So the prohibition wasn't really worth much. Gotcha.

Payback will be a B. I'm guessing a location with NATO and US special forces on hand. Folks won't be sleeping well.

movielover said:

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So the prohibition wasn't really worth much. Gotcha.

---

I mean, if Russia already violated it then no it wasn't.

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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https://t.me/MFARussia/20863

Cluster munitions were prohibited by the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland, in May 2008. Are we no longer abiding by this prohibition - since we're losing our proxy war w Russia?

And are we purposefully provoking Russia into a direct confrontation?

---

Are we just taking the Russian government's word on everything now?

---

Both Ukraine and Russia have used cluster munitions in the conflict. The USA has supplied such to Ukraine. Are you disputing something here or just cheerleading for the USA?

---

If both nations are using such weapons and are actively at war, then how is it a "terrorist attack," as the Russian government claims in the link above? Sounds to me like it's just war. This is why you don't start a war.

---

Thanks for the clarification. We are in uncharted waters with the United States being in a proxy war with Russia. Since it is war, would Russian retaliation on American citizens be considered an escalation?

---

Yeah, probably. I don't think Ukrainian retaliation (seemingly in equal measure) on the Russians who invaded them is really an escalation. It's just war.

---

Wait, the US striking Russia is not an escalation but Russia striking the US is?

oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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https://t.me/MFARussia/20863

Cluster munitions were prohibited by the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland, in May 2008. Are we no longer abiding by this prohibition - since we're losing our proxy war w Russia?

And are we purposefully provoking Russia into a direct confrontation?

---

Are we just taking the Russian government's word on everything now?

---

Both Ukraine and Russia have used cluster munitions in the conflict. The USA has supplied such to Ukraine. Are you disputing something here or just cheerleading for the USA?

---

If both nations are using such weapons and are actively at war, then how is it a "terrorist attack," as the Russian government claims in the link above? Sounds to me like it's just war. This is why you don't start a war.

---

Thanks for the clarification. We are in uncharted waters with the United States being in a proxy war with Russia. Since it is war, would Russian retaliation on American citizens be considered an escalation?

---

Yeah, probably. I don't think Ukrainian retaliation (seemingly in equal measure) on the Russians who invaded them is really an escalation. It's just war.

---

Wait, the US striking Russia is not an escalation but Russia striking the US is?

---

The US has not struck Russia. Ukraine has.

Never forget this and all it applies to.😱 pic.twitter.com/bzCuUx5eRh

— AmericanBadAss🇺🇸 (@Amer_icanbadass) June 25, 2024

Lessons Learned: The goal was and always will be endless war. We transitioned from withdrawing from Afghanistan to supporting Ukraine so effortlessly.

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

---

https://t.me/MFARussia/20863

Cluster munitions were prohibited by the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland, in May 2008. Are we no longer abiding by this prohibition - since we're losing our proxy war w Russia?

And are we purposefully provoking Russia into a direct confrontation?

---

Are we just taking the Russian government's word on everything now?

---

Both Ukraine and Russia have used cluster munitions in the conflict. The USA has supplied such to Ukraine. Are you disputing something here or just cheerleading for the USA?

---

If both nations are using such weapons and are actively at war, then how is it a "terrorist attack," as the Russian government claims in the link above? Sounds to me like it's just war. This is why you don't start a war.

---

Thanks for the clarification. We are in uncharted waters with the United States being in a proxy war with Russia. Since it is war, would Russian retaliation on American citizens be considered an escalation?

---

Yeah, probably. I don't think Ukrainian retaliation (seemingly in equal measure) on the Russians who invaded them is really an escalation. It's just war.

---

Wait, the US striking Russia is not an escalation but Russia striking the US is?

---

The US has not struck Russia. Ukraine has.

---

That's a good one. Are you going to post it in the correct forum?

https://bearinsider.com/forums/9

oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

---

https://t.me/MFARussia/20863

Cluster munitions were prohibited by the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland, in May 2008. Are we no longer abiding by this prohibition - since we're losing our proxy war w Russia?

And are we purposefully provoking Russia into a direct confrontation?

---

Are we just taking the Russian government's word on everything now?

---

Both Ukraine and Russia have used cluster munitions in the conflict. The USA has supplied such to Ukraine. Are you disputing something here or just cheerleading for the USA?

---

If both nations are using such weapons and are actively at war, then how is it a "terrorist attack," as the Russian government claims in the link above? Sounds to me like it's just war. This is why you don't start a war.

---

Thanks for the clarification. We are in uncharted waters with the United States being in a proxy war with Russia. Since it is war, would Russian retaliation on American citizens be considered an escalation?

---

Yeah, probably. I don't think Ukrainian retaliation (seemingly in equal measure) on the Russians who invaded them is really an escalation. It's just war.

---

Wait, the US striking Russia is not an escalation but Russia striking the US is?

---

The US has not struck Russia. Ukraine has.

---

That's a good one. Are you going to post it in the correct forum?

https://bearinsider.com/forums/9

---

The US (among others) has given weapons to Ukraine to help their defense against Russia, at Ukraine's request. Ukraine is firing them. They struck Russia, not the US.

This isn't hard.

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

---

https://t.me/MFARussia/20863

Cluster munitions were prohibited by the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland, in May 2008. Are we no longer abiding by this prohibition - since we're losing our proxy war w Russia?

And are we purposefully provoking Russia into a direct confrontation?

---

Are we just taking the Russian government's word on everything now?

---

Both Ukraine and Russia have used cluster munitions in the conflict. The USA has supplied such to Ukraine. Are you disputing something here or just cheerleading for the USA?

---

If both nations are using such weapons and are actively at war, then how is it a "terrorist attack," as the Russian government claims in the link above? Sounds to me like it's just war. This is why you don't start a war.

---

Thanks for the clarification. We are in uncharted waters with the United States being in a proxy war with Russia. Since it is war, would Russian retaliation on American citizens be considered an escalation?

---

Yeah, probably. I don't think Ukrainian retaliation (seemingly in equal measure) on the Russians who invaded them is really an escalation. It's just war.

---

Wait, the US striking Russia is not an escalation but Russia striking the US is?

---

The US has not struck Russia. Ukraine has.

---

That's a good one. Are you going to post it in the correct forum?

https://bearinsider.com/forums/9

---

The US (among others) has given weapons to Ukraine to help their defense against Russia, at Ukraine's request. Ukraine is firing them. They struck Russia, not the US.

This isn't hard.

---

US specialists in Ukraine operate ATACMS and assist the Ukrainians in the targeting process and the coordination of attacks with the use of GPS and drones flying in the Black Sea, as well as with US satellite reconnaissance of targets, in addition of course to providing these weapons.

Quote:

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Quote:

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movielover said:
So the prohibition wasn't really worth much. Gotcha.

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Sycasey said:
I mean, if Russia already violated it then no it wasn't.

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Russia refrained from using cluster munitions, until Ukraine did.

Cal88 said:

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Russia refrained from using cluster munitions, until Ukraine did.

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Pretty sure that's not true.

sycasey said:

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Cal88 said:

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Russia refrained from using cluster munitions, until Ukraine did.

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Pretty sure that's not true.

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Ukraine has been using cluster shells to indiscriminately bomb rebel-held cities like Luhansk and Donetsk since 2014. Most notably, they have used butterfly mines over downtown Donetsk, which they have only recently stopped bombing after having been dislodged from Avdiivka.

https://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/138906

Kiev Independent: Zelensky dismisses Lieutenant General accused by soldiers of heavy losses

So glad Zelensky found a scapegoat; surely the problem couldn't be that NATO (US) and Z sent him an impossible task.

https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-replaces-lieutenant-general-accused-of-heavy-losses-among-ukrainian-forces-personnel/

Putin's strategy - short.

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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https://t.me/MFARussia/20863

Cluster munitions were prohibited by the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland, in May 2008. Are we no longer abiding by this prohibition - since we're losing our proxy war w Russia?

And are we purposefully provoking Russia into a direct confrontation?

---

Are we just taking the Russian government's word on everything now?

---

Both Ukraine and Russia have used cluster munitions in the conflict. The USA has supplied such to Ukraine. Are you disputing something here or just cheerleading for the USA?

---

If both nations are using such weapons and are actively at war, then how is it a "terrorist attack," as the Russian government claims in the link above? Sounds to me like it's just war. This is why you don't start a war.

---

Thanks for the clarification. We are in uncharted waters with the United States being in a proxy war with Russia. Since it is war, would Russian retaliation on American citizens be considered an escalation?

---

Yeah, probably. I don't think Ukrainian retaliation (seemingly in equal measure) on the Russians who invaded them is really an escalation. It's just war.

---

Wait, the US striking Russia is not an escalation but Russia striking the US is?

---

The US has not struck Russia. Ukraine has.

---

So I guess if Russia launched an attack from Cuba, you would blame it on the Cubans.

https://open.substack.com/pub/meaninginhistory/p/how-much-stuff-can-hit-the-fan-before?r=aiop6&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

stated by Russian foreign minister Lavrov yesterdayand Lavrov promised a Russian response:

Quote:

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The ATACMS cluster warhead missiles that made a massacre in Crimea yesterday, are not controlled by Ukraine
The only thing Ukrainian about them is that they are launched from Ukrainian territory.
The experts working with the systems are NATO experts. These are those "instructors" and "experts" that NATO and its members openly declared and announced that they are sending to Ukraine en masse.
The navigation systems and drones that guide the missiles belong to the United States and they do so constantly over the Black Sea. And yesterday before and during the strike, these drones were flying near Crimea.
NATO is now directly striking Russia, including civilian targets.

---

Zippergate said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

---

https://t.me/MFARussia/20863

Cluster munitions were prohibited by the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland, in May 2008. Are we no longer abiding by this prohibition - since we're losing our proxy war w Russia?

And are we purposefully provoking Russia into a direct confrontation?

---

Are we just taking the Russian government's word on everything now?

---

Both Ukraine and Russia have used cluster munitions in the conflict. The USA has supplied such to Ukraine. Are you disputing something here or just cheerleading for the USA?

---

If both nations are using such weapons and are actively at war, then how is it a "terrorist attack," as the Russian government claims in the link above? Sounds to me like it's just war. This is why you don't start a war.

---

Thanks for the clarification. We are in uncharted waters with the United States being in a proxy war with Russia. Since it is war, would Russian retaliation on American citizens be considered an escalation?

---

Yeah, probably. I don't think Ukrainian retaliation (seemingly in equal measure) on the Russians who invaded them is really an escalation. It's just war.

---

Wait, the US striking Russia is not an escalation but Russia striking the US is?

---

The US has not struck Russia. Ukraine has.

---

So I guess if Russia launched an attack from Cuba, you would blame it on the Cubans.

---

Depends on the situation. Also, if the US was in the middle of an invasion of Cuba at the time that would probably affect my view of it.

sycasey said:

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Zippergate said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

---

https://t.me/MFARussia/20863

Cluster munitions were prohibited by the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland, in May 2008. Are we no longer abiding by this prohibition - since we're losing our proxy war w Russia?

And are we purposefully provoking Russia into a direct confrontation?

---

Are we just taking the Russian government's word on everything now?

---

Both Ukraine and Russia have used cluster munitions in the conflict. The USA has supplied such to Ukraine. Are you disputing something here or just cheerleading for the USA?

---

If both nations are using such weapons and are actively at war, then how is it a "terrorist attack," as the Russian government claims in the link above? Sounds to me like it's just war. This is why you don't start a war.

---

Thanks for the clarification. We are in uncharted waters with the United States being in a proxy war with Russia. Since it is war, would Russian retaliation on American citizens be considered an escalation?

---

Yeah, probably. I don't think Ukrainian retaliation (seemingly in equal measure) on the Russians who invaded them is really an escalation. It's just war.

---

Wait, the US striking Russia is not an escalation but Russia striking the US is?

---

The US has not struck Russia. Ukraine has.

---

So I guess if Russia launched an attack from Cuba, you would blame it on the Cubans.

---

Depends on the situation. Also, if the US was in the middle of an invasion of Cuba at the time that would probably affect my view of it.

---

If we were invading Cuba and a Russian nuke launched from Cuba guided by Russian intelligence obliterated Norfolk, you would merely think Cuba was striking the US?

oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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Zippergate said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

---

https://t.me/MFARussia/20863

Cluster munitions were prohibited by the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland, in May 2008. Are we no longer abiding by this prohibition - since we're losing our proxy war w Russia?

And are we purposefully provoking Russia into a direct confrontation?

---

Are we just taking the Russian government's word on everything now?

---

Both Ukraine and Russia have used cluster munitions in the conflict. The USA has supplied such to Ukraine. Are you disputing something here or just cheerleading for the USA?

---

If both nations are using such weapons and are actively at war, then how is it a "terrorist attack," as the Russian government claims in the link above? Sounds to me like it's just war. This is why you don't start a war.

---

Thanks for the clarification. We are in uncharted waters with the United States being in a proxy war with Russia. Since it is war, would Russian retaliation on American citizens be considered an escalation?

---

Yeah, probably. I don't think Ukrainian retaliation (seemingly in equal measure) on the Russians who invaded them is really an escalation. It's just war.

---

Wait, the US striking Russia is not an escalation but Russia striking the US is?

---

The US has not struck Russia. Ukraine has.

---

So I guess if Russia launched an attack from Cuba, you would blame it on the Cubans.

---

Depends on the situation. Also, if the US was in the middle of an invasion of Cuba at the time that would probably affect my view of it.

---

If we were invading Cuba and a Russian nuke launched from Cuba guided by Russian intelligence obliterated Norfolk, you would merely think Cuba was striking the US?

---

I'm not going to keep playing this game of answering to every extreme hypothetical scenario.

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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Zippergate said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

---

https://t.me/MFARussia/20863

Cluster munitions were prohibited by the Convention on Cluster Munitions, adopted in Dublin, Ireland, in May 2008. Are we no longer abiding by this prohibition - since we're losing our proxy war w Russia?

And are we purposefully provoking Russia into a direct confrontation?

---

Are we just taking the Russian government's word on everything now?

---

Both Ukraine and Russia have used cluster munitions in the conflict. The USA has supplied such to Ukraine. Are you disputing something here or just cheerleading for the USA?

---

If both nations are using such weapons and are actively at war, then how is it a "terrorist attack," as the Russian government claims in the link above? Sounds to me like it's just war. This is why you don't start a war.

---

Thanks for the clarification. We are in uncharted waters with the United States being in a proxy war with Russia. Since it is war, would Russian retaliation on American citizens be considered an escalation?

---

Yeah, probably. I don't think Ukrainian retaliation (seemingly in equal measure) on the Russians who invaded them is really an escalation. It's just war.

---

Wait, the US striking Russia is not an escalation but Russia striking the US is?

---

The US has not struck Russia. Ukraine has.

---

So I guess if Russia launched an attack from Cuba, you would blame it on the Cubans.

---

Depends on the situation. Also, if the US was in the middle of an invasion of Cuba at the time that would probably affect my view of it.

---

If we were invading Cuba and a Russian nuke launched from Cuba guided by Russian intelligence obliterated Norfolk, you would merely think Cuba was striking the US?

---

I'm not going to keep playing this game of answering to every extreme hypothetical scenario.

---

It is completely analogous to what is happening in Russia.


Your quote:
"The US (among others) has given weapons to Ukraine to help their defense against Russia, at Ukraine's request. Ukraine is firing them. They struck Russia, not the US."

It sounds like you don't want to apply your standard consistently because it would unfortunately go against your argument.

It may have been an extreme hypothetical risk a year ago or maybe even last week. Now, it's just one of many possible scenarios involving loss of American lives and serious escalation towards all-out war. Who is in charge? Do the people pulling the strings have a plan here?

No. But President Trump has a plan.

Look at what a HORRIBLE job Blinken & Sullivan continue to do.

- President Trump had peace talks with NK, and peace was allegedly at hand before Bolton and Pompeo ended it.

- And now NK and Russia have a partnership, and Japan, SK and America confront a soon-emboldened NK.

- NK will have military technical assistance, plentiful food, customers, and resources. A fed workforce will be more productive.

UKRAINE: Biden hasn't spoken with Putin for two years. Trump signals he will immediately talk to BOTH Zelensky and Putin and force them to end the war. This is what leadership looks like. pic.twitter.com/eWegdWLW7u

— @amuse (@amuse) June 25, 2024

WSJ: How Putin Rebuilt Russia's War Machine With Help From U.S. Adversaries

Iran, North Korea and China are supplying the people and know-how to tool up Russia's factories and churn out arms for the war in Ukraine

WASHINGTON - "Russia's military cooperation with Iran, North Korea and China has expanded into the sharing of sensitive technologies that could threaten the U.S. and its allies long after the Ukraine war ends, according to U.S. defense and intelligence officials.

"The speed and depth of the expanding security ties involving the U.S. adversaries has at times surprised American intelligence analysts. ..."

https://www.wsj.com/world/how-putin-rebuilt-russias-war-machine-with-help-from-u-s-adversaries-1ea6c2d1

"If wars can be started by lies, they can be stopped by truth." - Julian Assange

You're such a Putin lover. /s

One talking head last night believes Russia will take its time responding, go to the UN, and document the violations which I guess include using cluster munitions on families and children. The attacks were purposefully launched on a Russian Orthodox holiday weekend when families would be present. The estimate was 2 weeks or less for a response.

This analyst believes given the plan, the US wants to provoke an overreaction by Russia.

Scott Ritter says if you provide a gun, load the gun, point the gun, and have someone else pull the trigger, you're also guilty.

Putin Is Banking On a Trump Win for His New World Order | Vanity Fair


https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/putin-trump-yalta


"….Putin once called the extinction of the Eastern bloc "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century." Throughout his presidency, Putin has repeatedly said that the world needs a "new Yalta." If the old world order no longer works, a new one must be invented.

….But for a new Yalta, Putin needs suitable partners, including a US president who would agree to divide the world with him.

Since Soviet times, there has been a stereotype in the Kremlin: It is easier to negotiate with Republicans than with Democrats. This stems from the dtente between the USSR and the US during the Nixon and Ford administrations; Jimmy Carter, the thinking goes, paid too much attention to human rights. Kremlin officials still believe that Republicans are constructive partners, while Democrats are hypocrites posing as saints.

….From the moment Trump was elected, the word Yalta became one of the most popular among Kremlin officials. They were confident that Trump was the right person to agree to such a spectacle. This did not mean that Russian authorities considered Trump "their puppet"the Kremlin never had any means to influence him. Putin simply believed that Trump was morally close and understandable to him: a fellow cynic who also thought that money solved everything.

However, the scandal over Russian interference in American elections ruined all these plans. No rapprochement occurred.

But now the Kremlin believes that if Trump wins in November, everything will be different. It hopes he will no longer pay attention to the liberal media or the criticism of the Democrats. Moreover, the Kremlin is convinced that Trump is ready (at least rhetorically) to dismantle the old world order and claim credit for creating a new one.

While fantasizing about the future of the US under Trump, the Kremlin harbors another dream. It sees it as the ultimate revenge for the Cold War defeat and the collapse of the USSR. Putin's current advisers are confident that the US will eventually disintegrate, breaking into several pieces like the Soviet Union ultimately did. This would require the right conditions and a leader who could plunge the country into chaos. You might be surprised, but the nickname used for Trump in the Kremlin is the American Gorbachev."

VF. Putin recently said ge prefers working with Biden.

🇺🇦🇺🇸 Soon US PMCs in Ukraine?

The White House is working to lift the de facto ban on the deployment of American military contractors in Ukraine, CNN writes, citing officials.

Biden administration wants to make such a decision to help the Ukrainian Armed Forces maintain and… pic.twitter.com/GHPnDCUaqb

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) June 25, 2024

Russia - China - India - Iran to develop new Artic Silk Road trade corridor.

Zero Hedge: "We Need Icebreakers"... And More Strategic Partnerships

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-need-icebreakers-and-more-strategic-partnerships

"The agreement completely shocked Exceptionalistan because it is a swift counterpunch not only against NATO's global designs but against the Hegemon itself, which for decades has enforced a comprehensive military-political alliance with both Japan and South Korea.

"Translation: from now on there is no more military-political Hegemony in Northeast Asia and in Asia-Pacific as a whole. Beijing will be delighted. Talk about a strategic game-changer. Accomplished without a single bullet being fired."

Reverse psychology for the hillbillies that still don't like Russia. If guys like you and several others who post here actually believed Putin preferred Biden, you would be Biden's biggest supporters.

I'm pretty sure Putin prefers the guy whose only interest in Russia is to build a project in Moscow, not the guy providing the cluster bombs dropping on fat, pasty, drunk Russians sunning on the beach in Crimea.

The war machine escalates.

CNN: Biden administration moves toward allowing American military contractors to deploy to Ukraine

131 Days Til No Joe said:

---

“Nyet Means Nyet”

Without Julian Assange, we never would have known that the current CIA director acknowledged in 2008 how dangerous admitting Ukraine and Georgia into NATO would be.

The 2008 “Nyet Means Nyet” memo was written by current CIA Director William Burns when he was… pic.twitter.com/mQM17hhcTJ

— Liam McCollum (@MLiamMcCollum) June 25, 2024

---

I must have posted this memo at least half a dozen times on this thread, yet many people still cannot grasp its basic premise...

Cal88 said:

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131 Days Til No Joe said:

---

“Nyet Means Nyet”

Without Julian Assange, we never would have known that the current CIA director acknowledged in 2008 how dangerous admitting Ukraine and Georgia into NATO would be.

The 2008 “Nyet Means Nyet” memo was written by current CIA Director William Burns when he was… pic.twitter.com/mQM17hhcTJ

— Liam McCollum (@MLiamMcCollum) June 25, 2024

---

I must have posted this memo at least half a dozen times on this thread, yet many people still cannot grasp its basic premise...

---

Breaking news: Bear Insider liberal circle jerk accuses CIA Director William Burns of being an enemy of the United States and demands CIA Director William Burns go on BI and say something bad about Putin to prove his allegiance to the United States and Biden. Until then, he will be referred here as the traitorous Vladiburns.

Where are the statesmen?

WAR: Reuters is reporting that Russia is considering 'downgrading' its relationship with the West. How could it get any worse without starting a shooting war? pic.twitter.com/7mQ76HyXJo

— @amuse (@amuse) June 27, 2024