The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 2:58p, 12/12/25
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
But even in western Ukraine, I don't think locals are pleased with Zelensky selling out to Blackrock, ADM, Monsanto etc.

Maybe, but they still seem to prefer it to Putin.


Those preferences in Ukraine will depend on geography, see NBC video above. But even in anti-Russian western Ukraine, I don't think the locals want to see their lands bought out by foreign interests.

Yes, but they also wouldn't want to see their lands taken by a foreign interest named Russia.


The Russians wouldn't want to annex Ukrainian territories that are hostile to them. But the parts were Russian speakers are prevented from speaking their native language will be a lot more receptive.

Might not want to annex them, but have them under a compliant government that will do what they want? Definitely.


Sure, makes sense. Why have to re-fight this war every ten years?

Problem is the Ukrainians don't want that.


Ukrainians want a permanent settlement with Russia. That was actually the reason they voted for Zelensky in the first place, he run on a moderate, pro-peace platform then pulled a 180.

They don't want a settlement that allows Putin to run their government.


For the south/eastern third of Ukraine, they do want to join Russia if the choice is between a government that bans their language and Russia.

I'm not convinced of that, but I know that's what Russia likes to claim.
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BearlySane88
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In reply to sycasey • 3:35p, 12/12/25
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
But even in western Ukraine, I don't think locals are pleased with Zelensky selling out to Blackrock, ADM, Monsanto etc.

Maybe, but they still seem to prefer it to Putin.


Those preferences in Ukraine will depend on geography, see NBC video above. But even in anti-Russian western Ukraine, I don't think the locals want to see their lands bought out by foreign interests.

Yes, but they also wouldn't want to see their lands taken by a foreign interest named Russia.


The Russians wouldn't want to annex Ukrainian territories that are hostile to them. But the parts were Russian speakers are prevented from speaking their native language will be a lot more receptive.

Might not want to annex them, but have them under a compliant government that will do what they want? Definitely.


Sure, makes sense. Why have to re-fight this war every ten years?

Problem is the Ukrainians don't want that.


Ukrainians want a permanent settlement with Russia. That was actually the reason they voted for Zelensky in the first place, he run on a moderate, pro-peace platform then pulled a 180.

They don't want a settlement that allows Putin to run their government.


For the south/eastern third of Ukraine, they do want to join Russia if the choice is between a government that bans their language and Russia.

I'm not convinced of that, but I know that's what Russia likes to claim.


https://kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=1543&page=1

Most recent data I could find
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cbbass1
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In reply to Cal88 • 2:33a, 12/14/25
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
movielover said:
Yugoslavia wasn't in NATO?


Yugoslavia was non-aligned, not with NATO nor with the Warsaw Pact.

If Yugoslavia was still together, they would have won at least one soccer world cup and given the US a good run for its money in basketball, amazing athletic tradition blending eastern European rigor with southern European flair.

There's no way they would have stayed together. There's a reason "Balkanization" was a term before Yugoslavia or NATO ever existed.


Historically speaking, nations like Italy, France, Spain or Germany were as diverse and culturally fragmented as Yugoslavia was, but they were forged together by strong central governments or dynasties. Yugoslavia on the other hand was torn apart at least in part due to outside influences, which predate the formation of that state, as the area has been the buffer zone of several rival empires.

NATO was also concerned that Austria's example of neutrality would be "contagious". There's nothing that the NeoCons hate more than neutrality.
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cbbass1
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In reply to Cal88 • 2:50a, 12/14/25
Cal88 said:
^This kind of reinforces the post above about multinational business interests coveting Ukraine's land resources.

Absolutely!

Blackrock made massive investments in Ukraine, but apparently much of what he bought is now in Russia.

Blackrock, Chevron, & Exxon, among others, invested $Billions, and they stand to take huuuge losses.

When Trump was getting a lot of $$ from Russian Oligarchs, before 2016, he owed them some favors.

But now, he's taken big $$$ from multiple nations & corporations, with conflicting interests -- which is why he keeps flip-flopping.

Still, NATO is a protection racket. And if you're selling protection, you have to have a Big Threat. The U.S. Military budget is $1 Trillion per year, and all of our enemies are of our own making. Protecting that budget -- and increasing it -- is a multi-$Billion industry in the U.S. That's why we're bombarded by so much anti-Russia propaganda.
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movielover
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In reply to cbbass1 • 10:06a, 12/14/25
It seems the current impasse hasn't changed.

A European demilitarized zone, stood up and supported by EU military forces, would appear to be the best solution.

The "coalition of the willing" say they are willing to put security troops into Ukraine, but only if the USA will defend them if attacked by Russia.

In essence, quasi-NATO forces in a non-NATO country, that if attacked would draw the entirety of NATO into the conflict, including the United States.

So Europe and Zelensky fear the EU can't hold off Putin, and / or don't want to spend the money and resources building up their militaries. Let the US citizens / suckers pay for it.

And Zelensky laid it out today, "European friends" and the "US side".
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Aunburdened
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In reply to cbbass1 • 11:58a, 12/14/25
cbbass1 said:
Cal88 said:
^This kind of reinforces the post above about multinational business interests coveting Ukraine's land resources.

Absolutely!

Blackrock made massive investments in Ukraine, but apparently much of what he bought is now in Russia.

Blackrock, Chevron, & Exxon, among others, invested $Billions, and they stand to take huuuge losses.

When Trump was getting a lot of $$ from Russian Oligarchs, before 2016, he owed them some favors.

But now, he's taken big $$$ from multiple nations & corporations, with conflicting interests -- which is why he keeps flip-flopping.

Still, NATO is a protection racket. And if you're selling protection, you have to have a Big Threat. The U.S. Military budget is $1 Trillion per year, and all of our enemies are of our own making. Protecting that budget -- and increasing it -- is a multi-$Billion industry in the U.S. That's why we're bombarded by so much anti-Russia propaganda.

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Aunburdened
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In reply to sycasey • 12:44p, 12/14/25


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Cal88
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7:14p, 12/14/25
Franco -German state TV network Arte documentary on Ukraine from 2019 about Ukraine as the European hub of child trafficking with 10% of the global traffic:

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movielover
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8:08p, 12/14/25
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Cal88
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6:43a, 12/15/25
The problem with the post-2014 Ukrainian national identity explained in an interview:



The Ukrainian language is foreign to over a third of the country, it cannot be imposed by force. Countries like Spain, Belgium, Canada, Switzerland have long accommodated for linguistic and cultural diversity in their country, while the Kyiv regime has not.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:53a, 12/15/25
Last night I started to watch an alleged MacGregor video, but it appeared to be AI generated. Propoganda? It covered 'the road to Odessa'....
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Cal88
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In reply to movielover • 8:24a, 12/15/25
There are a lot of new YT channels featuring AI generated talks by people like Macgregor or Mearsheimer. A lot of the time they use actual speeches or writings of these pundits, but we don't know for sure if that is always the case.
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bearister
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9:36a, 12/15/25
As war with Russia drags on, ultrarealistic AI videos attempt to portray Ukrainian soldiers in peril https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/openai-sora-realistic-ai-videos-ukrainian-soldiers-rcna247696

"The video is one of 21 AI-generated videos of Ukrainian soldiers reviewed by NBC News in recent weeks that appear to have been created or manipulated using advanced artificial intelligence programs, resulting in some so realistic that they offer few hints of their origins.

But in at least half of these videos, a small logo in the corner gives it away: They were made with Sora 2, the latest iteration of OpenAI's text-to-video generator. Some of the videos generated by Sora used the faces of popular Russian livestreamers, such as Gubanov, in dramatic deepfakes while others show groups of Ukrainian soldiers surrendering to Russian forces en masse.

Those that appear to have been generated by other AI platforms also had very subtle errors that would be challenging for most people to find, such as incorrect or simplified versions of the uniforms and helmets Ukrainian soldiers wear. And to Ukrainians, there's an obvious issue: The majority of videos feature soldiers speaking Russian, while only eight of the 21 videos feature military personnel speaking Ukrainian."
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Cal88
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3:07p, 12/15/25
lol

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cal83dls79
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In reply to Cal88 • 5:30p, 12/15/25
Is that Brian Williams?
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
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Cal88
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5:48a, 12/16/25
Ukrainian authorities purging Russian language books from their libraries, a language that is native to over a third of their countrymen.

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Cal88
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6:28a, 12/16/25
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 12:40p, 12/16/25
This was allowed?
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Aunburdened
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In reply to sycasey • 6:54p, 12/16/25
sycasey said:
Aunburdened said:
sycasey said:
Aunburdened said:


Quote:
"They had this fantasy about imposing a strategic defeat on Russia and all these talking points [EU officials] keep repeating show some of them are still stuck in these illusions. Even though they know, they absolutely know, that ship sailed ages ago and was never realistic in the first place. They just convinced themselves it was true because they wanted to believe it. And now they can't bring themselves to admit they were wrong. They've basically taken themselves out of the whole process. That's the first thing.

"Second. They look at the situation today, don't like what they see, and instead of being helpful, they've started getting in the way of the current US administration and President Trump, who's trying to reach a peace deal through negotiations. They walked away from talks themselves, and now they're blocking Trump too.

"Third. They don't have a peace plan at all. They're openly backing war. And even when they pretend they're proposing "adjustments" to Trump's plan, it's obvious what they're doing: every one of those changes is meant to kill the peace process entirely. They set conditions that they know Russia could never accept, and then the plan is to blame Russia later for the collapse. That's the whole game. And we see it clearly.

"So if they want to come back down to earth and deal with reality as it is on the ground, they're welcome to [join the process]."


Thanks for skipping the middleman this time and just quoting Putin's arguments directly.

The truth is the truth, regardless of who says it. That whole "Putin's puppet" thing you idiots tried didn't work.

I don't think you're refuting the "Putin's puppet" claim very well by quoting Putin, but you do you.

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movielover
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In reply to Aunburdened • 7:20p, 12/16/25
She can't take it with her.

I was surprised after my undergrad days, when visiting campus profs and coaches, when they told me there was an anti-Jewish sentiment on UC campuses that some considered an outgrowth of more ME students. This was 10-20 years ago.

After Gaza... shooting children and journalists...
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sycasey
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4:11p, 12/17/25
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 5:17p, 12/17/25
sycasey said:


He doesn't mention the sticking points, Ukrainian demilitarization, Russia's seized $300 billion. The latter is of particular interest to Kushner, Blackrock and co, they want a big piece of the reconstruction action.
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Aunburdened
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In reply to sycasey • 5:26p, 12/17/25
sycasey said:

Putin has zero incentive to agree to a peace agreement that ends up with him having less than he has now when he likely can continue the war and take what he wants. This is part of that whole "losers don't dictate terms" concept that you struggle so mightily with.
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sycasey
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In reply to Aunburdened • 6:41p, 12/17/25
Aunburdened said:
sycasey said:

Putin has zero incentive to agree to a peace agreement that ends up with him having less than he has now when he likely can continue the war and take what he wants. This is part of that whole "losers don't dictate terms" concept that you struggle so mightily with.

Yes but I've been told by many people here that Putin doesn't really want to go to war and that there have been multiple peace agreements that The West has foolishly turned down.
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Aunburdened
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In reply to sycasey • 7:19p, 12/17/25
sycasey said:
Aunburdened said:
sycasey said:

Putin has zero incentive to agree to a peace agreement that ends up with him having less than he has now when he likely can continue the war and take what he wants. This is part of that whole "losers don't dictate terms" concept that you struggle so mightily with.

Yes but I've been told by many people here that Putin doesn't really want to go to war and that there have been multiple peace agreements that The West has foolishly turned down.

He may have wanted to avoid war before the U.S. and NATO provoked him into one. Now that they're losing, they want him to give up what he's already won without any concessions on their part. No surprise he told them to eff off.
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sycasey
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In reply to Aunburdened • 8:21p, 12/17/25
Aunburdened said:
sycasey said:
Aunburdened said:
sycasey said:

Putin has zero incentive to agree to a peace agreement that ends up with him having less than he has now when he likely can continue the war and take what he wants. This is part of that whole "losers don't dictate terms" concept that you struggle so mightily with.

Yes but I've been told by many people here that Putin doesn't really want to go to war and that there have been multiple peace agreements that The West has foolishly turned down.

He may have wanted to avoid war before the U.S. and NATO provoked him into one. Now that they're losing, they want him to give up what he's already won without any concessions on their part. No surprise he told them to eff off.

Yes, really sounds like a guy who doesn't want to go to war.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 8:45p, 12/17/25
sycasey said:
Aunburdened said:
sycasey said:
Aunburdened said:
sycasey said:

Putin has zero incentive to agree to a peace agreement that ends up with him having less than he has now when he likely can continue the war and take what he wants. This is part of that whole "losers don't dictate terms" concept that you struggle so mightily with.

Yes but I've been told by many people here that Putin doesn't really want to go to war and that there have been multiple peace agreements that The West has foolishly turned down.

He may have wanted to avoid war before the U.S. and NATO provoked him into one. Now that they're losing, they want him to give up what he's already won without any concessions on their part. No surprise he told them to eff off.

Yes, really sounds like a guy who doesn't want to go to war.


He's a baaaad hombre.



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bearister
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In reply to sycasey • 9:00p, 12/17/25


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-enemies-keep-falling-out-of-high-windows-in-russia-it-s-no-accident/ar-AA1LpG14?ocid=msedgdhp

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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:08a, 12/18/25
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Aunburdened said:
sycasey said:
Aunburdened said:
sycasey said:

Putin has zero incentive to agree to a peace agreement that ends up with him having less than he has now when he likely can continue the war and take what he wants. This is part of that whole "losers don't dictate terms" concept that you struggle so mightily with.

Yes but I've been told by many people here that Putin doesn't really want to go to war and that there have been multiple peace agreements that The West has foolishly turned down.

He may have wanted to avoid war before the U.S. and NATO provoked him into one. Now that they're losing, they want him to give up what he's already won without any concessions on their part. No surprise he told them to eff off.

Yes, really sounds like a guy who doesn't want to go to war.


He's a baaaad hombre.

Correct.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 10:22a, 12/18/25
^Unironcially naive then.

Nearly everything about the narrative that was built up around this war was fake.

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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 10:40a, 12/18/25
Cal88 said:
^Unironcially naive then.

Nearly everything about the narrative that was built up around this war was fake.

So your contention is that Putin is not a bad guy.
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movielover
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In reply to sycasey • 10:56a, 12/18/25
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
^Unironcially naive then.

Nearly everything about the narrative that was built up around this war was fake.

So your contention is that Putin is not a bad guy.


He is making rational moves to protect ethnically Russian peoples and end a civil war; concurrently, those areas have desirable mineral deposits and resources.

Logically he is likely looking for more defensible position(s) and a Buffer Zone. Most of this could have been avoided if the Istanbul Peace Accords were ratified. Dummies like Lloyd Austin wanted to "punish" Putin.

The EU now appears to be engaged in PR spin and puff-ery, and the linger that silliness continues, Russia will take more land and kill more untrained cannon fodder.

I imagine somewhere behind the front lines Russia has built defensive fortifications and has begun some rebuilding efforts. Their construction and manufacturing outfits must be working six days a week.
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Aunburdened
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In reply to sycasey • 12:18p, 12/18/25
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
^Unironcially naive then.

Nearly everything about the narrative that was built up around this war was fake.

So your contention is that Putin is not a bad guy.

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sycasey
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In reply to Aunburdened • 1:25p, 12/18/25
Aunburdened said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
^Unironcially naive then.

Nearly everything about the narrative that was built up around this war was fake.

So your contention is that Putin is not a bad guy.


How is that a straw man?

I agree with "Putin is a bad hombre." Cal88 says I'm naive. Conclusion: he doesn't think Putin is bad.
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sycasey
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In reply to movielover • 1:25p, 12/18/25
movielover said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
^Unironcially naive then.

Nearly everything about the narrative that was built up around this war was fake.

So your contention is that Putin is not a bad guy.


He is making rational moves to protect ethnically Russian peoples and end a civil war; concurrently, those areas have desirable mineral deposits and resources.

Now who's being naive?
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