The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

953,942 Views | 10345 Replies | Last: 15 hrs ago by AunBear89
Cal88
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tequila4kapp said:

You can't really cite Russia's failure to use of conscription as proof they haven't had substantial losses when they are bringing in fighters from North Korea, the middle east and Africa.

The gap between reality and wartime propaganda is huge here. There is no sizeable presence of Norks or Africans on the front, or any evidence of that beyond a few grainy pics of Asian troops in Russian uniforms or articles from Ukraine or NATO sources. If as you claim Russia has been using a significant number of mercs from NK or Africa, the same way NATO has been using foreign fighters from Europe, N and S America, stronger evidence would have surfaced by now.

Russia has Asian minorities in the east, who are overrepresented in their army rosters, the same way minorities are overrepresented in the US army.


Buryat Russian soldiers

What we do know is that 11,000 North Korean troops did train near Vladivostok earlier this Fall - 9 time zones away from Ukraine.

NATO/Ukraine have been pushing the NK narrative hard in order to get South Korea to commit to their campaign. SK is the only remaining high-quality high-volume moderate cost military industrial power in the broader NATO orbit. They have been reluctant to supply Ukraine with their large inventory of shells and hardware to date, because they don't want Russia to retaliate by supplying cutting edge military tech to North Korea.
movielover
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Colonel Douglass McGregor was saying Ukraine's KIA was 700K a year ago, with 100K amputees, and then backed off that figure by 100K for unknown reasons (recalculation, blowback, ??).
Cal88
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movielover said:

Colonel Douglass McGregor was saying Ukraine's KIA was 700K a year ago, with 100K amputees, and then backed off that figure by 100K for unknown reasons (recalculation, blowback, ??).

600K over 1,040 days of war to date translates into an average daily Ukrainian KIA figure of 575, which is very reasonable as a lower bound, especially if you include the number of Ukrainian desertions. During the more intense phases of this war, such as Bakhmut or the ill-fated southern offensive, the number of Ukrainian KIA was at or above 1,000/day. The Russians have fired over 10,000 shells/day on average over the course of this war, a staggering number. The great majority of Ukrainian losses have come from artillery.

There are as well hundreds of thousands of drafted/draftable Ukrainian men hiding right now, hoping the war will end soon.

German RTL (German MSM) report:




AP: number of Ukrainian desrters could be as high as 200,000:

Desertion threatens to starve Ukraine's forces at a crucial time in its war with Russia
https://apnews.com/article/deserters-awol-ukraine-russia-war-def676562552d42bc5d593363c9e5ea0

Quote:

The troops who walk away
More than 100,000 soldiers have been charged under Ukraine's desertion laws since Russia invaded in February 2022, according to the country's General Prosecutor's Office.
Nearly half have gone AWOL in the last year alone, after Kyiv launched an aggressive and controversial mobilization drive that government officials and military commanders concede has largely failed.

It's a staggeringly high number by any measure, as there were an estimated 300,000 Ukrainian soldiers engaged in combat before the mobilization drive began. And the actual number of deserters may be much higher. One lawmaker with knowledge of military matters estimated it could be as high as 200,000.

Many deserters don't return after being granted medical leave. Bone-tired by the constancy of war, they are psychologically and emotionally scarred. They feel guilt about being unable to summon the will to fight, anger over how the war effort is being led, and frustration that it seems unwinnable.

"Being quiet about a huge problem only harms our country," said Serhii Hnezdilov, one of few soldiers to speak publicly about his choice to desert. He was charged shortly after the AP interviewed him in September.

Another deserter said he initially left his infantry unit with permission because he needed surgery. By the time his leave was up, he couldn't bring himself to return.

He still has nightmares about the comrades he saw get killed.

"The best way to explain it is imagining you are sitting under incoming fire and from their (Russian) side, it's 50 shells coming toward you, while from our side, it's just one. Then you see how your friends are getting torn to pieces, and you realize that any second, it can happen to you," he said.

"Meanwhile guys (Ukrainian soldiers) 10 kilometers (6 miles) away order you on the radio: 'Go on, brace yourselves. Everything will be fine,'" he said.

Contrast the reality as reported above, to the narrative pushed by the likes of Kofman of low Ukrainian losses and Russian "meat waves".
movielover
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Legacy Media trying to catch up.
Cal88
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On the lighter side, east Siberian Russian woman

movielover
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Cal88
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Cal88
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Yesterday was national Bandera celebration day in (western) Ukraine:





Main square in Lviv yesterday, second-largest city in western Ukraine:



This kind of Ukrainian nationalism, which has gone mainstream since the 2014 Maidan Coup, taught is schools and sung like a second national anthem, is problematic.


Haloski
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This is the longest 3 day war ever.
sycasey
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Haloski said:

This is the longest 3 day war ever.
Special military operation.
Cal88
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Haloski said:

This is the longest 3 day war ever.

Lindsey and Boris want to fight it to the last Ukrainian. Boris almost single-handedly turned a one-month military operation into a 3 year war by scuttling the Istanbul Peace agreement in April '22.



Question to you and the low-info Slava Ukraini crowd, what is the endgame here? Do you think Ukraine has a chance to win this war??

Lindsay: "This is a very big deal"
Eastern Oregon Bear
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It must be a heavy burden to always be the smartest person in the room.
Cal88
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I guess that must be why U2Sucks has bailed out.



New recruits in Ukraine are shipped to the front after a couple of weeks of summary training, and don't last long in the front. Many are listed as "missing" in order for the state to withhold payment to the family of the KIAs.

One thing from that video is that the mother looks pretty young, her son must have been very young as well. Ukraine might already be drafting teenagers.
philly1121
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To everyone on this board - I wouldn't pay too much attention to the twitter/x reposts 88 gives us. Zlatti71 is an absolute shill for Putin and Russian propaganda.

Again, 88, I hope you're getting paid for these posts.
movielover
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Your side says this about virtually every uncomfortable fact or observation. Attack the messenger.

When 88 posted videos of men being kidnapped off the street, you objected. Do you think someone is staging fake, yet realistic, videos?

NATO war supporters here protested the claims of massive Russian artillery use, and the West running out of ammo. Then the NATO theater EU Commander, an American, confirmed all that, stating no one anticipated a WWI / WWII artillery war.

When an insider leaked internal military documents revealing a historically lopsided and devastating KIA estimates, war supporters brushed it off.
bearister
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movielover said:

Your side says this about virtually every uncomfortable fact or observation.

I find your side's empathy for the plight of Ukrainian conscripts as touching as your concern that Biden was treated unfairly getting squeezed out of running for a second term.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Cal88
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bearister said:

movielover said:

Your side says this about virtually every uncomfortable fact or observation.

I find your side's empathy for the plight of Ukrainian conscripts as touching as your concern that Biden was treated unfairly getting squeezed out of running for a second term.

Do you think that those who have planned and sustained this war - Lyndsay Graham, Victoria Nuland, Tony Blinken, NATO chief Rutte et al - have an ounce of empathy for the Ukrainians?





Cal88
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philly1121 said:

To everyone on this board - I wouldn't pay too much attention to the twitter/x reposts 88 gives us. Zlatti71 is an absolute shill for Putin and Russian propaganda.

Again, 88, I hope you're getting paid for these posts.

Doesn't get more ad hominem than this, because clearly, you are not able to address in any shape or form the content presented in my posts.

All my tweets above either linked to articles or news reports, or showed slices of Ukrainian lives that are unreported or underreported by the MSM.

BearGoggles
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Cal88 said:

philly1121 said:

To everyone on this board - I wouldn't pay too much attention to the twitter/x reposts 88 gives us. Zlatti71 is an absolute shill for Putin and Russian propaganda.

Again, 88, I hope you're getting paid for these posts.

Doesn't get more ad hominem than this, because clearly, you are not able to address in any shape or form the content presented in my posts.

All my tweets above either linked to articles or news reports, or showed slices of Ukrainian lives that are unreported or underreported by the MSM.


How is it ad hominem to say you post tweets from crappy and totally unreliable sources? Not only is it an attack on the substance (basically you're posting propaganda), but it seems objectively true.

sycasey
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Cal88 said:

Do you think that those who have planned and sustained this war - Lyndsay Graham, Victoria Nuland, Tony Blinken, NATO chief Rutte et al - have an ounce of empathy for the Ukrainians?
Why is Vladimir Putin's name always left off of these lists?
BearGoggles
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

Do you think that those who have planned and sustained this war - Lyndsay Graham, Victoria Nuland, Tony Blinken, NATO chief Rutte et al - have an ounce of empathy for the Ukrainians?
Why is Vladimir Putin's name always left off of these lists?
Because he only starts wars, but is not responsible for sustaining them. Its the fault of the Ukrainians for not surrendering. Duh.
bearister
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The Just War Theory:

1. Just Cause: The war must be fought for a morally justifiable reason, such as self-defense or preventing a grave injustice.

2. Legitimate Authority: Only a recognized political authority can declare war.

3. Right Intention: The primary goal of the war must be to achieve justice, not personal gain.

4. Last Resort: All peaceful options must be exhausted before resorting to war.

5. Reasonable Prospect of Success: There must be a realistic chance of achieving the war aims.

Which side is violating the most rules of the theory?

*I will throw you a bone and say the Ukraine is violating #5 since they have no reasonable chance of ultimately prevailing. If the sides tie in rule violations, what does the OT period look like? Trench warfare for successive 30 day periods until one side cries "uncle?"
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movielover
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Quickie clip from a clever Russian gal.

philly1121
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Cal88 said:

philly1121 said:

To everyone on this board - I wouldn't pay too much attention to the twitter/x reposts 88 gives us. Zlatti71 is an absolute shill for Putin and Russian propaganda.

Again, 88, I hope you're getting paid for these posts.

Doesn't get more ad hominem than this, because clearly, you are not able to address in any shape or form the content presented in my posts.

All my tweets above either linked to articles or news reports, or showed slices of Ukrainian lives that are unreported or underreported by the MSM.


Its my exact point tho. You don't post anything on your own. You repost tweets of users aligned with Russia. I mean, I would give you props if you had an original thought or post. But we don't get that from you. Check out operation Doppleganger.

MSM in MAGA language is "why won't they talk about government controlled hurricanes?"
Haloski
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Cal88 said:

Haloski said:

This is the longest 3 day war ever.

Lindsey and Boris want to fight it to the last Ukrainian. Boris almost single-handedly turned a one-month military operation into a 3 year war by scuttling the Istanbul Peace agreement in April '22.



Question to you and the low-info Slava Ukraini crowd, what is the endgame here? Do you think Ukraine has a chance to win this war??

Lindsay: "This is a very big deal"



Your guy Putin didn't think this was a distinct possibility? Maybe he did?

He's either totally unfazed by the suffering and the loss of life to the point that you should condemn him for it or he's incredibly foolish.

Pick one. He's either a monster or an idiot. I suppose you could choose both.

Today is day 1045 of what I was told would be 3 and you said should have been 30.

Screw Putin.

Anyway, I look forward to whatever response you have ChatGPT create for you.
movielover
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False analysis. We pushed the war, our idiotic policies and busy body MIC / CIA drones. We wouldn't let China put military gear inside Mexico on our border, neither will Putin.

After multiple serious warnings, communiques, requests for dialog, and the US / NATO breaking treaties and bold-faced lying to Russia about our true intents, Putin commenced his SMO.

It worked! Ukraine came to the table, and a peace deal was agreed to in early 2022 in Istanbul. Then we nixed it via Boris Johnson bc we wanted to "weaken Russia".

That has all now backfired as Ukraine has more than 700K KIA, plus 150K amputees; Russia has gained valuable territory (20% of Ukraine) and is militarily stronger; and the EU and NATO are tapped out on ammo and much military gear. US stockpiles are severely affected, and the war is hammering the UK and Germany economically and socially. Battered UKR is seeing widespread soldier defections.

But why do you ignore all these plainly known facts? Love war, PDS, Biden Homer?
sycasey
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movielover said:

False analysis. We pushed the war, our idiotic policies and busy body MIC / CIA drones. We wouldn't let China put military gear inside Mexico on our border, neither will Putin.
Remind me of when we recently invaded/annexed part of Mexico and funded separatist groups in an attempt to start a civil war there? Because that's the only way you're creating an equivalence to what Russia did in Ukraine.

(No, I don't think the Mexican-American War is recent enough to count.)
Haloski
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movielover said:

False analysis. We pushed the war, our idiotic policies and busy body MIC / CIA drones. We wouldn't let China put military gear inside Mexico on our border, neither will Putin.

After multiple serious warnings, communiques, requests for dialog, and the US / NATO breaking treaties and bold-faced lying to Russia about our true intents, Putin commenced his SMO.

It worked! Ukraine came to the table, and a peace deal was agreed to in early 2022 in Istanbul. Then we nixed it via Boris Johnson bc we wanted to "weaken Russia".

That has all now backfired as Ukraine has more than 700K KIA, plus 150K amputees; Russia has gained valuable territory (20% of Ukraine) and is militarily stronger; and the EU and NATO are tapped out on ammo and much military gear. US stockpiles are severely affected, and the war is hammering the UK and Germany economically and socially. Battered UKR is seeing widespread soldier defections.

But why do you ignore all these plainly known facts? Love war, PDS, Biden Homer?


Yet still: Putin is either a monster or a moron.
Haloski
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1046 of 3

What a SMO!

It's the specialest of military operations.
movielover
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sycasey said:

movielover said:

False analysis. We pushed the war, our idiotic policies and busy body MIC / CIA drones. We wouldn't let China put military gear inside Mexico on our border, neither will Putin.
Remind me of when we recently invaded/annexed part of Mexico and funded separatist groups in an attempt to start a civil war there? Because that's the only way you're creating an equivalence to what Russia did in Ukraine.

(No, I don't think the Mexican-American War is recent enough to count.)


Yes, our CIA allegedly funded and overthrew a duly elected president in Ukraine; and funded / directed a civil war.

Likewise has / had a dozen 'secret' facilities in UKR, on the Russian border.

Allegations we also had 46 bioweapons labs in Ukraine. Propoganda? Or a program to dismantle weapons of mass destruction?

Daily Mail: "The 46 US labs in Ukraine and the $200 Pentagon program that sparked a propaganda war: How ex-Soviet facilities adopted by America that house pathogens prompted Kremlin bioweapons claims in Putin's back yard"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10615639/I-said-no-thing-Tulsi-Gabbard-denies-claiming-making-bioweapons-Ukraine-says-Mitt-Romney-RESIGN-doesnt-evidence-claims-treasonous.html
sycasey
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movielover said:

sycasey said:

movielover said:

False analysis. We pushed the war, our idiotic policies and busy body MIC / CIA drones. We wouldn't let China put military gear inside Mexico on our border, neither will Putin.
Remind me of when we recently invaded/annexed part of Mexico and funded separatist groups in an attempt to start a civil war there? Because that's the only way you're creating an equivalence to what Russia did in Ukraine.

(No, I don't think the Mexican-American War is recent enough to count.)


Yes, our CIA allegedly funded and overthrew a duly elected president in Ukraine; and funded / directed a civil war.

Likewise has / had a dozen 'secret' facilities in UKR, on the Russian border.

Allegations we also had 46 bioweapons labs in Ukraine. Propoganda? Or a program to dismantle weapons of mass destruction?

Daily Mail: "The 46 US labs in Ukraine and the $200 Pentagon program that sparked a propaganda war: How ex-Soviet facilities adopted by America that house pathogens prompted Kremlin bioweapons claims in Putin's back yard"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10615639/I-said-no-thing-Tulsi-Gabbard-denies-claiming-making-bioweapons-Ukraine-says-Mitt-Romney-RESIGN-doesnt-evidence-claims-treasonous.html

Yes, allegations that I do not find convincing, but you do you.
philly1121
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movielover is getting lazy. The Daily Mail? lmao

And the bio weapons labs in Ukraine is pure Russian propaganda. Fiction.
bear2034
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philly1121 said:

Cal88 said:

philly1121 said:

Onto your next MAGA conspiracy theory, eh?

All I can say to you is: no wrongdoing, no wrongdoing, no wrongdoing. You'll just have to cope with it with your warped outlook. You lost this one. Those are facts. Just deal with it.

Onto Romania! And yet another, it was the CIA, US that canceled the election! Eh, not so fast. Romania is a perfect case of - which way should our country go. You do realize that in December 2023, INSCOP did a poll of comparative beliefs of political systems from 2013 to 2023. In the opinion of 48.1% of Romanians, the communist regime was a good thing for Romania (compared to 45.5% in November 2013), while 42.2% are of the opposite opinion (compared to 44.7% in November 2013). 9.7% of those surveyed do not know or do not answer this question (compared to 9.8% in November 2013). You have half the population wanting to go back to communism because the disparities in income/wealth were less with comunism than they are now. Tells you where Romania is when it comes to elections.

Dude from Philly/Arizona or wherever just knows who/what Romanians should vote for.

When they vote wrong, they should have a do-over, as established by the USAID/NED/EU/Soros-appointed local judges, because these people don't know any better, they were obviously brainwashed by some TikTok influencers.
lol when you always lead your arguments with USAID and Soros appointed judges, you lose are credibility. All you see is Soros, Clinton, Pelosi, Schumer, Bill Gates - the unholy alliance of liberalism. lol Blame them all 88 says! They're behind everything! comical

I do research 88. You just blame. You blame the usual suspects with no evidence. Look a bit more closely to what happened in Romania and Moldova. But you won't. So just keep on blaming George Soros. lmao

There's a reason why Joe Biden just awarded George Soros the Medal of Freedom today.
bear2034
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philly1121 said:

Cal88 said:

philly1121 said:

Onto your next MAGA conspiracy theory, eh?

All I can say to you is: no wrongdoing, no wrongdoing, no wrongdoing. You'll just have to cope with it with your warped outlook. You lost this one. Those are facts. Just deal with it.

Onto Romania! And yet another, it was the CIA, US that canceled the election! Eh, not so fast. Romania is a perfect case of - which way should our country go. You do realize that in December 2023, INSCOP did a poll of comparative beliefs of political systems from 2013 to 2023. In the opinion of 48.1% of Romanians, the communist regime was a good thing for Romania (compared to 45.5% in November 2013), while 42.2% are of the opposite opinion (compared to 44.7% in November 2013). 9.7% of those surveyed do not know or do not answer this question (compared to 9.8% in November 2013). You have half the population wanting to go back to communism because the disparities in income/wealth were less with comunism than they are now. Tells you where Romania is when it comes to elections.

Dude from Philly/Arizona or wherever just knows who/what Romanians should vote for.

When they vote wrong, they should have a do-over, as established by the USAID/NED/EU/Soros-appointed local judges, because these people don't know any better, they were obviously brainwashed by some TikTok influencers.
lol when you always lead your arguments with USAID and Soros appointed judges, you lose are credibility. All you see is Soros, Clinton, Pelosi, Schumer, Bill Gates - the unholy alliance of liberalism. lol Blame them all 88 says! They're behind everything! comical

I do research 88. You just blame. You blame the usual suspects with no evidence. Look a bit more closely to what happened in Romania and Moldova. But you won't. So just keep on blaming George Soros. lmao

Biden has just awarded Hillary Clinton the Presidential Medal of Freedom too!
philly1121
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bear2034 said:

philly1121 said:

Cal88 said:

philly1121 said:

Onto your next MAGA conspiracy theory, eh?

All I can say to you is: no wrongdoing, no wrongdoing, no wrongdoing. You'll just have to cope with it with your warped outlook. You lost this one. Those are facts. Just deal with it.

Onto Romania! And yet another, it was the CIA, US that canceled the election! Eh, not so fast. Romania is a perfect case of - which way should our country go. You do realize that in December 2023, INSCOP did a poll of comparative beliefs of political systems from 2013 to 2023. In the opinion of 48.1% of Romanians, the communist regime was a good thing for Romania (compared to 45.5% in November 2013), while 42.2% are of the opposite opinion (compared to 44.7% in November 2013). 9.7% of those surveyed do not know or do not answer this question (compared to 9.8% in November 2013). You have half the population wanting to go back to communism because the disparities in income/wealth were less with comunism than they are now. Tells you where Romania is when it comes to elections.

Dude from Philly/Arizona or wherever just knows who/what Romanians should vote for.

When they vote wrong, they should have a do-over, as established by the USAID/NED/EU/Soros-appointed local judges, because these people don't know any better, they were obviously brainwashed by some TikTok influencers.
lol when you always lead your arguments with USAID and Soros appointed judges, you lose are credibility. All you see is Soros, Clinton, Pelosi, Schumer, Bill Gates - the unholy alliance of liberalism. lol Blame them all 88 says! They're behind everything! comical

I do research 88. You just blame. You blame the usual suspects with no evidence. Look a bit more closely to what happened in Romania and Moldova. But you won't. So just keep on blaming George Soros. lmao

Biden has just awarded Hillary Clinton the Presidential Medal of Freedom too!
Yeah? And Trump awarded the same to Rush Limbaugh. lmao I think Biden awarded better. Presidential decision. Cry harder.
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