The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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movielover
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In reply to Palestinian Chicken • 12:56p, 4/21/24
What do you think of Costco's rotisserie chicken?
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sycasey
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In reply to dajo9 • 1:07p, 4/21/24
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.


Russia humiliated itself by trying and failing to sweep in Kyiv. They have already lost and at this point are trying to save face.

So, on your personal timeline of events, was that before or after Putin died??


Sometime after your made up Time Magazine propaganda

#NeverForget
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oski003
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In reply to dajo9 • 2:19p, 4/21/24
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.


Russia humiliated itself by trying and failing to sweep in Kyiv. They have already lost and at this point are trying to save face. I have no interest in arguing with your Russian propaganda.


This is a horrible, false, and lazy argument. Unfortunately, you can't expect more from someone who shapes the facts to confirm their opinions.
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movielover
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2:23p, 4/21/24
US soldier in (supposedly) Ukraine.

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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 2:36p, 4/21/24
sycasey said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.


Russia humiliated itself by trying and failing to sweep in Kyiv. They have already lost and at this point are trying to save face.

So, on your personal timeline of events, was that before or after Putin died??


Sometime after your made up Time Magazine propaganda

#NeverForget

Here's a reminder of your lame attempt at swiftboating me:

https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/118987/replies/2286166
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dajo9
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In reply to sycasey • 2:38p, 4/21/24
sycasey said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.


Russia humiliated itself by trying and failing to sweep in Kyiv. They have already lost and at this point are trying to save face.

So, on your personal timeline of events, was that before or after Putin died??


Sometime after your made up Time Magazine propaganda

#NeverForget


Part of propaganda is about never admitting you are wrong no matter how outlandish your claim. Cal88 follows this pattern and won't even fess up to what alcohol he had to buy when he lost his 2020 election bets. Putin, who is dead, would be proud.
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Cal88
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In reply to dajo9 • 2:41p, 4/21/24
dajo9 said:
sycasey said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.


Russia humiliated itself by trying and failing to sweep in Kyiv. They have already lost and at this point are trying to save face.

So, on your personal timeline of events, was that before or after Putin died??


Sometime after your made up Time Magazine propaganda

#NeverForget


Part of propaganda is about never admitting you are wrong no matter how outlandish your claim. Cal88 follows this pattern and won't even fess up to what alcohol he had to buy when he lost his 2020 election bets. Putin, who is dead, would be proud.

I doubt you, sycasey, or Z2Sucks have ever been right about one thing on this 240 page thread.
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dajo9
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In reply to Cal88 • 2:47p, 4/21/24
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
sycasey said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.


Russia humiliated itself by trying and failing to sweep in Kyiv. They have already lost and at this point are trying to save face.

So, on your personal timeline of events, was that before or after Putin died??


Sometime after your made up Time Magazine propaganda

#NeverForget


Part of propaganda is about never admitting you are wrong no matter how outlandish your claim. Cal88 follows this pattern and won't even fess up to what alcohol he had to buy when he lost his 2020 election bets. Putin, who is dead, would be proud.

I doubt you, sycasey, or Z2Sucks have ever been right about one thing on this 240 page thread.


I don't think I've made many predictions in this thread but I do know that every time something good has happened for Russia you have been right and every time something bad has happened for Russia you have been wrong.
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sycasey
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2:53p, 4/21/24
I'm not going to dig through this whole thread to find the exact post, but I'm pretty sure that early on I said this Ukraine war would become an expensive, impassable quagmire and I think that's been basically proven right.

Russia could call it off at any time.
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Cal88
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In reply to dajo9 • 3:13p, 4/21/24
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
sycasey said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.


Russia humiliated itself by trying and failing to sweep in Kyiv. They have already lost and at this point are trying to save face.

So, on your personal timeline of events, was that before or after Putin died??


Sometime after your made up Time Magazine propaganda

#NeverForget


Part of propaganda is about never admitting you are wrong no matter how outlandish your claim. Cal88 follows this pattern and won't even fess up to what alcohol he had to buy when he lost his 2020 election bets. Putin, who is dead, would be proud.

I doubt you, sycasey, or Z2Sucks have ever been right about one thing on this 240 page thread.


I don't think I've made many predictions in this thread but I do know that every time something good has happened for Russia you have been right and every time something bad has happened for Russia you have been wrong.

I did comment on the Russian losses in this thread, including posting an analysis of the Ukrainian advance in Kherson and Kharkov last year.


Quote:
I'm not going to dig through this whole thread to find the exact post, but I'm pretty sure that early on I said this Ukraine war would become an expensive, impassable quagmire and I think that's been basically proven right.

It isn't a "quagmire" though, or a stalemate. The Russians have had the upper hand.



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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:15p, 4/21/24
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.


Russia humiliated itself by trying and failing to sweep in Kyiv. They have already lost and at this point are trying to save face.

So, on your personal timeline of events, was that before or after Putin died??


Sometime after your made up Time Magazine propaganda

#NeverForget

Here's a reminder of your lame attempt at swiftboating me:

https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/118987/replies/2286166

It's hilarious that you think this actually addresses my claims about you.
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Unit2Sucks
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5:03p, 4/21/24
Not sure if I missed the discussion of the Ukraine aid package that was recently passed - the headline number is $61B but that's not actually representative of the military aid.

Of the $61B, only $27.6B is to be used by Ukraine to buy US weapons systems and advanced weapons, with $13.4B to replenish US stockpiles, $9B in loans forgivable by Biden with congressional approval and $11B to support our allies in the region. I haven't seen a more detailed breakdown but hopefully someone will do that soon. I've heard it includes long range ATACMS which is nice. I'm sure patriot batteries and missiles as well since Ukraine badly needs missile defenses for its civilians who are under constant attack by Putin's war crime machine.

One of the issues I have with these big aid packages is that they are designed to sound impressive, but I think they sometimes double-count previous packages. Like the $13.4B to replenish US stockpiles is most likely reflective of previous support that our government bragged about providing. In any event, it's not new money or weapons to Ukraine, nor is the $11B for our allies. The real value of the aid package to Ukraine is $36B, most of which comes right back to our GDP in purchases from US weapons manufacturers. The people who complain about the MIC aren't always wrong, this is a win for them. No different from Russia spending $200B in its dumb war and bragging about its resulting increase in GDP.

The forgivable loans are interesting too. They are supposed to be used to help repair Ukraine's energy and infrastructure sectors. Given that Russia is targeting civilian infrastructure, it makes sense. Making it forgivable is better for the US. There is a lot of cognitive dissonance from Russian shills online who take the 3 following inconsistent positions: (i) the US is taking advantage of Ukraine by making these loans, (ii) the US shouldn't be giving Ukraine money, and (iii) Russia is entitled to take over all of Ukraine.

There is nothing wrong with the US giving aid with strings attached. Obviously, Russia's war is one of conquest so asking Ukraine to take on forgivable debt is pretty mild form of control vs say, taking over their damn territory. Maybe this gives us some sort of creditor rights when Ukraine loses its sovereignty, I don't really know.
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Palestinian Chicken
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5:06p, 4/21/24



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movielover
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 6:25p, 4/21/24
Unit2Sucks said:
... There is a lot of cognitive dissonance from Russian shills online who take the 3 following inconsistent positions: (i) the US is taking advantage of Ukraine by making these loans, (ii) the US shouldn't be giving Ukraine money, and (iii) Russia is entitled to take over all of Ukraine ...


You make the oddest statements.

(i) Never read a single person claim that.
(ii) This was a very preventable war, but the US / NATO have been gearing up for this for years.
(iii) I haven't read anyone here make that claim. Many acknowledge that Eastern Ukraine has deep, deep cultural Tues to Russia.

You conveniently leave out:

(iv) Ukraine's Nazi roots
(v) CIA meddling, including 12 secret bases on Russia's border (NY Times)
(vi) NATO is now a paper tiger, the West can't even manufacture 155 shells in adequate numbers, and Ukraine is effectively destroyed, including 500K KIA, 100K+ amputees, and upwards of 400K injured
(vii) The $61B is given to prop up the bloodbath for 6 more months as the UniParty prefers Dementia Biden / Obama / HRC / Jarrett.
(viii) Massive Ukrainian graft and American politicos kickbacks
(iv) 70% of Americans don't want this war. Have immediate peace talks and end the killing, or Russia will take even more of Ukraine. They're moving at will right now.
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blungld
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In reply to Palestinian Chicken • 7:20p, 4/21/24
It's odd that the PHDs from Cal I know who are professors and who have consulted and worked for the state department and the PHDs I know in Poland and Ukraine are also just "book smart" and think Snyder is brilliant and follow him and agree with him. But internet sock puppet master on Cal sports board is of course far wiser and has the real insight.


Tell me, what is your level of education and experience in political science and history and foreign relations and diplomacy? Podcasts and memes?
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cbbass1
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In reply to blungld • 12:01a, 4/22/24
blungld said:
It's odd that the PHDs from Cal I know who are professors and who have consulted and worked for the state department and the PHDs I know in Poland and Ukraine are also just "book smart" and think Snyder is brilliant and follow him and agree with him. But internet sock puppet master on Cal sports board is of course far wiser and has the real insight.


Tell me, what is your level of education and experience in political science and history and foreign relations and diplomacy? Podcasts and memes?
The internet sock puppet master on the Cal sports board has enough education & experience in political science & history to know that the NeoCons were lying about Iraq's WMDs in 2003.

Everyone else in Washington DC, all of Congress but one (Barbara Lee), and NYT, WaPo, MSNBC, Fox -- the entire MSM, and all the so-called "experts" -- were either FOOLED, or they were knowingly promoting a LIE.

Check in with your PhDs, professors, and State Dept friends. Did they get sucked in on Iraq, too?
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cbbass1
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In reply to Cal88 • 12:34a, 4/22/24
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
sycasey said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
dajo9 said:
Putin88 putting in overtime work for Russia these days. Sad he hasn't been promoted out of this crappy post yet.

I get a lot of ad hominems with this and other issues because people like you have no answer to my arguments.


Russia humiliated itself by trying and failing to sweep in Kyiv. They have already lost and at this point are trying to save face.

So, on your personal timeline of events, was that before or after Putin died??


Sometime after your made up Time Magazine propaganda

#NeverForget


Part of propaganda is about never admitting you are wrong no matter how outlandish your claim. Cal88 follows this pattern and won't even fess up to what alcohol he had to buy when he lost his 2020 election bets. Putin, who is dead, would be proud.

I doubt you, sycasey, or Z2Sucks have ever been right about one thing on this 240 page thread.


I don't think I've made many predictions in this thread but I do know that every time something good has happened for Russia you have been right and every time something bad has happened for Russia you have been wrong.

I did comment on the Russian losses in this thread, including posting an analysis of the Ukrainian advance in Kherson and Kharkov last year.


Quote:
I'm not going to dig through this whole thread to find the exact post, but I'm pretty sure that early on I said this Ukraine war would become an expensive, impassable quagmire and I think that's been basically proven right.

It isn't a "quagmire" though, or a stalemate. The Russians have had the upper hand.



Here's a direct link to the Politico Europe article:
Ukraine is heading for defeat

What I didn't see mentioned in the article was the fact that there are no 155mm artillery rounds available to Ukraine anywhere. They might actually get them if they're still fighting 2 years from now.

Even IF they got them, there will be no one left to fire them. Ukrainian men -- even the Azov neo-Nazis -- are leaving the battlefield, choosing to stay alive rather than die for a lost cause.

The $Billions will keep the MIC happy... But that's all.

The Patriot Missile Battery will do Ukraine no good. Russia, like Iran, will just throw a ton of cheap drones at it, use all the interceptors, and then Ukraine will be right back where it started, with no air defense.

Calling the Ukraine aid a "loan" is a joke. The loan will be forgiven by one or several extremely corrupt politicians, who are laughing all the way to the bank on this one.

NeoCons win. Taxpayers lose. [Correction: Everyone BUT the NeoCons & their enablers loses.]

Note: Putin has said that he will not kill a head of state.

Zelenskyy's official term expires on May 20th. He canceled elections, so there's no process to replace him.

Looks like someone has about 29 days of immunity left. Let's just say that he'll have an incentive to negotiate a settlement & get this stupid war over with.

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Palestinian Chicken
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In reply to blungld • 1:32a, 4/22/24
blungld said:
It's odd that the PHDs from Cal I know who are professors and who have consulted and worked for the state department and the PHDs I know in Poland and Ukraine are also just "book smart" and think Snyder is brilliant and follow him and agree with him. But internet sock puppet master on Cal sports board is of course far wiser and has the real insight.


Tell me, what is your level of education and experience in political science and history and foreign relations and diplomacy? Podcasts and memes?
Wow, there's a lot of stupid Cal Ph.D's out there who have consulted and worked for the State Department and in Poland and Ukraine then, cause I didn't even need my Bachelor of Arts degree to know that Ukraine was going to lose to Russia. Turns out, all I needed to do was master elementary school math.

Unfortunately, all of Timothy Snyder's degrees couldn't stop him from saying this.


He's also the guy who just told Congress there's hardly any Nazis in Ukraine, but Pepperidge Farms remembers.


I'll spare you his fiction of himself as a hero in exposing the fake Russiagate scandal.

Someday, perhaps you will learn that all the degrees in the world doesn't mean that someone knows what they're talking about. Or maybe they're so blinded by their biases that they convince themselves of something that isn't true. Or maybe they're just a liar. I can't tell you why Timothy Snyder says the stupid things he does on Twitter day after day. All I can tell you is that he does.
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dajo9
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In reply to cbbass1 • 2:54a, 4/22/24
cbbass1 said:
blungld said:
It's odd that the PHDs from Cal I know who are professors and who have consulted and worked for the state department and the PHDs I know in Poland and Ukraine are also just "book smart" and think Snyder is brilliant and follow him and agree with him. But internet sock puppet master on Cal sports board is of course far wiser and has the real insight.


Tell me, what is your level of education and experience in political science and history and foreign relations and diplomacy? Podcasts and memes?
The internet sock puppet master on the Cal sports board has enough education & experience in political science & history to know that the NeoCons were lying about Iraq's WMDs in 2003.

Everyone else in Washington DC, all of Congress but one (Barbara Lee), and NYT, WaPo, MSNBC, Fox -- the entire MSM, and all the so-called "experts" -- were either FOOLED, or they were knowingly promoting a LIE.

Check in with your PhDs, professors, and State Dept friends. Did they get sucked in on Iraq, too?


The Iraq Authorization for Use of Force was introduced in the House by Republican pedophile Speaker Denny Hastert and received 133 no votes, 95% of which were from Democrats.
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Cal88
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5:30a, 4/22/24




"In the not too distant future, Ukraine will be back before the Congress seeking more funding. The arguments will be the same without it Ukraine will collapse and we can't let Putin have a victory but the facts on the ground will be worse. More Ukrainian soldiers will have died, more of its infrastructure will have been destroyed, and more of its territory will be occupied by Russia. What will Congress do then?

Appropriate more funds, I suspect but probably in the middle of the night, without all the flags and fanfare."

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Unit2Sucks
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10:25a, 4/22/24
Putin's state media is apoplectic about the "betrayal" by the GOP of their Putin, referring to them as traitors, along with a smorgasbord of Ameri-phobic non-sense.

Note that this article was written by Julia Davis who Putin has conditioned his shills to speak out against. This is just a small taste ...

Quote:
When Speaker Johnson finally advanced the long-stalled aid package and the House approved $61bn of desperately needed foreign aid for Ukraine including a measure to allow the sale of frozen Russian sovereign assets to help Ukraine's war effort the disappointment in Moscow was palpable.

During Sunday's broadcast of Sunday Evening with Vladimir Solovyov, Russia's No. 1 propagandist Vladimir Solovyov took comfort by repeating his go-to nuclear schtick, describing himself as "a member of a small group of nuclear maniacs, the proponents of nuclear Armageddon." He vowed that Russia would keep fighting and that the war or wars would continue for a long time. He surmised, "I believe that a war with NATO is unavoidable."

Solovyov noted: "We are dealing with a cunning, systematic, and extremely brutal enemy. It's not about negotiations. It's either us or them." He added: "What is interesting is how Biden totally broke Trump and his supporters. He utterly destroyed them! This is Biden's unequivocal, brutal victory because, in return, he did not give anything to Republicans."

Solovyov yelled, "Biden achieved everything! He apparently used backstage methods to lure to his side the man whom the Republicans chose to represent the House [Speaker Johnson.] He betrayed them! He totally betrayed them! Not us, we have no friends there . . . This is all you need to know about American politics. They're traitors!"

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cbbass1
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In reply to dajo9 • 11:55a, 4/22/24
dajo9 said:
cbbass1 said:
blungld said:
It's odd that the PHDs from Cal I know who are professors and who have consulted and worked for the state department and the PHDs I know in Poland and Ukraine are also just "book smart" and think Snyder is brilliant and follow him and agree with him. But internet sock puppet master on Cal sports board is of course far wiser and has the real insight.


Tell me, what is your level of education and experience in political science and history and foreign relations and diplomacy? Podcasts and memes?
The internet sock puppet master on the Cal sports board has enough education & experience in political science & history to know that the NeoCons were lying about Iraq's WMDs in 2003.

Everyone else in Washington DC, all of Congress but one (Barbara Lee), and NYT, WaPo, MSNBC, Fox -- the entire MSM, and all the so-called "experts" -- were either FOOLED, or they were knowingly promoting a LIE.

Check in with your PhDs, professors, and State Dept friends. Did they get sucked in on Iraq, too?


The Iraq Authorization for Use of Force was introduced in the House by Republican pedophile Speaker Denny Hastert and received 133 no votes, 95% of which were from Democrats.
Exactly. Then, the NeoCons were in the GOP, and the anti-war Dems initially stood their ground. In the end, the anti-war Dems caved -- except for Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA).

The NeoCons switched to the "Democratic" Party when Obama was elected in 2008. So now, the resistance to spending on Ukraine comes from the GOP. It's not that they're anti-war; their objection was that getting control of the borders was a higher spending priority than spending on the Ukraine war.

In 2003, the overwhelming "Saddam = Evil / "Axis Of Evil" / WMDs" propaganda push, with along with bipartisan majorities in Congress, led us to the biggest foreign policy disaster since Vietnam.

In this case, Speaker Johnson caved to the NeoCons.

When both parties agree, the American People are rarely better off.

I suspect that Trump, desperate for cash, was assured "compensation" to back off on his opposition to the spending bill, and help lead the GOP to capitulation.
Ukraine Aid Divides Republicans, After Trump Tones Down His Resistance

Expect Trump supporters to be pretty angry about Trump caving to the NeoCons on Ukraine. This will definitely hurt Trump in the polls.


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dajo9
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In reply to cbbass1 • 11:57a, 4/22/24
cbbass1 said:
dajo9 said:
cbbass1 said:
blungld said:
It's odd that the PHDs from Cal I know who are professors and who have consulted and worked for the state department and the PHDs I know in Poland and Ukraine are also just "book smart" and think Snyder is brilliant and follow him and agree with him. But internet sock puppet master on Cal sports board is of course far wiser and has the real insight.


Tell me, what is your level of education and experience in political science and history and foreign relations and diplomacy? Podcasts and memes?
The internet sock puppet master on the Cal sports board has enough education & experience in political science & history to know that the NeoCons were lying about Iraq's WMDs in 2003.

Everyone else in Washington DC, all of Congress but one (Barbara Lee), and NYT, WaPo, MSNBC, Fox -- the entire MSM, and all the so-called "experts" -- were either FOOLED, or they were knowingly promoting a LIE.

Check in with your PhDs, professors, and State Dept friends. Did they get sucked in on Iraq, too?


The Iraq Authorization for Use of Force was introduced in the House by Republican pedophile Speaker Denny Hastert and received 133 no votes, 95% of which were from Democrats.
Exactly. Then, the NeoCons were in the GOP, and the anti-war Dems initially stood their ground. In the end, the anti-war Dems caved -- except for Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA).

The NeoCons switched to the "Democratic" Party when Obama was elected in 2008. So now, the resistance to spending on Ukraine comes from the GOP. It's not that they're anti-war; the objection is that getting control of the borders is a higher priority than spending on the Ukraine war.

In 2003, the overwhelming "Saddam = Evil / "Axis Of Evil" / WMDs" propaganda push, with along with bipartisan majorities in Congress, led us to the biggest foreign policy disaster since Vietnam.

In this case, Speaker Johnson caved to the NeoCons.

When both parties agree, the American People are rarely better off.

I suspect that Trump, desperate for cash, was assured "compensation" to back off on his opposition to the spending bill, and help lead the GOP to capitulation.
Ukraine Aid Divides Republicans, After Trump Tones Down His Resistance

Expect Trump supporters to be pretty angry about Trump caving to the NeoCons on Ukraine. This will definitely hurt Trump in the polls.


Barbara Lee made that cowardice vote to not respond militarily to 9/11. Her solitary vote had nothing to do with Iraq.
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cbbass1
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In reply to dajo9 • 12:00p, 4/22/24
dajo9 said:
cbbass1 said:
dajo9 said:
cbbass1 said:
blungld said:
It's odd that the PHDs from Cal I know who are professors and who have consulted and worked for the state department and the PHDs I know in Poland and Ukraine are also just "book smart" and think Snyder is brilliant and follow him and agree with him. But internet sock puppet master on Cal sports board is of course far wiser and has the real insight.


Tell me, what is your level of education and experience in political science and history and foreign relations and diplomacy? Podcasts and memes?
The internet sock puppet master on the Cal sports board has enough education & experience in political science & history to know that the NeoCons were lying about Iraq's WMDs in 2003.

Everyone else in Washington DC, all of Congress but one (Barbara Lee), and NYT, WaPo, MSNBC, Fox -- the entire MSM, and all the so-called "experts" -- were either FOOLED, or they were knowingly promoting a LIE.

Check in with your PhDs, professors, and State Dept friends. Did they get sucked in on Iraq, too?


The Iraq Authorization for Use of Force was introduced in the House by Republican pedophile Speaker Denny Hastert and received 133 no votes, 95% of which were from Democrats.
Exactly. Then, the NeoCons were in the GOP, and the anti-war Dems initially stood their ground. In the end, the anti-war Dems caved -- except for Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA).

The NeoCons switched to the "Democratic" Party when Obama was elected in 2008. So now, the resistance to spending on Ukraine comes from the GOP. It's not that they're anti-war; the objection is that getting control of the borders is a higher priority than spending on the Ukraine war.

In 2003, the overwhelming "Saddam = Evil / "Axis Of Evil" / WMDs" propaganda push, with along with bipartisan majorities in Congress, led us to the biggest foreign policy disaster since Vietnam.

In this case, Speaker Johnson caved to the NeoCons.

When both parties agree, the American People are rarely better off.

I suspect that Trump, desperate for cash, was assured "compensation" to back off on his opposition to the spending bill, and help lead the GOP to capitulation.
Ukraine Aid Divides Republicans, After Trump Tones Down His Resistance

Expect Trump supporters to be pretty angry about Trump caving to the NeoCons on Ukraine. This will definitely hurt Trump in the polls.


Barbara Lee made that cowardice vote to not respond militarily to 9/11. Her solitary vote had nothing to do with Iraq.
"Cowardice?"

Her 'No' vote was far more courageous than all of the 'Yes' votes combined.

You have no idea how politics works.
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bear2034
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12:44p, 4/22/24
Quagmire?

"War is not meant to be won. It's meant to be continuous." - George Orwell
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Zippergate
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1:20p, 4/22/24
Very interesting thread. Read all three posts.

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bear2034
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1:32p, 4/22/24
The Neo-Cons in the Democratic Party support the Neo-Nazis in the Azov battalion.
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blungld
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In reply to cbbass1 • 3:30p, 4/22/24
Nope. Next question.
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blungld
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In reply to Palestinian Chicken • 3:35p, 4/22/24
Palestinian Chicken said:
Someday, perhaps you will learn that all the degrees in the world doesn't mean that someone knows what they're talking about. Or maybe they're so blinded by their biases that they convince themselves of something that isn't true. Or maybe they're just a liar. I can't tell you why Timothy Snyder says the stupid things he does on Twitter day after day. All I can tell you is that he does.
I missed the part where you telll me your credentials and why you are more knowledgeable then experts in the field. What is your education and career as it relates to Ukraine and diplomacy/political science/history? Gonna answer or just want to dodge again?
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Zippergate
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In reply to blungld • 4:38p, 4/22/24
Who are these experts of yours? Are we supposed to just take your word for it?
Many publicly-recognized foreign policy experts warned against the exact policies the US/NATO have pursued and it has played out as they predicted: conflict. On the other side, the neocons have been given carte blanche to dictate our foreign policy and gotten us into one hot mess after another. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps your prejudices have caused you to support actions that in the end have been catastrophic for the Ukrainian people? The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
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blungld
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In reply to Zippergate • 5:17p, 4/22/24
Zippergate said:
Who are these experts of yours? Are we supposed to just take your word for it?
Many publicly-recognized foreign policy experts warned against the exact policies the US/NATO have pursued and it has played out as they predicted: conflict. On the other side, the neocons have been given carte blanche to dictate our foreign policy and gotten us into one hot mess after another. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps your prejudices have caused you to support actions that in the end have been catastrophic for the Ukrainian people? The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
Again, let's review. The question is what are YOUR credentials. Try and follow.
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Palestinian Chicken
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In reply to Zippergate • 8:34p, 4/22/24
Zippergate said:
Who are these experts of yours? Are we supposed to just take your word for it?
Many publicly-recognized foreign policy experts warned against the exact policies the US/NATO have pursued and it has played out as they predicted: conflict. On the other side, the neocons have been given carte blanche to dictate our foreign policy and gotten us into one hot mess after another. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps your prejudices have caused you to support actions that in the end have been catastrophic for the Ukrainian people? The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
He thinks he gets to assert a bunch of unnamed experts that he "knows" and then demand other people's credentials when nobody gives a **** about his opinion.

Meanwhile,



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Cal88
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2:27a, 4/23/24
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Palestinian Chicken
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:06a, 4/23/24
Cal88 said:
That's over 100,000 smart people who decided their lives were more important than dying for U.S. foreign policy and globalist energy goals.

Not to worry though. I have a great plan for how we can replenish Ukraine's military.

First off, all the Russophobe academics who have been supporting this war, it's long past time for you to pick up a rifle and show us what Ukrainian sovereignty means to you. I'm talking about you Timothy Snyder and your neocon pal at Stanford, Michael McFaul. McFaul also has at least one son who is prime Ukraine fighting age, but these academics should bring along all of their able-bodied children. blungld also has a line on some Cal Ph.D's and some Polish and Ukrainian Ph.D's who probably ought to be able to mow some people down beating them to death with their advanced degrees. I bet they probably have a lot of able bodied family members who'd like to join the cause.

We got 311 congressmen who voted yes on the foreign aid, so I'm sending them and their family members over as well. The one who voted present gets to go as well - you didn't vote no, so we're counting it as yes. We'll be adding a bunch of senators to that list soon as well.

Biden is probably too old, even for the Ukraine Army, so he can stay. Besides, there's the risk he might die in combat and I want him to be very much alive on Election Day when he gets voted out of office.
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blungld
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In reply to Palestinian Chicken • 6:30a, 4/23/24
Palestinian Chicken said:
Zippergate said:
Who are these experts of yours? Are we supposed to just take your word for it?
Many publicly-recognized foreign policy experts warned against the exact policies the US/NATO have pursued and it has played out as they predicted: conflict. On the other side, the neocons have been given carte blanche to dictate our foreign policy and gotten us into one hot mess after another. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps your prejudices have caused you to support actions that in the end have been catastrophic for the Ukrainian people? The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
He thinks he gets to assert a bunch of unnamed experts that he "knows" and then demand other people's credentials
How about this. Let's ignore all my nonexistent make believe experts. They don't exist.

I'm only asking what your expertise and experience is so that we know how credible YOU are and why we should take YOUR opinions seriously. The fact that you don't want to answer and have dodged this now 4 times says a lot. But other than keyboard warrior, what is your educational degree and career experience in history, political science, foreign relations, etc? I would think you would want to tell us so that we knew how well informed you were and so that when you contradict people like Dr. Snyder we have reason to listen and understand that you know more than he does.

Going to answer or just keeping being a big baby?
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