Unit2Sucks said:

---

Big C said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Big C said:

---

Russia owns the blame for this war... and... it was unwise for the US/NATO to ever talk about including Ukraine.

Not sure why this is so hard. If you rent a car and park it near Fisherman's Warf with your new iPad plainly visible on the passenger's seat... and it gets stolen, it is still the thief's fault, but you made a major blunder.

---

Even if you only talked about leaving your new iPad plainly visible?

---

The analogy there would be if the bad guys (and yes, I will readily admit that Putin is a bad guy) overheard you at Pier 39 talking about that new iPad that is under the passenger seat of your X rental car parked on the corner of Y and Z streets... and then they broke into your car to look for it.

So, yes.

---

I know we're pretty far removed from reality but I'm enjoying this.

Wouldn't the analogy be that the bad guys overheard me talking at Pier 39 about my friend at the Apple store who's offering me a discount for an ipad a few years from now, but only after my probation is over and I get my financial house in order? And then the bad guys decide to blow up my car because they are android fans and hate the thought of me enjoying an ipad?

Of course this is all preposterous. Putin has no right to destroy Ukraine's sovereignty. Full stop. Regardless of whether he's doing it because of jealousy or his dumb bigoted beliefs or because he wants to prevent US influence in the region is interesting but in no way a justification.

Putin is wrong, full stop. All of this other nonsense is an attempt to distract people from that fact. The truth is we have no idea what Putin would have done to Ukraine had the US never gotten involved and had NATO never even "talked" about eventually admitting Ukraine. Putin has written about his disdain for Ukraine and the fact that he considers them all to be Russian people. Obviously he thinks he has dominion over all Russian people. He's also claimed he wanted to denazify Ukraine (which has nothing to do with NATO or the US) and that he doesn't consider Ukraine to be a real country. He's said similar things about other countries and his official paid propagandists in Russian media have named other countries that they think Putin should go after next.

Maybe the more correct analogy is that some bad guys overheard me talking at Pier 39 and decided to murder my whole neighborhood.

I am going to assume that a discord server somewhere just fired up a bunch of misinformation that will be appearing here shortly. If anyone wants to spend the time to factcheck it, you will likely find what I used to find before I put the useful idiots on ignore - it's some combination of cherrypicking, spin and outright lies.

---

"Putin is wrong, full stop." Maybe some people around here disagree with that, but I do not... and never have.

And the guy in the hypothetical was wrong, full stop, as soon as he broke into your car. Too bad the cops didn't arrest and prosecute him right then, before he murdered your whole neighborhood (sorry about that!).

Russians seize Bohdanivka in Donetsk Oblast DeepState

In addition, the Russians advanced near Chasiv Yar, Novokalynove and Tonenke in Donetsk Oblast.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/13/7451063/

Funny how the British media spins the facts, they say that the railway is "planned', while in fact it is almost finished, construction having started last year...

Quote:

---

Putin's new railway in Ukraine, almost ready. Serious problem for Kiev
April 2, 2024
Putin's new railway in Ukraine, built as a land-based alternative to the bridge over the Kerch Strait, is almost ready.

---

https://www.railwaypro.com/wp/putins-new-railway-in-ukraine/

"The academic, Vladimir Zharikhin, called for Russia to "continue to facilitate the coming to power of isolationist right-wing forces in America," "enable the destabilization of Latin American countries and the rise to power of extremist forces on the far left and far right there," as well as facilitate "the restoration of European countries' sovereignty by supporting parties dissatisfied with economic pressure from the U.S."

Secret Russian foreign policy document urges action to weaken the U.S.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/17/russia-foreign-policy-us-weaken/

Ukrainians flood passport services in Europe to acquire foreign nationality before the new conscription law hits

It will force citizens to register with the military before acquiring foreign documents pic.twitter.com/9FkALV6W17

— What the media hides. (@narrative_hole) April 14, 2024

They don't want to go to the meat grinder for Zelensky.

Cal88 said:

---

Ukrainians flood passport services in Europe to acquire foreign nationality before the new conscription law hits

It will force citizens to register with the military before acquiring foreign documents pic.twitter.com/9FkALV6W17

— What the media hides. (@narrative_hole) April 14, 2024

They don't want to go to the meat grinder for Zelensky.

---

I'm guessing that motivation isn't super-high on the other side either:

"Comrade, you can experience a little action on the Western Front, or you can work 60 hours/week in the ammo factory!"

When will Russian mothers rise up and demand a stop to this war?

Big C said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

Ukrainians flood passport services in Europe to acquire foreign nationality before the new conscription law hits

It will force citizens to register with the military before acquiring foreign documents pic.twitter.com/9FkALV6W17

— What the media hides. (@narrative_hole) April 14, 2024

They don't want to go to the meat grinder for Zelensky.

---

I'm guessing that motivation isn't super-high on the other side either:

"Comrade, you can experience a little action on the Western Front, or you can work 60 hours/week in the ammo factory!"

When will Russian mothers rise up and demand a stop to this war?

---

The Russians have relied almost exclusively on volunteers, they have had 400,000 new soldiers signing up in the last year. They are on the winning side, now firmly in command with air superiority and inflicting far greater losses on the Ukrainians, hence morale has been good on their side. As well the recent terror attack in Moscow has boosted their recruitment.

The opposite is true on the Ukainian side, morale is low, even among the ideologically-driven Azov and Right Sector ultranationalist brigades, which refused to be shipped to the frontlines in the latest meat grinder of Chasiv Yar.

Nazis leaving their positions in Chasiv Yar:

The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine began to disband the 67th Mechanized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which surrendered its positions near Chasiv Yar:

"The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has… pic.twitter.com/ZNi9PCnlaG

— ⏳Towhee 🌏☮️ (@amborin) April 14, 2024

Note as well that Russia has full employment right now and a labor shortage, so it's not like the conscripts have no other options. Russia has been importing labor from former soviet states in central Asia, they are also outsourcing some of their production to places like Kazakhstan.

You want total war? You sure you want total war?

UK's only 155-mm shells plant reports a blast (no serious damage for the factory) tonight. Two days ago, fire started at a US ammo facility in Scranton, producing shells for Ukraine. Today, in Germany, two Russian saboteurs have been arrested. /1https://t.co/Z6bSkVOYyq?

— Sergej Sumlenny, LL.M (@sumlenny) April 18, 2024

MacGregor was right all along.

We tried to warn you. pic.twitter.com/ky1h0dvQrt

— Douglas Macgregor (@DougAMacgregor) April 17, 2024

The Ukraine war is lost, but Hollywood and DC don't know it

Hollywood and DC ignore fact that Russia's army is bigger than when the war began and Ukraine can't keep up
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/ukraine-war-lost-hollywood-dc-dont-know

Quote:

---

On April 10, stars in Hollywood joined politicians in D.C. in demanding that Congress take up a war aid bill authorizing $60 billion in new assistance for Ukraine.

But they're all wrong. The war is lost. In fact, 90% of people in Europe believe that to be true.
If that comes as a surprise, it shouldn't. In late February, the Times of London published the results of a poll asking residents throughout the continent a very simple question:

Can Ukraine win the war against Russia? Only 10% said yes.

As one of Kiev's top military officers told Politico recently, Ukraine can't possibly produce what they need for the battlefield and neither can the U.S. nor Europe. In fact, there's no magic weapon that'll solve Ukraine's lack of manpower that's the foundational problem.

Nevertheless, Russia's war machine continues churn out a shocking amount of war materiel, either on their own or with the help of China. To the point, the Pentagon assesses that they've re-stocked all of their previously destroyed tanks.

In other words, Russian President Vladimir Putin has managed to weather the sanctions storm and then some.

Which takes us to the third and final reason for why only 10% of Europeans think Ukraine can win: bad leadership.

Unfortunately for the West and their propaganda efforts, the Russian people largely view this war as one where NATO forces are the aggressors and they mostly support Putin's plan to stop them.
There is some polling and anecdotal stories that suggest that there's a small amount of internal discontent. But, for the most part, Russians are all-in and feeling confident.

That's not the case for Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and his people.

First, he continues to deal with rampant corruption, to include inside his government and military. As a Zelenskyy aid told Time Magazine back in November, whatever anti-corruption efforts are in place in Ukraine, they're not working.

"People [in the government and military] are stealing like there's no tomorrow."

Next, Zelenskyy himself is under fire for being disconnected from the true state of his military and, critics say, his heavy-handed leadership.

---

One interesting point in that article is that it confirms the state of things in terms of the difference in leadership. Russia has had an efficient leadership and MIC, and is united behind the war effort, while the Zelensky government and military establishment of Ukraine has mismanaged its war.

Quote:

---

Taken together, perhaps that's why an increasing number of Ukrainians think the war is lost as well.
A poll back in November showed that 42% of Ukrainians said they were willing to negotiate a peace with the Russians to end to the war.

That number is up from just 29% in January 2023. And, frankly, the 42% are right. The outlines for a deal are still on the table; they were being negotiated back in April 2022 before Western powers scuttled them to advance President Joe Biden's stated goal of regime change in Moscow.

But that goal is now outlandishly out of reach (and utterly reckless regardless). Instead, the world's focus should be on peace, not advancing another $60 billion in war aid that even Ukrainian generals say won't save them.

That's the blunt reality that 90% of Europeans understand, even if America's Hollywood stars and D.C. politicians do not.

---

I have been following Swiss colonel Jacques Baud since the beginning of the war, he has been a source of sobering analysis right from the start, as a long-time Soviet/Russian analyst for the Swiss army and NATO. His analyses and predictions have come through:

Mike Johnson (D-Ukraine)

— TazTears💦 (@TazTears) April 20, 2024

Have you ever seen the Ukrainian govt waving US flags?

To think that MTG believes she is an intellectual equal to this man and that she has any level of expertise on the subject. She could listen and learn and ask legitimate questions, but no she had to sit there and Dunning-Kruger for people even less informed and intelligent than her.

His book On Tyranny is critical reading in these times of MAGA and Russian disinformation.

A clip from Dr. Snyder’s illuminating testimony about China’s (and Russia’s) political warfare.

Here he summarizes the 6 propaganda themes about the invasion of Ukraine that have been constructed by Russia, then picked up and echoed by China (and some in the U.S). Please listen. https://t.co/AwqpN8UB0A pic.twitter.com/EfNVwdQghb

— Vlada Knowlton 🇺🇦 (@VladaKnowlton) April 18, 2024

blungld said:

---

To think that MTG believes she is an intellectual equal to this man and that she has any level of expertise on the subject. She could listen and learn and ask legitimate questions, but no she had to sit there and Dunning-Kruger for people even less informed and intelligent than her.

His book On Tyranny is critical reading in these times of MAGA and Russian disinformation.

A clip from Dr. Snyder’s illuminating testimony about China’s (and Russia’s) political warfare.

Here he summarizes the 6 propaganda themes about the invasion of Ukraine that have been constructed by Russia, then picked up and echoed by China (and some in the U.S). Please listen. https://t.co/AwqpN8UB0A pic.twitter.com/EfNVwdQghb

— Vlada Knowlton 🇺🇦 (@VladaKnowlton) April 18, 2024

---

And everything Snyder talks about has been echoed in this forum (and more).

Russia's propaganda has always been its strength. Even morons like Trump figured out it's much easier to say you've done something than to actually do it, and saying it is often enough. That's what he was so focused on having Zelensky announce an investigation. And Russian propaganda (as well as the other tools they use to support it - kompromat, direct payment, etc) has been Russia's most important weapon against Ukraine. If Ukraine had received NATO's full support from the get go (including from the US) things would look very different today. Instead, a lot of people believed the propaganda that said Putin wouldn't attack, so our aid was unnecessary, and then after his attack that he would win easily and take Kyiv in weeks, if not days. At every step of the journey this massive disinformation machine helped to slow NATO support and responsiveness.

When intentional shills like Putin88 look back, they recognize where Russia's strength had been but instead are forced to pretend that poor little Russia is bad at PR and very very good at everything else. Privately they know the truth. And then of course there are the useful idiots who actually fall for this stuff (MTG, etc in congress and many simps on BI) but they are so deep in various streams of misinformation that they have no idea which way is up.

Snyder is terrific and a lot of Russian propaganda goes toward discrediting him in favor of other academics who align more closely with Putin's worldview. Mearsheimer, et al.

blungld said:

---

To think that MTG believes she is an intellectual equal to this man and that she has any level of expertise on the subject. She could listen and learn and ask legitimate questions, but no she had to sit there and Dunning-Kruger for people even less informed and intelligent than her.

His book On Tyranny is critical reading in these times of MAGA and Russian disinformation.

A clip from Dr. Snyder’s illuminating testimony about China’s (and Russia’s) political warfare.

Here he summarizes the 6 propaganda themes about the invasion of Ukraine that have been constructed by Russia, then picked up and echoed by China (and some in the U.S). Please listen. https://t.co/AwqpN8UB0A pic.twitter.com/EfNVwdQghb

— Vlada Knowlton 🇺🇦 (@VladaKnowlton) April 18, 2024

---

Snyder's "themes" are incredibly misguided tropes about Ukraine that ideologically-driven people like you believe in.

But the most ridiculous aspect of this is that Snyder refers to these items as "Chinese propaganda".

-No nazis in Ukraine:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/kiev-renames-major-street-to-honor-russian-nazi-collaborator/
Every major Ukrainian city has a Bandera monument and a Bandera thoroughfare, mostly built and renamed after the Maidan coup. Anyone who has read this thread should know by now that Bandera was the leader of the largest SS division of the Wehrmacht, which massacred over 100,000 civilian Poles, Jews and Russians.

Kiev City Hall fest in honor of Bandera's birthday:


Bandera parade in Lviv:



-NATO expansion not the reason for the war:
Here's NATO chief Stotenberg stating the opposite


https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/nato-chief-admits-expansion-behind-russian-invasion

-Ukraine not corrupt:
lulz.

According to Seymour Hersh, CIA Director Burns had to warn Zelensky to stop stealing so much money. His subordinates were angry that he wasn’t sharing the spoils. Do you think that problem has been resolved and Zelensky will share more this time? pic.twitter.com/7eboGKnr4A

— David Sacks (@DavidSacks) April 20, 2024

-Pointless to intervene
Yes, Ukraine never had a chance to defeat Russia, and should have not violated Minsk II, should have accepted the Istanbul Peace Treaty instead of rejecting that Russian offer and executing one of their own negotiators, mafia-style.

The war is already settled, no amount of NATO help or escalation can change the outcome. Ukraine never stood a fighting chance, the cable news MIC generals are mostly in it for the grift, and/or completely deluded in their cultural hubris.

Over half a million Ukrainian soldiers are already dead. The time to stop this war and negotiate a settlement was yesterday, the longer this war goes on, the more Ukraine is going to lose territory and men.

-US lawmakers should worry about their Border, not Ukraine
Ukraine is just the latest chapter in the MIC never-ending thirst for Endless War, and another case of neocon/neoliberal ideology run amok. They have used Ukraine as a battering ram to get to Russia. And while they've failed to weaken Russia, which actually got stronger, they did batter Ukraine in the process. So much for supporting Ukraine...

-Biden bribes in Ukraine
I mean, come on, man!

Snyder is either a complete idiot or a liar, probably a combination of the two.

There's no doubt corporate news lives to bolster Republicans. Current cnn.com headline "By passing Ukraine aid, Johnson becomes unlikely Churchill".

Same way they made 9/11 heroes out of Giuliani and Bush for no reason. The next Republican is always a hero. Until their just Bobby Jindal.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/20/politics/mike-johnson-ukraine-aid-russia-zelensky-putin/index.html

Aid to Ukraine has come with strict conditions, including the creation of a land market that favors powerful interests and concentrates land ownership in the hands of occidental conglomerates.

Additionally, Ukraine's significant debt is being used by financial institutions to…

— Kubair Shirazee (@kubair) April 20, 2024

'"If you think the additional funding passed by the US Congress for Ukraine will change the inevitable outcome of this conflict,

Think again.

According to the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, well over $325 billion has been "given" to Ukraine.

Significant portions of which have been stolen, "lost," or "are untraceable"

For this, nearly 500,000 Ukrainians have died with Trillioms in damage done to the already desperately poor state. Ukrainian attempts at a counterattack were a catastrophic failure, and the Russian Army is today advancing.

$61 Billion more, the vast majority of which will be spent in the hugely profitable weapons factories of the USA and on Ukrainian goverment salaries and pensions, will simply extend the conflict, further enrich the corrupt elites in Kiev and lead to the deaths of what remains of the Ukrianian population of military service age.

The real reason this "extra" money has been approved is to "Save" political careers in Washington, not save the lives or "Freedoms" of Ukrainians.

If "Freedom" and the welfare of Ukrainians actually mattered, we would have had a negotiated Peace long ago, and an entire generation of young Ukrainian men would not be dead."

"Aid to Ukraine has come with strict conditions, including the creation of a land market that favors powerful interests and concentrates land ownership in the hands of occidental conglomerates.

Additionally, Ukraine's significant debt is being used by financial institutions to push for more privatisation and liberalisation in various sectors, such as agriculture, as part of post-war reconstruction efforts.

And let's not forget A significant portion of 'aid' to Ukraine finds its way to occidental weapons manufacturers.

#NATO is facilitating the plunder of #Ukraine

#CeasefieNow
#resist the Empire"

Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

…..and the Russians have no business whatsoever in the Ukraine….nor Poland or the rest of the former Soviet satellite states and Duda has convinced even tRump of that.

Cal88 said:

---

blungld said:

---

To think that MTG believes she is an intellectual equal to this man and that she has any level of expertise on the subject. She could listen and learn and ask legitimate questions, but no she had to sit there and Dunning-Kruger for people even less informed and intelligent than her.

His book On Tyranny is critical reading in these times of MAGA and Russian disinformation.

A clip from Dr. Snyder’s illuminating testimony about China’s (and Russia’s) political warfare.

Here he summarizes the 6 propaganda themes about the invasion of Ukraine that have been constructed by Russia, then picked up and echoed by China (and some in the U.S). Please listen. https://t.co/AwqpN8UB0A pic.twitter.com/EfNVwdQghb

— Vlada Knowlton 🇺🇦 (@VladaKnowlton) April 18, 2024

---

Snyder's "themes" are incredibly misguided tropes about Ukraine that ideologically-driven people like you believe in.

But the most ridiculous aspect of this is that Snyder refers to these items as "Chinese propaganda".

-No nazis in Ukraine:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/kiev-renames-major-street-to-honor-russian-nazi-collaborator/
Every major Ukrainian city has a Bandera monument and a Bandera thoroughfare, mostly built and renamed after the Maidan coup. Anyone who has read this thread should know by now that Bandera was the leader of the largest SS division of the Wehrmacht, which massacred over 100,000 civilian Poles, Jews and Russians.

Kiev City Hall fest in honor of Bandera's birthday:


Bandera parade in Lviv:



-NATO expansion not the reason for the war:
Here's NATO chief Stotenberg stating the opposite


https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/nato-chief-admits-expansion-behind-russian-invasion

-Ukraine not corrupt:
lulz.

According to Seymour Hersh, CIA Director Burns had to warn Zelensky to stop stealing so much money. His subordinates were angry that he wasn’t sharing the spoils. Do you think that problem has been resolved and Zelensky will share more this time? pic.twitter.com/7eboGKnr4A

— David Sacks (@DavidSacks) April 20, 2024

-Pointless to intervene
Yes, Ukraine never had a chance to defeat Russia, and should have not violated Minsk II, should have accepted the Istanbul Peace Treaty instead of rejecting that Russian offer and executing one of their own negotiators, mafia-style.

The war is already settled, no amount of NATO help or escalation can change the outcome. Ukraine never stood a fighting chance, the cable news MIC generals are mostly in it for the grift, and/or completely deluded in their cultural hubris.

Over half a million Ukrainian soldiers are already dead. The time to stop this war and negotiate a settlement was yesterday, the longer this war goes on, the more Ukraine is going to lose territory and men.

-US lawmakers should worry about their Border, not Ukraine
Ukraine is just the latest chapter in the MIC never-ending thirst for Endless War, and another case of neocon/neoliberal ideology run amok. They have used Ukraine as a battering ram to get to Russia. And while they've failed to weaken Russia, which actually got stronger, they did batter Ukraine in the process. So much for supporting Ukraine...

-Biden bribes in Ukraine
I mean, come on, man!

Snyder is either a complete idiot or a liar, probably a combination of the two.

---

One thing that the war in Ukraine is quickly revealing is how many of our so-called leading academic minds are just patsies for the war machine. Snyder is a dumb person's idea of a smart guy is that while he's probably book smart, only propagandized idiots like U2Sucks and blungld would fall for his line of bull***** If you're book smart, but you just accept without evidence the stuff guys like that say, you're not really all that intelligent.

"Ukraine Aid" defense funding is a lie. It's "Seize Eurasia" offense funds. As long as "Seize Eurasia" is Blob policy, it will be trillions to Ukraine & doom to all who oppose.

Trump was impeached over Ukraine military "aid" 3 yrs before 2022's war. This is what FISA is about👇 https://t.co/Oj5HrYA1Ya pic.twitter.com/JySuUCNLEI

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) April 20, 2024

bearister said:

---

…..and the Russians have no business whatsoever in the Ukraine….nor Poland or the rest of the former Soviet satellite states and Duda has convinced even tRump of that.

---

The difference between Vietnam and Ukraine is that

-Ukraine is not halfway around the world but on Russia's border.
-Furthermore, about 1/3 of Ukraine is Russian, has been so since the 1700s.
-Ukraine is run by a regime whose ideology rooted in 1930s Ukrainian nationalism and the cult of Bandera regards Russians as racially inferior enemies and mistreats their large minority.
-Ukraine has stated they wanted to acquire nuclear weapons, and are capable of developing them, and already have large stockpiles of uranium fuel.

dajo9 said:

---

Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

---

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.

Cal88 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

---

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.

---

Russia humiliated itself by trying and failing to sweep in Kyiv. They have already lost and at this point are trying to save face. I have no interest in arguing with your Russian propaganda.

dajo9 said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

---

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.

---

Russia humiliated itself by trying and failing to sweep in Kyiv. They have already lost and at this point are trying to save face.

---

So, on your personal timeline of events, was that before or after Putin died??

Cal88 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

---

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.

---

Russia humiliated itself by trying and failing to sweep in Kyiv. They have already lost and at this point are trying to save face.

---

So, on your personal timeline of events, was that before or after Putin died??

---

Sometime after your made up Time Magazine propaganda

Ukraine being short 500K trained military personnel is propoganda?

Same for not having ammo, tanks, shells, a capable air force, etc.?