sycasey said:

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DiabloWags said:

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AunBear89 said:

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Missing from your statement are the qualifiers "free and fair" before elections.


They are missing because the elections resulting in Orban victories are anything but free and fair. Much like the Ukrainian election you cite as justification for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

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He just might be one of the most IGNORANT people on this board.
And that's saying an awful lot.

Never mind that the ruling party (Orban) controls much of the media and advertising landscape.
And the OSCE took the unusual move of deploying a full-scale mission involving 200 observers to Hungary for the last election.

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This is really the key thing. There's no evidence that Orban directly controlled the vote. There's lots of evidence that he's effectively taken over the country's media and prevented negative coverage of him from getting out.

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There are major pro-neoliberal/EU media outlets in Hungary, the opposition media in Hungary is proportionally bigger than in France. Despite this, Macron's support is only 20% of the French public.

It's a bit paternalistic if not outright ignorant to think that the Hungarian people is stupid enough not to know where their best interests are.

Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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DiabloWags said:

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AunBear89 said:

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Missing from your statement are the qualifiers "free and fair" before elections.


They are missing because the elections resulting in Orban victories are anything but free and fair. Much like the Ukrainian election you cite as justification for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

---

He just might be one of the most IGNORANT people on this board.
And that's saying an awful lot.

Never mind that the ruling party (Orban) controls much of the media and advertising landscape.
And the OSCE took the unusual move of deploying a full-scale mission involving 200 observers to Hungary for the last election.

---

This is really the key thing. There's no evidence that Orban directly controlled the vote. There's lots of evidence that he's effectively taken over the country's media and prevented negative coverage of him from getting out.

---

There are major pro-neoliberal/EU media outlets in Hungary, the opposition media in Hungary is proportionally bigger than in France. Despite this, Macron's support is only 20% of the French public.

It's a bit paternalistic if not outright ignorant to think that the Hungarian people is stupid enough not to know where their best interests are.

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Looks like the most recent polls show Orban's party losing support and even trailing lately, so you might be right.

If there is a country named "Hungary", is there also one named "Thirsaty"? If not, there should be!

Don't you think any breaks Biden got in the media was (and is) more than counter balanced by Fox News, the #1 cable news network, being little more than a PR vehicle for everything Trump?

Does Fox News ever put a negative spin on a Trump story? Fox is loyal to him. They knowingly broadcasted false stories supporting some of Trump's stolen election narrative and paid out $787,000,000 for that honor.

Big C said:

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If there is a country named "Hungary", is there also one named "Thirsaty"? If not, there should be!

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Hungary's #1 export is porn.

BearGoggles said:

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sycasey said:

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DiabloWags said:

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AunBear89 said:

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Missing from your statement are the qualifiers "free and fair" before elections.


They are missing because the elections resulting in Orban victories are anything but free and fair. Much like the Ukrainian election you cite as justification for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

---

He just might be one of the most IGNORANT people on this board.
And that's saying an awful lot.

Never mind that the ruling party (Orban) controls much of the media and advertising landscape.
And the OSCE took the unusual move of deploying a full-scale mission involving 200 observers to Hungary for the last election.

---

This is really the key thing. There's no evidence that Orban directly controlled the vote. There's lots of evidence that he's effectively taken over the country's media and prevented negative coverage of him from getting out.

---

So I have no dog in the Orban fight. I don't know much about him or his country.

That being said, I can't help but point out the irony in your making the bolded statement below. Sounds to me a lot like what Biden and his crew did the last 4 years. They didn't have to "take over" the media because it was already dominated by Biden supporters who then censored (or self censored) on his behalf.

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The Biden administration definitely tried to influence the media (perhaps more than usual), but control it? No, not really. If they did there wouldn't have been so many "Biden is an old man" stories in the last year.

oski003 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Big C said:

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If there is a country named "Hungary", is there also one named "Thirsaty"? If not, there should be!

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Hungary's #1 export is porn.

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Hungary's top export is electrical machinery and equipment. This includes a wide range of electrical components and devices, making it the most significant export category by value.

Key points about Hungary's exports:
Second largest export: Vehicles, like cars, are the second most exported product from Hungary.

Other important exports: Pharmaceuticals and machinery including computers also feature prominently in Hungary's export list.

Get a clue.

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I bet they export all that... but then they import Turkey because they are very Hungary!

bear2034 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearGoggles said:

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sycasey said:

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DiabloWags said:

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AunBear89 said:

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Missing from your statement are the qualifiers "free and fair" before elections.


They are missing because the elections resulting in Orban victories are anything but free and fair. Much like the Ukrainian election you cite as justification for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

---

He just might be one of the most IGNORANT people on this board.
And that's saying an awful lot.

Never mind that the ruling party (Orban) controls much of the media and advertising landscape.
And the OSCE took the unusual move of deploying a full-scale mission involving 200 observers to Hungary for the last election.

---

This is really the key thing. There's no evidence that Orban directly controlled the vote. There's lots of evidence that he's effectively taken over the country's media and prevented negative coverage of him from getting out.

---

So I have no dog in the Orban fight. I don't know much about him or his country.

That being said, I can't help but point out the irony in your making the bolded statement below. Sounds to me a lot like what Biden and his crew did the last 4 years. They didn't have to "take over" the media because it was already dominated by Biden supporters who then censored (or self censored) on his behalf.

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The Biden administration definitely tried to influence the media (perhaps more than usual), but control it? No, not really. If they did there wouldn't have been so many "Biden is an old man" stories in the last year.

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The media collectively flipped on Biden only after his debate with Trump (which was moved early) and went all in to support Kamala.

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Both sides agreed to move that debate, and the "Biden is old" stories existed before that.

BearGoggles said:

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sycasey said:

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bear2034 said:

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sycasey said:

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BearGoggles said:

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sycasey said:

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DiabloWags said:

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AunBear89 said:

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Missing from your statement are the qualifiers "free and fair" before elections.


They are missing because the elections resulting in Orban victories are anything but free and fair. Much like the Ukrainian election you cite as justification for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

---

He just might be one of the most IGNORANT people on this board.
And that's saying an awful lot.

Never mind that the ruling party (Orban) controls much of the media and advertising landscape.
And the OSCE took the unusual move of deploying a full-scale mission involving 200 observers to Hungary for the last election.

---

This is really the key thing. There's no evidence that Orban directly controlled the vote. There's lots of evidence that he's effectively taken over the country's media and prevented negative coverage of him from getting out.

---

So I have no dog in the Orban fight. I don't know much about him or his country.

That being said, I can't help but point out the irony in your making the bolded statement below. Sounds to me a lot like what Biden and his crew did the last 4 years. They didn't have to "take over" the media because it was already dominated by Biden supporters who then censored (or self censored) on his behalf.

---

The Biden administration definitely tried to influence the media (perhaps more than usual), but control it? No, not really. If they did there wouldn't have been so many "Biden is an old man" stories in the last year.

---

The media collectively flipped on Biden only after his debate with Trump (which was moved early) and went all in to support Kamala.

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Both sides agreed to move that debate, and the "Biden is old" stories existed before that.

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The bolded is gaslighting.

Yes the stories "existed" on the margins and when raised, the Biden admin and press were claiming that republicans were spreading misinformation and "deep fakes." Literally the legacy press (NY Times, Wapo, networks) was defending against (and purporting to debunk) any claims that Biden was losing it - right up to the debate. And even some continued after the debate.

Biden's decline was widely known inside dem circles for years - probably dating to the 2020 election when it was apparent to anyone with clear vision. The press didn't report it until AFTER they wanted Biden removed from the ticket. And even then, they didn't demand that Biden resign or be replaced b 25th amendment. Can you imagine what the press would be saying if it was Trump (rather than Biden) who couldn't speak clear, was prone to falling and wandering off, and refused to hold press conferences?

Now that he's out of office some of the details are finally coming to light.

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Look, I know you guys are in a conservative bubble that dedicates itself to whining about The Mainstream Media so anything I say here is going to fall on deaf ears and not be fully provable anyway. But as someone who does pay attention to left-wing political discourse, let me assure you that plenty of people on the left were complaining about the negative coverage of Biden and his age BEFORE the debate happened. I didn't really buy that argument, because (1) he was old and (2) if a President wants to combat the narrative he always has the bully pulpit available to him and Biden wasn't using it, but that discourse was happening and it was happening because stories about Biden's age were out there in mainstream outlets. It all ramped up after the debate, for obvious reasons.

But to return to the original point: whether these stories came out before or after the debate, it's clear that the Biden Administration was NOT able to keep the media narrative favorable to them and thus did not really have "control" over American media in any absolute sense. It's not the same as Orban or Putin or other more authoritarian leaders.

This is what Matt Walsh wants. Yes, they need to get off our teet (i.e. Canada).

movielover said:

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This is what Matt Walsh wants.

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So there are parts of his position you do not agree with?

oski003 said:

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bearister said:

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Don't you think any breaks Biden got in the media was (and is) more than counter balanced by Fox News, the #1 cable news network, being little more than a PR vehicle for everything Trump?

Does Fox News ever put a negative spin on a Trump story? Fox is loyal to him. They knowingly broadcasted false stories supporting some of Trump's stolen election narrative and paid out $787,000,000 for that honor.

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Not quite Fox figures, but Facebook just paid Trump 25 million.

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Sorry, I was $500,000 light.

Fox, Dominion reach $787.5M settlement over false election claims | AP News


https://apnews.com/article/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit-trial-trump-2020-0ac71f75acfacc52ea80b3e747fb0afe

Zuckerberg was just contributing to the techno-oligarch payola fund. Trump's lawsuit, like every lawsuit he files, is without merit.

sycasey said:

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I will thank Matt Walsh here for being honest about what the right REALLY wants here.

Countries that cannot function without US foreign aid should simply not exist. You have no right to exist as a nation if your existence depends on forced donations from the citizens of another country. Take away all foreign aid permanently and let the chips fall where they may.

— Matt Walsh (@MattWalshBlog) January 29, 2025

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Matt Walsh speaks for the right? I don't think so. He doesn't even speak for the Daily Wire where his view is not universal.

If I pulled a random tweet from Cori Bush and said "at least she's being honest about what the left REALLY" thinks (in the case below, defunding the pentagon), would you find that to be credible or in good faith? Or just an excuse to attack the left?

If you're having a bad day, just think of all the social services we're going to fund after we defund the Pentagon.

— Cori Bush (@CoriBush) October 20, 2020

BearGoggles said:

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sycasey said:

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I will thank Matt Walsh here for being honest about what the right REALLY wants here.

Countries that cannot function without US foreign aid should simply not exist. You have no right to exist as a nation if your existence depends on forced donations from the citizens of another country. Take away all foreign aid permanently and let the chips fall where they may.

— Matt Walsh (@MattWalshBlog) January 29, 2025

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Matt Walsh speaks for the right? I don't think so. He doesn't even speak for the Daily Wire where his view is not universal.

If I pulled a random tweet from Cori Bush and said "at least she's being honest about what the left REALLY" thinks (in the case below, defunding the pentagon), would you find that to be credible or in good faith? Or just an excuse to attack the left?

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My understanding from the many Twitter links posted here is that one weird "lib" (on TikTok, let's say) obviously proves that the whole left is insane. Does this logic not also work in reverse?

Anyway, if some of the Trump fans here did not agree with Walsh's take, I'd be happy to hear why.

sycasey said:

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BearGoggles said:

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sycasey said:

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I will thank Matt Walsh here for being honest about what the right REALLY wants here.

Countries that cannot function without US foreign aid should simply not exist. You have no right to exist as a nation if your existence depends on forced donations from the citizens of another country. Take away all foreign aid permanently and let the chips fall where they may.

— Matt Walsh (@MattWalshBlog) January 29, 2025

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Matt Walsh speaks for the right? I don't think so. He doesn't even speak for the Daily Wire where his view is not universal.

If I pulled a random tweet from Cori Bush and said "at least she's being honest about what the left REALLY" thinks (in the case below, defunding the pentagon), would you find that to be credible or in good faith? Or just an excuse to attack the left?

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My understanding from the many Twitter links posted here is that one weird "lib" (on TikTok, let's say) obviously proves that the whole left is insane. Does this logic not also work in reverse?

Anyway, if some of the Trump fans here did not agree with Walsh's take, I'd be happy to hear why.

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As Bill O'Reilly used to say (in hindsight quite ironically), you don't justify bad behavior with other bad behavior. If you disagree with the alleged posting of Tik Tok videos to impugn the left, then why would you engage in that same bad behavior? You have become what you hate.

More substantively, I disagree with Matt Walsh. While I think a lot of aid is wasteful, a lot is money well spent. His take ignores the USA's interest in ensuring that its allies or key countries are not invaded/intimidated/taken over by hostile countries. For example, if Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel, and lots of other countries were taken over by extremist Shia Muslims or fell under the influence of China, that would be really bad for the western world. Generally, aid to those countries returns a lot to the US, though no doubt some is wasteful.

The problem is that the USA does a poor job of defining which countries fall in that category and then spends a lot of money at the UN and other NGOs that are openly hostile to the USA's interest. I don't know that Ukraine falls in that category and even if it does, there has been literally no oversight as to how US aid has been spent - we know corruption is rampant in that country. We also give aid to countries with no expectation of those countries cooperating on key US interest (e.g., Columbia thinking it could refuse to accept a return of its citizens). That is stupid.

Doesn't China have significant pull now in the Panama - the Canal, and American ports?