraw from Ukraine and offer something that will get Ukraine to stop - perhaps a partial demilitarization would suffice.

….and for the crowd that likes conspiracy theories like Biden stole the 2020 Election and there exists a Deep State, add this to your basket:

Putin may already be DEAD as 'real' despot has not been seen in public for over a year, Ukrainian spy chief claims


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/23769416/putin-body-double-doppelganger-ukraine-russia-kyrylo-budanov/

Russia-Ukraine war: List of key events, day 558 | Russia-Ukraine war News | Al Jazeera


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/4/russia-ukraine-war-list-of-key-events-day-558

The United Kingdom's military intelligence said Moscow was recruiting from at least 6 million migrants from Central Asia and neighbouring countries, who are living in Russia, to fight in Ukraine. "Exploiting foreign nationals allows the Kremlin to acquire additional personnel for its war effort in the face of increasing losses," the UK's defence ministry said in its latest update.

^ Put this meat grinder side by side with one that is 7-8 times larger, and you will get a true picture of what has really been going on as far as the relative losses - the kind of picture that the British War Department and its affiliates will not divulge.

Since this counteroffensiive started exactly 90 days ago, the KIA ratio has gotten even more lopsided, the Russians have been sitting back from heavily fortified positions and pounding away at the armored columns and human waves that have kept coming at them for the last 3 months, concentrating into "fire pockets".

Those Ukrainian tactics, forced upon them by NATO, which wants tangible results that could justify continuing their massive investment, have played into Russian hands.

NATO and Ukrainian authorities figure they can still keep taking heavy losses as long as their propaganda war is unabated. It's OK if 45,000-50,000 Ukrainian soldiers die the last 3 months, as long as you can blow up the occasional drone hit on Russia into some kind of a gamechanging victory.

The parallels between current-day Ukraine and late-stage WW2 Germany are striking, Germany also used weapons like the V2 to occasionally hit random targets behind enemy lines in order to maintain morale at home. It wasn't until the last few months of the war that the reality started to sink in at home.

Big C said:

---

BearHunter said:

---

This Ukrainian extremist group, called The Azov Battalion, has ties to neo-Nazis and white supremacists. Our latest report on international white supremacy details how they try to connect with like-minded extremists from the US: https://t.co/GtvssxwzbN https://t.co/gGHMM8L46k

— ADL (@ADL) September 23, 2019

In 2019, ADL condemned the Azov Battalion as "neo-Nazi" and "white supremacist extremists." Now they won't say anything because the Biden Admin is arming Azov:

---

Doesn't it get tough for you people sometimes... the utter back-and-forth confusion about how you're supposed to feel about Jews? Or do they just send you the talking points every day and you mindlessly parrot them?

---

The only confusion is for the warmonger left and their straw man arguments. If every conservative is responsible for the bigotry of neo-Nazis, then every liberal is responsible for Stalin, Mao, Antifa, and most of all, southern Democrats from whom they directly trace their lineage.

It's abundantly clear who the real Nazis are in this war. Holocaust mass murderers are celebrated TO THIS VERY DAY in Ukraine. Unlike the left, I don't assume their side believes in the goals of Nazism even though their uncritical support of actual Nazis would suggest that this is the case.

Yes the Me262 was a decade ahead of its time, first plane with swept wings, much better design than the British Gloster Meteor that they developped a year after. Thankfully the Me262 was held back by Hitler who wanted to turn it into a fighter-bomber to the dismay of German Luftwaffe leaders like ace Adolf Galland. The Germans were also severely hampered in the late stages of the war by their shortages in fuel and high-end alloys which severely curtailed the operating life and performance of the Me262 Jumo engines.

Furthermore the Germans wasted their meager resources on weapons like the V1 ("V" for vengeance), which were imprecise jet-powered cruise missiles, and the V1, which was the first ballistic missile, also imprecise. Had they channeled their efforts into building up a large force of Me262 and cheaper Heinkel 162 earlier in the war, they could have easily held back US bombing operations over Germany. Hitler insisted on expanding the V programs with 30,000 V1s and 3,000 V2s built, an incredible waste of their resources.

Hitler favored the V1/V2 because it assuaged his personal lust for vengeance, and because footage of burned up buildings in London or Birmingham helped his propaganda war. These bombings had a near zero impact on the war itself, the V missiles had a very limited military impact. That is the parallel with the Ukrainian drone attacks on Crimea and Moscow, it's mostly a psychological tool.

Someone should be asking Amy Klobuchar about Ukrainian spy, Sergai Dybynyn who is affiliated with the Nazi Azov Battalion since she has a long history with him.

Why Ukrainian spy partook in Jan6 and was never questioned but year later was celebrated not only in Ukraine but a… pic.twitter.com/mffFq7Xtro

— I Meme Therefore I Am 🇺🇸 (@ImMeme0) September 5, 2023

J6 riot Nazis. One of them was affiliated with the Ukraine Azov Battalion.

BearHunter said:

---

Someone should be asking Amy Klobuchar about Ukrainian spy, Sergai Dybynyn who is affiliated with the Nazi Azov Battalion since she has a long history with him.

Why Ukrainian spy partook in Jan6 and was never questioned but year later was celebrated not only in Ukraine but a… pic.twitter.com/mffFq7Xtro

— I Meme Therefore I Am 🇺🇸 (@ImMeme0) September 5, 2023

J6 riot Nazis. One of them was affiliated with the Ukraine Azov Battalion.

---

I can honestly say that my support of our efforts in Ukraine is not about Ukrainians.

It is about our own interest, protecting the existing world order, and not allowing one of our biggest detractors to gain more land and power through aggression.

If it were about lives of the innocent, we would not look the other way in all of the conflicts in Africa or Middle East while we gleefully purchase conflict minerals. oil and diamonds. Now, if Xi invaded Africa, with both Russia and China looking to displace us in the world order, we would care (other than those who would rather promote our enemies).

All of this back and forth on this thread about who is worthy and who is not is just theatrical. The only debate we should be having is what protects our short-term and long-term interest the most.

calbear93 said:

---

I can honestly say that my support of our efforts in Ukraine is not about Ukrainians.

It is about our own interest, protecting the existing world order, and not allowing one of our biggest detractors to gain more land and power through aggression.

If it were about lives of the innocent, we would not look the other way in all of the conflicts in Africa or Middle East while we gleefully purchase conflict minerals. oil and diamonds. Now, if Xi invaded Africa, with both Russia and China looking to displace us in the world order, we would care (other than those who would rather promote our enemies).

All of this back and forth on this thread about who is worthy and who is not is just theatrical. The only debate we should be having is what protects our short-term and long-term interest the most.

---

I don't believe there has been much of that type of discussion in this thread. Some people are pretending that any criticism of Putin's invasion amounts to "Russiaphobia." I don't think any one supporting Ukraine (as I do) is pretending tht Ukraine is a Utopia populated by unicorns - just that they shouldn't have to suffer a genocide brought on by Putin's corrupt revanchism.

But your version of realism will be met by stiff propaganda claiming that all we've done is made Russia stronger lol.

Here are some examples of that Russian strength that we've contributed to:

Oh my goodness, this:

"...many supplies are transported by car",

has a huge numbers of implications for Russian logistics.🤯

Russian De-motorization, Arriving🧵
1/ https://t.co/pbXKtQI9C5

— Trent Telenko (@TrentTelenko) September 6, 2023

Multiple sources that I consider both diligent and conservative in their assessments (including DefMon3 and ISW) are showing that Ukraine has reached the main trench line outside of Verbove. This deserves some discussion. 1/n pic.twitter.com/z3aXV5dinw

— Brynn Tannehill (@BrynnTannehill) September 5, 2023

CNN has published fresh satellite images of the Russian Engels airbase in the Saratov region.

They show two Tu-95 strategic missile bombers covered with car tires.

Why? What for? pic.twitter.com/rjFgAyabBy

— Iuliia Mendel (@IuliiaMendel) September 5, 2023

Actually, easiest way to destroy those pantsir mignt be to hit the towers with UAVs, causing them to collapse https://t.co/GT4EiHKfyC

— Phillips P. OBrien (@PhillipsPOBrien) September 4, 2023

In reality, Russia's true strength lies in its, well, lies. As you can see in this thread if you don't have people on ignore, the amplification of Russia's laughably false propaganda has become a dominant feature in much of the Western discourse.

The Russians have spent decades playing this game and they have gotten into the heads of many Americans on the left, right, and center including not a few DC defense analysts who always overestimate Russian strength.

2/https://t.co/uqoNNJSsHB pic.twitter.com/f9YKemiRLB

— Trent Telenko (@TrentTelenko) September 5, 2023

Meanwhile, for less than 3% of our military budget we have learned more in the last 18 months about modern warfare with "peer" nations than we have in decades. We could probably reduce our military spend by 10% with what we've learned and be far more effective for it. We now know that cheap commodity drones (including waxed paper ones!) can be extremely effective against "state of the art" weapons systems that we and Russia have been developing for decades. We know that Russia's hypersonic missiles are easily defeated.

We now know where our weaknesses would be vs an aggressor like Russia and where our priorities should be. And however this dumb war ends, Russia will take a very long time to recover, if ever, its prior military might.

There are a lot of people pretending to support "realism" but what they really mean is that they support Russia doing whatever Putin decides to do. Your version of realism is from an American perspective which makes sense since you are an American. I would much prefer that Putin never invaded Ukraine and that he withdraw his forces and contribute to the rebuilding of a sovereign Ukraine without interference but we do not control Putin or his decisions.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

I can honestly say that my support of our efforts in Ukraine is not about Ukrainians.

It is about our own interest, protecting the existing world order, and not allowing one of our biggest detractors to gain more land and power through aggression.

If it were about lives of the innocent, we would not look the other way in all of the conflicts in Africa or Middle East while we gleefully purchase conflict minerals. oil and diamonds. Now, if Xi invaded Africa, with both Russia and China looking to displace us in the world order, we would care (other than those who would rather promote our enemies).

All of this back and forth on this thread about who is worthy and who is not is just theatrical. The only debate we should be having is what protects our short-term and long-term interest the most.

---

I don't believe there has been much of that type of discussion in this thread. Some people are pretending that any criticism of Putin's invasion amounts to "Russiaphobia." I don't think any one supporting Ukraine (as I do) is pretending tht Ukraine is a Utopia populated by unicorns - just that they shouldn't have to suffer a genocide brought on by Putin's corrupt revanchism.

But your version of realism will be met by stiff propaganda claiming that all we've done is made Russia stronger lol.

Here are some examples of that Russian strength that we've contributed to:

Oh my goodness, this:

"...many supplies are transported by car",

has a huge numbers of implications for Russian logistics.🤯

Russian De-motorization, Arriving🧵
1/ https://t.co/pbXKtQI9C5

— Trent Telenko (@TrentTelenko) September 6, 2023

Multiple sources that I consider both diligent and conservative in their assessments (including DefMon3 and ISW) are showing that Ukraine has reached the main trench line outside of Verbove. This deserves some discussion. 1/n pic.twitter.com/z3aXV5dinw

— Brynn Tannehill (@BrynnTannehill) September 5, 2023

CNN has published fresh satellite images of the Russian Engels airbase in the Saratov region.

They show two Tu-95 strategic missile bombers covered with car tires.

Why? What for? pic.twitter.com/rjFgAyabBy

— Iuliia Mendel (@IuliiaMendel) September 5, 2023

Actually, easiest way to destroy those pantsir mignt be to hit the towers with UAVs, causing them to collapse https://t.co/GT4EiHKfyC

— Phillips P. OBrien (@PhillipsPOBrien) September 4, 2023

In reality, Russia's true strength lies in its, well, lies. As you can see in this thread if you don't have people on ignore, the amplification of Russia's laughably false propaganda has become a dominant feature in much of the Western discourse.

The Russians have spent decades playing this game and they have gotten into the heads of many Americans on the left, right, and center including not a few DC defense analysts who always overestimate Russian strength.

2/https://t.co/uqoNNJSsHB pic.twitter.com/f9YKemiRLB

— Trent Telenko (@TrentTelenko) September 5, 2023

Meanwhile, for less than 3% of our military budget we have learned more in the last 18 months about modern warfare with "peer" nations than we have in decades. We could probably reduce our military spend by 10% with what we've learned and be far more effective for it. We now know that cheap commodity drones (including waxed paper ones!) can be extremely effective against "state of the art" weapons systems that we and Russia have been developing for decades. We know that Russia's hypersonic missiles are easily defeated.

We now know where our weaknesses would be vs an aggressor like Russia and where our priorities should be. And however this dumb war ends, Russia will take a very long time to recover, if ever, its prior military might.

There are a lot of people pretending to support "realism" but what they really mean is that they support Russia doing whatever Putin decides to do. Your version of realism is from an American perspective which makes sense since you are an American. I would much prefer that Putin never invaded Ukraine and that he withdraw his forces and contribute to the rebuilding of a sovereign Ukraine without interference but we do not control Putin or his decisions.

---

Nobody here is pretending that any criticism of Putin's invasion amounts to "Russiaphobia." I didn't read the rest since you were immediately accusatory and lied.

calbear93 said:

---

BearHunter said:

---

Someone should be asking Amy Klobuchar about Ukrainian spy, Sergai Dybynyn who is affiliated with the Nazi Azov Battalion since she has a long history with him.

Why Ukrainian spy partook in Jan6 and was never questioned but year later was celebrated not only in Ukraine but a… pic.twitter.com/mffFq7Xtro

— I Meme Therefore I Am 🇺🇸 (@ImMeme0) September 5, 2023

J6 riot Nazis. One of them was affiliated with the Ukraine Azov Battalion.

---

I can honestly say that my support of our efforts in Ukraine is not about Ukrainians.

It is about our own interest, protecting the existing world order, and not allowing one of our biggest detractors to gain more land and power through aggression.

If it were about lives of the innocent, we would not look the other way in all of the conflicts in Africa or Middle East while we gleefully purchase conflict minerals. oil and diamonds. Now, if Xi invaded Africa, with both Russia and China looking to displace us in the world order, we would care (other than those who would rather promote our enemies).

All of this back and forth on this thread about who is worthy and who is not is just theatrical. The only debate we should be having is what protects our short-term and long-term interest the most.

---

All very true. Our interests (and the broader interests of liberal democracy) are served and it isn't costing us that much to do it.

(And before we get the usual retort that we are "sacrificing Ukrainian lives" for our interests . . . it's quite clear that we can't make foreign peoples fight if they don't want to fight. This aligns with their interests too.)

sycasey said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

BearHunter said:

---

Someone should be asking Amy Klobuchar about Ukrainian spy, Sergai Dybynyn who is affiliated with the Nazi Azov Battalion since she has a long history with him.

Why Ukrainian spy partook in Jan6 and was never questioned but year later was celebrated not only in Ukraine but a… pic.twitter.com/mffFq7Xtro

— I Meme Therefore I Am 🇺🇸 (@ImMeme0) September 5, 2023

J6 riot Nazis. One of them was affiliated with the Ukraine Azov Battalion.

---

I can honestly say that my support of our efforts in Ukraine is not about Ukrainians.

It is about our own interest, protecting the existing world order, and not allowing one of our biggest detractors to gain more land and power through aggression.

If it were about lives of the innocent, we would not look the other way in all of the conflicts in Africa or Middle East while we gleefully purchase conflict minerals. oil and diamonds. Now, if Xi invaded Africa, with both Russia and China looking to displace us in the world order, we would care (other than those who would rather promote our enemies).

All of this back and forth on this thread about who is worthy and who is not is just theatrical. The only debate we should be having is what protects our short-term and long-term interest the most.

---

All very true. Our interests (and the broader interests of liberal democracy) are served and it isn't costing us that much to do it.

(And before we get the usual retort that we are "sacrificing Ukrainian lives" for our interests . . . it's quite clear that we can't make foreign peoples fight if they don't want to fight. This aligns with their interests too.)

---

That's bullcrap, we can, and have set up regimes that will chase after 60 year olds and forcibly conscript them. We have also pushed the worst kind of nationalism in that country, their heritage from western Ukrainian OUN/UPA fascism, funding them and putting them in Kiev through the Maidan Coup.

.
More mobilization, Ukraine style:

In Zaporozhye, Ukraine, a conscription officer punched a guy, who was trying to run away, in the head and another one kicked him in the ribs.

The police were nearby and did not arrest anyone for it.
. pic.twitter.com/42db7WMSeT

— ⏳Towhee 🌏☮️ (@amborin) August 31, 2023

Dnipro, Ukraine

Conscription officers found some potential cannon fodder at a picnic.

But the picnicers had a different plan. They knocked the conscription officers down, jumped into the car and drove off. pic.twitter.com/Ci0skX7Fu9

— MARIA (@its_maria012) August 30, 2023

The Kiev regime has gone through well close to a million men, with nearly 400,000KIAs and at least as many wounded (including 50,000 confirmed amputees) they are now trying to forcibly consrcipt their diaspora in Poland, Slovakia, Romania etc.

It looks like Ukraine is running out of expendable soldiers for meat assaults on Russian positions at the front line. Aside from daily abductions from the streets across Ukraine, Zelensky is demanding men that avoided conscription and immigrated abroad to be returned to Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/ZQfygSB8m1

— Olga Bazova (@OlgaBazova) September 3, 2023

Ukraine to review all draft exemptions – Zelensky

Kiev wishes to expand conscription as casualties mount on the battlefield.

Those who purchased an exception will have to die too.

These are the boys of rich parents. Therefore, I bet the Kiev regime is going to fall within a… pic.twitter.com/O6OLXOj0vM

— Make Peace Now; alternative news (@AlternatNews) August 31, 2023

Quote:

---

All of this back and forth on this thread about who is worthy and who is not is just theatrical. The only debate we should be having is what protects our short-term and long-term interest the most.

---

We're destroying Ukraine, using them as a wedge against Russia. However, it turns out that this scheme has not benefitted US interests, it has only served to accelerate global dedolarization and the strengthening of the BRICS block, not sealing the Russian alliance with China but also bringing India in the fold and integrating much of OPEC+ including Saudi Arabia into their alliance. Russia is emerging stronger economically, militarily and diplomatically.

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

BearHunter said:

---

Someone should be asking Amy Klobuchar about Ukrainian spy, Sergai Dybynyn who is affiliated with the Nazi Azov Battalion since she has a long history with him.

Why Ukrainian spy partook in Jan6 and was never questioned but year later was celebrated not only in Ukraine but a… pic.twitter.com/mffFq7Xtro

— I Meme Therefore I Am 🇺🇸 (@ImMeme0) September 5, 2023

J6 riot Nazis. One of them was affiliated with the Ukraine Azov Battalion.

---

I can honestly say that my support of our efforts in Ukraine is not about Ukrainians.

It is about our own interest, protecting the existing world order, and not allowing one of our biggest detractors to gain more land and power through aggression.

If it were about lives of the innocent, we would not look the other way in all of the conflicts in Africa or Middle East while we gleefully purchase conflict minerals. oil and diamonds. Now, if Xi invaded Africa, with both Russia and China looking to displace us in the world order, we would care (other than those who would rather promote our enemies).

All of this back and forth on this thread about who is worthy and who is not is just theatrical. The only debate we should be having is what protects our short-term and long-term interest the most.

---

All very true. Our interests (and the broader interests of liberal democracy) are served and it isn't costing us that much to do it.

(And before we get the usual retort that we are "sacrificing Ukrainian lives" for our interests . . . it's quite clear that we can't make foreign peoples fight if they don't want to fight. This aligns with their interests too.)

---

That's bullcrap, we can, and have set up regimes that will chase after 60 year olds and forcibly conscript them. We have also pushed the worst kind of nationalism in that country, their heritage from western Ukrainian OUN/UPA fascism, funding them and putting them in Kiev through the Maidan Coup.

.
More mobilization, Ukraine style:

In Zaporozhye, Ukraine, a conscription officer punched a guy, who was trying to run away, in the head and another one kicked him in the ribs.

The police were nearby and did not arrest anyone for it.
. pic.twitter.com/42db7WMSeT

— ⏳Towhee 🌏☮️ (@amborin) August 31, 2023

Dnipro, Ukraine

Conscription officers found some potential cannon fodder at a picnic.

But the picnicers had a different plan. They knocked the conscription officers down, jumped into the car and drove off. pic.twitter.com/Ci0skX7Fu9

— MARIA (@its_maria012) August 30, 2023

The Kiev regime has gone through well close to a million men, with nearly 400,000KIAs and at least as many wounded (including 50,000 confirmed amputees) they are now trying to forcibly consrcipt their diaspora in Poland, Slovakia, Romania etc.

It looks like Ukraine is running out of expendable soldiers for meat assaults on Russian positions at the front line. Aside from daily abductions from the streets across Ukraine, Zelensky is demanding men that avoided conscription and immigrated abroad to be returned to Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/ZQfygSB8m1

— Olga Bazova (@OlgaBazova) September 3, 2023

Ukraine to review all draft exemptions – Zelensky

Kiev wishes to expand conscription as casualties mount on the battlefield.

Those who purchased an exception will have to die too.

These are the boys of rich parents. Therefore, I bet the Kiev regime is going to fall within a… pic.twitter.com/O6OLXOj0vM

— Make Peace Now; alternative news (@AlternatNews) August 31, 2023

Quote:

---

All of this back and forth on this thread about who is worthy and who is not is just theatrical. The only debate we should be having is what protects our short-term and long-term interest the most.

---

We're destroying Ukraine, using them as a wedge against Russia. However, it turns out that this scheme has not benefitted US interests, it has only served to accelerate global dedolarization and the strengthening of the BRICS block, not sealing the Russian alliance with China but also bringing India in the fold and integrating much of OPEC+ including Saudi Arabia into their alliance. Russia is emerging stronger economically, militarily and diplomatically.

---

Yet it seems strange that Russia is encouraging us to stay out when they are benefitting so much from our participation. It would seem like they would welcome it.

And India and Saudis are not siding with Russia. They are leveraging this opportunity to make more money on oil. The last thing India can do is make us their enemy when so much of their hyper growth is dependent on us. The bottom line is that we did mot want Russia to invade but once they did, we could not be like the liberal DAs and say come commit more crimes violating national sovereignty against nations that are siding with us over Russia. And China, as I am sure you know, has always viewed their destiny as replacing us as the leading world power. They will side with any country that challenges the current world order that promotes Western supremacy and democracy. Let's not pretend that had we given Russia a free pass to invade Ukraine that China would have become our friend to never invade Taiwan, would have created new alliances with us to keep our standing, etc. That's nonsense. The long term play was to show our allirs and our enemies that there will be consequences to those looking to displace us by invading countries that favor us.

We're destroying Ukraine, using them as a wedge against Russia. However, it turns out that this scheme has not benefitted US interests, it has only served to accelerate global dedolarization and the strengthening of the BRICS block, not sealing the Russian alliance with China but also bringing India in the fold and integrating much of OPEC+ including Saudi Arabia into their alliance. Russia is emerging stronger economically, militarily and diplomatically.

100%. Biden neocons weaponized economic sanctions to a degree that has never been done before. Every country in the world is viewing the virulence of this economic attack and thinking, what if we are next? US dollars used to be the safest form of reserves. That is no longer the case. Then there is the fact that at the very least, the US sanctioned the attack on the pipeline of our ally, Germany. Bat**** crazy stuff, all in the name of power.

Russia is destroying Ukraine, by sending their military in and blowing stuff up. Not sure why people are confusing that for the United States.

Zippergate said:

---

US dollars used to be the safest form of reserves. That is no longer the case.

---

Good take. What is now the safest form of reserves?

sycasey said:

---

Russia is destroying Ukraine, by sending their military in and blowing stuff up. Not sure why people are confusing that for the United States.

---

So much for the Ukraine is winning narrative.