The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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Cal88
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In reply to BearGoggles • 6:00p, 7/27/25
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
^I agree about the Abraham Accords not being a source of regional stability as they fail to address the fundamental issue of Palestine.


The Abraham accords did address (and redress) the fundamental source of regional instability - they are/were essentially an alliance against Iran. The fact that you think "Palestine" is the fundamental issue is pretty humorous, as the Abraham accords were, literally, a rejection of that prior premise.

The surrounding Arab countries don't really care about the Palestinians other than to use them if/when it provides a political advantage. If they did really care, they would be accepting Palestinian refugees and working harder to remove Hamas.


What constitutes humor for you here is the pretty sick notion that Palestine doesn't exist and that its original inhabitants should be thrown out from their own country.

Unfortunately that is pretty much the foundation of zionism, and what we've been seeing in the incredibly violent ongoing ethnic cleansing of Gaza, the elimination of Palestine, which as you have implied above is part of the Abraham Accords.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 6:32p, 7/27/25
sycasey said:
I wonder, might a young woman from France or the US be giving up some other rights or freedoms in moving to Russia or the UAE? No tradeoffs there?


10 or 20 years ago, that might have been debatable, but in France today and most other western European democracies, rights and freedoms are constantly infringed upon, sometimes in pretty violent ways.





For that young French blogger above, the freedom she has gained by moving to Russia is to be able to walk outside alone at any time without fear or being harassed, or worse. That is a freedom she did not have while living in Paris and Montpellier.

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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:22p, 7/27/25
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
I wonder, might a young woman from France or the US be giving up some other rights or freedoms in moving to Russia or the UAE? No tradeoffs there?


10 or 20 years ago, that might have been debatable, but in France today and most other western European democracies, rights and freedoms are constantly infringed upon, sometimes in pretty violent ways.





For that young French blogger above, the freedom she has gained by moving to Russia is to be able to walk outside alone at any time without fear or being harassed, or worse. That is a freedom she did not have while living in Paris and Montpellier.


So your argument is that Russia and the Muslim Arab states are more free.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 7:54p, 7/27/25
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
I wonder, might a young woman from France or the US be giving up some other rights or freedoms in moving to Russia or the UAE? No tradeoffs there?


10 or 20 years ago, that might have been debatable, but in France today and most other western European democracies, rights and freedoms are constantly infringed upon, sometimes in pretty violent ways.





For that young French blogger above, the freedom she has gained by moving to Russia is to be able to walk outside alone at any time without fear or being harassed, or worse. That is a freedom she did not have while living in Paris and Montpellier.


So your argument is that Russia and the Muslim Arab states are more free.



Gabrielle, the French blogger who has moved to Russia did say she felt a lot more free in Russia than in France. Freedom of speech is indeed limited in Russia, but she was a whole lot more concerned about the freedom for a young woman to go about her daily life without being aggressed. As such, she values that fundamental freedom that Russia gives her.

As well, as I've mentioned above, freedom of speech is no longer a given in most western countries today, there isn't that much difference with Russia today. Furthermore, Russians aren't on the streets protesting as they do in France because poverty has been going down in Russia, while it is getting worse in France. Russia today is the best it has been in well over a century. Granted they have had a rotten 20th century, but the great majority of Russians are grateful for the economic and social stability and growth the country has been experiencing this century.

WRT Dubai/UAE, you do have greater freedom as a young woman there in feeling safe everywhere. The other aspect not mentioned here is economic freedom, which is greater in the UAE than in western Europe. Of course Dubai is not a great place to be for free speech, but for the huge expat population that lives there and has voted with their feet, they value these other freedoms more.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 8:30p, 7/27/25
Freedom, or safety?

They're safe, can walk the streets, not get mugged or knifed in a cell phone heist (London), not get harrassed or followed every block (western EU big cities), not get raped by a cab driver (UK), or savagely raped by 4 or 14 in a now common occurrence.
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 8:52p, 7/27/25
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
I wonder, might a young woman from France or the US be giving up some other rights or freedoms in moving to Russia or the UAE? No tradeoffs there?


10 or 20 years ago, that might have been debatable, but in France today and most other western European democracies, rights and freedoms are constantly infringed upon, sometimes in pretty violent ways.





For that young French blogger above, the freedom she has gained by moving to Russia is to be able to walk outside alone at any time without fear or being harassed, or worse. That is a freedom she did not have while living in Paris and Montpellier.


So your argument is that Russia and the Muslim Arab states are more free.



Gabrielle, the French blogger who has moved to Russia did say she felt a lot more free in Russia than in France. Freedom of speech is indeed limited in Russia, but she was a whole lot more concerned about the freedom for a young woman to go about her daily life without being aggressed. As such, she values that fundamental freedom that Russia gives her.

As well, as I've mentioned above, freedom of speech is no longer a given in most western countries today, there isn't that much difference with Russia today. Furthermore, Russians aren't on the streets protesting as they do in France because poverty has been going down in Russia, while it is getting worse in France. Russia today is the best it has been in well over a century. Granted they have had a rotten 20th century, but the great majority of Russians are grateful for the economic and social stability and growth the country has been experiencing this century.

WRT Dubai/UAE, you do have greater freedom as a young woman there in feeling safe everywhere. The other aspect not mentioned here is economic freedom, which is greater in the UAE than in western Europe. Of course Dubai is not a great place to be for free speech, but for the huge expat population that lives there and has voted with their feet, they value these other freedoms more.

Very well, we know where you stand.
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BearGoggles
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In reply to Cal88 • 10:02p, 7/27/25
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
^I agree about the Abraham Accords not being a source of regional stability as they fail to address the fundamental issue of Palestine.


The Abraham accords did address (and redress) the fundamental source of regional instability - they are/were essentially an alliance against Iran. The fact that you think "Palestine" is the fundamental issue is pretty humorous, as the Abraham accords were, literally, a rejection of that prior premise.

The surrounding Arab countries don't really care about the Palestinians other than to use them if/when it provides a political advantage. If they did really care, they would be accepting Palestinian refugees and working harder to remove Hamas.


What constitutes humor for you here is the pretty sick notion that Palestine doesn't exist and that its original inhabitants should be thrown out from their own country.

Unfortunately that is pretty much the foundation of zionism, and what we've been seeing in the incredibly violent ongoing ethnic cleansing of Gaza, the elimination of Palestine, which as you have implied above is part of the Abraham Accords.

Can you read? I wrote that thinking Palestine is the fundamental issue was humorous - because it reveals how misguided and delusional you are. I said nothing about whether Palestine "exists".

To that point, if you want Palestine to exist and the suffering in Gaza to end, you would be advocating for Hamas to surrender and the return of the hostages. But you don't. So it seems pretty clear you have no desire to see a lasting peace, a two state solution, and/or a better life for Palestinians. Your way of thinking (with the false claims of genocide, absurd claims of "original inhabitants", and denial of Palestinian agency) is big part of the problem.
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Cal88
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In reply to BearGoggles • 4:52a, 7/28/25
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
^I agree about the Abraham Accords not being a source of regional stability as they fail to address the fundamental issue of Palestine.


The Abraham accords did address (and redress) the fundamental source of regional instability - they are/were essentially an alliance against Iran. The fact that you think "Palestine" is the fundamental issue is pretty humorous, as the Abraham accords were, literally, a rejection of that prior premise.

The surrounding Arab countries don't really care about the Palestinians other than to use them if/when it provides a political advantage. If they did really care, they would be accepting Palestinian refugees and working harder to remove Hamas.


What constitutes humor for you here is the pretty sick notion that Palestine doesn't exist and that its original inhabitants should be thrown out from their own country.

Unfortunately that is pretty much the foundation of zionism, and what we've been seeing in the incredibly violent ongoing ethnic cleansing of Gaza, the elimination of Palestine, which as you have implied above is part of the Abraham Accords.

Can you read? I wrote that thinking Palestine is the fundamental issue was humorous - because it reveals how misguided and delusional you are. I said nothing about whether Palestine "exists".

To that point, if you want Palestine to exist and the suffering in Gaza to end, you would be advocating for Hamas to surrender and the return of the hostages. But you don't. So it seems pretty clear you have no desire to see a lasting peace, a two state solution, and/or a better life for Palestinians. Your way of thinking (with the false claims of genocide, absurd claims of "original inhabitants", and denial of Palestinian agency) is big part of the problem.



Bibi and co don't give a crap about the hostages, they have killed hundreds of Israelis on October 7 and since. They are being used as a pretext to conduct their genocide in Gaza.

Israel doesn't want a 2 state solution, and you know it. Coming from a guy who denies that the Palestinians are the original inhabitants of Palestine, that level of obfuscation is expected.
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Cal88
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8:23a, 7/28/25
Trump reverting to forever war not only in the middle east but also in Ukraine.

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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 10:01a, 7/28/25
Except we don't have much left to give Ukraine. A handful of Patriot missiles, 200% Tariff on minimal trade activity?

Russian military picking up the pace, Kiev the final battle?
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BearGoggles
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In reply to Cal88 • 10:06a, 7/28/25
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
^I agree about the Abraham Accords not being a source of regional stability as they fail to address the fundamental issue of Palestine.


The Abraham accords did address (and redress) the fundamental source of regional instability - they are/were essentially an alliance against Iran. The fact that you think "Palestine" is the fundamental issue is pretty humorous, as the Abraham accords were, literally, a rejection of that prior premise.

The surrounding Arab countries don't really care about the Palestinians other than to use them if/when it provides a political advantage. If they did really care, they would be accepting Palestinian refugees and working harder to remove Hamas.


What constitutes humor for you here is the pretty sick notion that Palestine doesn't exist and that its original inhabitants should be thrown out from their own country.

Unfortunately that is pretty much the foundation of zionism, and what we've been seeing in the incredibly violent ongoing ethnic cleansing of Gaza, the elimination of Palestine, which as you have implied above is part of the Abraham Accords.

Can you read? I wrote that thinking Palestine is the fundamental issue was humorous - because it reveals how misguided and delusional you are. I said nothing about whether Palestine "exists".

To that point, if you want Palestine to exist and the suffering in Gaza to end, you would be advocating for Hamas to surrender and the return of the hostages. But you don't. So it seems pretty clear you have no desire to see a lasting peace, a two state solution, and/or a better life for Palestinians. Your way of thinking (with the false claims of genocide, absurd claims of "original inhabitants", and denial of Palestinian agency) is big part of the problem.



Bibi and co don't give a crap about the hostages, they have killed hundreds of Israelis on October 7 and since. They are being used as a pretext to conduct their genocide in Gaza.

Israel doesn't want a 2 state solution, and you know it. Coming from a guy who denies that the Palestinians are the original inhabitants of Palestine, that level of obfuscation is expected.

Again, you display a basic lack of reading comprehension. I said absurd claims about original inhabitants. Those claims are absurd because they are meaningless and unproductive. Jews can trace their existence in Israel back over 3,000 years - they were refugees thousands of years before 1948. Both groups have a history in the area and to suggest that the current dispute (and resolution thereof) is tied to "who was there first" is idiotic. If that were the correct paradigm, Native Americans would be returned to power and all arabs/muslims would be removed from Europe. The world doesn't work that way.

Do you support a two state solution, where Israel is an independent Jewish state and Palestinians have an independent country? I support that as the ultimate goal. I don't believe you do.

The majority of Israelis would support that (even if Bibi might not), though many do not feel it is possible in the current environment where Hamas and other radicals hold sway.

So now I'm waiting for two things from you:

1. Do you support a two state solution, where Israel is an independent Jewish state and Palestinians have an independent country?

2. What are the names of the "thousands" of Palestinian "hostages" and what were the circumstances of their "abduction."

You make a lot of false and exaggerated claims, but never respond with actual facts and details.









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movielover
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10:08a, 7/28/25
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Cal88
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In reply to BearGoggles • 11:17a, 7/28/25
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
^I agree about the Abraham Accords not being a source of regional stability as they fail to address the fundamental issue of Palestine.


The Abraham accords did address (and redress) the fundamental source of regional instability - they are/were essentially an alliance against Iran. The fact that you think "Palestine" is the fundamental issue is pretty humorous, as the Abraham accords were, literally, a rejection of that prior premise.

The surrounding Arab countries don't really care about the Palestinians other than to use them if/when it provides a political advantage. If they did really care, they would be accepting Palestinian refugees and working harder to remove Hamas.


What constitutes humor for you here is the pretty sick notion that Palestine doesn't exist and that its original inhabitants should be thrown out from their own country.

Unfortunately that is pretty much the foundation of zionism, and what we've been seeing in the incredibly violent ongoing ethnic cleansing of Gaza, the elimination of Palestine, which as you have implied above is part of the Abraham Accords.

Can you read? I wrote that thinking Palestine is the fundamental issue was humorous - because it reveals how misguided and delusional you are. I said nothing about whether Palestine "exists".

To that point, if you want Palestine to exist and the suffering in Gaza to end, you would be advocating for Hamas to surrender and the return of the hostages. But you don't. So it seems pretty clear you have no desire to see a lasting peace, a two state solution, and/or a better life for Palestinians. Your way of thinking (with the false claims of genocide, absurd claims of "original inhabitants", and denial of Palestinian agency) is big part of the problem.



Bibi and co don't give a crap about the hostages, they have killed hundreds of Israelis on October 7 and since. They are being used as a pretext to conduct their genocide in Gaza.

Israel doesn't want a 2 state solution, and you know it. Coming from a guy who denies that the Palestinians are the original inhabitants of Palestine, that level of obfuscation is expected.

Again, you display a basic lack of reading comprehension. I said absurd claims about original inhabitants. Those claims are absurd because they are meaningless and unproductive. Jews can trace their existence in Israel back over 3,000 years - they were refugees thousands of years before 1948. Both groups have a history in the area and to suggest that the current dispute (and resolution thereof) is tied to "who was there first" is idiotic. If that were the correct paradigm, Native Americans would be returned to power and all arabs/muslims would be removed from Europe. The world doesn't work that way.



By your logic, Arabs will have a claim on Spain, not today but in the year 3,500, because they occupied Spain for 700 years two millennia ago. This is how twisted and absurd your brand of logic is. The irony is that most Ashkenazis aren't even descendants of the original Hebrews who lived in Palestine 2,000 years ago.

You have to be completely brainwashed to buy into the zionist narrative. Thankfully today only the more gaslit Boomers and more gullible right wingers do, you are losing the plot as the world is witnessing the incredible level of savagery displayed by the Israeli in the conduct of this genocide.


Quote:

Do you support a two state solution, where Israel is an independent Jewish state and Palestinians have an independent country? I support that as the ultimate goal. I don't believe you do.

The majority of Israelis would support that (even if Bibi might not), though many do not feel it is possible in the current environment where Hamas and other radicals hold sway.

So now I'm waiting for two things from you:

1. Do you support a two state solution, where Israel is an independent Jewish state and Palestinians have an independent country?



The Israeli parliament voted this month to annex the entirety of the West Bank, by a vote of 71 to 13, reflecting the fact that the great majority of Israelis don't want a two state solution. I don't believe you do want a 2-state solution either, because you were lying about that basic fact, I seriously doubt you didn't know about that vote.



I would be in favor of the 2 state solution along the 1967 borders, as do most Palestinians and most of the world. Personally I think they should go back to the 1948 borders, but as the saying goes, you can't be more Catholic than the Pope,


Quote:
2. What are the names of the "thousands" of Palestinian "hostages" and what were the circumstances of their "abduction."






Israeli Jewish human rights group documents these arbitrary Israeli arrests
https://hamoked.org/

16.01.2023|Reports|HaMoked Report
On Flimsy Grounds: Israel's Pervasive Night Arrests of Palestinian Children
https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Documents4891

07.11.2024|Reports|HaMoked Report
Unaccounted For: Disappearance of Gaza Palestinians After They Were in the Custody of Israeli Security Forces
https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Documents5152

There is evidence of systematic torture and rape of these abducted Palestinian children in Israeli jail.

Those are the findings of an Israeli Jewish NGO, PCATI
Quote:
The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel (PCATI; Hebrew: ) is an Israeli NGO established in 1990 that monitors the use of torture and ill-treatment by Israeli security services against Palestinians under detention.






Now my turn to question you.

1- Do you deny the existence of widespread systematic torture of Palestinian detainees in Israeli jails, as widely documented by Israeli and western NGOs?

2- Do you deny that Israel is ethnically cleansing Gaza, and indiscriminately killing tens of thousands of Gazans, while also starving them?




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BearGoggles
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In reply to Cal88 • 11:22a, 7/28/25
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
^I agree about the Abraham Accords not being a source of regional stability as they fail to address the fundamental issue of Palestine.


The Abraham accords did address (and redress) the fundamental source of regional instability - they are/were essentially an alliance against Iran. The fact that you think "Palestine" is the fundamental issue is pretty humorous, as the Abraham accords were, literally, a rejection of that prior premise.

The surrounding Arab countries don't really care about the Palestinians other than to use them if/when it provides a political advantage. If they did really care, they would be accepting Palestinian refugees and working harder to remove Hamas.


What constitutes humor for you here is the pretty sick notion that Palestine doesn't exist and that its original inhabitants should be thrown out from their own country.

Unfortunately that is pretty much the foundation of zionism, and what we've been seeing in the incredibly violent ongoing ethnic cleansing of Gaza, the elimination of Palestine, which as you have implied above is part of the Abraham Accords.

Can you read? I wrote that thinking Palestine is the fundamental issue was humorous - because it reveals how misguided and delusional you are. I said nothing about whether Palestine "exists".

To that point, if you want Palestine to exist and the suffering in Gaza to end, you would be advocating for Hamas to surrender and the return of the hostages. But you don't. So it seems pretty clear you have no desire to see a lasting peace, a two state solution, and/or a better life for Palestinians. Your way of thinking (with the false claims of genocide, absurd claims of "original inhabitants", and denial of Palestinian agency) is big part of the problem.



Bibi and co don't give a crap about the hostages, they have killed hundreds of Israelis on October 7 and since. They are being used as a pretext to conduct their genocide in Gaza.

Israel doesn't want a 2 state solution, and you know it. Coming from a guy who denies that the Palestinians are the original inhabitants of Palestine, that level of obfuscation is expected.

Again, you display a basic lack of reading comprehension. I said absurd claims about original inhabitants. Those claims are absurd because they are meaningless and unproductive. Jews can trace their existence in Israel back over 3,000 years - they were refugees thousands of years before 1948. Both groups have a history in the area and to suggest that the current dispute (and resolution thereof) is tied to "who was there first" is idiotic. If that were the correct paradigm, Native Americans would be returned to power and all arabs/muslims would be removed from Europe. The world doesn't work that way.



By your logic, Arabs will have a claim on Spain, not today but in the year 3,500, because they occupied Spain for 700 years two millennia ago. This is how twisted and absurd your brand of logic is. The irony is that most Ashkenazis aren't even descendants of the original Hebrews who lived in Palestine 2,000 years ago.

You have to be completely brainwashed to buy into the zionist narrative. Thankfully today only the more gaslit Boomers and more gullible right wingers do, you are losing the plot as the world is witnessing the incredible level of savagery displayed by the Israeli in the conduct of this genocide.


Quote:

Do you support a two state solution, where Israel is an independent Jewish state and Palestinians have an independent country? I support that as the ultimate goal. I don't believe you do.

The majority of Israelis would support that (even if Bibi might not), though many do not feel it is possible in the current environment where Hamas and other radicals hold sway.

So now I'm waiting for two things from you:

1. Do you support a two state solution, where Israel is an independent Jewish state and Palestinians have an independent country?



The Israeli parliament voted this month to annex the entirety of the West Bank, by a vote of 71 to 13, reflecting the fact that the great majority of Israelis don't want a two state solution. I don't believe you do want a 2-state solution either, because you were lying about that basic fact, I seriously doubt you didn't know about that vote.



I would be in favor of the 2 state solution along the 1967 borders, as do most Palestinians and most of the world. Personally I think they should go back to the 1948 borders, but as the saying goes, you can't be more Catholic than the Pope,


Quote:
2. What are the names of the "thousands" of Palestinian "hostages" and what were the circumstances of their "abduction."






Israeli Jewish human rights group documents these arbitrary Israeli arrests
https://hamoked.org/

16.01.2023|Reports|HaMoked Report
On Flimsy Grounds: Israel's Pervasive Night Arrests of Palestinian Children
https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Documents4891

07.11.2024|Reports|HaMoked Report
Unaccounted For: Disappearance of Gaza Palestinians After They Were in the Custody of Israeli Security Forces
https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Documents5152

There is evidence of systematic torture and rape of these abducted Palestinian children in Israeli jail.

Those are the findings of an Israeli Jewish NGO, PCATI
Quote:
The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel (PCATI; Hebrew: ) is an Israeli NGO established in 1990 that monitors the use of torture and ill-treatment by Israeli security services against Palestinians under detention.






Now my turn to question you.

1- Do you deny the existence of widespread systematic torture of Palestinian detainees in Israeli jails, as widely documented by Israeli and western NGOs?

2- Do you deny that Israel is ethnically cleansing Gaza, and indiscriminately killing tens of thousands of Gazans, while also starving them?





You didn't answer my questions:

1. Do you support a two state solution, where Israel is an independent Jewish state and Palestinians have an independent country?

2. What are the names of the "thousands" of Palestinian "hostages" and what were the circumstances of their "abduction."

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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 11:33a, 7/28/25
Israel has had to have lost the moral high ground with many.
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movielover
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11:45a, 7/28/25
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Cal88
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In reply to BearGoggles • 11:49a, 7/28/25
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
^I agree about the Abraham Accords not being a source of regional stability as they fail to address the fundamental issue of Palestine.


The Abraham accords did address (and redress) the fundamental source of regional instability - they are/were essentially an alliance against Iran. The fact that you think "Palestine" is the fundamental issue is pretty humorous, as the Abraham accords were, literally, a rejection of that prior premise.

The surrounding Arab countries don't really care about the Palestinians other than to use them if/when it provides a political advantage. If they did really care, they would be accepting Palestinian refugees and working harder to remove Hamas.


What constitutes humor for you here is the pretty sick notion that Palestine doesn't exist and that its original inhabitants should be thrown out from their own country.

Unfortunately that is pretty much the foundation of zionism, and what we've been seeing in the incredibly violent ongoing ethnic cleansing of Gaza, the elimination of Palestine, which as you have implied above is part of the Abraham Accords.

Can you read? I wrote that thinking Palestine is the fundamental issue was humorous - because it reveals how misguided and delusional you are. I said nothing about whether Palestine "exists".

To that point, if you want Palestine to exist and the suffering in Gaza to end, you would be advocating for Hamas to surrender and the return of the hostages. But you don't. So it seems pretty clear you have no desire to see a lasting peace, a two state solution, and/or a better life for Palestinians. Your way of thinking (with the false claims of genocide, absurd claims of "original inhabitants", and denial of Palestinian agency) is big part of the problem.



Bibi and co don't give a crap about the hostages, they have killed hundreds of Israelis on October 7 and since. They are being used as a pretext to conduct their genocide in Gaza.

Israel doesn't want a 2 state solution, and you know it. Coming from a guy who denies that the Palestinians are the original inhabitants of Palestine, that level of obfuscation is expected.

Again, you display a basic lack of reading comprehension. I said absurd claims about original inhabitants. Those claims are absurd because they are meaningless and unproductive. Jews can trace their existence in Israel back over 3,000 years - they were refugees thousands of years before 1948. Both groups have a history in the area and to suggest that the current dispute (and resolution thereof) is tied to "who was there first" is idiotic. If that were the correct paradigm, Native Americans would be returned to power and all arabs/muslims would be removed from Europe. The world doesn't work that way.



By your logic, Arabs will have a claim on Spain, not today but in the year 3,500, because they occupied Spain for 700 years two millennia ago. This is how twisted and absurd your brand of logic is. The irony is that most Ashkenazis aren't even descendants of the original Hebrews who lived in Palestine 2,000 years ago.

You have to be completely brainwashed to buy into the zionist narrative. Thankfully today only the more gaslit Boomers and more gullible right wingers do, you are losing the plot as the world is witnessing the incredible level of savagery displayed by the Israeli in the conduct of this genocide.


Quote:

Do you support a two state solution, where Israel is an independent Jewish state and Palestinians have an independent country? I support that as the ultimate goal. I don't believe you do.

The majority of Israelis would support that (even if Bibi might not), though many do not feel it is possible in the current environment where Hamas and other radicals hold sway.

So now I'm waiting for two things from you:

1. Do you support a two state solution, where Israel is an independent Jewish state and Palestinians have an independent country?



The Israeli parliament voted this month to annex the entirety of the West Bank, by a vote of 71 to 13, reflecting the fact that the great majority of Israelis don't want a two state solution. I don't believe you do want a 2-state solution either, because you were lying about that basic fact, I seriously doubt you didn't know about that vote.



I would be in favor of the 2 state solution along the 1967 borders, as do most Palestinians and most of the world. Personally I think they should go back to the 1948 borders, but as the saying goes, you can't be more Catholic than the Pope,


Quote:
2. What are the names of the "thousands" of Palestinian "hostages" and what were the circumstances of their "abduction."






Israeli Jewish human rights group documents these arbitrary Israeli arrests
https://hamoked.org/

16.01.2023|Reports|HaMoked Report
On Flimsy Grounds: Israel's Pervasive Night Arrests of Palestinian Children
https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Documents4891

07.11.2024|Reports|HaMoked Report
Unaccounted For: Disappearance of Gaza Palestinians After They Were in the Custody of Israeli Security Forces
https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Documents5152

There is evidence of systematic torture and rape of these abducted Palestinian children in Israeli jail.

Those are the findings of an Israeli Jewish NGO, PCATI
Quote:
The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel (PCATI; Hebrew: ) is an Israeli NGO established in 1990 that monitors the use of torture and ill-treatment by Israeli security services against Palestinians under detention.






Now my turn to question you.

1- Do you deny the existence of widespread systematic torture of Palestinian detainees in Israeli jails, as widely documented by Israeli and western NGOs?

2- Do you deny that Israel is ethnically cleansing Gaza, and indiscriminately killing tens of thousands of Gazans, while also starving them?





You didn't answer my questions:

1. Do you support a two state solution, where Israel is an independent Jewish state and Palestinians have an independent country?

2. What are the names of the "thousands" of Palestinian "hostages" and what were the circumstances of their "abduction."



Thanks for confirming for the nth time that you're a disingenuous propagandist. I've already answered your 2-state solution above. 2 state solution implies that one state is an independent Jewish state.

For the names and circumstances of the arrest of the 9,000-10,000 Palestinians, you can address your query to these NGOs posted above, or read one of the dozens of reports they have published that document the extent of the Israeli arbitrary detention and torture network :

https://hamoked.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Committee_Against_Torture_in_Israel


Now my turn to question you, asking you one more time.

1- Do you deny the existence of widespread systematic torture of Palestinian detainees in Israeli jails, as widely documented by Israeli and western NGOs?

2- Do you deny that Israel is ethnically cleansing Gaza, and indiscriminately killing tens of thousands of Gazans, while also starving them?

3- Do you deny that Israel is committing genocide in Palestine?








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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to movielover • 9:19p, 7/28/25
movielover said:

If I get my bathroom remodeled, will Poso do the grouting?
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movielover
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5:15p, 7/29/25
Zelensky facing blowback after trying to end two anti corruption agencies. Everyone knows the score in Europe.

Conservative Treehouse: "Everywhere you travel in Europe the one constant amid the ordinary working-class is their knowledge that Ukraine is a bastion of political corruption. The summer coastline of Europe is full of Ukrainian govt officials and very wealthy Ukranian businessmen spending money, a lot of money, that everyone knows is coming from USA and European subsidy.

"Visible Ukraine corruption is a joke amid those who cannot afford pretending and those in the service industries in the vacation resorts all along the European coast.

"Making it all worse, is the in-your-face aspect of it very visible from the Ukrainians staying in luxury hotels, villas and opulent residences while sneering through their designer sunglasses. "Meh, or she, is Ukrainian," is the simple response to the rudeness when noted."
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movielover
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5:39p, 7/29/25
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DiabloWags
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8:48a, 7/30/25
Ukraine morale reportedly skyrocketing after Trump's change in tone towards Putin.
And more arms shipments.

Even Melania chimed in to her husband about how Putin has "wonderful" conversations with him, but then bombs the hell out of Ukraine.

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sycasey
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In reply to DiabloWags • 8:50a, 7/30/25
DiabloWags said:
Ukraine morale reportedly skyrocketing after Trump's change in tone towards Putin.
And more arms shipments.

Even Melania chimed in to her husband about how Putin has "wonderful" conversations with him, but then bombs the hell out of Ukraine.


Maybe Trump will eventually understand the truth: that both Putin and Netanyahu will blow smoke up his a** but not actually do anything to end their wars. Been this way for a while.
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DiabloWags
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In reply to sycasey • 9:12a, 7/30/25
sycasey said:
DiabloWags said:
Ukraine morale reportedly skyrocketing after Trump's change in tone towards Putin.
And more arms shipments.

Even Melania chimed in to her husband about how Putin has "wonderful" conversations with him, but then bombs the hell out of Ukraine.


Maybe Trump will eventually understand the truth: that both Putin and Netanyahu will blow smoke up his a** but not actually do anything to end their wars. Been this way for a while.


He's as gullible as Movielover.
That's not what you want out of a Commander in Chief.

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movielover
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In reply to DiabloWags • 9:30a, 7/30/25
Biden, Blinken, Austin, London and NATO started this war, and nobody was talking peace for three years.

President Trump has said we have to stop the carnage.

Zelensy and his corrupt crew want it to continue, so does NATO, London, and the EU. Putin is pasting them, the winner was known two years ago.

POTUS has secured six cease fires where there is some rationality remaining.

Biden, Blinken, Austin, Sullivan: dumb as rocks, corrupt, or both.
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Cal88
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In reply to movielover • 10:07a, 7/30/25
Agreed, NATO and much of the current EU/NATO leadership (Starmer and Merz esp.) are ideologically committed to the Ukraine war, zero realism or pragmatism, and no regard for Ukrainian life. Putin would have settled for the current borders, but these leaders won't even concede Crimea to Russia, a complete non-starter. Crimeans are Russian, officially so since 2014, and they don't want to be ruled by Kiev, which doesn't even recognize their native language as official. Think about this...

So as a result, the war is going to go on, and Ukraine stands to lose most if not all its Russophone provinces, along with several hundred thousands more casualties. To what end??
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sycasey
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In reply to movielover • 11:02a, 7/30/25
movielover said:
Zelensky facing blowback after trying to end two anti corruption agencies. Everyone knows the score in Europe.

So the irony of this protest is that it shows the original Maidan revolution protests were real and not just a creation of the CIA or whatever. People in Ukraine are dead serious about stopping the corruption in their government (including by Russia) and will take to the streets over it.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 11:37a, 7/30/25
The Maidan protests had armed far right militias


AI Overview

Yes, it's accurate to say that far-right militias played a role in the Maidan protests and the subsequent events in Ukraine. While the protests were initially peaceful and broad-based, groups like Right Sector and Svoboda, known for their far-right ideologies and paramilitary capabilities, became increasingly involved, particularly in the more violent confrontations.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
  • Initial Peaceful Protests:
    The Maidan protests began in November 2013 as a response to then-President Yanukovych's decision to reject a trade agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties with Russia.
  • Far-Right Involvement:
    As the protests continued, far-right groups like Right Sector and Svoboda emerged as active participants, often playing a role in violent clashes with police and government forces.
  • Right Sector's Role:
    Right Sector, an umbrella organization of far-right groups, was particularly prominent, engaging in street battles and even attempting to storm government buildings.
  • Violence and Clashes:
    These groups were involved in violent confrontations with the police, including attempts to storm the presidential administration and the parliament.
  • Overthrow of Yanukovych:
    The Right Sector and Svoboda are also implicated in the violent overthrow of President Yanukovych, particularly during the "Maidan massacre" where protesters and police were killed.
  • Minority but Influential:
    While far-right groups were a minority among the overall protest movement, their influence on the direction of the protests and the level of violence was significant.
  • Post-Protest Impact:
    The far-right's presence and influence continued after Yanukovych's ouster, with some groups gaining positions in law enforcement and forming affiliated armed units.
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 2:05p, 7/30/25
Cal88 said:
The Maidan protests had armed far right militias


AI Overview

Yes, it's accurate to say that far-right militias played a role in the Maidan protests and the subsequent events in Ukraine. While the protests were initially peaceful and broad-based, groups like Right Sector and Svoboda, known for their far-right ideologies and paramilitary capabilities, became increasingly involved, particularly in the more violent confrontations.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
  • Initial Peaceful Protests:
    The Maidan protests began in November 2013 as a response to then-President Yanukovych's decision to reject a trade agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties with Russia.
  • Far-Right Involvement:
    As the protests continued, far-right groups like Right Sector and Svoboda emerged as active participants, often playing a role in violent clashes with police and government forces.
  • Right Sector's Role:
    Right Sector, an umbrella organization of far-right groups, was particularly prominent, engaging in street battles and even attempting to storm government buildings.
  • Violence and Clashes:
    These groups were involved in violent confrontations with the police, including attempts to storm the presidential administration and the parliament.
  • Overthrow of Yanukovych:
    The Right Sector and Svoboda are also implicated in the violent overthrow of President Yanukovych, particularly during the "Maidan massacre" where protesters and police were killed.
  • Minority but Influential:
    While far-right groups were a minority among the overall protest movement, their influence on the direction of the protests and the level of violence was significant.
  • Post-Protest Impact:
    The far-right's presence and influence continued after Yanukovych's ouster, with some groups gaining positions in law enforcement and forming affiliated armed units.

This doesn't really refute what I said, but thanks for your contribution.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:46p, 7/30/25
Yeah, Crimea is so stupid. I guess in an infantile way they want to use it as negotiating leverage, but when everybody comes to the table w all their pieces, it has to be acknowledged as Russian.

Russia is winning big, going away, and the experts say the Ukrainian casualty rate has increased, which they claim is normal for a retreating, beleaguered, demoralized, undermanned and half-arned, untrained army with no air support. Concurrently, Russia is sending in 10x the drones as before

This is no knock on brave Ukranians. How long will Z last after the war is over?

Will a 200% Tariff on Russian goods and transshipnents cause Putin to change course? What's left, Odessa and Kiev?

Long term, can they incentivize a higher birth rate and expats to return? With all that land and resources, couldn't they offer higher quality housing, even Western style homes, for Russians who have 3 or 4 children?
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bear2034
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In reply to movielover • 4:29p, 7/31/25
movielover said:
Seth Rich, JFK, Trumps 2-3 assassination attempts.

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11:26p, 7/31/25
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In reply to bear2034 • 10:16p, 8/2/25
I never went too far down the Seth Rich rabbit hole, but being robbed and he still has his wallet and watch, ***? Any criminal knows it takes the cops at least five minutes to get to the scene, and how long does it take to lift a wallet, watch, and gold chain. Thirty seconds max?

A friend who was into the whole forensics and crime scene methodology told me any professional hit man doesn't want to get near their victim bc the technology is so good w carpet fibers, hair samples, a fragment of a fingerprint, etc. He was shot in the back, odd for a robbery of a bookish DC resident (not imposing)... does anyone know if the assault weapon was used at close range?

BTW, Wow: "An email that John Podesta wrote contained in Hillary Clinton's emails stated, "I'm definitely for making an example of a suspected leaker whether or not we have any real basis for it." This should tell you exactly what they were planning all along."

Will Julian Assange ever re-emerge?
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bear2034
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In reply to movielover • 11:26p, 8/2/25
movielover said:
I never went too far down the Seth Rich rabbit hole, but being robbed and he still has his wallet and watch, ***? Any criminal knows it takes the cops at least five minutes to get to the scene, and how long does it take to lift a wallet, watch, and gold chain. Thirty seconds max?

A friend who was into the whole forensics and crime scene methodology told me any professional hit man doesn't want to get near their victim bc the technology is so good w carpet fibers, hair samples, a fragment of a fingerprint, etc. He was shot in the back, odd for a robbery of a bookish DC resident (not imposing)... does anyone know if the assault weapon was used at close range?

BTW, Wow: "An email that John Podesta wrote contained in Hillary Clinton's emails stated, "I'm definitely for making an example of a suspected leaker whether or not we have any real basis for it." This should tell you exactly what they were planning all along."

Will Julian Assange ever re-emerge?


This was too out there for me back in 2016 but it makes a lot of sense now.

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movielover
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In reply to bear2034 • 12:21a, 8/3/25
Have a look at John Podesta's artwork collection. Make sure that no children or young Mothers are around. At leash look at 8-10 for the depravity

Then imagine a party with DC Progressive elites admiring this sick, demented, foul, pedophilic artwork.

Seth Rich is reasonable in comparison.

I imagine there might be sick, depraved artwork in a Hells Angel headquarter, or some backwater slum. Not out in our nation's capital, in daylight, with women and Mothers present. The artwork is literally from depraved Rome.
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Cal88
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8:37a, 8/3/25
Ukrainian sports fans hailing cabs.
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