Cal88 said:

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bearister said:

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movielover said:

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ESSA News: Russia recruits African mercenaries with $2,200 monthly salary

https://essanews.com/russia-recruits-african-mercenaries-with-2-200-monthly-salary,7032680003155585a

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I'm confused. I thought the young men in Russia were jockeying for position in recruitment lines like they were buying Stones tickets.

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The Russians are building up a large, permanent army, that's not quite as large as the Soviet army was, but is much larger than what they've had in post-Soviet times, around 1.25-1,5 million men. Russia right now has around a half million soldiers sitting in reserve, in case NATO escalates... That is the main reason NATO hasn't escalated, at least not with boots on the ground.

The mercs they would hire would get the most difficult, higher risk tasks the same way Wagner types got.

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The main reason NATO hasn't escalated isn't because we are quaking in our boots because of some mercenaries across the Russian border. It's because we knew all along that it would be a lousy idea to escalate.

Big C said:

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Cal88 said:

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bearister said:

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movielover said:

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ESSA News: Russia recruits African mercenaries with $2,200 monthly salary

https://essanews.com/russia-recruits-african-mercenaries-with-2-200-monthly-salary,7032680003155585a

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I'm confused. I thought the young men in Russia were jockeying for position in recruitment lines like they were buying Stones tickets.

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The Russians are building up a large, permanent army, that's not quite as large as the Soviet army was, but is much larger than what they've had in post-Soviet times, around 1.25-1,5 million men. Russia right now has around a half million soldiers sitting in reserve, in case NATO escalates... That is the main reason NATO hasn't escalated, at least not with boots on the ground.

The mercs they would hire would get the most difficult, higher risk tasks the same way Wagner types got.

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The main reason NATO hasn't escalated isn't because we are quaking in our boots because of some mercenaries across the Russian border. It's because we knew all along that it would be a lousy idea to escalate.

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That was very much the opinion of Obama in 2014, for all his other flaws he understood that Russia had much greater stakes and escalatory dominance in Ukraine.

Quote:

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It was clear Obama had no intention of being drawn into rash action or any kind of dangerous confrontation with Putin over Ukraine. "This is not another cold war that we're entering into. The United States and Nato do not seek any conflict with Russia," Obama said. "Now is not the time for bluster … There are no easy answers, no military solution."

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Somewhere along the line since then, the neocons, led by Victoria Nuland, whose family had a generational grudge against Russia and everything Russian, reversed policy and built up the current state of things. These people aren't quite as rational as Obama was...

I think you're overlooking an important detail.


Ya know, the one where a sovereign nation invaded a neighboring sovereign nation.

That seems important to this discussion Regardless of the inevitable hand waving and "But NATO!!!!" that you will trot out to justify invading a neighboring sovereign nation.

Imagine being a Russian young man being told to go kill Ukrainians who you have no beef with and may see as brothers because your corrupt leader doesn't care if you die as he feeds his ego and the reason is as lame and tenuous as "But NATO might get closer to us."

AunBear89 said:

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I think you're overlooking an important detail.


Ya know, the one where a sovereign nation invaded a neighboring sovereign nation.

That seems important to this discussion Regardless of the inevitable hand waving and "But NATO!!!!" that you will trot out to justify invading a neighboring sovereign nation.

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The notion that the war started in 22 with Russia deciding to invade Ukraine for sh*ts and giggles is incredibly reductionist and misguided, lacking of any historical and geopolitical context.

‼️‼️Please watch and share: Professor Jeffrey D. Sachs drops truth bombs on the 30 year long meddling of the #US in #Ukraine

“I'm deeply unimpressed with the analysis that the war in Ukraine began on February 24 by an unprovoked attack by President #Putin - it's just not true." pic.twitter.com/GAsgizC4Kq

— Matreshka 🌺 🇷🇺🇰🇿🇨🇦 (@MatreshkaRF) February 10, 2023

Putin was completely pro Europe. Yes.
And pro us, by the way.
I know, and we don't want to talk about this.
We don't want to admit it, because
we don't want anything other than unprovoked.

Professor Jeffrey Sachs is the President of the UN Sustainable Development Solutions… pic.twitter.com/FULCdQdUw7

— Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil (@ivan_8848) May 28, 2024

Furthermore, the post-Maidan Coup Kiev government which overthrew a democratically-elected government and imposed on one third of the country sectarian laws that turned their russophones into second class citizens invalidated the sovereignty of the Kiev government over south and eastern Ukraine. That government lost its legitimacy when it sent its tanks and bombers to crush local rebellions across that region.

blungld said:

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Imagine being a Russian young man being told to go kill Ukrainians who you have no beef with and may see as brothers because your corrupt leader doesn't care if you die as he feeds his ego and the reason is as lame and tenuous as "But NATO might get closer to us."

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Russia has been taking in around 40,000 volunteers per month, while Ukraine has been resorting to press-gangs rounding up hapless Ukrainian men of all ages from city streets. Most of the Ukrainians who wanted to fight Russia are already dead or wounded.

The deafening silence from the pro-Ukrainian crowd on the topic of stealing human beings off the street and sending them to die without sufficient training is all you need to know about their values. pic.twitter.com/56LriOIDIo

— ayden (@squatsons) June 1, 2024

NATO's goal is to dismantle Russia, or at the very least return to the 1990s when Russia's huge wealth was under its orbit, and almost half of Russians lived below the poverty line.




For the general public, this war has been reduced to a Hollywood storyboard along the lines of Star Wars or a John Ford western. But those who are capable of looking beyond such a simplistic framework and basic jingoism, the geopolitical context is pretty clear.

I emailed back and forth a friend from my undergrad days, who went on to get a one-year mickey mouse masters degree from Harvard. He's a political junkie who has lived for years in and around DC. He loves the glam and ocassional elbow rubbing, and seems superficial in his interests.

His emails were bereft of facts, it was just 'Putin should be punished', 'Putin is dangerous'. Three comments really stood out.

1. He had no idea NATO / US were vastly outmatched sending ammunition.

2. He said he would check my assertions with his friend, a defense lobbyist. Really.

3. When I informed him that Russia was trouncing Ukraine and NATO, and he had not a single fact to rebut me, he finally replied: "Nuke them."

Aside

Ran into another Ukrainian in Monterey at the cute Captain and Stoker Coffee downtown. She had a Cal sweatshirt on, so I engaged her (MBA program).

I asked her, "What do you think of Zelensky?" She replied, "He fights for our country." Her endorsement seemed weak.

The next Ukrainians I meet, if they're up for it, I need to ask about the coup, the Civil War, Ukraine neutrality, and Boris (USA) dunking on a peace deal. And if I'm lucky, Banderas.

EDITED.

movielover said:

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I emailed back and forth a friend from my undergrad days, who went on to get a one-year mickey mouse masters degree from Harvard. He's a political junkie who has lived for years in and around DC. He loves the glam and ocassional elbow rubbing, and seems superficial in his interests.

His emails were bereft of facts, it was just 'Putin should be punished', 'Putin is dangerous'. Three comments really stood out.

1. He had no idea NATO / US were vastly outmatched sending ammunition.

2. He said he would check my assertions with his friend, a defense lobbyist. Really.

3. When I informed him that Russia was trouncing Ukraine and NATO, and he had not a single fact to rebut me, he finally replied: "Nuke them."

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Unfortunately, that guy is not that far detached from the mindset of policymakers like McFaul, Nuland, Blinken et al... Russia is "a gas station with nukes" / "Nigeria with snow" etc, that' their mindset.

Every day you get new angles on the Ukrainian press gang saga, mostly sad stuff like that poor middle aged father being literally pried off his wife and son to be sent to the meat grinder after a week of training, or these scenes below:

🇺🇦 In Transcarpathia, Western Ukraine, military and police detained Krishnaites and took them to conscription office.

In the video, Krishna believers are continuing to chant in the confines of military registration office.

Shortly before it was announced that in Ukraine it is… pic.twitter.com/OhZLZhSTFX

— Zlatti71 (@Zlatti_71) June 1, 2024

ZELENSKY REGIME UNMASKED

The people you see stuffing Ukrainian men into cars and buses and sending them off to die on the battlefield.

Absolutely all Ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 years must update personal data at military registration and enlistment offices starting May 18

On… pic.twitter.com/baamakn44d

— Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil (@ivan_8848) May 4, 2024

Mass brawl breaks out during conscription attempt in Ukraine

Injuries on both sides pic.twitter.com/NB3hZNLWJE

— What the media hides. (@narrative_hole) May 28, 2024

That’s how conscription looks in Ukraine … if you don’t have enough money https://t.co/3gssuQqYbU pic.twitter.com/VhGL6H86Qe

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) July 21, 2023

How Ukraine “recruits” people to fight Russia.

This is like a genocide. There needs to be international laws against forced conscription.

Why the hell should ordinary people die for the wars of oligarchs and international banksters?

pic.twitter.com/b6Bb3oksX1

— S.L. Kanthan (@Kanthan2030) December 17, 2023

The Ukrainian mobsters from the recruitment press gang tried to mobilize a Ukrainian amputee, but when he invited them to go to Avdeevka, they "respectfully" refused, of course. pic.twitter.com/djfnIPm65b

— Olga Bazova (@OlgaBazova) May 28, 2024

And this:

.
The daughter of the head of Ukraine's Chernigov region conscription office, Alexandra Sapon, shows off her luxury lifestyle in Los Angeles, Miami and Hawaii. pic.twitter.com/YRJPRZscWi

— ⏳Towhee 🌏☮️ (@amborin) September 5, 2023

It's odd how they seem to give the 18-25 year olds a pass.

Apparently the Ukraine planned peace summit in Switzerland WON'T include Russia. June 15-16. Unserious.

Hence, China is boycotting it.

Ukraine's 10-point plan includes Russia withdrawing from all Ukrainian lands *eye roll* and a tribunal to prosecute Russian war crimes.

Russia open to real peace talks.

Caught a new Mearsheimer video on YouTube where he is talking to a Norwegian program? Some new nuggets.

- Merkel and Sarkozy were against Ukraine joining NATO in 2008. They said it would be a disaster.
- Mearsheimer explains how the US defends Europe, but it really causes problems. Europe is beholden to us (we pay for a lot of their defense), so they feel they have to go along w what we want. Essentially, they're vassal states. (Europe can't go it alone bc of concerns about Germany, etc.) So the EU gives us limited pushback - like the disaster of Ukraine.

🇺🇸🇺🇦🇷🇺‼️🚨 US PROPAGANDA: Throwing untrained people off the streets straight to the front:

“Training new personell at the frontline”

Cynical heartless monsters … pic.twitter.com/DUt0SXZwRY

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) June 3, 2024

154 Days Til No Joe said:

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Biden’s Secrecy on Allowing Ukraine to Strike Russia Is Dangeroushttps://t.co/WaQNRmb5Cz

— Ken Klippenstein (@kenklippenstein) June 1, 2024

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Who voted for this?

I'm not even a little bit worried that Russia is going to attack the United States because Ukraine is striking targets just across the border.

sycasey said:

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Zippergate said:

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sycasey said:

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I'm not even a little bit worried that Russia is going to attack the United States because Ukraine is striking targets just across the border.

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Perhaps not a direct attack, but a terror attack on infrastructure would hardly be surprising. But obviously we're talking about Europe here, the NATO countries we have guaranteed to protect.

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I'm not worried that Russia is actually going to attack a NATO member either. They already have their hands full invading Ukraine.

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The problem is, potentially, that incremental escalations can add up to something excremental.

Big C said:

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sycasey said:

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Zippergate said:

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sycasey said:

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I'm not even a little bit worried that Russia is going to attack the United States because Ukraine is striking targets just across the border.

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Perhaps not a direct attack, but a terror attack on infrastructure would hardly be surprising. But obviously we're talking about Europe here, the NATO countries we have guaranteed to protect.

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I'm not worried that Russia is actually going to attack a NATO member either. They already have their hands full invading Ukraine.

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The problem is, potentially, that incremental escalations can add up to something excremental.

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Yup, that's why you don't start a war if you can help it. Unfortunately, Putin already took us past that threshold.

We've been antagonizing him since at least 2008, and despite our vast investments in Ukraine, Russia has decimated the Ukrainian and NATO (USA) efforts.

Big C said:

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sycasey said:

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Big C said:

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sycasey said:

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Zippergate said:

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sycasey said:

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I'm not even a little bit worried that Russia is going to attack the United States because Ukraine is striking targets just across the border.

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Perhaps not a direct attack, but a terror attack on infrastructure would hardly be surprising. But obviously we're talking about Europe here, the NATO countries we have guaranteed to protect.

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I'm not worried that Russia is actually going to attack a NATO member either. They already have their hands full invading Ukraine.

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The problem is, potentially, that incremental escalations can add up to something excremental.

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Yup, that's why you don't start a war if you can help it. Unfortunately, Putin already took us past that threshold.

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So where do we draw the line? Would you start to get worried if we began to send our A-list weapons to Ukraine, sans restrictions? How about if we provided a little air support (but only over Ukraine air space!)?

Would you be worried if the US Army just marched into Rooskieland and started kicking ass? After all, as a wise man once said (okay, maybe twice), Putin could've prevented all this by not attacking Ukraine, so it doesn't matter what happens now!

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I'm not in favor of American troops going to war, no. In general, I'm not that worried about what Ukraine does with the stuff we send them. They are largely engaging in a defensive struggle, which I support.

I couldn't give you a hard-and-fast line, because war is foggy. Using A-list weapons to actually strike Moscow would be a bridge too far, to give an extreme example.

sycasey said:

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Big C said:

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sycasey said:

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Zippergate said:

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sycasey said:

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I'm not even a little bit worried that Russia is going to attack the United States because Ukraine is striking targets just across the border.

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Perhaps not a direct attack, but a terror attack on infrastructure would hardly be surprising. But obviously we're talking about Europe here, the NATO countries we have guaranteed to protect.

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I'm not worried that Russia is actually going to attack a NATO member either. They already have their hands full invading Ukraine.

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The problem is, potentially, that incremental escalations can add up to something excremental.

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Yup, that's why you don't start a war if you can help it. Unfortunately, Putin already took us past that threshold.

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What Zipper are Yogi are alluding to here is that there are some very serious tresholds ahead, including nuclear armageddon...

What's the course of action you propose, to the last Ukrainian, and escalating, because the Russians are winning? What's the best course of action for the Ukrainian people??

Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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Big C said:

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sycasey said:

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Zippergate said:

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sycasey said:

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I'm not even a little bit worried that Russia is going to attack the United States because Ukraine is striking targets just across the border.

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Perhaps not a direct attack, but a terror attack on infrastructure would hardly be surprising. But obviously we're talking about Europe here, the NATO countries we have guaranteed to protect.

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I'm not worried that Russia is actually going to attack a NATO member either. They already have their hands full invading Ukraine.

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The problem is, potentially, that incremental escalations can add up to something excremental.

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Yup, that's why you don't start a war if you can help it. Unfortunately, Putin already took us past that threshold.

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What Zipper are Yogi are alluding to here is that there are some very serious tresholds ahead, including nuclear armageddon...

What's the course of action you propose, to the last Ukrainian, and escalating, because the Russians are winning? What's the best course of action for the Ukrainian people??

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Ukraine has decided they want to keep fighting, so I support them continuing to fight for their sovereignty.

I don't think Putin is dropping a nuke, especially on a NATO country. He knows that would be the end of him. He uses the threat of such to scare people away from opposing him. The problem is that he's threatened this so many times that it's lost its effectiveness.

sycasey said:

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Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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Big C said:

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sycasey said:

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Zippergate said:

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sycasey said:

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I'm not even a little bit worried that Russia is going to attack the United States because Ukraine is striking targets just across the border.

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Perhaps not a direct attack, but a terror attack on infrastructure would hardly be surprising. But obviously we're talking about Europe here, the NATO countries we have guaranteed to protect.

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I'm not worried that Russia is actually going to attack a NATO member either. They already have their hands full invading Ukraine.

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The problem is, potentially, that incremental escalations can add up to something excremental.

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Yup, that's why you don't start a war if you can help it. Unfortunately, Putin already took us past that threshold.

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What Zipper are Yogi are alluding to here is that there are some very serious tresholds ahead, including nuclear armageddon...

What's the course of action you propose, to the last Ukrainian, and escalating, because the Russians are winning? What's the best course of action for the Ukrainian people??

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Ukraine has decided they want to keep fighting, so I support them continuing to fight for their sovereignty.

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The majority of Ukrainian men who are being sent to the front don't want to continue fighting and don't want to join the ranks of their million plus casualties, neither do their families. Most of the Ukrainian men who want to fight and did volunteer have already died or been heavily wounded. I used italics here because Ukraine is now actually force-conscripting men with missing limbs (see my post from yesterday).

Zelensky's government is no longer legitimate, his popularity is now below 20%. He does not represent Ukraine.

Quote:

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I don't think Putin is dropping a nuke, especially on a NATO country. He knows that would be the end of him. He uses the threat of such to scare people away from opposing him. The problem is that he's threatened this so many times that it's lost its effectiveness.

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The nukes would be 2 or 3 rungs up on the escalation ladder. The next step though, Russia striking back at NATO staging grounds outside of Ukraine, is eminently closer now, we're really in uncharted waters here, a hot war between nuclear powers. What makes this situation so much worse and so much more volatile than during the cold war is that the communication lines that were in place back then are not in place today, and many of the leaders today are driven by ideology rather than rational thought.

What are you smoking? A few months into the SMO Ukraine & Russia had a peace document ready to sign. Zelensky ran as being anti war. The Israeli PM was a key facilitator in that negotiation and agreement. This is all well documented, and final negotiations were in Istanbul.

We then sent Boris Johnson to kabosh the peace talks, and told Zelensky we would completely back his military efforts. This is all undisputed.

Around the same time the Ukrainian peace negotiator was allegedly killed, possibly by the Azov Nazi battalion, and Zekensky threatened.

In the coming months several American leaders, including Lloyd Austin, said our goal was to "weaken Russia". [Austin appears as incompetent as Blinken.]

How exactly did they think they would beat a competent leader of a top military and manufacturing power - facing an existential threat on his doorstep - when we can't beat sheepherders or produce basic ammunition?

As Dr. Jordan Peterson asked, what exactly does victory look like over a nuclear power?

sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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What are you smoking?

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I could ask you guys the same question. I am just offering my perspective on this conflict. I don't think anyone expects you to agree.

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Devoid of highly relevant facts.

Seminal December 15, 2021 meeting between Biden and Putin, where Putin delivered a draft security agreement between Russia and the US.

Sachs spoke w Jake Sullivan in the WH, and Sullivan assured him we weren't going to war with Russia.

Eight minute video.

movielover said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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What are you smoking?

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I could ask you guys the same question. I am just offering my perspective on this conflict. I don't think anyone expects you to agree.

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Devoid of highly relevant facts.

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Oh, I've had your "facts" repeated to me over and over and over and over again in this thread, so I'm well aware of them. It doesn't matter how often I counter them, the same claims just keep coming back. So I give up. Believe what you want. USA is the bad guy, Russia just the poor put-upon underdog. Whatever keeps you going, man.