Back to the Nordstream sabotage --

In the coming weeks, keep your eyes on European protests against the Russian sanctions, especially in Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=protest+against+sanctions+in+europe&sp=CAI%253D

As I said before, there was (and is) a strong movement in Germany to dump the sanctions against Russia, and resume gas deliveries through the Nordstream pipelines.

Elected German politicians are not free to express their desire for an end to the conflict, and an end to the sanctions. But talking to people on the street, especially in Europe's working classes, who are hit the hardest by the sanctions (and huge increases in energy costs), there's far less patience for the U.S. desire to prolong the conflict, and engage in a proxy war at Europe's expense.

The U.S. narrative has been that Russia is close to collapse, urging Europe, "Just a little bit longer -- we're almost there... Victory is just around the corner..."

The reality is that the NATO/Europe coalition is in for a brutal winter without Russian gas. The EU might not survive, economically.

It's clear that the U.S. had everything to gain by sabotaging the Nordstream pipelines between Germany & Russia. Germany was going to violate the sanctions before people started dying of hypothermia.

It's only a short-term gain, though. Russia isn't anywhere near as close to collapse, nor as desperate, as U.S. media is portraying. In the long run, the U.S. proves that its goal of "regime change" in Russia is all that it cares about, and it doesn't give a rat's rear about anyone's economic hardship or freezing to death, either in Europe or the U.S., or anywhere.

Expect markets in Europe & the U.S. to continue to tank, as businesses in Europe are forced to close due to extreme energy costs, and price gouging by U.S. LNG suppliers.

cbbass1 said:

---

Back to the Nordstream sabotage --

In the coming weeks, keep your eyes on European protests against the Russian sanctions, especially in Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=protest+against+sanctions+in+europe&sp=CAI%253D

As I said before, there was (and is) a strong movement in Germany to dump the sanctions against Russia, and resume gas deliveries through the Nordstream pipelines.

Elected German politicians are not free to express their desire for an end to the conflict, and an end to the sanctions. But talking to people on the street, especially in Europe's working classes, who are hit the hardest by the sanctions (and huge increases in energy costs), there's far less patience for the U.S. desire to prolong the conflict, and engage in a proxy war at Europe's expense.

The U.S. narrative has been that Russia is close to collapse, urging Europe, "Just a little bit longer -- we're almost there... Victory is just around the corner..."

The reality is that the NATO/Europe coalition is in for a brutal winter without Russian gas. The EU might not survive, economically.

It's clear that the U.S. had everything to gain by sabotaging the Nordstream pipelines between Germany & Russia. Germany was going to violate the sanctions before people started dying of hypothermia.

It's only a short-term gain, though. Russia isn't anywhere near as close to collapse, nor as desperate, as U.S. media is portraying. In the long run, the U.S. proves that its goal of "regime change" in Russia is all that it cares about, and it doesn't give a rat's rear about anyone's economic hardship or freezing to death, either in Europe or the U.S., or anywhere.

Expect markets in Europe & the U.S. to continue to tank, as businesses in Europe are forced to close due to extreme energy costs, and price gouging by U.S. LNG suppliers.

---

Just because you had everything to gain, does not mean you committed the crime. That is dumb logic.

Furthermore, I would like to reiterate that the US did not coax Russia into invading Ukraine so they would have the opportunity for regime change in Russia. Russia chose to invade Ukraine because they wanted to believe Ukraine doesn't have a right to exist and they wanted their land.

I'd also like to point out that the USA is not even Ukraine's most fervent supporter of Ukraine. That would be Poland, and the Baltic states. The countries that were under Soviet occupation 30 years ago, saw the inner workings of the Russian/Soviet system and want nothing to do with it. Poland and the Baltic states need Russia to lose in Ukraine as they are very afraid of being invaded next.

AunBear89 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

As for who blew up the pipelines, I doubt it was the US because it's not that important to us and the downside if caught is meaningful - a further erosion of our reputation. I understand why people who support Russia and other anti-US people would accuse the US - it's an easy accusation to make.

---

Do you know the US was going to use an empty jet during the cuban missile crisis and blow it up to blame Cuba and start a war there? Do you know that Edward Snowden uncovered the US governments illegal spying on its own citizens? We fought an unauthorized war in Vietnam, We used "Weapons of Mass Destruction" lies to start a war in Iraq. If you think our government is beyond doing this, you're hopeless.

---

Anyone want to inform or resident "MENSA" that all those things were hatched by Republicans?

---

I spoke to a member of Mensa and he reported to me that John Kennedy was both a democrat and president during the Cuban missile crisis. That same person told me that both Kennedy and Johnson (again, both reportedly Democrats) were responsible for the US's escalating involvement in Vietnam. A war that continued under Nixon, who escalated further and then ended it.

I do grant you that today, John Kennedy's positions and policies would certainly make him a republican today.

Back to topic.

I was in a very random social setting this weekend (not at Boston Market). I happened to be seated at a table with a person who I had never met before and, unbeknownst to me, is a major operator in the Washington DC foreign policy world. Not a politician/diplomat, but someone who absolutely is a Washington insider.

We were chatting about jobs and he gave me a general description of what he did. Before I fully understood who he was, I point blank asked him what he thought happened to the pipelines. His view was that it was the US perhaps acting through a proxy. He felt it was, in large part, designed to lock in the European countries and their populations who would soon be clamoring for gas. He also felt that it was very damaging to Putin (i.e., Putin would never blow up his own pipeline).

To be clear, based on what I subsequently learned when I googled his name, this person probably is not directly privy to secret information or intelligence. But he absolutely would be directly in the social/business circle with people who are and his career is entirely predicated on operating in that world. So his opinion would be colored by pretty solid information (but he claimed no first hand knowledge).

On a related note, it is interesting to me how so many in the US (and by extension on this board) are conditioned to unquestionably blame everything on Russia. It is possible that Putin blew up the pipeline, but no one has offered me a convincing explanation as to why that is clearly (or even most likely) the case.

BearGoggles said:

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AunBear89 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

As for who blew up the pipelines, I doubt it was the US because it's not that important to us and the downside if caught is meaningful - a further erosion of our reputation. I understand why people who support Russia and other anti-US people would accuse the US - it's an easy accusation to make.

---

Do you know the US was going to use an empty jet during the cuban missile crisis and blow it up to blame Cuba and start a war there? Do you know that Edward Snowden uncovered the US governments illegal spying on its own citizens? We fought an unauthorized war in Vietnam, We used "Weapons of Mass Destruction" lies to start a war in Iraq. If you think our government is beyond doing this, you're hopeless.

---

Anyone want to inform or resident "MENSA" that all those things were hatched by Republicans?

---

I spoke to a member of Mensa and he reported to me that John Kennedy was both a democrat and president during the Cuban missile crisis. That same person told me that both Kennedy and Johnson (again, both reportedly Democrats) were responsible for the US's escalating involvement in Vietnam. A war that continued under Nixon, who escalated further and then ended it.

I do grant you that today, John Kennedy's positions and policies would certainly make him a republican today.

---

Did your Mensa buddy point out that Robert McNamara, the Secretary of Defense for both Kennedy and Johnson, and the man who came up with all the Cuban nonsense and the escalation in Nam, was a Republican until Watergate made him switch parties? I guess the lies and hypocrisy became too much for even him.

cbbass1 said:

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AunBear89 said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

As for who blew up the pipelines, I doubt it was the US because it's not that important to us and the downside if caught is meaningful - a further erosion of our reputation. I understand why people who support Russia and other anti-US people would accuse the US - it's an easy accusation to make.

---

Do you know the US was going to use an empty jet during the cuban missile crisis and blow it up to blame Cuba and start a war there? Do you know that Edward Snowden uncovered the US governments illegal spying on its own citizens? We fought an unauthorized war in Vietnam, We used "Weapons of Mass Destruction" lies to start a war in Iraq. If you think our government is beyond doing this, you're hopeless.

---

Anyone want to inform or resident "MENSA" that all those things were hatched by Republicans?

---

I spoke to a member of Mensa and he reported to me that John Kennedy was both a democrat and president during the Cuban missile crisis. That same person told me that both Kennedy and Johnson (again, both reportedly Democrats) were responsible for the US's escalating involvement in Vietnam. A war that continued under Nixon, who escalated further and then ended it.

I do grant you that today, John Kennedy's positions and policies would certainly make him a republican today.

---

Did your Mensa buddy point out that Robert McNamara, the Secretary of Defense for both Kennedy and Johnson, and the man who came up with all the Cuban nonsense and the escalation in Nam, was a Republican until Watergate made him switch parties? I guess the lies and hypocrisy became too much for even him.

---

JFK a Republican??

Please tell us which JFK policy positions would make him a Republican, in your view.

I'm not seeing it from here.

---

He lowered the marginal tax rates because he saw it encouraged work, investment and risk taking which is what Reagan did in the 80s. Reagan gave him all the credit as well.

MinotStateBeav said:

---

cbbass1 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

As for who blew up the pipelines, I doubt it was the US because it's not that important to us and the downside if caught is meaningful - a further erosion of our reputation. I understand why people who support Russia and other anti-US people would accuse the US - it's an easy accusation to make.

---

Do you know the US was going to use an empty jet during the cuban missile crisis and blow it up to blame Cuba and start a war there? Do you know that Edward Snowden uncovered the US governments illegal spying on its own citizens? We fought an unauthorized war in Vietnam, We used "Weapons of Mass Destruction" lies to start a war in Iraq. If you think our government is beyond doing this, you're hopeless.

---

Anyone want to inform or resident "MENSA" that all those things were hatched by Republicans?

---

I spoke to a member of Mensa and he reported to me that John Kennedy was both a democrat and president during the Cuban missile crisis. That same person told me that both Kennedy and Johnson (again, both reportedly Democrats) were responsible for the US's escalating involvement in Vietnam. A war that continued under Nixon, who escalated further and then ended it.

I do grant you that today, John Kennedy's positions and policies would certainly make him a republican today.

---

Did your Mensa buddy point out that Robert McNamara, the Secretary of Defense for both Kennedy and Johnson, and the man who came up with all the Cuban nonsense and the escalation in Nam, was a Republican until Watergate made him switch parties? I guess the lies and hypocrisy became too much for even him.

---

JFK a Republican??

Please tell us which JFK policy positions would make him a Republican, in your view.

I'm not seeing it from here.

---

He lowered the marginal tax rates because he saw it encouraged work, investment and risk taking which is what Reagan did in the 80s. Reagan gave him all the credit as well.

---

True.

He lowered the top marginal tax rate from 91% down to 70%
But JFK's biggest tax cuts were aimed at average wage earners in the hopes they would spend more.
And between 1962 and 1966, the Dow Jones nearly doubled as the deficit actually shrunk.

Kennedy also increased the minimum wage, expanded unemployment bennies, boosted social security benefits to encourage workers to retire earlier, and increased spending on highway construction.

It was literally the GOLDEN YEARS in the mid-1960's where the United States enjoyed one of the most robust economic expansions in history. - - - By 1966, GDP was growing at a rate of 6.6%

cbbass1 said:

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AunBear89 said:

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BearGoggles said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

As for who blew up the pipelines, I doubt it was the US because it's not that important to us and the downside if caught is meaningful - a further erosion of our reputation. I understand why people who support Russia and other anti-US people would accuse the US - it's an easy accusation to make.

---

Do you know the US was going to use an empty jet during the cuban missile crisis and blow it up to blame Cuba and start a war there? Do you know that Edward Snowden uncovered the US governments illegal spying on its own citizens? We fought an unauthorized war in Vietnam, We used "Weapons of Mass Destruction" lies to start a war in Iraq. If you think our government is beyond doing this, you're hopeless.

---

Anyone want to inform or resident "MENSA" that all those things were hatched by Republicans?

---

I spoke to a member of Mensa and he reported to me that John Kennedy was both a democrat and president during the Cuban missile crisis. That same person told me that both Kennedy and Johnson (again, both reportedly Democrats) were responsible for the US's escalating involvement in Vietnam. A war that continued under Nixon, who escalated further and then ended it.

I do grant you that today, John Kennedy's positions and policies would certainly make him a republican today.

---

Did your Mensa buddy point out that Robert McNamara, the Secretary of Defense for both Kennedy and Johnson, and the man who came up with all the Cuban nonsense and the escalation in Nam, was a Republican until Watergate made him switch parties? I guess the lies and hypocrisy became too much for even him.

---

JFK a Republican??

Please tell us which JFK policy positions would make him a Republican, in your view.

I'm not seeing it from here.

---

Kennedy was anti-communist/socialist, anti-abortion, VERY pro-Israel (he coined the "special relationship"), anti-quota/affirmative action, a free trader (anti-tariff), deeply religious, increased military budgets, fiscally conservative (low deficit/strong dollar), pro-death penalty, an NRA member, and basically a supply sider who cut taxes to stimulate growth (famously claiming a rising tide lifts all boats).

In today's world, those are views mostly associated with conservatives/republicans - though recent republican populism makes it less widespread. But certainly most of those positions are anathema to the democrat party platform.

AunBear89 said:

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None of them planned Bay of Pigs. What's your point, other than pretending that this shows how clever you are?

---

My point is that its idiotic to ignore that democrat presidents did certain things - indisputably - and instead try to blame their subordinates. It takes a special type of partisanship to go cherry picking for republicans subordinates, while ignoring the democrat subordinates (who acted similarly) and thereby attempt to blame only the republicans aides.

The only way your comments absolving the presidents for their own polices make sense is if you think the democrat presidents are so incredibly stupid that they cannot resist the advice of their republican (and as it turns out democrat) aides. I am actually willing to belief Biden is a captive to his aides - but not Kennedy or Johnson.

AunBear89 said:

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You are assigning motivation to my statements that supports your blatant bias towards all things not- conservative. I was not absolving anyone, I was pointing out the stupidity of one of your fellow MAGAts.

---

Liberals on BI do this relentlessly. It is tough both ways.

BearGoggles said:

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cbbass1 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

As for who blew up the pipelines, I doubt it was the US because it's not that important to us and the downside if caught is meaningful - a further erosion of our reputation. I understand why people who support Russia and other anti-US people would accuse the US - it's an easy accusation to make.

---

Do you know the US was going to use an empty jet during the cuban missile crisis and blow it up to blame Cuba and start a war there? Do you know that Edward Snowden uncovered the US governments illegal spying on its own citizens? We fought an unauthorized war in Vietnam, We used "Weapons of Mass Destruction" lies to start a war in Iraq. If you think our government is beyond doing this, you're hopeless.

---

Anyone want to inform or resident "MENSA" that all those things were hatched by Republicans?

---

I spoke to a member of Mensa and he reported to me that John Kennedy was both a democrat and president during the Cuban missile crisis. That same person told me that both Kennedy and Johnson (again, both reportedly Democrats) were responsible for the US's escalating involvement in Vietnam. A war that continued under Nixon, who escalated further and then ended it.

I do grant you that today, John Kennedy's positions and policies would certainly make him a republican today.

---

Did your Mensa buddy point out that Robert McNamara, the Secretary of Defense for both Kennedy and Johnson, and the man who came up with all the Cuban nonsense and the escalation in Nam, was a Republican until Watergate made him switch parties? I guess the lies and hypocrisy became too much for even him.

---

JFK a Republican??

Please tell us which JFK policy positions would make him a Republican, in your view.

I'm not seeing it from here.

---

Kennedy was anti-communist/socialist, anti-abortion, VERY pro-Israel (he coined the "special relationship"), anti-quota/affirmative action, a free trader (anti-tariff), deeply religious, increased military budgets, fiscally conservative (low deficit/strong dollar), pro-death penalty, an NRA member, and basically a supply sider who cut taxes to stimulate growth (famously claiming a rising tide lifts all boats).

In today's world, those are views mostly associated with conservatives/republicans - though recent republican populism makes it less widespread. But certainly most of those positions are anathema to the democrat party platform.

---

Believe it or not, "progressive" politics might have progressed after 60 years.

DiabloWags said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Could the US have done it? Ukraine? Britain? Who has something to gain by doing it? It does look sus that the new Baltic/Poland pipeline just came online.

---

You watch too much Tucker Carlson.

Tucker Carlson suggests US blew up Nord Stream pipeline and lists possible Russian 'retaliations' (yahoo.com)

---

What do you make of Bidens comments in February promising we will stop the pipeline?

sycasey said:

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BearGoggles said:

---

cbbass1 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

As for who blew up the pipelines, I doubt it was the US because it's not that important to us and the downside if caught is meaningful - a further erosion of our reputation. I understand why people who support Russia and other anti-US people would accuse the US - it's an easy accusation to make.

---

Do you know the US was going to use an empty jet during the cuban missile crisis and blow it up to blame Cuba and start a war there? Do you know that Edward Snowden uncovered the US governments illegal spying on its own citizens? We fought an unauthorized war in Vietnam, We used "Weapons of Mass Destruction" lies to start a war in Iraq. If you think our government is beyond doing this, you're hopeless.

---

Anyone want to inform or resident "MENSA" that all those things were hatched by Republicans?

---

I spoke to a member of Mensa and he reported to me that John Kennedy was both a democrat and president during the Cuban missile crisis. That same person told me that both Kennedy and Johnson (again, both reportedly Democrats) were responsible for the US's escalating involvement in Vietnam. A war that continued under Nixon, who escalated further and then ended it.

I do grant you that today, John Kennedy's positions and policies would certainly make him a republican today.

---

Did your Mensa buddy point out that Robert McNamara, the Secretary of Defense for both Kennedy and Johnson, and the man who came up with all the Cuban nonsense and the escalation in Nam, was a Republican until Watergate made him switch parties? I guess the lies and hypocrisy became too much for even him.

---

JFK a Republican??

Please tell us which JFK policy positions would make him a Republican, in your view.

I'm not seeing it from here.

---

Kennedy was anti-communist/socialist, anti-abortion, VERY pro-Israel (he coined the "special relationship"), anti-quota/affirmative action, a free trader (anti-tariff), deeply religious, increased military budgets, fiscally conservative (low deficit/strong dollar), pro-death penalty, an NRA member, and basically a supply sider who cut taxes to stimulate growth (famously claiming a rising tide lifts all boats).

In today's world, those are views mostly associated with conservatives/republicans - though recent republican populism makes it less widespread. But certainly most of those positions are anathema to the democrat party platform.

---

Believe it or not, "progressive" politics might have progressed after 60 years.

---

That is exactly my point. The progressives have "progressed" so far that Kennedy's views correspond to today's republican party. The irony being that Kennedy remains a hero/icon to the left.

And, of course, we can agree to disagree as to whether the left's evolving policies are truly progress. Biden's economy and awful foreign policy results would suggest otherwise.

BearGoggles said:

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sycasey said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

cbbass1 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

As for who blew up the pipelines, I doubt it was the US because it's not that important to us and the downside if caught is meaningful - a further erosion of our reputation. I understand why people who support Russia and other anti-US people would accuse the US - it's an easy accusation to make.

---

Do you know the US was going to use an empty jet during the cuban missile crisis and blow it up to blame Cuba and start a war there? Do you know that Edward Snowden uncovered the US governments illegal spying on its own citizens? We fought an unauthorized war in Vietnam, We used "Weapons of Mass Destruction" lies to start a war in Iraq. If you think our government is beyond doing this, you're hopeless.

---

Anyone want to inform or resident "MENSA" that all those things were hatched by Republicans?

---

I spoke to a member of Mensa and he reported to me that John Kennedy was both a democrat and president during the Cuban missile crisis. That same person told me that both Kennedy and Johnson (again, both reportedly Democrats) were responsible for the US's escalating involvement in Vietnam. A war that continued under Nixon, who escalated further and then ended it.

I do grant you that today, John Kennedy's positions and policies would certainly make him a republican today.

---

Did your Mensa buddy point out that Robert McNamara, the Secretary of Defense for both Kennedy and Johnson, and the man who came up with all the Cuban nonsense and the escalation in Nam, was a Republican until Watergate made him switch parties? I guess the lies and hypocrisy became too much for even him.

---

JFK a Republican??

Please tell us which JFK policy positions would make him a Republican, in your view.

I'm not seeing it from here.

---

Kennedy was anti-communist/socialist, anti-abortion, VERY pro-Israel (he coined the "special relationship"), anti-quota/affirmative action, a free trader (anti-tariff), deeply religious, increased military budgets, fiscally conservative (low deficit/strong dollar), pro-death penalty, an NRA member, and basically a supply sider who cut taxes to stimulate growth (famously claiming a rising tide lifts all boats).

In today's world, those are views mostly associated with conservatives/republicans - though recent republican populism makes it less widespread. But certainly most of those positions are anathema to the democrat party platform.

---

Believe it or not, "progressive" politics might have progressed after 60 years.

---

That is exactly my point. The progressives have "progressed" so far that Kennedy's views correspond to today's republican party. The irony being that Kennedy remains a hero/icon to the left.

And, of course, we can agree to disagree as to whether the left's evolving policies are truly progress. Biden's economy and awful foreign policy results would suggest otherwise.

---

I think you are confusing today's Republican Party with the Republican Party of another era.

Today's Republican Party considers John McCain and George Bush (both of them) to be RINOs.

Do you really think JFK would be nominated for any office by today's GOP?

Today's GOP can't even be bothered to convict Donald Trump to ensure he couldn't run for office again. That's a far cry from how they handled the Richard Nixon investigation.

The GOP used to have values opposed to mine, but they were patriots and they loved America. Today's GOP will gladly destroy American institutions, even kill Americans, in order to hold on to power and make more money for their benefactors.

They have lost their way so much so that they consider Liz Cheney (Dick freaking Cheney's daughter!), a congresswoman who voted with Trump 92.9% of the time, a traitor to their party because she has a conscience.

Get out of here with that weak "JFK's views correspond to today's Republican Party" sauce.

dimitrig said:

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BearGoggles said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

cbbass1 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

As for who blew up the pipelines, I doubt it was the US because it's not that important to us and the downside if caught is meaningful - a further erosion of our reputation. I understand why people who support Russia and other anti-US people would accuse the US - it's an easy accusation to make.

---

Do you know the US was going to use an empty jet during the cuban missile crisis and blow it up to blame Cuba and start a war there? Do you know that Edward Snowden uncovered the US governments illegal spying on its own citizens? We fought an unauthorized war in Vietnam, We used "Weapons of Mass Destruction" lies to start a war in Iraq. If you think our government is beyond doing this, you're hopeless.

---

Anyone want to inform or resident "MENSA" that all those things were hatched by Republicans?

---

I spoke to a member of Mensa and he reported to me that John Kennedy was both a democrat and president during the Cuban missile crisis. That same person told me that both Kennedy and Johnson (again, both reportedly Democrats) were responsible for the US's escalating involvement in Vietnam. A war that continued under Nixon, who escalated further and then ended it.

I do grant you that today, John Kennedy's positions and policies would certainly make him a republican today.

---

Did your Mensa buddy point out that Robert McNamara, the Secretary of Defense for both Kennedy and Johnson, and the man who came up with all the Cuban nonsense and the escalation in Nam, was a Republican until Watergate made him switch parties? I guess the lies and hypocrisy became too much for even him.

---

JFK a Republican??

Please tell us which JFK policy positions would make him a Republican, in your view.

I'm not seeing it from here.

---

Kennedy was anti-communist/socialist, anti-abortion, VERY pro-Israel (he coined the "special relationship"), anti-quota/affirmative action, a free trader (anti-tariff), deeply religious, increased military budgets, fiscally conservative (low deficit/strong dollar), pro-death penalty, an NRA member, and basically a supply sider who cut taxes to stimulate growth (famously claiming a rising tide lifts all boats).

In today's world, those are views mostly associated with conservatives/republicans - though recent republican populism makes it less widespread. But certainly most of those positions are anathema to the democrat party platform.

---

Believe it or not, "progressive" politics might have progressed after 60 years.

---

That is exactly my point. The progressives have "progressed" so far that Kennedy's views correspond to today's republican party. The irony being that Kennedy remains a hero/icon to the left.

And, of course, we can agree to disagree as to whether the left's evolving policies are truly progress. Biden's economy and awful foreign policy results would suggest otherwise.

---

I think you are confusing today's Republican Party with the Republican Party of another era.

Today's Republican Party considers John McCain and George Bush (both of them) to be RINOs.

Do you really think JFK would be nominated for any office by today's GOP?

Today's GOP can't even be bothered to convict Donald Trump to ensure he couldn't run for office again. That's a far cry from how they handled the Richard Nixon investigation.

The GOP used to have values opposed to mine, but they were patriots and they loved America. Today's GOP will gladly destroy American institutions, even kill Americans, in order to hold on to power and make more money for their benefactors.

They have lost their way so much so that they consider Liz Cheney (Dick freaking Cheney's daughter!), a congresswoman who voted with Trump 92.9% of the time, a traitor to their party because she has a conscience.

Get out of here with that weak "JFK's views correspond to today's Republican Party" sauce.

---

Talk about painting with a broad brush. I can do the same thing.

JFK would not be nominated for any office by today's Democrat Party.

Today's democrat party can't even be bothered to condemn overt anti-Semitism and racism from its most prominent leaders and supporters including the squad.

Today's democrat party is so intent on keeping power it nominated a senile candidate and, upon his election, refuses to acknowledge the obvious fact that he's impaired.

Today's democrat party has gone from abortion being safe, legal and rare to viewing the killing of fetuses as something to be promoted and celebrated as "brave".

Today's democrat party has abandoned all notions of "liberal" first amendment protections and is explicitly and overtly anti-free speech, anti-religion, and hyper-racial (and in some cases racist).

Todays democrat party has partnered with big tech to silence its political opponents.

Today's democrat party remarkably supports the Cheney and Bush families - I'm old enough to remember when they were considered Htiler-like war criminals - all to advance partisan agendas.

Todays democrat party has become captive to wall street and other monied interest - the same criticism. leveled against Republicans in years past. But look at the wall street donations now, not to mention crony capitalism.

Today's democrat party undermines election integrity with policies like ballot harvesting and in fact has rigged its own primaries (talk to Bernie Sanders).

Today's democrat party pursues foreign wars and intervention with gusto - the new neocons (or perhaps a return to democrat neocon roots).

Today's democrat party tolerates (and in some casers actively supports) insurrection, looting, violent protests, and riots - but only by its voters.

Today's democrat party supports criminals with "social justice" agendas (e.g., no-bail policies) and other woke prosecutors' who refuse to enforce the law.

Today's democrat party supports rogue nations like Iran that are the worst violators of human rights.

Today's democrat party has pursued an open border policy that puts the interest of illegal immigrants ahead of citizens and has created much suffering by both groups, including fentanyl deaths.

Today's democrat party is led by a cadre of ancient leaders who have corruptly clung to power and used that power to accumulate massive wealth (including insider trading). How did Schumer, Bernie and Biden - who spent their entire lives in "public service" - become so wealthy?

Today's democrat party has attacked institutions, broken congressional and governmental norms, The use of executive orders which were knowingly and admittedly illegal (DACA, student loans) is no longer a problem.

Today's democrat party has demonstrated the worst impulses for authoritarian governance and control. Covid is an emergency when it supports outlandish policies (student loan forgiveness) and the Dems accumulation of power, but not a problem when it supports dem policies (immigration).

Get out of here with your bull shyte "I'm a patriot and you're not" arguments. That is the exact cudgel that republicans used to use against Dems - which Dems used to object to. It is disgusting.

dimitrig said:

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Today's GOP can't even be bothered to convict Donald Trump to ensure he couldn't run for office again. That's a far cry from how they handled the Richard Nixon investigation.

The GOP used to have values opposed to mine, but they were patriots and they loved America. Today's GOP will gladly destroy American institutions, even kill Americans, in order to hold on to power and make more money for their benefactors.

They have lost their way so much so that they consider Liz Cheney (Dick freaking Cheney's daughter!), a congresswoman who voted with Trump 92.9% of the time, a traitor to their party because she has a conscience.

Get out of here with that weak "JFK's views correspond to today's Republican Party" sauce.

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Stop it.
You're making TOO MUCH SENSE.

BearGoggles said:

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sycasey said:

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BearGoggles said:

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cbbass1 said:

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AunBear89 said:

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BearGoggles said:

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AunBear89 said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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As for who blew up the pipelines, I doubt it was the US because it's not that important to us and the downside if caught is meaningful - a further erosion of our reputation. I understand why people who support Russia and other anti-US people would accuse the US - it's an easy accusation to make.

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Do you know the US was going to use an empty jet during the cuban missile crisis and blow it up to blame Cuba and start a war there? Do you know that Edward Snowden uncovered the US governments illegal spying on its own citizens? We fought an unauthorized war in Vietnam, We used "Weapons of Mass Destruction" lies to start a war in Iraq. If you think our government is beyond doing this, you're hopeless.

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Anyone want to inform or resident "MENSA" that all those things were hatched by Republicans?

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I spoke to a member of Mensa and he reported to me that John Kennedy was both a democrat and president during the Cuban missile crisis. That same person told me that both Kennedy and Johnson (again, both reportedly Democrats) were responsible for the US's escalating involvement in Vietnam. A war that continued under Nixon, who escalated further and then ended it.

I do grant you that today, John Kennedy's positions and policies would certainly make him a republican today.

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Did your Mensa buddy point out that Robert McNamara, the Secretary of Defense for both Kennedy and Johnson, and the man who came up with all the Cuban nonsense and the escalation in Nam, was a Republican until Watergate made him switch parties? I guess the lies and hypocrisy became too much for even him.

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JFK a Republican??

Please tell us which JFK policy positions would make him a Republican, in your view.

I'm not seeing it from here.

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Kennedy was anti-communist/socialist, anti-abortion, VERY pro-Israel (he coined the "special relationship"), anti-quota/affirmative action, a free trader (anti-tariff), deeply religious, increased military budgets, fiscally conservative (low deficit/strong dollar), pro-death penalty, an NRA member, and basically a supply sider who cut taxes to stimulate growth (famously claiming a rising tide lifts all boats).

In today's world, those are views mostly associated with conservatives/republicans - though recent republican populism makes it less widespread. But certainly most of those positions are anathema to the democrat party platform.

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Believe it or not, "progressive" politics might have progressed after 60 years.

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That is exactly my point. The progressives have "progressed" so far that Kennedy's views correspond to today's republican party. The irony being that Kennedy remains a hero/icon to the left.

And, of course, we can agree to disagree as to whether the left's evolving policies are truly progress. Biden's economy and awful foreign policy results would suggest otherwise.

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Maybe some people can see that while Kennedy was progressive for his day, things have changed and there are different standards now.

I'm not sure what you mean about Biden's awful foreign policy. Is it just the messy Afghanistan withdrawal? That was messy, but ultimately the result is the right one for the US.

NVBear78 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Could the US have done it? Ukraine? Britain? Who has something to gain by doing it? It does look sus that the new Baltic/Poland pipeline just came online.

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You watch too much Tucker Carlson.

Tucker Carlson suggests US blew up Nord Stream pipeline and lists possible Russian 'retaliations' (yahoo.com)

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What do you make of Bidens comments in February promising we will stop the pipeline?

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When you look at all the evidence, it's overwhelmingly in favor of the U.S., either directly or indirectly, sabotaging the Nordstream Pipeline. You have to remember that when it comes to the U.S. military & foreign policy, there's very little distance between the interests of oil companies and the interests of the U.S. military.

If they're willing to lie us into an illegal war to invade & occupy Iraq, and to procure their oil fields, I'd say that there isn't much that they won't do. At our expense.

This is a pretty comprehensive assessment.
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/10/12/scott-ritter-pipelines-v-usa/

I know that many of you dismiss Scott Ritter because he's a "Russian propagandist." However, in this case, he's just telling the truth. Follow the links, & do your due diligence. If you think he's lying, show us something more credible.
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/cia-warned-berlin-about-nord-stream-attack-weeks-ahead:-repo

Would the U.S. stab an "ally" in the back? Absolutely. And that "ally" won't say a word. Because where U.S. foreign policy is concerned, "You're either with us, or you're against us."

Biden was quoted early in the year wanting to stop it.

Incompetent Blinken (Afghanistan) - part of Obama's C Team - seemed low key gleeful about the development.

We either did it, or allowed it to happen.

This hurts Russia.

Sure, special ops. It wasn't Latvia.

movielover said:

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Biden was quoted early in the year wanting to stop it.

Incompetent Blinken (Afghanistan) - part of Obama's C Team - seemed low key gleeful about the development.

We either did it, or allowed it to happen.

This hurts Russia.

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In case you dont realize this, your first two statements dont support your conclusion. There is a world of other potential perpetrators, and there is no actual evidence of who did this, only speculation , but speculation is not fact.