Not to mention the other Bidens including the Big Guy himself.

Cal88 said:

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philly1121 said:

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Onto your next MAGA conspiracy theory, eh?

All I can say to you is: no wrongdoing, no wrongdoing, no wrongdoing. You'll just have to cope with it with your warped outlook. You lost this one. Those are facts. Just deal with it.

Onto Romania! And yet another, it was the CIA, US that canceled the election! Eh, not so fast. Romania is a perfect case of - which way should our country go. You do realize that in December 2023, INSCOP did a poll of comparative beliefs of political systems from 2013 to 2023. In the opinion of 48.1% of Romanians, the communist regime was a good thing for Romania (compared to 45.5% in November 2013), while 42.2% are of the opposite opinion (compared to 44.7% in November 2013). 9.7% of those surveyed do not know or do not answer this question (compared to 9.8% in November 2013). You have half the population wanting to go back to communism because the disparities in income/wealth were less with comunism than they are now. Tells you where Romania is when it comes to elections.

---

Dude from Philly/Arizona or wherever just knows who/what Romanians should vote for.

When they vote wrong, they should have a do-over, as established by the USAID/NED/EU/Soros-appointed local judges, because these people don't know any better, they were obviously brainwashed by some TikTok influencers.

---

lol when you always lead your arguments with USAID and Soros appointed judges, you lose are credibility. All you see is Soros, Clinton, Pelosi, Schumer, Bill Gates - the unholy alliance of liberalism. lol Blame them all 88 says! They're behind everything! comical

I do research 88. You just blame. You blame the usual suspects with no evidence. Look a bit more closely to what happened in Romania and Moldova. But you won't. So just keep on blaming George Soros. lmao

BearGoggles said:

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philly1121 said:

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Hey, just want to put this here for those scoring at home. As if things were not settled, they are now. So BearGoggles can go cry in his beer.

https://newrepublic.com/post/189316/surprise-key-witness-reveals-lied-biden-corruption

But Trump will pardon him. With this convo now over, and no evidence of Biden wrongdoing as it was all made up - as I said all along - we can now focus on Trump's next whopper: he's actually not going to lower prices. Awww....egg lovers all over the US are crying. wah lol

---

You lack any ability to reason. The fact that one person made a false claim does not mean that all claims - made by other people and supported by independent evidence - are false.

We have a laptop full of evidence and know that the Biden family grifted tens of millions of dollars. https://oversight.house.gov/the-bidens-influence-peddling-timeline/


Smirnov pleading guilty changes none of that. If you think it does, please provide an innocent explanation for: (i) why Hunter Biden was on the Burisma board; (ii) why Chinese companies paid Biden millions of dollars.

I'm interested to hear your answer. Because noted MAGA supporter Hunter Biden himself admitted he had no real qualifications to be on that board other than his last name.

https://www.axios.com/2019/10/15/hunter-biden-ukraine-interview-trump

---

Guys! Everyone! NEWSFLASH! This just in: we have a laptop full of evidence of Biden grifting!! Uh, no. What we have is Hunter being hired by Burisma to sit on their board of exec's to assist Burisma with asking for assistance from the US for corporate governance. But he also assisted Burisma with trying to land an energy project in Tuscany, Italy in which he lobbied the US Ambassador with trying to get regulatory approval of the deal. But US embassy officials were reluctant to allow it as it seemed as though it was a conflict of interest. In the end, they never met with Hunter Biden. The project never materialized and no request to the US for anything was ever fulfilled.

And - anothe news flash - celebrity or idiot sons of politicians generally have no qualifications when serving on board of execs. Does Don Jr have knowledge of e-commerce? Oh. Well then why is he sitting on the board of Public Square? Does he have technical knowledge of drones? If not then why was he just placed on the board for Unusual Machines? You know, if anything, Don Jr. would have a hell of a lot more influence with these companies and how they might be regulated than Hunter ever did with Burisma. Hunter never joined his father's campaign. He was never in a position in the white house either formal or informal. But Donnie was an informal advisor to Trumps first white house admin. He's been a surrogate for daddy's policies on news programs. So, where you going with this Hunter Biden crap?

The $5 million "bribe" Smirnov said Hunter took? False. He made that up. Admitted to it. End of story.

The evil chinese money laundering scandal? The $40,000 check Sara Biden signed to Joe? Loan repayment? Prove that was laundered money from China. Prove it. House Repubs couldn't. All they claim was that since the money originated from China, it was money laundered through a Chinese corporation. But for it to be laundered, or illegal, it has to be proven that they money was obtained through illegal means. And the House GOP investigation couldn't prove it.

So, you go ahead with your claims of wrongdoing. Facts are on my side. They always have been. You've got nothing except your retweets, false claims and bruised ego.

sycasey said:

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BearGoggles said:

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philly1121 said:

---

Hey, just want to put this here for those scoring at home. As if things were not settled, they are now. So BearGoggles can go cry in his beer.

https://newrepublic.com/post/189316/surprise-key-witness-reveals-lied-biden-corruption

But Trump will pardon him. With this convo now over, and no evidence of Biden wrongdoing as it was all made up - as I said all along - we can now focus on Trump's next whopper: he's actually not going to lower prices. Awww....egg lovers all over the US are crying. wah lol

---

You lack any ability to reason. The fact that one person made a false claim does not mean that all claims - made by other people and supported by independent evidence - are false.

We have a laptop full of evidence and know that the Biden family grifted tens of millions of dollars. https://oversight.house.gov/the-bidens-influence-peddling-timeline/


Smirnov pleading guilty changes none of that. If you think it does, please provide an innocent explanation for: (i) why Hunter Biden was on the Burisma board; (ii) why Chinese companies paid Biden millions of dollars.

I'm interested to hear your answer. Because noted MAGA supporter Hunter Biden himself admitted he had no real qualifications to be on that board other than his last name.

https://www.axios.com/2019/10/15/hunter-biden-ukraine-interview-trump

---

So if all of this evidence is so strong, why didn't House Republicans actually prosecute a case against Biden? Answer: because it's not that strong.

I have little doubt that Hunter Biden was using his family's name to get himself cushy consulting jobs and get himself paid. There's plenty of evidence of that. What has not been proven is the key piece: that Joe Biden was being influenced by these foreign entities while serving in US government (as VP or President). Smirnov was going to be the star witness for this piece, and then it turns out he was making it up; that's why his admission is key here. Without him the link to actual wrongdoing by the President falls apart and all you have is vaguely shady stuff done by Hunter, and stuff that happened while Joe Biden was not in office.

---

A few points and I agree with you on at least one issue.

• House Republicans didn't "prosecute' a case because impeachment is a political - not criminal - proceeding. The politics didn't support it for a variety of reasons including, most notably, the fact that the Dems controlled the senate so any impeachment was going no where.
• You are moving the bar a little bit. The question isn't whether Joe Biden was influenced. The primary questions are whether: (i) he knew his family was grifting at the same time he was controlling policy (he has denied knowledge which seems nearly impossible); and (ii) did Joe Biden receive any of the grifted money?
• Smirnov false allegations were incendiary did ramp up the expectations. However, there is lots of other evidence that: (i) the Biden family received millions of dollars in influence peddling (that's not really in dispute); and (ii) suggests Joe Biden knew about it; and (iii) suggest Joe Biden received payments related to the grifting (more on this point below).
• I agree that the evidence concerning Joe Biden's "actual wrongdoing" is unclear. That is in part because it has not been fully investigated. For example, to my knowledge, Joe Biden has never been asked to explain AND DOCUMENT the reason for the payments he received from Hunter - payment that coincidentally were made shortly after Hunter received grifted money. At best, it creates a really bad appearance if if there was not "wrongdoing."
• We know that Joe Biden absolutely lied about the laptop. We know he lied about meeting Hunter's "business associates" and a variety of other matters. We also know that Hunter traveled on Air Force 2 - with Joe - and was grifting during Joe's official VP trips. Yet you would insist Joe had no idea why Hunter was on the plane or what he was doing on those trips (collecting $$)
• We also know that the state department and others flagged the appearances and conflict of interest in real time - when Joe was VP.

BearGoggles said:

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sycasey said:

---

BearGoggles said:

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philly1121 said:

---

Hey, just want to put this here for those scoring at home. As if things were not settled, they are now. So BearGoggles can go cry in his beer.

https://newrepublic.com/post/189316/surprise-key-witness-reveals-lied-biden-corruption

But Trump will pardon him. With this convo now over, and no evidence of Biden wrongdoing as it was all made up - as I said all along - we can now focus on Trump's next whopper: he's actually not going to lower prices. Awww....egg lovers all over the US are crying. wah lol

---

You lack any ability to reason. The fact that one person made a false claim does not mean that all claims - made by other people and supported by independent evidence - are false.

We have a laptop full of evidence and know that the Biden family grifted tens of millions of dollars. https://oversight.house.gov/the-bidens-influence-peddling-timeline/


Smirnov pleading guilty changes none of that. If you think it does, please provide an innocent explanation for: (i) why Hunter Biden was on the Burisma board; (ii) why Chinese companies paid Biden millions of dollars.

I'm interested to hear your answer. Because noted MAGA supporter Hunter Biden himself admitted he had no real qualifications to be on that board other than his last name.

https://www.axios.com/2019/10/15/hunter-biden-ukraine-interview-trump

---

So if all of this evidence is so strong, why didn't House Republicans actually prosecute a case against Biden? Answer: because it's not that strong.

I have little doubt that Hunter Biden was using his family's name to get himself cushy consulting jobs and get himself paid. There's plenty of evidence of that. What has not been proven is the key piece: that Joe Biden was being influenced by these foreign entities while serving in US government (as VP or President). Smirnov was going to be the star witness for this piece, and then it turns out he was making it up; that's why his admission is key here. Without him the link to actual wrongdoing by the President falls apart and all you have is vaguely shady stuff done by Hunter, and stuff that happened while Joe Biden was not in office.

---

A few points and I agree with you on at least one issue.

• House Republicans didn't "prosecute' a case because impeachment is a political - not criminal - proceeding. The politics didn't support it for a variety of reasons including, most notably, the fact that the Dems controlled the senate so any impeachment was going no where.
• You are moving the bar a little bit. The question isn't whether Joe Biden was influenced. The primary questions are whether: (i) he knew his family was grifting at the same time he was controlling policy (he has denied knowledge which seems nearly impossible); and (ii) did Joe Biden receive any of the grifted money?
• Smirnov false allegations were incendiary did ramp up the expectations. However, there is lots of other evidence that: (i) the Biden family received millions of dollars in influence peddling (that's not really in dispute); and (ii) suggests Joe Biden knew about it; and (iii) suggest Joe Biden received payments related to the grifting (more on this point below).
• I agree that the evidence concerning Joe Biden's "actual wrongdoing" is unclear. That is in part because it has not been fully investigated. For example, to my knowledge, Joe Biden has never been asked to explain AND DOCUMENT the reason for the payments he received from Hunter - payment that coincidentally were made shortly after Hunter received grifted money. At best, it creates a really bad appearance if if there was not "wrongdoing."
• We know that Joe Biden absolutely lied about the laptop. We know he lied about meeting Hunter's "business associates" and a variety of other matters. We also know that Hunter traveled on Air Force 2 - with Joe - and was grifting during Joe's official VP trips. Yet you would insist Joe had no idea why Hunter was on the plane or what he was doing on those trips (collecting $$)
• We also know that the state department and others flagged the appearances and conflict of interest in real time - when Joe was VP.

---

I agree that Hunter Biden's actions created the appearance of wrongdoing; this is why other people in the State Department flagged them. However, I still have yet to see any actual evidence that Joe Biden did anything other than indulge his troubled failson's business ventures and create bad optics.

And I don't buy that the House GOP just dropped the investigation because any impeachment attempt would go nowhere in the Senate. If they had really good evidence they would have been parading it around every day and twice on Sunday. They dropped it because they couldn't find anything good. Smirnov was going to be their big thing and his evidence turned out to be fake.

Because there is no evidence. If there was, and if it was as concrete as these marks say it is, James Comer would have kept investigating and "followed the money". Burisma clearly hired Hunter to try and get clout with worldwide energy contracts. But that is not illegal. That happens every day. Not just in Washington, but everywhere. This whole thing started with Vladimir Alexsyevin in the GRU.

philly1121 said:

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Edited by Staff said:

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Quote:

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So if all of this evidence is so strong, why didn't House Republicans actually prosecute a case against Biden? Answer: because it's not that strong.

---

Republicans don't conduct investigations because they actually want a result from them. It's their version of what Democrats do through the media. Other than right-affiliated TV stations, the media isn't going to cooperate with them to get their message out, so they do it by having congressional investigations that the media then has to report on because what Congress does is news.

In the specific case of Biden, the reason they didn't want to prosecute a case is obvious and was obvious from the beginning, but it's one Democrats refused to acknowledge. Biden was such a historically weak incumbent that they only wanted to damage him, but not actually remove him from office. Had they removed him, the Democrats might have held a real primary and had a stronger candidate for them to run against.

It's the Democrats' own fault they got trounced in the election, which is what makes the result so utterly delicious.

The other piece is that contrary to what the media is trying to tell you now, Smirnov is not at all essential to making a convincing case about corruption with the Biden family selling influence for cash.

No element of the Hunter Biden story has been “proven” to be propaganda. You could take Alexander Smirnov completely out of the story and it wouldn’t impact the basic influence-peddling story at all, and even with Smirnov, he’s been arrested, not convicted. https://t.co/h1TxFilT9h

— Matt Taibbi (@mtaibbi) March 28, 2024

But it doesn't matter anymore. The Bidens are done politically. The war was won.

---

So refreshing to read an honest take that it wasn't the mission of MAGA at all to find a factual result. But then you descend into the same madness that 88 and 34 swimming in. Do you think Newsmax was created to offer an honest take on politics? Or fairness in editorial writing? I mean, if you think Richard Mellon Scaife and Andrew Ruddy are political moderates - I got a bridge I want to sell you. Or Robert Shelby Herring, owner of OAN. Think he's the beacon of journalistic integrity of calling it down the middle? uh, no.

Your take on why the investigation of Joe and Hunter is also telling. Its honest. And of course, it was political. Never a shred of evidence. Just the smear. I mean, if you disregard the origins of this conspiracy theory - you would perhaps have a come to Jesus moment. But to do so would mean you would have to look in the mirror and admit that you got played. That there was no actual move to impeach him means you either really believed the lies, or you wanted the political witchhunt to succeed regardless of reality. Either way - kinda makes you look like a fool. A winning fool. But a fool nonetheless. The win is more important than facts. Dems need to figure that out.

And Smirnov was the case. That's why David Weiss' investigation is all but over. Facts. No wrongdoing. You got the win. I've got the truth.

---

Oh, Yogi hasn't been played. He knows quite well what his philosophy is.

Here's a chart I made for #RoseMAGA dipshits. No thinking or nuance required. pic.twitter.com/rAQUShpuEs

— Serious Sam (@SeriousSam26) September 20, 2020

BearGoggles said:

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sycasey said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

philly1121 said:

---

Hey, just want to put this here for those scoring at home. As if things were not settled, they are now. So BearGoggles can go cry in his beer.

https://newrepublic.com/post/189316/surprise-key-witness-reveals-lied-biden-corruption

But Trump will pardon him. With this convo now over, and no evidence of Biden wrongdoing as it was all made up - as I said all along - we can now focus on Trump's next whopper: he's actually not going to lower prices. Awww....egg lovers all over the US are crying. wah lol

---

You lack any ability to reason. The fact that one person made a false claim does not mean that all claims - made by other people and supported by independent evidence - are false.

We have a laptop full of evidence and know that the Biden family grifted tens of millions of dollars. https://oversight.house.gov/the-bidens-influence-peddling-timeline/


Smirnov pleading guilty changes none of that. If you think it does, please provide an innocent explanation for: (i) why Hunter Biden was on the Burisma board; (ii) why Chinese companies paid Biden millions of dollars.

I'm interested to hear your answer. Because noted MAGA supporter Hunter Biden himself admitted he had no real qualifications to be on that board other than his last name.

https://www.axios.com/2019/10/15/hunter-biden-ukraine-interview-trump

---

So if all of this evidence is so strong, why didn't House Republicans actually prosecute a case against Biden? Answer: because it's not that strong.

I have little doubt that Hunter Biden was using his family's name to get himself cushy consulting jobs and get himself paid. There's plenty of evidence of that. What has not been proven is the key piece: that Joe Biden was being influenced by these foreign entities while serving in US government (as VP or President). Smirnov was going to be the star witness for this piece, and then it turns out he was making it up; that's why his admission is key here. Without him the link to actual wrongdoing by the President falls apart and all you have is vaguely shady stuff done by Hunter, and stuff that happened while Joe Biden was not in office.

---

A few points and I agree with you on at least one issue.

• House Republicans didn't "prosecute' a case because impeachment is a political - not criminal - proceeding. The politics didn't support it for a variety of reasons including, most notably, the fact that the Dems controlled the senate so any impeachment was going no where.
• You are moving the bar a little bit. The question isn't whether Joe Biden was influenced. The primary questions are whether: (i) he knew his family was grifting at the same time he was controlling policy (he has denied knowledge which seems nearly impossible); and (ii) did Joe Biden receive any of the grifted money?
• Smirnov false allegations were incendiary did ramp up the expectations. However, there is lots of other evidence that: (i) the Biden family received millions of dollars in influence peddling (that's not really in dispute); and (ii) suggests Joe Biden knew about it; and (iii) suggest Joe Biden received payments related to the grifting (more on this point below).
• I agree that the evidence concerning Joe Biden's "actual wrongdoing" is unclear. That is in part because it has not been fully investigated. For example, to my knowledge, Joe Biden has never been asked to explain AND DOCUMENT the reason for the payments he received from Hunter - payment that coincidentally were made shortly after Hunter received grifted money. At best, it creates a really bad appearance if if there was not "wrongdoing."
• We know that Joe Biden absolutely lied about the laptop. We know he lied about meeting Hunter's "business associates" and a variety of other matters. We also know that Hunter traveled on Air Force 2 - with Joe - and was grifting during Joe's official VP trips. Yet you would insist Joe had no idea why Hunter was on the plane or what he was doing on those trips (collecting $$)
• We also know that the state department and others flagged the appearances and conflict of interest in real time - when Joe was VP.

---

I agree that Hunter Biden's actions created the appearance of wrongdoing; this is why other people in the State Department flagged them. However, I still have yet to see any actual evidence that Joe Biden did anything other than indulge his troubled failson's business ventures and create bad optics.

And I don't buy that the House GOP just dropped the investigation because any impeachment attempt would go nowhere in the Senate. If they had really good evidence they would have been parading it around every day and twice on Sunday. They dropped it because they couldn't find anything good. Smirnov was going to be their big thing and his evidence turned out to be fake.

---

There is verified documentary evidence that Hunter and James Biden wrote checks to Joe. They formed many shell companies (why?). There is an email that talks about Hunter holding "10% for the big guy." There is first person testimony from Tony Bobulinski who says Joe Biden was involved.

That is actual evidence of more than indulgence. Has Joe Biden ever explained these payments or other evidence? To my knowledge he has not . . . yet the media (and seemingly you) are very uncurious to ask or answer these types of questions.

This evidence all has nothing to do with Smirnov. Yes - Smirnov was put forward as a smoking gun and he clearly was not. The republicans admitted that pretty quickly. But that doesn't dismiss or diminish the other independent evidence.

I have no problem if you say the evidence doesn't convince you. However, that is very different then claiming there is no evidence which is essentially gas lighting.

---

There is no evidence to suggest that those checks came from laundered money or that said money was gained from illegal activity. And Bobulinski? He is completely shady. Witness after witness has poured cold water on his testimony that Joe knew or even had general knowledge of the deal with this Chinese energy company that is at the heart of these crazy theories. And it was in 2017 when Biden wasn't even in office. And despite this "hold 10% for the big guy" - this was actually proposed by Bobulinski himself. This email was never responded to by Hunter and it never ended up in the equity agreement of the deal. So - where's the fire? Where's the smoke?

One final time, the Ukraine-Biden conspiracy theories originated from the GRU. That is absolute fact. It is not nuance. It is not political. It is fact. And what other "independent evidence" is there that you speak of? There is none. You, sir, are gaslighting.

Vladimir Alexseyevin, Oleksander Dubinsky, Konstantin Kiliminick. Dubinsky met Giuliani in 2019 to produce a film about the alleged wrongdoing. Kiliminick was working on behalf of the FSB, had the strongest ties to Putin and is the one who ran the media campaign/outreach to spread the falsehoods. All these false allegations and conspiracy theories about the $5 million payment and other nonsense was then passed on to Peter Schweitzer (senior editor at Breitbart News), John Solomon (The Hill, Washington Times), Fox News and OAN.

I'm not gaslighting. There is zero evidence that Joe Biden or Hunter Biden committed any wrongdoing related to Ukraine. Now, if you want to talk about Hunter using drugs or his firearm charge or not filing a tax return, that's fair game. But there is no evidence of wrongdoing by the Bidens in Ukraine.

Honest question: Anybody/anything with the name Biden attached to it bores the crap out of me now. Does that make me some sort of weirdo?

Cal88 said:

---

Swiss ambassador who participated in the Istanbul peace negotiations at the start of the war in April 22 confirms that NATO scuttled the peace agreement in order to weaken Russia. They had 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers (and counting) die in that attempt, which has failed.

Another very important testimony on what happened in the now infamous Russia-Ukraine peace negotiations in Türkiye, 6 weeks into the war.

This time by Jean-Daniel Ruch 👇, who was Switzerland's ambassador to Türkiye at the time.

He confirms other accounts that it is the West -… pic.twitter.com/VTA9lTNeQj

— Arnaud Bertrand (@RnaudBertrand) December 18, 2024

"Jean-Daniel Ruch, Switzerland's ambassador to Trkiye at the time, confirms other accounts that it is the West - specifically "the Americans with their British allies" - that "pulled the plug on the negotiations" when they were "on the edge" of succeeding. He says they did so because they thought it was too early and they wanted to "first weaken Russia".

As he describes it, he found the decision "deeply immoral" because "it was clear at that time that if the war continued there would be an escalation and the dead would be at least in the tens of thousands, more likely in the hundreds of thousands".

He asks, rhetorically: "why did all these people die?" because now "they may have weakened Russia but they weakened the whole West at the same time, maybe not the Americans but certainly Europe." Also, if a peace deal was done today, it would still "pretty much be based on what was negotiated in Istanbul", assuming the Russians are still willing, a tall order given he's "not so sure that the Russians are prepared to compromise today."

---

The Swiss don't care about anyone other than themselves.

There must not be enough profit in this war for them.

Cal88 said:

---

Swiss ambassador who participated in the Istanbul peace negotiations at the start of the war in April 22 confirms that NATO scuttled the peace agreement in order to weaken Russia. They had 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers (and counting) die in that attempt, which has failed.

Another very important testimony on what happened in the now infamous Russia-Ukraine peace negotiations in Türkiye, 6 weeks into the war.

This time by Jean-Daniel Ruch 👇, who was Switzerland's ambassador to Türkiye at the time.

He confirms other accounts that it is the West -… pic.twitter.com/VTA9lTNeQj

— Arnaud Bertrand (@RnaudBertrand) December 18, 2024

"Jean-Daniel Ruch, Switzerland's ambassador to Trkiye at the time, confirms other accounts that it is the West - specifically "the Americans with their British allies" - that "pulled the plug on the negotiations" when they were "on the edge" of succeeding. He says they did so because they thought it was too early and they wanted to "first weaken Russia".

As he describes it, he found the decision "deeply immoral" because "it was clear at that time that if the war continued there would be an escalation and the dead would be at least in the tens of thousands, more likely in the hundreds of thousands".

He asks, rhetorically: "why did all these people die?" because now "they may have weakened Russia but they weakened the whole West at the same time, maybe not the Americans but certainly Europe." Also, if a peace deal was done today, it would still "pretty much be based on what was negotiated in Istanbul", assuming the Russians are still willing, a tall order given he's "not so sure that the Russians are prepared to compromise today."

---

88, did you light a candle at the passing of Lt. Gen. Igor Kirillov?

dimitrig said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

Swiss ambassador who participated in the Istanbul peace negotiations at the start of the war in April 22 confirms that NATO scuttled the peace agreement in order to weaken Russia. They had 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers (and counting) die in that attempt, which has failed.

Another very important testimony on what happened in the now infamous Russia-Ukraine peace negotiations in Türkiye, 6 weeks into the war.

This time by Jean-Daniel Ruch 👇, who was Switzerland's ambassador to Türkiye at the time.

He confirms other accounts that it is the West -… pic.twitter.com/VTA9lTNeQj

— Arnaud Bertrand (@RnaudBertrand) December 18, 2024

"Jean-Daniel Ruch, Switzerland's ambassador to Trkiye at the time, confirms other accounts that it is the West - specifically "the Americans with their British allies" - that "pulled the plug on the negotiations" when they were "on the edge" of succeeding. He says they did so because they thought it was too early and they wanted to "first weaken Russia".

As he describes it, he found the decision "deeply immoral" because "it was clear at that time that if the war continued there would be an escalation and the dead would be at least in the tens of thousands, more likely in the hundreds of thousands".

He asks, rhetorically: "why did all these people die?" because now "they may have weakened Russia but they weakened the whole West at the same time, maybe not the Americans but certainly Europe." Also, if a peace deal was done today, it would still "pretty much be based on what was negotiated in Istanbul", assuming the Russians are still willing, a tall order given he's "not so sure that the Russians are prepared to compromise today."

---

The Swiss don't care about anyone other than themselves.

---

You could say that about any other country in the world. this being said, the Swiss are fairly respected as diplomats due to that country's centuries old tradition of neutrality.

As to their business and the repercussions from the Ukraine war, they have lost the Russian banking business, but perhaps they've gained the business of war profiteers from Ukraine and NATO. It's pretty much guaranteed that some of the estimated $300+ billion that went to Ukraine the last three years have ended up in Swiss accounts.

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

philly1121 said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

Swiss ambassador who participated in the Istanbul peace negotiations at the start of the war in April 22 confirms that NATO scuttled the peace agreement in order to weaken Russia. They had 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers (and counting) die in that attempt, which has failed.

Another very important testimony on what happened in the now infamous Russia-Ukraine peace negotiations in Türkiye, 6 weeks into the war.

This time by Jean-Daniel Ruch 👇, who was Switzerland's ambassador to Türkiye at the time.

He confirms other accounts that it is the West -… pic.twitter.com/VTA9lTNeQj

— Arnaud Bertrand (@RnaudBertrand) December 18, 2024

"Jean-Daniel Ruch, Switzerland's ambassador to Trkiye at the time, confirms other accounts that it is the West - specifically "the Americans with their British allies" - that "pulled the plug on the negotiations" when they were "on the edge" of succeeding. He says they did so because they thought it was too early and they wanted to "first weaken Russia".

As he describes it, he found the decision "deeply immoral" because "it was clear at that time that if the war continued there would be an escalation and the dead would be at least in the tens of thousands, more likely in the hundreds of thousands".

He asks, rhetorically: "why did all these people die?" because now "they may have weakened Russia but they weakened the whole West at the same time, maybe not the Americans but certainly Europe." Also, if a peace deal was done today, it would still "pretty much be based on what was negotiated in Istanbul", assuming the Russians are still willing, a tall order given he's "not so sure that the Russians are prepared to compromise today."

---

88, did you light a candle at the passing of Lt. Gen. Igor Kirillov?

---

It might be worth doing this and saying a prayer for this man and the other ~700,000 mostly Ukrainian KIAs from this war, most of whom would still be alive today if NATO hadn't scuttled the Istanbul Peace Treaty.

---

They would all be alive if Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine.

---

And if NATO didn't
-nurture Ukrainian far right nationalists since the 1950s, including bona fide nazi leaders
-coup the democratically-elected government of Ukraine in 2014,
-set up a radical nationalist government in its place and prime it to marginalize and bomb its Russian minority
-arm and train the Kiev army building it into the 2nd best land army in NATO
-violate the Minsk Agreements
-send an army of 60,000 to crush the Donbas rebels in the winter of 22
-scuttle the Istanbul Peace Treaty

...they would also still be alive.

Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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Cal88 said:

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philly1121 said:

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Cal88 said:

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Swiss ambassador who participated in the Istanbul peace negotiations at the start of the war in April 22 confirms that NATO scuttled the peace agreement in order to weaken Russia. They had 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers (and counting) die in that attempt, which has failed.

Another very important testimony on what happened in the now infamous Russia-Ukraine peace negotiations in Türkiye, 6 weeks into the war.

This time by Jean-Daniel Ruch 👇, who was Switzerland's ambassador to Türkiye at the time.

He confirms other accounts that it is the West -… pic.twitter.com/VTA9lTNeQj

— Arnaud Bertrand (@RnaudBertrand) December 18, 2024

"Jean-Daniel Ruch, Switzerland's ambassador to Trkiye at the time, confirms other accounts that it is the West - specifically "the Americans with their British allies" - that "pulled the plug on the negotiations" when they were "on the edge" of succeeding. He says they did so because they thought it was too early and they wanted to "first weaken Russia".

As he describes it, he found the decision "deeply immoral" because "it was clear at that time that if the war continued there would be an escalation and the dead would be at least in the tens of thousands, more likely in the hundreds of thousands".

He asks, rhetorically: "why did all these people die?" because now "they may have weakened Russia but they weakened the whole West at the same time, maybe not the Americans but certainly Europe." Also, if a peace deal was done today, it would still "pretty much be based on what was negotiated in Istanbul", assuming the Russians are still willing, a tall order given he's "not so sure that the Russians are prepared to compromise today."

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88, did you light a candle at the passing of Lt. Gen. Igor Kirillov?

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It might be worth doing this and saying a prayer for this man and the other ~700,000 mostly Ukrainian KIAs from this war, most of whom would still be alive today if NATO hadn't scuttled the Istanbul Peace Treaty.

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They would all be alive if Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine.

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And if NATO didn't
-nurture Ukrainian far right nationalists since the 1950s, including bona fide nazi leaders
-coup the democratically-elected government of Ukraine in 2014,
-set up a radical nationalist government in its place and prime it to marginalize and bomb its Russian minority
-arm and train the Kiev army building it into the 2nd best land army in NATO
-violate the Minsk Agreements
-send an army of 60,000 to crush the Donbas rebels in the winter of 22
-scuttle the Istanbul Peace Treaty

...they would also still be alive.

---

but what about....
but what about....

Zippergate said:

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Yeah, what a scumbag, unleashing a bioweapon on the world and then "protecting" people from it with another bioweapon. Oh wait, that's your guys. Apologies.

If you were curious why Igor Kirillov was just assassinated, watch this video.

In August 2023, Kirillov outlined how the US and Big Pharma “rule the world” by “manufacturing biological crises”.

He also discussed how all of this evidence has been submitted to the UN many times,… pic.twitter.com/EMTVTfrGnl

— Clandestine (@WarClandestine) December 17, 2024

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Zipper, you do realize, not that you even care at this point, that Mr. Kirillov was the commander of Russia's nuclear, chemical and bioweapons forces. And of course he was the principle that originated the US/Bioweapons in Ukraine conspiracy theory which Tulsi ate up. Not that you care since you eat up Russian intel. slurp

Zippergate said:

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ROFL. He was infinitely more credible than our intelligence state. It's a George Constanza world. Whatever they're telling, believe the opposite.

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Zipper siding with the Russian military against his own country. Thanks for weakening America.

Cal88 said:

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philly1121 said:

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Zippergate said:

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ROFL. He was infinitely more credible than our intelligence state. It's a George Constanza world. Whatever they're telling, believe the opposite.

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Zipper siding with the Russian military against his own country. Thanks for weakening America.

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I guess you also "sided with America" on the invasion of Iraq, because you also believed our intell on yellowcake, mobile biolabs and assorted Saddam WMDs...

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No. I was against the invasion of Iraq. Both invasions. But your comparison is pretty weak. It was the Bush Admin that purported to show that Iraq had weapons. But it was our own US Iraq survey group that walked back that intel.

In this instance, its Russia propogating all these lies - which you and others soak up. US Intel is saying, with evidence, that this is, in fact, Russian propaganda.

So, my condolences to you and Igor's family.

Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

philly1121 said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

Swiss ambassador who participated in the Istanbul peace negotiations at the start of the war in April 22 confirms that NATO scuttled the peace agreement in order to weaken Russia. They had 600,000 Ukrainian soldiers (and counting) die in that attempt, which has failed.

Another very important testimony on what happened in the now infamous Russia-Ukraine peace negotiations in Türkiye, 6 weeks into the war.

This time by Jean-Daniel Ruch 👇, who was Switzerland's ambassador to Türkiye at the time.

He confirms other accounts that it is the West -… pic.twitter.com/VTA9lTNeQj

— Arnaud Bertrand (@RnaudBertrand) December 18, 2024

"Jean-Daniel Ruch, Switzerland's ambassador to Trkiye at the time, confirms other accounts that it is the West - specifically "the Americans with their British allies" - that "pulled the plug on the negotiations" when they were "on the edge" of succeeding. He says they did so because they thought it was too early and they wanted to "first weaken Russia".

As he describes it, he found the decision "deeply immoral" because "it was clear at that time that if the war continued there would be an escalation and the dead would be at least in the tens of thousands, more likely in the hundreds of thousands".

He asks, rhetorically: "why did all these people die?" because now "they may have weakened Russia but they weakened the whole West at the same time, maybe not the Americans but certainly Europe." Also, if a peace deal was done today, it would still "pretty much be based on what was negotiated in Istanbul", assuming the Russians are still willing, a tall order given he's "not so sure that the Russians are prepared to compromise today."

---

88, did you light a candle at the passing of Lt. Gen. Igor Kirillov?

---

It might be worth doing this and saying a prayer for this man and the other ~700,000 mostly Ukrainian KIAs from this war, most of whom would still be alive today if NATO hadn't scuttled the Istanbul Peace Treaty.

---

They would all be alive if Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine.

---

And if NATO didn't
-nurture Ukrainian far right nationalists since the 1950s, including bona fide nazi leaders
-coup the democratically-elected government of Ukraine in 2014,
-set up a radical nationalist government in its place and prime it to marginalize and bomb its Russian minority
-arm and train the Kiev army building it into the 2nd best land army in NATO
-violate the Minsk Agreements
-send an army of 60,000 to crush the Donbas rebels in the winter of 22
-scuttle the Istanbul Peace Treaty

...they would also still be alive.

---

And if Russia hadn't started the war.

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And what if they didn't.

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Yeah, they shouldn't have funded those separatist groups either. Alas!

> They would all be alive if Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine.

shhhh, stop making sense