The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

915,168 Views | 10111 Replies | Last: 29 min ago by DiabloWags
bearister
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I hate this guy so much that I usually stop after two sentences….BUT I forced myself to read the whole column and I found it very interesting.
WHAT SAY YOU, BOTH SIDES OF THE BI POLITICAL SPECTRUM?

How Trump Can End the War in Ukraine for Good | American Enterprise Institute - AEI


https://www.aei.org/op-eds/how-trump-can-end-the-war-in-ukraine-for-good/
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Cal88
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bearister said:

I hate this guy so much that I usually stop after two sentences….BUT I forced myself to read the whole column and I found it very interesting.
WHAT SAY YOU, BOTH SIDES OF THE BI POLITICAL SPECTRUM?

How Trump Can End the War in Ukraine for Good | American Enterprise Institute - AEI


https://www.aei.org/op-eds/how-trump-can-end-the-war-in-ukraine-for-good/

Here is a non-paywall version of the same article:

https://www.dailyunion.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-how-trump-can-end-the-war-in-ukraine-for-good/article_31447490-b1bf-11ef-ab76-bf5605584bb6.html

The guy is a neocon, AEI has been neocon central from day one, with people like Perle, Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney and his wife, Bolton, Ledeen - that was their main think tank hangout.

Two decades after the Dubya/Cheney neocon forever war kicked off, the neocons have now managed to get the neolib centrists fully on board in their excellent if not dangerous and deadly (mostly to Ukrainians) adventure in eastern Europe.

Excerpts from the editorial:
Quote:

What lessons can we learn from the failure of the Budapest accord?

First, Putin does not want peace; he wants Ukraine. He will violate any international agreement Russia signs to achieve his objective. The only way to stop him is to make his objective impossible to achieve. As we have seen, Putin believes he can wait out a strong U.S. president until another weak one replaces him. If allowed to do so, he simply will use a cessation of hostilities to pause, reconstitute his forces and resume his invasion when the time is right. If Trump wants a peace that outlasts his presidency, that agreement must create conditions that make a resumption of war impossible.

This is projection. Putin/Russia wants peace on its own terms, whle the neocons want to bleed Russia with the ultimate goal being regime change and the dismemberment of Russia.

Originally the Russian demand was Ukraine neutrality/disarmement (no NATO) and access to their naval base in Crimea. Today it is Ukrainian neutrality plus the current 4 oblasts they hold as the minimum condition. This leaves Ukraine with 80% of its former territory, with the most Russian parts ceded to Russia.


Quote:

Second, Western security guarantees are worthless unless they are backed up with Western military might. A lasting peace will require that whatever agreement Trump negotiates creates defensible borders, with a demilitarized zone enforced by an international peacekeeping force (made up of European, not U.S., troops). Putin must understand that this agreement is final, and that if he ever tries to resume his invasion, he will not be fighting just Ukraine.

The West did not abide by the Minsk Agreements, and all three of the main parties involved, Merkel, Hollande and Poroshenko admitted that they had no intention to do so, they just wanted to win time to build up the Ukrainian military, which they did.

That's why it is not likely that the Russians will accept a Minsk Plus-type of agreement this time around, they will demand Ukraine to be demilitarized and out of NATO.


Quote:

Third, Ukraine must be militarily strong enough to deter Russia. Giving up its nuclear deterrent, and depending on others to protect it, was a mistake. Ukraine will need to create a conventional deterrent so powerful that Russia will never take it on. This means that, even if Trump succeeds in forging peace, the imperative to arm Ukraine will continue. We must find mechanisms to increase the flow of U.S. weapons headed to Kyiv that do not require U.S. taxpayers to bear the cost.

This is the absurd and insidious element here. Ukraine can never build a "conventional deterrent so powerful that Russia will never take it on", it is precisely the fact that the nationalist anti-Russian Ukrainians that have been put in power through the NATO-sponsored coup in 2014 have been building up a very strong military that prompted this war in the first place. Russia is going to keep fighting until they destroy that military force, or until there is regime change in Kiev, whichever comes first.

Russia has escalatory dominance in this conflict, for two reasons:

1- They have a lot more at stake in this conflict than the US or the main NATO nations of western Europe, it is happening not even in their backyard, but on their front porch.

2- Russia cannot be beat at home, this is a road game for NATO. They have a more productive MIC and better/more stand-of weaponry. Something guys like the AEI dude above cannot conceive out of pure hubris and jingoism - Russia is Nigeria with snow/a gas station with nukes etc.


Quote:

If Trump wants to avoid presiding over a historic failure like Budapest, he needs to avoid the trap of trying to appease Putin with promises of Ukrainian neutrality and disarmament. He does not want to join Neville Chamberlain in the pantheon of leaders who promised peace in our time but delivered the opposite. Trump says he wants to prevent World War III. If that is the case, he should do what he did in his first term and secure peace through strength.

The war in Ukraine has been transcribed as a Hollywood storyboard with supervillain Darth Putin fighting upstart rebel Luke Zelensky, and the year is always 1939.
Zippergate
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"We're getting the band back together."
Ukraine 2.0
Gonna be lit.



movielover
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Cal88
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movielover said:



Who was behind that clause, Blackrock, MIC, Graham, Nuland, all of the above??

Horrible poison pill against peace in Ukraine, they really want them to fight to the last Ukrainian.
philly1121
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Hey this is a little off topic but, now that Assad is gone, is Tulsi still going to be the useful idiot for Trump? Her stock dropped a little. Might be a little worried at what they find in Assad's palaces.
Cal88
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I would look into the jihadi palaces as well.

philly1121
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88 do you think Tulsi will give Assad safe harbor at her place?

Bad for Assad. If he could have held out until she was confirmed, his life would have been alot simpler. But, he's safe in Moscow. lol
Cal88
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philly1121 said:

88 do you think Tulsi will give Assad safe harbor at her place?

Bad for Assad. If he could have held out until she was confirmed, his life would have been alot simpler. But, he's safe in Moscow. lol

There's plenty of room in Zelensky's Miami mansion. Besides, since it's been paid with our tax money, he's kind of obliged.
philly1121
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Nah, she bought a house in Leander, Texas. Perfect state for her and her best friend Bashar.
Big C
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philly1121 said:

88 do you think Tulsi will give Assad safe harbor at her place?

Bad for Assad. If he could have held out until she was confirmed, his life would have been alot simpler. But, he's safe in Moscow. lol

I'm a little light on the current lingo: Is that what they call it nowadays?
philly1121
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Asylum is the correct word I suppose.
bearister
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philly1121 said:

Asylum is the correct word I suppose.




….but I digress.
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bear2034
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philly1121 said:

88 do you think Tulsi will give Assad safe harbor at her place?

Bad for Assad. If he could have held out until she was confirmed, his life would have been alot simpler. But, he's safe in Moscow. lol

I'm sure Nancy Pelosi or John Kerry would offer Assad a room at their homes.
philly1121
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Eh, this is a bit of a reach 34. Kerry visited as Senate Chair of the Foreign Relations Committee in 2010. He went there at the behest of the Obama Adminisration to present our dissatisfaction and opposition to Syrian policices, specifically, their transfer of weapons to Hezbollah. Kerry went a total of 5 times to Damascus.

Tulsi, on the other hand, went there secretly in 2017 as a mere US Congresswoman. She went there during the Syrian uprising, the only US Congressman to do so and went there to legitimize Assad while he was gassing his people in Idlib.

There is zero comparison between the two. And, Kerry has been out of any meaningful office since 2013. Tulsi has been nominated for DNI. The scrutiny should rightfully be on her.
sycasey
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philly1121 said:

Eh, this is a bit of a reach 34. Kerry visited as Senate Chair of the Foreign Relations Committee in 2010. He went there at the behest of the Obama Adminisration to present our dissatisfaction and opposition to Syrian policices, specifically, their transfer of weapons to Hezbollah. Kerry went a total of 5 times to Damascus.

Tulsi, on the other hand, went there secretly in 2017 as a mere US Congresswoman. She went there during the Syrian uprising, the only US Congressman to do so and went there to legitimize Assad while he was gassing his people in Idlib.

There is zero comparison between the two. And, Kerry has been out of any meaningful office since 2013. Tulsi has been nominated for DNI. The scrutiny should rightfully be on her.
Yes, as usual the false equivalence ignores all the reasons why one person's action was much less appropriate.
movielover
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Assad was paying his military $10 a month? Even $100 a month ridiculous, asking to be overthrown.
movielover
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How much did Lurch get in kickbacks?
Cal88
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movielover said:

Assad was paying his military $10 a month? Even $100 a month ridiculous, asking to be overthrown.

Before the war, Syria's economy was thriving. Their economy and currency crashed several years ago as a combination of us "taking the oil" and wheat from the resource-rich northeastern third and from the sanctions which banned foreign trade and investment.

The Syrian army (SAA) soldiers were paid something like $10/month while the jihadi mercenaries from China (Uyghurs), Tajikistan etc fighting them based in Idlib have been paid $2k/month and were fully equipped by NATO and the Gulf states.
bearister
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This thread that I started is up to 902,2367 Views. My guess is Shocky started a thread with hot yoga chick photos that has 1M+.
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movielover
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It's so confusing... will it be divided up into pieces? Israel driving a bombing campaign... will they take Damascus and surrounding areas? Will non Muslims be slaughtered, in mass? How deep was the CIA involved? Supposedly Russia offered Assad help a few years ago, and he said no thanks.
Cal88
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Very good early signs of Trump starting a real peace process in Ukraine, with Orban as a go-between.

We may well have an Istanbul Plus-type of settlement in 2025 if Trump doesn't yield to the DC/London warmonger blob.
philly1121
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Isn't that like 6 foxes and one chicken trying to figure out what to have for dinner? Orban as go between. LMAO
philly1121
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Hey, just want to put this here for those scoring at home. As if things were not settled, they are now. So BearGoggles can go cry in his beer.

https://newrepublic.com/post/189316/surprise-key-witness-reveals-lied-biden-corruption

But Trump will pardon him. With this convo now over, and no evidence of Biden wrongdoing as it was all made up - as I said all along - we can now focus on Trump's next whopper: he's actually not going to lower prices. Awww....egg lovers all over the US are crying. wah lol
Cal88
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philly1121 said:

Hey, just want to put this here for those scoring at home. As if things were not settled, they are now. So BearGoggles can go cry in his beer.

https://newrepublic.com/post/189316/surprise-key-witness-reveals-lied-biden-corruption

But Trump will pardon him. With this convo now over, and no evidence of Biden wrongdoing as it was all made up - as I said all along - we can now focus on Trump's next whopper: he's actually not going to lower prices. Awww....egg lovers all over the US are crying. wah lol

I stopped reading after the first few words "The ex-FBI informant ..."


Quote:

Isn't that like 6 foxes and one chicken trying to figure out what to have for dinner? Orban as go between. LMAO

Orban reflects a growing exasperation in many parts of Europe (esp. in Romania, Hungary, Slovakia etc) at this stupid war to the Last Ukrainian.
Cal88
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Zippergate
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Open the books. Expose the houses and secret bank accounts. Document the graft and this war comes to an end very quickly.
philly1121
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Zelensky's tweet owned Orban. orban was probably already talking with Assad with Tulsi acting as intermediary.

And of course you didn't read the article. Hey, here's a hint 88, if you want to prove the Ukraine bs was real, maybe not rely on a guy like Smirnov, an FBI informant, to carry the load. It was bs all along and now you're crying about it.

And the growing "exasperation" of the war in Ukraine is in your head. Orban is a Russian apologist. Fico in Slovakia is putting blame on the war to the wrong country. And Romania? Calin Georgescu? The guy that says Romania's salvation is Russian wisdom? Yeah, exasperation. lol
Cal88
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philly1121 said:

Zelensky's tweet owned Orban. orban was probably already talking with Assad with Tulsi acting as intermediary.

And of course you didn't read the article. Hey, here's a hint 88, if you want to prove the Ukraine bs was real, maybe not rely on a guy like Smirnov, an FBI informant, to carry the load. It was bs all along and now you're crying about it.

And the growing "exasperation" of the war in Ukraine is in your head. Orban is a Russian apologist. Fico in Slovakia is putting blame on the war to the wrong country. And Romania? Calin Georgescu? The guy that says Romania's salvation is Russian wisdom? Yeah, exasperation. lol

Yeah, I guess that guy Smirnov (and 51 intell experts will second that!) will also deny that Hunter Biden was on the Board of Burisma, earning $11M worth of business with that grift where his only qualification was being the son of the politician who had been a de facto viceroy of Ukraine since the Obama presidency.


It's not up to you, or the EU, or the State Dept or some Soros/USAID-backed NGO to decide what the Romanian or Slovak people want. This however is what precisely went down in Romania, where the government arbitrarily cancelled the result of the election which they lost and is censoring the opposition that doesn't want to turn their country into the next NATO battering ram/Ukraine.



philly1121
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Onto your next MAGA conspiracy theory, eh?

All I can say to you is: no wrongdoing, no wrongdoing, no wrongdoing. You'll just have to cope with it with your warped outlook. You lost this one. Those are facts. Just deal with it.

Onto Romania! And yet another, it was the CIA, US that canceled the election! Eh, not so fast. Romania is a perfect case of - which way should our country go. You do realize that in December 2023, INSCOP did a poll of comparative beliefs of political systems from 2013 to 2023. In the opinion of 48.1% of Romanians, the communist regime was a good thing for Romania (compared to 45.5% in November 2013), while 42.2% are of the opposite opinion (compared to 44.7% in November 2013). 9.7% of those surveyed do not know or do not answer this question (compared to 9.8% in November 2013). You have half the population wanting to go back to communism because the disparities in income/wealth were less with comunism than they are now. Tells you where Romania is when it comes to elections.

So, in this most recent election we get Calin Georgescu. A guy that doesn't believe a man landed on the moon and that the pandemic never happened, thinks sodas contain nanobots and thinks women should wear dresses to "allow energy to flow in". This man comes out of nowhere and gets 23% of the vote in the first round of voting. No one gave this guy any chance in any of the polls, he had no campaign and no advertising on TV or social media, except one: TikTok. From the New Federalist:

His online campaign was targeted and fine-tuned, using all the tools from bots, mass spamming, fake accounts which kept regenerating every day, as well as micro influencers, all targeting the fragile Romanian voter: disillusioned, disappointed, defeated, sick of the system, unsure who to vote for and offered them a golden ticket solution. Sound familiar? Disillusioned, disappointed, defeated. Victims. Sounds like MAGA to me.

So, the Romanian government investigates as to how someone who recently officially declared ZERO campaign expenses, could come out of nowhere and win the first round of voting. The Supreme Council of National Defense (CSAT) investigated the Georgescu campaign. 10 Days after the first election round, the CSAT investigation gets declassified which revealed that Russia intervened in support of Georgescu, while TikTok did not block the illegal campaign content as requested by the Romanian authorities. Since the investigation results were released, Romanian authorities have found Georgescu supporters with weapons and cash. Additionally, a man named Bogdan Peschir is under investigation. Romanian authorities say this man financed the TikTok campaign with at least $1 million and seized $7 million in crypto currency.

From the start of the investigation, the TikTok'ers, influencers and organized crime figures that promoted Georgescu have fled the country. Ultimately, the investigation revealed that TikTok influencers played a central role in a covert, multi-million-euro effort to amplify Georgescu's messaging. Authorities believe the campaign is connected to Russian "hybrid attacks" that targeted Romania's electoral process during the election. Intelligence officials in the EU are saying that this campaign resembles the campaign that occurred in Moldova.

The Romanian Constitutional Court was correct in anulling the first round of voting. They get to vote again in 4-5 months.
Cal88
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philly1121 said:

Onto your next MAGA conspiracy theory, eh?

All I can say to you is: no wrongdoing, no wrongdoing, no wrongdoing. You'll just have to cope with it with your warped outlook. You lost this one. Those are facts. Just deal with it.

Onto Romania! And yet another, it was the CIA, US that canceled the election! Eh, not so fast. Romania is a perfect case of - which way should our country go. You do realize that in December 2023, INSCOP did a poll of comparative beliefs of political systems from 2013 to 2023. In the opinion of 48.1% of Romanians, the communist regime was a good thing for Romania (compared to 45.5% in November 2013), while 42.2% are of the opposite opinion (compared to 44.7% in November 2013). 9.7% of those surveyed do not know or do not answer this question (compared to 9.8% in November 2013). You have half the population wanting to go back to communism because the disparities in income/wealth were less with comunism than they are now. Tells you where Romania is when it comes to elections.

Dude from Philly/Arizona or wherever just knows who/what Romanians should vote for.

When they vote wrong, they should have a do-over, as established by the USAID/NED/EU/Soros-appointed local judges, because these people don't know any better, they were obviously brainwashed by some TikTok influencers.
Cal88
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This has been going on for nearly 2 years now.




They are starting to focus more on the younger kids now for their cannon fodder



Those kinds of practices are not sustainable.
movielover
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They need to acquire arms and fight back, better odds than going to the front lines. McGregor says many are also deserting.
BearGoggles
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philly1121 said:

Hey, just want to put this here for those scoring at home. As if things were not settled, they are now. So BearGoggles can go cry in his beer.

https://newrepublic.com/post/189316/surprise-key-witness-reveals-lied-biden-corruption

But Trump will pardon him. With this convo now over, and no evidence of Biden wrongdoing as it was all made up - as I said all along - we can now focus on Trump's next whopper: he's actually not going to lower prices. Awww....egg lovers all over the US are crying. wah lol
You lack any ability to reason. The fact that one person made a false claim does not mean that all claims - made by other people and supported by independent evidence - are false.

We have a laptop full of evidence and know that the Biden family grifted tens of millions of dollars. https://oversight.house.gov/the-bidens-influence-peddling-timeline/


Smirnov pleading guilty changes none of that. If you think it does, please provide an innocent explanation for: (i) why Hunter Biden was on the Burisma board; (ii) why Chinese companies paid Biden millions of dollars.

I'm interested to hear your answer. Because noted MAGA supporter Hunter Biden himself admitted he had no real qualifications to be on that board other than his last name.

https://www.axios.com/2019/10/15/hunter-biden-ukraine-interview-trump


Cal88
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