dimitrig said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

I don't want to dwell on this DeSantis thing but I will say :

1. He was a very good baseball player. I suspect that played into his admission to Yale. Maybe not, but it is worth acknowledging as a possibility.

2. In a more general sense there are a lot of people at Yale that aren't all that smart. Do not put too much stock into where someone went to school. I met a young woman yesterday who went to Florida Tech and she is doing amazing research that is coveted by both the DoD and commercial companies. I did ask her how she ended up at such an unknown school. She said that she wanted to go to MIT or Stanford but that at the time she was working for Delta Airlines and Florida Tech was one of the schools that Delta would reimburse tuition for and so she ended up there. She said she has no regrets as her decision worked out very well for her. The field I work in is full of very brilliant engineers and scientists and most of them did not go to Ivy League schools. So what?

3. I have yet to read or hear of something DeSantis has done which is anything but stupid. You may say the same about me, but I am bull****ting on a sports board. This guy is the governor. If he constantly does and says dumb things as part of his job as governor then maybe he just isn't that smart.

By the way, at Cal I took Astronomy. Chemistry, Upper Div Math, Upper Div Physics, upper Div CS and my electives were classes like Philosophy, Economics, Classics, and Anthropology. I never got lower than an A in any non-STEM course and that was with me not devoting much time to it because I was being killed with workload for my other courses. I probably could be an Archaeologist right now as my professor and TAs were really pushing me to go that route and I did well. Would I be smarter if I was an archaeology professor at Harvard or Cambridge or would that have just been a career choice?

I am not going to be one of those people that says people in STEM are smarter than anyone else, because I certainly could not have passed my roommates Spanish and French literature courses that required the essays to be written in the foreign language. We all have unique skills and abilities. Intelligence is hard to quantify.

One of the smartest guys I know is a peon engineer who went to Caltech. He still lives in the same 1 bedroom apartment and drives the same old car he always did. He never advanced in his career. Once he got recruited to be a quant on Wall Street. He doubled his salary but quit within 2 years because he didn't like it, didn't like the people, didn't like New York. He is back to his old job. I guarantee you he is smarter than you, me, and DeSantis but other than his Caltech degree there is nothing that would indicate that. Give him a math problem to solve, though.

---

I think two things will clarify the things you wrote to minimize his experience at Yale and Harvard. Summa cum laude and cum laude. He graduated with exceptionally high grades. So, despite being on the baseball team and working as an electrician in college, he graduated near the top of his class.

Again, he is a bad politician who ran to the right of Trump. That was a dumb move but it does you no good for your arguments and it does not make you seem any less tribal to minimize his academic achievements.

I was in college of chemistry for two years. I admit that the only grades less than an A I received were in organic chemistry and physical chemistry. So I agree that humanities were much easier. But let's not assume you would have gotten into Yale and that you would have graduated summa cum laude.

About solving math problems - I believe he got perfect score on the math portion of the SAT. So maybe he didn't take advance math classes but he probably had the mental capacity to do well.

If you want to make yourself feel better by convincing yourself that you are smarter, won't stop you. But it's stupid to say he is stupid. Trump maybe. But not DeSantis.

---

If he is so smart why does he do and say so many dumb things? Did he take a lot of drugs? Have a stroke? He doesn't act like a smart person. Perhaps he once was smart but he now has diminished capacity.

What can you point to that makes you think he is so smart other than some grades he got 20 years ago at a school which is known for grade inflation? The mean GPA at Yale and Harvard is 3.7.

---

dimitrig said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

I don't want to dwell on this DeSantis thing but I will say :

1. He was a very good baseball player. I suspect that played into his admission to Yale. Maybe not, but it is worth acknowledging as a possibility.

2. In a more general sense there are a lot of people at Yale that aren't all that smart. Do not put too much stock into where someone went to school. I met a young woman yesterday who went to Florida Tech and she is doing amazing research that is coveted by both the DoD and commercial companies. I did ask her how she ended up at such an unknown school. She said that she wanted to go to MIT or Stanford but that at the time she was working for Delta Airlines and Florida Tech was one of the schools that Delta would reimburse tuition for and so she ended up there. She said she has no regrets as her decision worked out very well for her. The field I work in is full of very brilliant engineers and scientists and most of them did not go to Ivy League schools. So what?

3. I have yet to read or hear of something DeSantis has done which is anything but stupid. You may say the same about me, but I am bull****ting on a sports board. This guy is the governor. If he constantly does and says dumb things as part of his job as governor then maybe he just isn't that smart.

By the way, at Cal I took Astronomy. Chemistry, Upper Div Math, Upper Div Physics, upper Div CS and my electives were classes like Philosophy, Economics, Classics, and Anthropology. I never got lower than an A in any non-STEM course and that was with me not devoting much time to it because I was being killed with workload for my other courses. I probably could be an Archaeologist right now as my professor and TAs were really pushing me to go that route and I did well. Would I be smarter if I was an archaeology professor at Harvard or Cambridge or would that have just been a career choice?

I am not going to be one of those people that says people in STEM are smarter than anyone else, because I certainly could not have passed my roommates Spanish and French literature courses that required the essays to be written in the foreign language. We all have unique skills and abilities. Intelligence is hard to quantify.

One of the smartest guys I know is a peon engineer who went to Caltech. He still lives in the same 1 bedroom apartment and drives the same old car he always did. He never advanced in his career. Once he got recruited to be a quant on Wall Street. He doubled his salary but quit within 2 years because he didn't like it, didn't like the people, didn't like New York. He is back to his old job. I guarantee you he is smarter than you, me, and DeSantis but other than his Caltech degree there is nothing that would indicate that. Give him a math problem to solve, though.

---

I think two things will clarify the things you wrote to minimize his experience at Yale and Harvard. Summa cum laude and cum laude. He graduated with exceptionally high grades. So, despite being on the baseball team and working as an electrician in college, he graduated near the top of his class.

Again, he is a bad politician who ran to the right of Trump. That was a dumb move but it does you no good for your arguments and it does not make you seem any less tribal to minimize his academic achievements.

I was in college of chemistry for two years. I admit that the only grades less than an A I received were in organic chemistry and physical chemistry. So I agree that humanities were much easier. But let's not assume you would have gotten into Yale and that you would have graduated summa cum laude.

About solving math problems - I believe he got perfect score on the math portion of the SAT. So maybe he didn't take advance math classes but he probably had the mental capacity to do well.

If you want to make yourself feel better by convincing yourself that you are smarter, won't stop you. But it's stupid to say he is stupid. Trump maybe. But not DeSantis.

---

If he is so smart why does he do and say so many dumb things? Did he take a lot of drugs? Have a stroke? He doesn't act like a smart person. Perhaps he once was smart but he now has diminished capacity.

What can you point to that makes you think he is so smart other than some grades he got 20 years ago at a school which is known for grade inflation? The mean GPA at Yale and Harvard is 3.7.

---

calbear93 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

If he is so smart why does he do and say so many dumb things? Did he take a lot of drugs? Have a stroke? He doesn't act like a smart person. Perhaps he once was smart but he now has diminished capacity.

What can you point to that makes you think he is so smart other than some grades he got 20 years ago at a school which is known for grade inflation? The mean GPA at Yale and Harvard is 3.7.

---

Grade inflation at Harvard?

---

Quote:

---

Grade inflation lives at Harvard University. The Harvard Crimson, the student newspaper, has reported that the median grade at Harvard College is now an A- and students most frequently get A's.

The news was delivered by Dean of Undergraduate Education Jay M. Harris on Tuesday.

...
At Harvard, concerns about grade inflation are nothing new. In 2001, Harvard data showed that 49 percent of undergraduate grades were A's in 2001, up from 23 percent in 1986, according to this New York Times story, which also reported that Harvard grades rose as much from 1930 to 1966 as from 1967 to the present. In fact, a 1984 Harvard report warned that students were getting too many A's and B's.


Harvard isn't the only school that hands out a lot of A's, though. A 2012 study in the Teachers College Record by Stuart Rojstaczer and Christopher Healy found that "A's represent 43% of all letter grades, an increase of 28 percentage points since 1960 and 12 percentage points since 1988." Private colleges and universities give more top grades than public institutions with equal student selectivity, it said.

---

Quote:

---

After a Boston Globe analysis in 2001 found that an astonishing 91 percent of Harvard College students were graduating with honors, officials released data showing that 48.5 percent of grades were A's and A-minuses, compared to 33.2 percent who received those marks in 1985.

In response to the uproar that followed, the faculty capped honors summa, magna, and cum laude at 60 percent. They also pledged to award more B's, a largely self-policing policy, but deans said they would notify department chairman when professors were unusually lenient or stringent. For several years, Harvard officials published annual grade statistics showing that grades were creeping upward.

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

If he is so smart why does he do and say so many dumb things? Did he take a lot of drugs? Have a stroke? He doesn't act like a smart person. Perhaps he once was smart but he now has diminished capacity.

What can you point to that makes you think he is so smart other than some grades he got 20 years ago at a school which is known for grade inflation? The mean GPA at Yale and Harvard is 3.7.

---

Grade inflation at Harvard?

---

Are you serious? This isn't exactly a state secret. I've talked to more than a few Harvard grads that have acknowledged the same. I think Princeton is a little less grade inflation-ey.

Quote:

---

Grade inflation lives at Harvard University. The Harvard Crimson, the student newspaper, has reported that the median grade at Harvard College is now an A- and students most frequently get A's.

The news was delivered by Dean of Undergraduate Education Jay M. Harris on Tuesday.

...
At Harvard, concerns about grade inflation are nothing new. In 2001, Harvard data showed that 49 percent of undergraduate grades were A's in 2001, up from 23 percent in 1986, according to this New York Times story, which also reported that Harvard grades rose as much from 1930 to 1966 as from 1967 to the present. In fact, a 1984 Harvard report warned that students were getting too many A's and B's.


Harvard isn't the only school that hands out a lot of A's, though. A 2012 study in the Teachers College Record by Stuart Rojstaczer and Christopher Healy found that "A's represent 43% of all letter grades, an increase of 28 percentage points since 1960 and 12 percentage points since 1988." Private colleges and universities give more top grades than public institutions with equal student selectivity, it said.

---

In 2001, the Boston Globe reported on it as well (the linked article is from 2013 but references the prior reporting).

Quote:

---

After a Boston Globe analysis in 2001 found that an astonishing 91 percent of Harvard College students were graduating with honors, officials released data showing that 48.5 percent of grades were A's and A-minuses, compared to 33.2 percent who received those marks in 1985.

In response to the uproar that followed, the faculty capped honors summa, magna, and cum laude at 60 percent. They also pledged to award more B's, a largely self-policing policy, but deans said they would notify department chairman when professors were unusually lenient or stringent. For several years, Harvard officials published annual grade statistics showing that grades were creeping upward.

---

By the way, Cal's grades have jumped quite a bit in the last few decades but still remain tougher than the Ivies.

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

I think the my report card is bigger than yours arguments are silly and don't prove much. As for DeSantis, I just judge him by what I see him doing now as Governor of Florida. For one thing, I have a problem with a "smart man" with a Yale History degree being so willing to rewrite history.

---

calbear93 said:

---

Now my turn to ask you a question.

A liberal troll posted an insult (all he does exclusively) using a truly despicable term that demeans women while also using gender identity as an insult.

Assume you are against the attack of LGBTQ by DeSantis out of principle and not just based o. tribalism. What prompts you and other liberals here to excuse posts from that troll when it seems to betray how strongly you truly hold on to your stated principles? I suspect if a right wing poster wrote something here using the same words, there would have been a more violent response. How much of what liberals write here is based on tribalism vs actual principle? Liberal posters here seem to excuse or cheer behavior that betrays stated principles when committed by someone claiming to be liberal. How should we take that?

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

If he is so smart why does he do and say so many dumb things? Did he take a lot of drugs? Have a stroke? He doesn't act like a smart person. Perhaps he once was smart but he now has diminished capacity.

What can you point to that makes you think he is so smart other than some grades he got 20 years ago at a school which is known for grade inflation? The mean GPA at Yale and Harvard is 3.7.

---

Grade inflation at Harvard?

---

Are you serious? This isn't exactly a state secret. I've talked to more than a few Harvard grads that have acknowledged the same. I think Princeton is a little less grade inflation-ey.

Quote:

---

Grade inflation lives at Harvard University. The Harvard Crimson, the student newspaper, has reported that the median grade at Harvard College is now an A- and students most frequently get A's.

The news was delivered by Dean of Undergraduate Education Jay M. Harris on Tuesday.

...
At Harvard, concerns about grade inflation are nothing new. In 2001, Harvard data showed that 49 percent of undergraduate grades were A's in 2001, up from 23 percent in 1986, according to this New York Times story, which also reported that Harvard grades rose as much from 1930 to 1966 as from 1967 to the present. In fact, a 1984 Harvard report warned that students were getting too many A's and B's.


Harvard isn't the only school that hands out a lot of A's, though. A 2012 study in the Teachers College Record by Stuart Rojstaczer and Christopher Healy found that "A's represent 43% of all letter grades, an increase of 28 percentage points since 1960 and 12 percentage points since 1988." Private colleges and universities give more top grades than public institutions with equal student selectivity, it said.

---

In 2001, the Boston Globe reported on it as well (the linked article is from 2013 but references the prior reporting).

Quote:

---

After a Boston Globe analysis in 2001 found that an astonishing 91 percent of Harvard College students were graduating with honors, officials released data showing that 48.5 percent of grades were A's and A-minuses, compared to 33.2 percent who received those marks in 1985.

In response to the uproar that followed, the faculty capped honors summa, magna, and cum laude at 60 percent. They also pledged to award more B's, a largely self-policing policy, but deans said they would notify department chairman when professors were unusually lenient or stringent. For several years, Harvard officials published annual grade statistics showing that grades were creeping upward.

---

By the way, Cal's grades have jumped quite a bit in the last few decades but still remain tougher than the Ivies.

---

OK. From my personal experience, getting A's at UC Berkeley was definitely easier than getting Honors at Harvard Law. But what does personal experience have to do with any of this when you have articles about undergrad.

He graduated with distinction from Harvard Law School and not undergrad. So your points are irrelevant. Law school was not easy.

---

Dimitrig wasn't talking about law school, but it appears that once again you've intertwined your personal story and needlessly taken offense.

91% of Harvard undergrads graduated with honors before they "limited" it to 60%. You were arguing with dimitrig who had the facts on his side and you questioned whether there was grade inflation at Harvard undergrad, which there clearly was/is. I don't see why this is problematic for you to acknowledge.

---

10% For The Big Guy said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

I don't want to dwell on this DeSantis thing but I will say :

1. He was a very good baseball player. I suspect that played into his admission to Yale. Maybe not, but it is worth acknowledging as a possibility.

2. In a more general sense there are a lot of people at Yale that aren't all that smart. Do not put too much stock into where someone went to school. I met a young woman yesterday who went to Florida Tech and she is doing amazing research that is coveted by both the DoD and commercial companies. I did ask her how she ended up at such an unknown school. She said that she wanted to go to MIT or Stanford but that at the time she was working for Delta Airlines and Florida Tech was one of the schools that Delta would reimburse tuition for and so she ended up there. She said she has no regrets as her decision worked out very well for her. The field I work in is full of very brilliant engineers and scientists and most of them did not go to Ivy League schools. So what?

3. I have yet to read or hear of something DeSantis has done which is anything but stupid. You may say the same about me, but I am bull****ting on a sports board. This guy is the governor. If he constantly does and says dumb things as part of his job as governor then maybe he just isn't that smart.

By the way, at Cal I took Astronomy. Chemistry, Upper Div Math, Upper Div Physics, upper Div CS and my electives were classes like Philosophy, Economics, Classics, and Anthropology. I never got lower than an A in any non-STEM course and that was with me not devoting much time to it because I was being killed with workload for my other courses. I probably could be an Archaeologist right now as my professor and TAs were really pushing me to go that route and I did well. Would I be smarter if I was an archaeology professor at Harvard or Cambridge or would that have just been a career choice?

I am not going to be one of those people that says people in STEM are smarter than anyone else, because I certainly could not have passed my roommates Spanish and French literature courses that required the essays to be written in the foreign language. We all have unique skills and abilities. Intelligence is hard to quantify.

One of the smartest guys I know is a peon engineer who went to Caltech. He still lives in the same 1 bedroom apartment and drives the same old car he always did. He never advanced in his career. Once he got recruited to be a quant on Wall Street. He doubled his salary but quit within 2 years because he didn't like it, didn't like the people, didn't like New York. He is back to his old job. I guarantee you he is smarter than you, me, and DeSantis but other than his Caltech degree there is nothing that would indicate that. Give him a math problem to solve, though.

---

I think two things will clarify the things you wrote to minimize his experience at Yale and Harvard. Summa cum laude and cum laude. He graduated with exceptionally high grades. So, despite being on the baseball team and working as an electrician in college, he graduated near the top of his class.

Again, he is a bad politician who ran to the right of Trump. That was a dumb move but it does you no good for your arguments and it does not make you seem any less tribal to minimize his academic achievements.

I was in college of chemistry for two years. I admit that the only grades less than an A I received were in organic chemistry and physical chemistry. So I agree that humanities were much easier. But let's not assume you would have gotten into Yale and that you would have graduated summa cum laude.

About solving math problems - I believe he got perfect score on the math portion of the SAT. So maybe he didn't take advance math classes but he probably had the mental capacity to do well.

If you want to make yourself feel better by convincing yourself that you are smarter, won't stop you. But it's stupid to say he is stupid. Trump maybe. But not DeSantis.

---

If he is so smart why does he do and say so many dumb things? Did he take a lot of drugs? Have a stroke? He doesn't act like a smart person. Perhaps he once was smart but he now has diminished capacity.

What can you point to that makes you think he is so smart other than some grades he got 20 years ago at a school which is known for grade inflation? The mean GPA at Yale and Harvard is 3.7.

---

Grade inflation at Harvard? Guess you are speaking from an area of experience. OK, whatever you need to justify your sense of superiority.

As far as why a smart person is doing a bad job of running a political campaign? I have one word for you.

Hillary.

What is it with people like you and Trump and the need to feel superior beyond what facts dictate?

---

See the thing is, smart people aren't smart people in all situations. There are many different forms of intelligence. Just because a person got good grades doesn't make that person smart.

Take your average BI Off Topic liberal. Sure, they probably all good good grades in high school. Maybe they even got good grades in college. But then you see how easily they are propagandized about things like Russiagate, Ivermectin being horse medicine, the efficacy of the COVID vaccine stopping infection, the Ukraine war going well for Ukraine, and their inability to acknowledge the corruption of their side and you realize these people are in no position to criticize anyone for a lack of smarts

Sure, DeSantis is relatively accomplished compared to your typical BI Off Topic poster. He's governor of a state, has been in Congress, had a legal career in the military, etc. That doesn't mean he has the savvy to know what kind of campaign would appeal broadly to a bunch of different states. Is his problem that Trump does his act much better than he does or that his focus on culture war makes him look like a clown to the people that might not want to vote for Trump? Whatever it is, that's a guy that will never be President. His act might play well in Florida, but not on a national level.

Speaking of Hillary's epic mismanagement of her 2016 Presidential campaign, this book is a great read.

---

OsoDorado said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Now my turn to ask you a question.

A liberal troll posted an insult (all he does exclusively) using a truly despicable term that demeans women while also using gender identity as an insult.

Assume you are against the attack of LGBTQ by DeSantis out of principle and not just based o. tribalism. What prompts you and other liberals here to excuse posts from that troll when it seems to betray how strongly you truly hold on to your stated principles? I suspect if a right wing poster wrote something here using the same words, there would have been a more violent response. How much of what liberals write here is based on tribalism vs actual principle? Liberal posters here seem to excuse or cheer behavior that betrays stated principles when committed by someone claiming to be liberal. How should we take that?

---

Interesting question. I have no idea which post or insult you are specifically referring to. I doubt I read it because it doesn't ring a bell, so I certainly haven't already "excused" it.

In general, I think we should all try to be judicious in choosing our words, even when purposely being insulting. Also, we should try to focus our criticism on fallacious content or reasoning rather than ad hominem attacks.

In response to a poster attacking me as "one of the stupidest" anti-Trump posters here, for example, I replied by giving him reasons for concluding his post was "thoughtless." (I did add however, that the poster himself is "immature for having to hide behind temporary handles.")

Speaking for myself to address your question of tribalism vs. principle, I'll instinctively "support my tribe" whenever possible, which is only when it's consistent with my principles. Put another way, my principles determine my tribe, rather than the other way around.

Most of what I write is motivated by my personal beliefs (i.e., "principles"). Of course it's great there are a lot of Cal grads who are sympathetic to "progressive" views, which is one of the reasons I was attracted to Cal in the first place.

---

AunBear89 said:

---

Cambridge Caren is at it again. Good thing she's here to tell us all how to behave and respect our more successful superiors.



What a c&nt.

---

calbear93 said:

---

OsoDorado said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Now my turn to ask you a question.

A liberal troll posted an insult (all he does exclusively) using a truly despicable term that demeans women while also using gender identity as an insult.

Assume you are against the attack of LGBTQ by DeSantis out of principle and not just based o. tribalism. What prompts you and other liberals here to excuse posts from that troll when it seems to betray how strongly you truly hold on to your stated principles? I suspect if a right wing poster wrote something here using the same words, there would have been a more violent response. How much of what liberals write here is based on tribalism vs actual principle? Liberal posters here seem to excuse or cheer behavior that betrays stated principles when committed by someone claiming to be liberal. How should we take that?

---

Interesting question. I have no idea which post or insult you are specifically referring to. I doubt I read it because it doesn't ring a bell, so I certainly haven't already "excused" it.

In general, I think we should all try to be judicious in choosing our words, even when purposely being insulting. Also, we should try to focus our criticism on fallacious content or reasoning rather than ad hominem attacks.

In response to a poster attacking me as "one of the stupidest" anti-Trump posters here, for example, I replied by giving him reasons for concluding his post was "thoughtless." (I did add however, that the poster himself is "immature for having to hide behind temporary handles.")

Speaking for myself to address your question of tribalism vs. principle, I'll instinctively "support my tribe" whenever possible, which is only when it's consistent with my principles. Put another way, my principles determine my tribe, rather than the other way around.

Most of what I write is motivated by my personal beliefs (i.e., "principles"). Of course it's great there are a lot of Cal grads who are sympathetic to "progressive" views, which is one of the reasons I was attracted to Cal in the first place.

---

AunBear89 said:

---

Cambridge Caren is at it again. Good thing she's here to tell us all how to behave and respect our more successful superiors.



What a c&nt.

---

So here is the quote. And "liberal" posters who are such warriors for LGBTQ and gender rights starred this post and no one called him out in the same way that some conservative posters will call out other conservative posters on principle. The admins deleted, and I understand put him in a penalty box. But all the moral minded liberal folks here? Nope. Rings hollow to me.

Gender identity as an insult and using such toxic term that is demeaning to women? Am I supposed to think that the posters here actually believe any of the progressive things they write here as opposed to just engaging in tribal politics and engaging in virtue signaling? Hard to give the benefit of the doubt when this troll is encouraged time after time to engage in this hypocritical behavior such as these.

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

If he is so smart why does he do and say so many dumb things? Did he take a lot of drugs? Have a stroke? He doesn't act like a smart person. Perhaps he once was smart but he now has diminished capacity.

What can you point to that makes you think he is so smart other than some grades he got 20 years ago at a school which is known for grade inflation? The mean GPA at Yale and Harvard is 3.7.

---

Grade inflation at Harvard?

---

Are you serious? This isn't exactly a state secret. I've talked to more than a few Harvard grads that have acknowledged the same. I think Princeton is a little less grade inflation-ey.

Quote:

---

Grade inflation lives at Harvard University. The Harvard Crimson, the student newspaper, has reported that the median grade at Harvard College is now an A- and students most frequently get A's.

The news was delivered by Dean of Undergraduate Education Jay M. Harris on Tuesday.

...
At Harvard, concerns about grade inflation are nothing new. In 2001, Harvard data showed that 49 percent of undergraduate grades were A's in 2001, up from 23 percent in 1986, according to this New York Times story, which also reported that Harvard grades rose as much from 1930 to 1966 as from 1967 to the present. In fact, a 1984 Harvard report warned that students were getting too many A's and B's.


Harvard isn't the only school that hands out a lot of A's, though. A 2012 study in the Teachers College Record by Stuart Rojstaczer and Christopher Healy found that "A's represent 43% of all letter grades, an increase of 28 percentage points since 1960 and 12 percentage points since 1988." Private colleges and universities give more top grades than public institutions with equal student selectivity, it said.

---

In 2001, the Boston Globe reported on it as well (the linked article is from 2013 but references the prior reporting).

Quote:

---

After a Boston Globe analysis in 2001 found that an astonishing 91 percent of Harvard College students were graduating with honors, officials released data showing that 48.5 percent of grades were A's and A-minuses, compared to 33.2 percent who received those marks in 1985.

In response to the uproar that followed, the faculty capped honors summa, magna, and cum laude at 60 percent. They also pledged to award more B's, a largely self-policing policy, but deans said they would notify department chairman when professors were unusually lenient or stringent. For several years, Harvard officials published annual grade statistics showing that grades were creeping upward.

---

By the way, Cal's grades have jumped quite a bit in the last few decades but still remain tougher than the Ivies.

---

OK. From my personal experience, getting A's at UC Berkeley was definitely easier than getting Honors at Harvard Law. But what does personal experience have to do with any of this when you have articles about undergrad.

He graduated with distinction from Harvard Law School and not undergrad. So your points are irrelevant. Law school was not easy.

---

Dimitrig wasn't talking about law school, but it appears that once again you've intertwined your personal story and needlessly taken offense.

91% of Harvard undergrads graduated with honors before they "limited" it to 60%. You were arguing with dimitrig who had the facts on his side and you questioned whether there was grade inflation at Harvard undergrad, which there clearly was/is. I don't see why this is problematic for you to acknowledge.

---

What does Harvard undergrad have to do with DeSantis and whether he is smart? I think you are losing the plot. We are discussing DeSantis. He didn't attend Harvard undergrad but Harvard Law School. Harvard Law School is not easy, with majority of the folks receiving just a passing grade.

---

Why don't you re-read the exchange? It's all in the quotes above.

I can replay it for you.

Dimitrig said this:

Quote:

---

What can you point to that makes you think he is so smart other than some grades he got 20 years ago at a school which is known for grade inflation? The mean GPA at Yale and Harvard is 3.7.

---

You (apparently taking offense) and responded:

Quote:

---

Grade inflation at Harvard?

---

To which I responded with facts showing that yes, it's been very easy to get very good grades at Harvard. 91% of the class used to graduate with honors!

No need to ask me why we're talking about Harvard, you asked the question. I answered it.

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What the hell are we talking about? Read the context. We were talking about DeSantis being cum laude at Harvard Law School. Why would undergrad be even relevant? Are you going hang your hat on the point that we didn't spell out HLS every single time and referred to Harvard when discussing DeSantis when we clearly discussed where he went to law school earlier? How the hell is Harvard undergrad even relevant? Who has any interest in discussing Harvard undergrad? None of the posters or the subject of the topic went to Harvard undergrad. Heck, why don't we discuss something random like admission standards at Michigan?

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Why are you raging out again about something unimportant?

I did read the context and it was pretty clear what Dimitrig was talking about. He referenced the mean GPA and didn't reference law school at all. Desantis went to Yale undergrad, so there is plenty of context.

You (incredulously?) asked about grade inflation at Harvard. Perhaps because you felt attacked you assumed it had something to do with law school. Maybe this is why you are so enraged.

The facts are what they are. There is grade inflation at Harvard undergrad.

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A 3-year-old child died on a bus of migrants Gov. Greg Abbott had sent to Chicago https://t.co/UwHJNhHQdu

— philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) August 12, 2023

Vivek Ramaswamy performs Lose Yourself at the Iowa State Fair after participating in a “fair side chat” with Gov. Kim Reynolds: pic.twitter.com/tSXwjP0yKi

— Dylan Wells (@dylanewells) August 12, 2023

IOWA: “We want Trump!” Chants are so loud at Desantis that Governor Kim Reynolds stops and tries to scold the audience to get them to stop

Awkward pic.twitter.com/bcjyVK6ftm

— The Tennessee Holler (@TheTNHoller) August 12, 2023

Trump supporter: "I'm gonna vote for the man with the most impeachments and the most indictments, because guess what? He knows where all this corruption is now." pic.twitter.com/TGCuywJMGG

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) August 12, 2023

okaydo said:

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Force? Literally, #MattGaetz ? https://t.co/yeZa1UPffo pic.twitter.com/iwwWsjHIpp

— Patt "Bluechecked" Morrison (@pattmlatimes) August 12, 2023

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bearister said:

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10% For The Big Guy said:

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calbear93 said:

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dimitrig said:

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calbear93 said:

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dimitrig said:

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I don't want to dwell on this DeSantis thing but I will say :

1. He was a very good baseball player. I suspect that played into his admission to Yale. Maybe not, but it is worth acknowledging as a possibility.

2. In a more general sense there are a lot of people at Yale that aren't all that smart. Do not put too much stock into where someone went to school. I met a young woman yesterday who went to Florida Tech and she is doing amazing research that is coveted by both the DoD and commercial companies. I did ask her how she ended up at such an unknown school. She said that she wanted to go to MIT or Stanford but that at the time she was working for Delta Airlines and Florida Tech was one of the schools that Delta would reimburse tuition for and so she ended up there. She said she has no regrets as her decision worked out very well for her. The field I work in is full of very brilliant engineers and scientists and most of them did not go to Ivy League schools. So what?

3. I have yet to read or hear of something DeSantis has done which is anything but stupid. You may say the same about me, but I am bull****ting on a sports board. This guy is the governor. If he constantly does and says dumb things as part of his job as governor then maybe he just isn't that smart.

By the way, at Cal I took Astronomy. Chemistry, Upper Div Math, Upper Div Physics, upper Div CS and my electives were classes like Philosophy, Economics, Classics, and Anthropology. I never got lower than an A in any non-STEM course and that was with me not devoting much time to it because I was being killed with workload for my other courses. I probably could be an Archaeologist right now as my professor and TAs were really pushing me to go that route and I did well. Would I be smarter if I was an archaeology professor at Harvard or Cambridge or would that have just been a career choice?

I am not going to be one of those people that says people in STEM are smarter than anyone else, because I certainly could not have passed my roommates Spanish and French literature courses that required the essays to be written in the foreign language. We all have unique skills and abilities. Intelligence is hard to quantify.

One of the smartest guys I know is a peon engineer who went to Caltech. He still lives in the same 1 bedroom apartment and drives the same old car he always did. He never advanced in his career. Once he got recruited to be a quant on Wall Street. He doubled his salary but quit within 2 years because he didn't like it, didn't like the people, didn't like New York. He is back to his old job. I guarantee you he is smarter than you, me, and DeSantis but other than his Caltech degree there is nothing that would indicate that. Give him a math problem to solve, though.

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I think two things will clarify the things you wrote to minimize his experience at Yale and Harvard. Summa cum laude and cum laude. He graduated with exceptionally high grades. So, despite being on the baseball team and working as an electrician in college, he graduated near the top of his class.

Again, he is a bad politician who ran to the right of Trump. That was a dumb move but it does you no good for your arguments and it does not make you seem any less tribal to minimize his academic achievements.

I was in college of chemistry for two years. I admit that the only grades less than an A I received were in organic chemistry and physical chemistry. So I agree that humanities were much easier. But let's not assume you would have gotten into Yale and that you would have graduated summa cum laude.

About solving math problems - I believe he got perfect score on the math portion of the SAT. So maybe he didn't take advance math classes but he probably had the mental capacity to do well.

If you want to make yourself feel better by convincing yourself that you are smarter, won't stop you. But it's stupid to say he is stupid. Trump maybe. But not DeSantis.

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If he is so smart why does he do and say so many dumb things? Did he take a lot of drugs? Have a stroke? He doesn't act like a smart person. Perhaps he once was smart but he now has diminished capacity.

What can you point to that makes you think he is so smart other than some grades he got 20 years ago at a school which is known for grade inflation? The mean GPA at Yale and Harvard is 3.7.

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Grade inflation at Harvard? Guess you are speaking from an area of experience. OK, whatever you need to justify your sense of superiority.

As far as why a smart person is doing a bad job of running a political campaign? I have one word for you.

Hillary.

What is it with people like you and Trump and the need to feel superior beyond what facts dictate?

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See the thing is, smart people aren't smart people in all situations. There are many different forms of intelligence. Just because a person got good grades doesn't make that person smart.

Take your average BI Off Topic liberal. Sure, they probably all good good grades in high school. Maybe they even got good grades in college. But then you see how easily they are propagandized about things like Russiagate, Ivermectin being horse medicine, the efficacy of the COVID vaccine stopping infection, the Ukraine war going well for Ukraine, and their inability to acknowledge the corruption of their side and you realize these people are in no position to criticize anyone for a lack of smarts

Sure, DeSantis is relatively accomplished compared to your typical BI Off Topic poster. He's governor of a state, has been in Congress, had a legal career in the military, etc. That doesn't mean he has the savvy to know what kind of campaign would appeal broadly to a bunch of different states. Is his problem that Trump does his act much better than he does or that his focus on culture war makes him look like a clown to the people that might not want to vote for Trump? Whatever it is, that's a guy that will never be President. His act might play well in Florida, but not on a national level.

Speaking of Hillary's epic mismanagement of her 2016 Presidential campaign, this book is a great read.

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"See the thing is, smart people aren't smart people in all situations."

No one on BI is willing to concede that you are smart, at least by any meaningful definition of that word, but for the sake of argument, let's assume that you are smart.

Share with us what situation(s) you believe that you are smart in.

"Take your average BI Off Topic liberal."

You used to be a liberal before Bernie got shredded and sh@it out by Hillary in 2016. Then, like all bitter Bernie babies, you broke your toys, went anarchist, voted for tRump twice (and pretend that you didn't) to destroy the country that Bernie wasn't allowed to mold. You have been an advocate on BI for the Right Wing ever since and I assume you realize they are the only ones that star your posts.

For the sake of argument, let's pretend you are still a liberal.

Are you above average or below average in intelligence for a BI liberal? Elaborate.

"Sure, DeSantis is relatively accomplished compared to your typical BI Off Topic poster."

Is DeSantis relatively accomplished compared to you?

Are you a typical BI Off Topic poster? If not, why not?

…and last, but not least, you are the most insufferably arrogant and patronizing poster on BI and you don't have the goods to justify being that way.

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