The redacted affidavit

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bearister
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https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.617854/gov.uscourts.flsd.617854.102.1.pdf

DOJ releases redacted search affidavit for Trump's Mar-a-Lago residence


https://www.axios.com/2022/08/26/doj-document-trump-affidavit-mar-a-lago
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bearister
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tequila4kapp
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The affidavit is heavily redacted. MAJOR caveat for the fact the document does briefly mention the possibility there was destruction of documents. But if that proves to not be an issue this appears to me to be another major overreach. Per the affidavit Trump was actively working with NARA to return documents.

I note the 1st two statutes listed have a specific Intent provision. This ties into destruction. It is either there or it isn't. If not, we have a MAJOR problem at the FBI. And that is before the question of classification - did Trump declassify the documents, as he claims?

Another comment - the list of documents to be searched seems WAY overly broad, as it includes any other documents in the general vicinity of classified documents. This judge wasn't doing his job / doing Trump any favors by signing off on that. I'd be interested to hear from Constitutional / defense attorneys on that re 4th amendment concerns

In general - concerns about a politicized FBI aside - I don't especially feel bad for Trump about this. He is not nice and he does not play well with others. That was part of his appeal vis a vis Drain The Swamp. But if you **** on people you don't get favors back, either.
bearister
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Regardless of the legal complexities and technicalities, and all the proclamations by tRump of bad faith overreach and of his own innocence, if the government has the gonads to prosecute tRump, he will not be testifying at his own trial and will assert the 5th because:

His entire life tRump has been guilty as charged for all his misconduct…and it is usually worse than the allegations.





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DiabloWags
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It's a witch hunt.
It's a hoax.

I'll take the 5th
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
concordtom
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tequila4kapp said:

The affidavit is heavily redacted. MAJOR caveat for the fact the document does briefly mention the possibility there was destruction of documents. But if that proves to not be an issue this appears to me to be another major overreach. Per the affidavit Trump was actively working with NARA to return documents.

I note the 1st two statutes listed have a specific Intent provision. This ties into destruction. It is either there or it isn't. If not, we have a MAJOR problem at the FBI. And that is before the question of classification - did Trump declassify the documents, as he claims?

Another comment - the list of documents to be searched seems WAY overly broad, as it includes any other documents in the general vicinity of classified documents. This judge wasn't doing his job / doing Trump any favors by signing off on that. I'd be interested to hear from Constitutional / defense attorneys on that re 4th amendment concerns

In general - concerns about a politicized FBI aside - I don't especially feel bad for Trump about this. He is not nice and he does not play well with others. That was part of his appeal vis a vis Drain The Swamp. But if you **** on people you don't get favors back, either.


Overreach my ass.
Come on Kapp, you KNOW Trump was trying to sell off who killed Kennedy, where the aliens bodies are located AND our biggest and best nuclear bomb plans.

And I'm not even kidding!!
The man is as toxic as Calbear93!!

And you KNOW what the punishment is for excessive toxicity, don't you!?!?!
calbear93
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concordtom said:

tequila4kapp said:

The affidavit is heavily redacted. MAJOR caveat for the fact the document does briefly mention the possibility there was destruction of documents. But if that proves to not be an issue this appears to me to be another major overreach. Per the affidavit Trump was actively working with NARA to return documents.

I note the 1st two statutes listed have a specific Intent provision. This ties into destruction. It is either there or it isn't. If not, we have a MAJOR problem at the FBI. And that is before the question of classification - did Trump declassify the documents, as he claims?

Another comment - the list of documents to be searched seems WAY overly broad, as it includes any other documents in the general vicinity of classified documents. This judge wasn't doing his job / doing Trump any favors by signing off on that. I'd be interested to hear from Constitutional / defense attorneys on that re 4th amendment concerns

In general - concerns about a politicized FBI aside - I don't especially feel bad for Trump about this. He is not nice and he does not play well with others. That was part of his appeal vis a vis Drain The Swamp. But if you **** on people you don't get favors back, either.


Overreach my ass.
Come on Kapp, you KNOW Trump was trying to sell off who killed Kennedy, where the aliens bodies are located AND our biggest and best nuclear bomb plans.

And I'm not even kidding!!
The man is as toxic as Calbear93!!

And you KNOW what the punishment is for excessive toxicity, don't you!?!?!
For someone you ignore, you are surely obsessed.

This legal take must be from your legal experience managing a $20B fund.

Any luck making a friend connection on OT?

No, you are not an awkward freak at all.
calbear93
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tequila4kapp said:

The affidavit is heavily redacted. MAJOR caveat for the fact the document does briefly mention the possibility there was destruction of documents. But if that proves to not be an issue this appears to me to be another major overreach. Per the affidavit Trump was actively working with NARA to return documents.

I note the 1st two statutes listed have a specific Intent provision. This ties into destruction. It is either there or it isn't. If not, we have a MAJOR problem at the FBI. And that is before the question of classification - did Trump declassify the documents, as he claims?

Another comment - the list of documents to be searched seems WAY overly broad, as it includes any other documents in the general vicinity of classified documents. This judge wasn't doing his job / doing Trump any favors by signing off on that. I'd be interested to hear from Constitutional / defense attorneys on that re 4th amendment concerns

In general - concerns about a politicized FBI aside - I don't especially feel bad for Trump about this. He is not nice and he does not play well with others. That was part of his appeal vis a vis Drain The Swamp. But if you **** on people you don't get favors back, either.
Granted it is not my area of expertise, but not sure I get the intent provision. It is not like 1st degree murder.

It looks like a much broader scienter requirement and involves not only wrongful communication but also wrongful failure to surrender the documents. Gross negligence would most likely satisfy willful misconduct standard. The fact that they found how poorly he treated confidential information on what he surrendered would indicate gross negligence of top secret information that may pertain to our national security.

And this concept that Trump can broadly declassify anything he possesses seems like nonsense. Did he know of every single items in the files and specifically declassify or is the thinking that a president can broadly claim everything classified or top secret is now declassified? That would be ridiculous. So, did he know of all of the top secret information that pertain to human sources and declassified it or did he not know of it and therefore could not have expressly declassified it?

The document request also does not seem expressly broad or beyond what I would expect from search warrants (again not my area of expertise). I think an illegal search and seizure would be a loser.



tequila4kapp
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At least one of the statues reads something like "destroy with intent to (insert a word here, I can't remember what it was)". In other words, it's not enough to prove the document was destroyed the government has to prove it was destroyed for the specific reason listed in the statute. At least that is my reading of the statute.

Edit- there are four statues at play. NARA / Pres documents Statue is not criminal. If I remember correctly two of the remaining three have that specific intent provision. The fourth one would be in play.
tequila4kapp
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What the hell, I'm on a roll…

We know Trump was actively working with NARA to return documents - 15 boxes were returned. And the affidavit claims additional documents were still at Mar-a-Lago. It also alludes to document destruction. So the implication yes partial compliance and nefarious action to avoid for compliance

We also know the primary justification for all the reductions was to protect civilian witnesses. To my reading that sounds like Mar-a-Lago employees.

Would be something else if a former president was spied on by his private residence staff over the Destruction of classified documents, with a distraction happening to hide something.
calbear93
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tequila4kapp said:

At least one of the statues reads something like "destroy with intent to (insert a word here, I can't remember what it was)". In other words, it's not enough to prove the document was destroyed the government has to prove it was destroyed for the specific reason listed in the statute. At least that is my reading of the statue.

Edit- there are four statues at play. NARA / Pres documents Statue is not criminal. If I remember correctly two of the remaining three have that specific intent provision. The fourth one would be in play.


I guess my point is that willful scienter standard seems different from intentionally cause standard. I read the scienter as willful misconduct which may be satisfied by continuous gross negligence.

Again just guessing here. If the standard is willfully cause …. does continuous gross negligence satisfy? Not sure since criminal law is the least of my familiarity.
Unit2Sucks
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T4K is going to extreme lengths to defend Trump's criminal conduct.

Let me just recap what we've seen from people like T4K. First - Trump announces publicly that the FBI executed a search warrant. Immediately the right wing echo chamber went into defense mode on behalf of Trump. They decried this as a political stunt despite the fact that the FBI didn't announce this search and took great lengths to make it quiet. Trump is the only one politicizing this. Next they attacked the judge. Then they said "show us the warrant." As predicted, it was bad for Trump. So next they said "show us the affidavit." As anyone with half a brain knew, it is very bad for Trump. There was never going to be exculpatory information in it. Trump would have fought the release if he had real lawyers but instead he relies on a parking garage lawyer who is way out of her depth. So they let this get released. Even worse for Trump, his idiot associate - Solomon - released the demand letter from the archives showing just how disingenuous Trump's defenses have been these last few weeks.

Now we have people saying "well if you assume all of the disputed facts are untrue and that Trump meant well, this is not a big deal." First - even if all that stuff was true, Trump has violated some pretty serious laws. The sorts of laws that the GOP used to pretend to care about but now has to disavow. The idea that someone would defend Trump for declassifying hundreds of extremely sensitive documents, including SCI, and then dumping into boxes alongside memorabilia, and then storing that in an insecure location in his SEASIDE RESORT is simply too delicious to ignore. Do the people defending Trump realize what declassifying means? It doesn't mean that the information is no longer dangerous or important. It doesn't mean we should feel comfortable with Trump storing it next to his Shaquille sneakers or that we shouldn't worry about him showing it to Kid Rock and the Russians who easily scam their way into his presence. Trump is the biggest security risk in the history of our country and people should be horrified to think about him retaining sensitive government records. If he were to wantonly declassify all of these documents without any benefit to the US, it would be treasonous.

These are the same people who absolutely lost their minds when Clinton had a handful of stale classified information stored in her private email server, most of them likely related to her travel schedule. None of which were even close to top secret or SCI.

I agree, however, that we are likely to look back with disgust at the FBI for the way they handled this. They gave an obvious criminal with bad intent far too long to comply with the law. They should never have let him hold onto these files for 20+ months after he lost the election. He was a danger to our nation and they've known about it for far too long. They should have blitzed Trump months ago.
tequila4kapp
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The hatred you and other have for Trump colors and clouds everything you see and say.

I do not love Trump.

I do, however, see SUBSTANTIAL problems with the FBI and the manner in which it has become politicized and used as a political weapon. This stuff should make everyone uncomfortable. With the redactions we cannot really assess if that is the case here. Time will tell.

This is part of the reason the implication that Trump destroyed stuff matters... if that wasn't happening then you've got a former President working with the government agency to return documents having his home raided. He was in contact with the FBI about proper storage mechanisms. He appears to have been trying to comply. So minus the document destruction (and especially some nefarious purpose for the destruction) it appears to be using a bazooka to kill a fly.

Since you raised HRC, if you cannot see the 180* differences between how the two parties were treated then I don't know what to say. Your characterization that it was a handful of stale travel documents is laughable. From that notoriously right wing outlet, CBS news:

"Hillary Clinton's private email server contained information that was classified at a higher level than "top secret," the inspector general of the intelligence community told members of Congress in a letter obtained by CBS News.

The server Clinton used as secretary of state contained "several dozen emails containing classified information determined by the [intelligence community] element to be at the CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET, and TOP SECRET/SAP levels," the inspector general, Charles McCullough, wrote in the letter, which was first reported by Fox News. "SAP" stands for special access programs, which carry a classification level higher than top secret.

Former CIA Director David Petraeus was sentenced to two years' probation and fined $100,000 for sharing similarly classified information with Paula Broadwell, his biographer and mistress."
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

T4K is going to extreme lengths to defend Trump's criminal conduct.

Let me just recap what we've seen from people like T4K. First - Trump announces publicly that the FBI executed a search warrant. Immediately the right wing echo chamber went into defense mode on behalf of Trump. They decried this as a political stunt despite the fact that the FBI didn't announce this search and took great lengths to make it quiet. Trump is the only one politicizing this. Next they attacked the judge. Then they said "show us the warrant." As predicted, it was bad for Trump. So next they said "show us the affidavit." As anyone with half a brain knew, it is very bad for Trump. There was never going to be exculpatory information in it. Trump would have fought the release if he had real lawyers but instead he relies on a parking garage lawyer who is way out of her depth. So they let this get released. Even worse for Trump, his idiot associate - Solomon - released the demand letter from the archives showing just how disingenuous Trump's defenses have been these last few weeks.

Now we have people saying "well if you assume all of the disputed facts are untrue and that Trump meant well, this is not a big deal." First - even if all that stuff was true, Trump has violated some pretty serious laws. The sorts of laws that the GOP used to pretend to care about but now has to disavow. The idea that someone would defend Trump for declassifying hundreds of extremely sensitive documents, including SCI, and then dumping into boxes alongside memorabilia, and then storing that in an insecure location in his SEASIDE RESORT is simply too delicious to ignore. Do the people defending Trump realize what declassifying means? It doesn't mean that the information is no longer dangerous or important. It doesn't mean we should feel comfortable with Trump storing it next to his Shaquille sneakers or that we shouldn't worry about him showing it to Kid Rock and the Russians who easily scam their way into his presence. Trump is the biggest security risk in the history of our country and people should be horrified to think about him retaining sensitive government records. If he were to wantonly declassify all of these documents without any benefit to the US, it would be treasonous.

These are the same people who absolutely lost their minds when Clinton had a handful of stale classified information stored in her private email server, most of them likely related to her travel schedule. None of which were even close to top secret or SCI.

I agree, however, that we are likely to look back with disgust at the FBI for the way they handled this. They gave an obvious criminal with bad intent far too long to comply with the law. They should never have let him hold onto these files for 20+ months after he lost the election. He was a danger to our nation and they've known about it for far too long. They should have blitzed Trump months ago.


Let me recap what we've seen from people like Unit2. They act like babies.

https://exploringyourmind.com/autonepiophilia-adults-pretending-to-be-babies/
Unit2Sucks
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tequila4kapp said:

The hatred you and other have for Trump colors and clouds everything you see and say.

I do not love Trump.

I do, however, see SUBSTANTIAL problems with the FBI and the manner in which it has become politicized and used as a political weapon. This stuff should make everyone uncomfortable. With the redactions we cannot really assess if that is the case here. Time will tell.

This is part of the reason the implication that Trump destroyed stuff matters... if that wasn't happening then you've got a former President working with the government agency to return documents having his home raided. He was in contact with the FBI about proper storage mechanisms. He appears to have been trying to comply. So minus the document destruction (and especially some nefarious purpose for the destruction) it appears to be using a bazooka to kill a fly.

Since you raised HRC, if you cannot see the 180* differences between how the two parties were treated then I don't know what to say. Your characterization that it was a handful of stale travel documents is laughable. From that notoriously right wing outlet, CBS news:

"Hillary Clinton's private email server contained information that was classified at a higher level than "top secret," the inspector general of the intelligence community told members of Congress in a letter obtained by CBS News.

The server Clinton used as secretary of state contained "several dozen emails containing classified information determined by the [intelligence community] element to be at the CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET, and TOP SECRET/SAP levels," the inspector general, Charles McCullough, wrote in the letter, which was first reported by Fox News. "SAP" stands for special access programs, which carry a classification level higher than top secret.

Former CIA Director David Petraeus was sentenced to two years' probation and fined $100,000 for sharing similarly classified information with Paula Broadwell, his biographer and mistress."
Petraeus knowingly shared classified information with a member of the media. This is closer to Trump than Clinton. If any of Clinton's emails were meaningful, Trump would have spent 4 years talking about it. He would have declassified them and made them public. Since there was no there there, they preferred to just say "lock her up" and not get into the details.

I know people like you like to talk about the FBI being politicized and used as a political weapon, but there is less than zero evidence of that here. If anything. the FBI gave way too much leeway to Trump because they didn't want to appear political. That was a mistake - they should have treated him like the criminal he has shown himself to be.

None of this has anything to do with my feelings about Trump. He didn't steal classified documents (and pretend to declassify them) because I think he's a moron and a criminal. He did it because he's a moron and a criminal. Your baseless defense of him will only look more ridiculous as more facts come out. There is a reason we aren't seeing people like BearGoggles rush to Trump's defense now. Every fact that comes out makes Trump look worse.

oski003 said:



Let me recap what we've seen from people like Unit2. They act like babies.

https://exploringyourmind.com/autonepiophilia-adults-pretending-to-be-babies/

Quoted for irony. This is just more performative nonsense from a devoted contrarian. You don't actually have any thing substantive to add to this discussion.
DiabloWags
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Unit2Sucks said:



I know people like you like to talk about the FBI being politicized and used as a political weapon, but there is less than zero evidence of that here. If anything. the FBI gave way too much leeway to Trump because they didn't want to appear political. That was a mistake - they should have treated him like the criminal he has shown himself to be.

None of this has anything to do with my feelings about Trump. He didn't steal classified documents (and pretend to declassify them) because I think he's a moron and a criminal. He did it because he's a moron and a criminal. Your baseless defense of him will only look more ridiculous as more facts come out. There is a reason we aren't seeing people like BearGoggles rush to Trump's defense now. Every fact that comes out makes Trump look worse.




Shhhhhh....
Tequilla just had a couple of shots and thinks he's on a roll.

It's funny to see people defend the indefensible.
I truly wonder what they do for a living.


"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
GoOskie
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Unit2Sucks said:

T4K is going to extreme lengths to defend Trump's criminal conduct.

Let me just recap what we've seen from people like T4K. First - Trump announces publicly that the FBI executed a search warrant. Immediately the right wing echo chamber went into defense mode on behalf of Trump. They decried this as a political stunt despite the fact that the FBI didn't announce this search and took great lengths to make it quiet. Trump is the only one politicizing this. Next they attacked the judge. Then they said "show us the warrant." As predicted, it was bad for Trump. So next they said "show us the affidavit." As anyone with half a brain knew, it is very bad for Trump. There was never going to be exculpatory information in it. Trump would have fought the release if he had real lawyers but instead he relies on a parking garage lawyer who is way out of her depth. So they let this get released. Even worse for Trump, his idiot associate - Solomon - released the demand letter from the archives showing just how disingenuous Trump's defenses have been these last few weeks.

Now we have people saying "well if you assume all of the disputed facts are untrue and that Trump meant well, this is not a big deal." First - even if all that stuff was true, Trump has violated some pretty serious laws. The sorts of laws that the GOP used to pretend to care about but now has to disavow. The idea that someone would defend Trump for declassifying hundreds of extremely sensitive documents, including SCI, and then dumping into boxes alongside memorabilia, and then storing that in an insecure location in his SEASIDE RESORT is simply too delicious to ignore. Do the people defending Trump realize what declassifying means? It doesn't mean that the information is no longer dangerous or important. It doesn't mean we should feel comfortable with Trump storing it next to his Shaquille sneakers or that we shouldn't worry about him showing it to Kid Rock and the Russians who easily scam their way into his presence. Trump is the biggest security risk in the history of our country and people should be horrified to think about him retaining sensitive government records. If he were to wantonly declassify all of these documents without any benefit to the US, it would be treasonous.

These are the same people who absolutely lost their minds when Clinton had a handful of stale classified information stored in her private email server, most of them likely related to her travel schedule. None of which were even close to top secret or SCI.

I agree, however, that we are likely to look back with disgust at the FBI for the way they handled this. They gave an obvious criminal with bad intent far too long to comply with the law. They should never have let him hold onto these files for 20+ months after he lost the election. He was a danger to our nation and they've known about it for far too long. They should have blitzed Trump months ago.
Excellent summary.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

tequila4kapp said:

The hatred you and other have for Trump colors and clouds everything you see and say.

I do not love Trump.

I do, however, see SUBSTANTIAL problems with the FBI and the manner in which it has become politicized and used as a political weapon. This stuff should make everyone uncomfortable. With the redactions we cannot really assess if that is the case here. Time will tell.

This is part of the reason the implication that Trump destroyed stuff matters... if that wasn't happening then you've got a former President working with the government agency to return documents having his home raided. He was in contact with the FBI about proper storage mechanisms. He appears to have been trying to comply. So minus the document destruction (and especially some nefarious purpose for the destruction) it appears to be using a bazooka to kill a fly.

Since you raised HRC, if you cannot see the 180* differences between how the two parties were treated then I don't know what to say. Your characterization that it was a handful of stale travel documents is laughable. From that notoriously right wing outlet, CBS news:

"Hillary Clinton's private email server contained information that was classified at a higher level than "top secret," the inspector general of the intelligence community told members of Congress in a letter obtained by CBS News.

The server Clinton used as secretary of state contained "several dozen emails containing classified information determined by the [intelligence community] element to be at the CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET, and TOP SECRET/SAP levels," the inspector general, Charles McCullough, wrote in the letter, which was first reported by Fox News. "SAP" stands for special access programs, which carry a classification level higher than top secret.

Former CIA Director David Petraeus was sentenced to two years' probation and fined $100,000 for sharing similarly classified information with Paula Broadwell, his biographer and mistress."
Petraeus knowingly shared classified information with a member of the media. This is closer to Trump than Clinton. If any of Clinton's emails were meaningful, Trump would have spent 4 years talking about it. He would have declassified them and made them public. Since there was no there there, they preferred to just say "lock her up" and not get into the details.

I know people like you like to talk about the FBI being politicized and used as a political weapon, but there is less than zero evidence of that here. If anything. the FBI gave way too much leeway to Trump because they didn't want to appear political. That was a mistake - they should have treated him like the criminal he has shown himself to be.

None of this has anything to do with my feelings about Trump. He didn't steal classified documents (and pretend to declassify them) because I think he's a moron and a criminal. He did it because he's a moron and a criminal. Your baseless defense of him will only look more ridiculous as more facts come out. There is a reason we aren't seeing people like BearGoggles rush to Trump's defense now. Every fact that comes out makes Trump look worse.

oski003 said:



Let me recap what we've seen from people like Unit2. They act like babies.

https://exploringyourmind.com/autonepiophilia-adults-pretending-to-be-babies/

Quoted for irony. This is just more performative nonsense from a devoted contrarian. You don't actually have any thing substantive to add to this discussion.


It is not right how you attack people by saying

"People like Tequila4Kapp" do this"

and then proceed to list things people on the extreme side of the spectrum do. You purposely associate people with something distasteful as a means to knock them down. Your method of argument is outright mean and unethical.
AunBear89
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So much projection.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
bearister
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DiabloWags said:

It's a witch hunt.
It's a hoax.

I'll take the 5th



Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
bearister
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I have but one thing to say to those who have been seduced by the Bannon/tRump/Tucker Carlson fantasy narrative that the FBI is a dark political actor conspiring to bring down tRump and entrap Deplorable patriots:

1. FBI Director James Comey won the Election for tRump with his overly scrupulous Boy Scout (not Boy Scout leader) "I've got to get this off my chest" mentality at that press conference on the eve of the 2016 Election where he torpedoed Hillary.

tRump, himself, acknowledged this fact when he deep tongued Comey's ear and then invited him to a one on one dinner at he White House to confirm that Comey would be the Commander of tRump's Praetorian Guard;

2. How did the FBI is a Deep State actor that entrapped those who plotted to kidnap, Kangaroo Court try and then execute Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer theory work out for those two missing link hillbillies that just got convicted?

3. How did the theory that the FBI conspired to set up the Patriots that participated in the January 6 Capitol Insurrection work out for the Deplorables that got convicted or pled guilty in that matter?

When are you people going to realize that guys like Rudy, Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, tRump, Tucker Carlson and Michael Flynn reside in non reality based Unsubstantiated Allegation World whereas in the real world we deal with facts, evidence, proof, burdens of proof and jury verdicts?

This is why when people that reside in Allegation World enter the civil or criminal litigation system they settle or lose the civil case, and in the criminal case, plead or get convicted. In both civil and criminal cases they have to assert the 5th Amendment because they are complete f@ucking liars that never had, and never will have, any factual support for the unsubstantiated bullsh@it they sling…..which, unfortunately, is still good enough to fire up their bird brained supporters (with no insult to birds intended).
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
tequila4kapp
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Your hatred manifests as reading comprehension challenges. I said let's see how this plays out. That is not defending Trump. That is expressing an opinion that some of this looks thin to me and maybe Trump is guilty of it and maybe it is another Russia hoax situation.
tequila4kapp
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DiabloWags said:

Unit2Sucks said:



I know people like you like to talk about the FBI being politicized and used as a political weapon, but there is less than zero evidence of that here. If anything. the FBI gave way too much leeway to Trump because they didn't want to appear political. That was a mistake - they should have treated him like the criminal he has shown himself to be.

None of this has anything to do with my feelings about Trump. He didn't steal classified documents (and pretend to declassify them) because I think he's a moron and a criminal. He did it because he's a moron and a criminal. Your baseless defense of him will only look more ridiculous as more facts come out. There is a reason we aren't seeing people like BearGoggles rush to Trump's defense now. Every fact that comes out makes Trump look worse.




Shhhhhh....
Tequilla just had a couple of shots and thinks he's on a roll.

It's funny to see people defend the indefensible.
I truly wonder what they do for a living.
Another Trump hater who reads anything that isn't attacking Trump as defending Trump. Jesus.
tequila4kapp
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bearister said:

I have but one thing to say to those who have been seduced by the Bannon/tRump/Tucker Carlson fantasy narrative that the FBI is a dark political actor conspiring to bring down tRump and entrap Deplorable patriots:

1. FBI Director James Comey won the Election for tRump with his overly scrupulous Boy Scout (not Boy Scout leader) "I've got to get this off my chest" mentality at that press conference on the eve of the 2016 Election where he torpedoed Hillary.

tRump, himself, acknowledged this fact when he deep tongued Comey's ear and then invited him to a one on one dinner at he White House to confirm that Comey would be the Commander of tRump's Praetorian Guard;

2. How did the FBI is a Deep State actor that entrapped those who plotted to kidnap, Kangaroo Court try and then execute Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer theory work out for those two missing link hillbillies that just got convicted?

3. How did the theory that the FBI conspired to set up the Patriots that participated in the January 6 Capitol Insurrection work out for the Deplorables that got convicted or pled guilty in that matter?

When are you people going to realize that guys like Rudy, Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, tRump, Tucker Carlson and Michael Flynn reside in non reality based Unsubstantiated Allegation World whereas in the real world we deal with facts, evidence, proof, burdens of proof and jury verdicts?

This is why when people that reside in Allegation World enter the civil or criminal litigation system they settle or lose the civil case, and in the criminal case, plead or get convicted. In both civil and criminal cases they have to assert the 5th Amendment because they are complete f@ucking liars that never had, and never will have, any factual support for the unsubstantiated bullsh@it they sling…..which, unfortunately, is still good enough to fire up their bird brained supporters (with no insult to birds intended).
I will try again. It IS possible that everything you say about Trump is true AND the FBI/DOJ has a problem with political motivation.
bearister
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FBI probing woman who posed as Rothschild heiress at Mar-a-Lago



https://mol.im/a/11149921
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concordtom
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tequila4kapp said:

Your hatred manifests as reading comprehension challenges. I said let's see how this plays out. That is not defending Trump. That is expressing an opinion that some of this looks thin to me and maybe Trump is guilty of it and maybe it is another Russia hoax situation.


Dude, you're making me laugh.

It's like, "let's see how the impeachment trials or the mueller report turns out", and then somehow find a thin vein where upon we can say he's completely venerated.

Completely innocent, right?

Hahaha.
You are so embedded in the sick psychology, it's laughable to me.

"Let's see how this plays out." Hahaha.
It played out YEARS ago and has been a broken record on endless replay.

What do you need to see before you just know that basically everything trump is involved in is a problem?

It's just part of his character, which is historically horrible!
concordtom
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bearister said:

FBI probing woman who posed as Rothschild heiress at Mar-a-Lago

https://mol.im/a/11149921


I heard about this. She's a foreign national, no?

What kind of odds is Vegas running on whether he was banging her or not?
concordtom
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tequila4kapp said:

I will try again. It IS possible that everything you say about Trump is true.


Pls replace possible with probable and we're in accordance with each other.

Why you always looking for his advertised witch hunt?
He's like the candy man, feeding you what you want to hear.
bearister
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Sure. The SCOTUS has the same problem.

I don't think if tRump committed crimes he can assert a "political motivation" defense.

BTW, from what I've heard, most FBI are Conservatives….maybe not tRumpists, though.

They let tRump skate on 102 tRump associate meetings with Russians (many of them in the Russian intelligence community) in the run up to the 2016 Election without any explanation of what was discussed in those meetings (to this day, no explanation).* They let tRump get away with murder because no one thought he had a chance to win and they didn't want him crying "Rigged Election."


*By now it is universally accepted by everyone, except tRump, that the Russians favored him in the 2016 Election, which makes sense, like we would favor a failed businessman and TV entertainer to helm Russia. That being the case, what do you suppose those Intelligence community Russians were discussing in those 102 meetings? Mail order brides?
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Unit2Sucks
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tequila4kapp said:

Your hatred manifests as reading comprehension challenges. I said let's see how this plays out. That is not defending Trump. That is expressing an opinion that some of this looks thin to me and maybe Trump is guilty of it and maybe it is another Russia hoax situation.
This has nothing to do with my scorn for Trump. Look at the allegations against him. Think about what we've learned about him over the past 7 years. Is there anything alleged that you think couldn't possibly be true? By all accounts his presidential records are full of documents that he tore up and threw in the trash or toilet and which his staff had been forced to tape together. He has never given anyone reason to think he is a good steward of records and this is largely uncontested.

He's alleged to have taken several hundred classified documents. He intermingled them with memorabilia across over a dozen disorganized boxes. He moved them around in multiple unsecured rooms, including in his personal residence.

This is the type of information in the first set of boxes that the government retrieved from MAL:
Quote:

From May 16-18, 2022, FBI agents conducted a preliminary review of the FIFTEEN BOXES provided to NARA and identified documents with classification markings in fourteen of the FIFTEEN BOXES. A prelin1ina1y triage of the documents with classification markings revealed the following approximate numbers: 184 unique documents bearing classification markings, including 67 documents marked as CONFIDENTIAL, 92 documents marked as SECRET, and 25 documents marked as TOP SECRET. Further, the FBI agents observed markings reflecting the following compartments/dissemination controls: HCS, FISA, ORCON, NOFORN, and SI. Based on my training and experience, I know that documents
classified at these levels typically contain NDI. Several of the documents also contained what appears to be FPOTUS 's handwritten notes.
If you don't know what these classifications mean, you should do your homework. This is a huge deal and damning for Trump.

And the affidavit also says the following:
Quote:

61. On June 8, 2022, DOJ COUNSEL sent FPOTUS COUNSEL 1 a letter, which reiterated that the PREMISES are not autho1ized to store classified info1mation and requested the preservation of the STORAGE ROOM and boxes that had been moved from the White House to the PREMISES.
Quote:

77. Based upon this investigation, I believe that the STORAGE ROOM, FPOTUS's residential suite, Pine Hall, the "45 Office," and other spaces within the PREMISES are not currently authorized locations for the storage of classified information or NDI. Similarly, based upon this investigation, I do not believe that any spaces within the PREMISES have been authorized for the storage of classified information at least since the end of FPOTUS 's Presidential Administration on January 20, 2021.

78. As described above, evidence of the SUBJECT OFFENSES has been stored in multiple locations at the PREMISES.

We also know - because Trump told us by releasing a letter from NARA - that in May he was told in no uncertain terms that he had to return everything, and that his original returned boxes had classified information. Then, the feds went back and got more from MAL a few months ago and Trump's lawyer swore in an affidavit that there was nothing else.

Now we know - again because Trump told us - that the FBI executed a search warrant and retrieved over a dozen boxes of materials. And no one has disputed that there were again documents marked classified in those boxes.

There is nothing about this that has been politicized by the Biden administration, the DOJ or FBI. This would all still be unknown to the public if Trump hadn't made it publicly known. You are pretending like there is some genuine dispute here but there really isn't. Trump stole government property and refused to return it. He was told to return it. When some was taken back, they realized it had a crazy amount of classified information. They told him that he had to return everything and went back to take more. He said there was nothing more but they learned through sources that he had more (lots apparently) and that he had it in several insecure locations in HIS PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE SEASIDE RESORT which was known to be crawling with spies. He is still claiming, like the idiot that he is, that he has a right to maintain these documents and demanding they be returned to him.

The fact that you can pretend like this is "thin" proves that you either have no business making that determination or you are full of it. No reasonable person, who is at all qualified to analyze the situation, would claim that this is "thin." This is incredibly damning.

It is "incredibly thin" to think the best defenses Trump has are (i) that he declassified the incredibly dangerous information that he stored alongside memorabilia in his unsecured seaside resort and (ii) the FBI has been politicized. Embarrassingly thin.

bearister
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If they can link the murder of any of our spies or foreign contacts to his appropriation of classified documents, tRump should be tried, convicted and hung by his va jay jay neck until dead in the central courtyard of USP Leavenworth.

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bearister
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"There's been a shift in Trumpworld over the last few days with regard to the search, particularly after conservative John Solomon published a May 10 letter from the National Archives that revealed Trump took more than 700 pages of highly classified material with him after leaving office.

The letter also showed an extensive back and forth between Trump's lawyers and the government, in which the government seemed to have determined Trump was either misleading them deliberately or not being fully forthcoming, and that the FBI and NARA determined the materials are not covered by executive privilege, contrary to the claims of Trump's legal team.

Many Trump allies have grown quiet in recent days after initially leaning hard into their criticism of the search. There's a renewed weariness that has seeped into some of the private conversations among Trump advisers and those in his orbit as more of these facts are released to the public, adding to a growing feeling there may be some justification for the search."

-Axios

*tRump has always used stonewalling in business and in litigation to wear his opponents down until they throw up their hands, say "F@uck it," and walk away.

It was instinctual for him to try the same routine with the government when it asked him politely to return the documents months ago. It didn't work this time…..and it is not working as a strategy in any of the civil and criminal proceedings that are pressing in on him.

The government has unlimited funds and is not a private party feeling the sting of big law firm fees chasing tRump. Granted, tRump has unlimited funds as well siphoned off from mom and pop political donations from the Red States but I don't think he can continue to keep pace since he is hemorrhaging cash in so many different directions.
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