GoOskie said:

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bearister said:

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investigative journalism😤 pic.twitter.com/IE7CnoXbz9

— Annie Wu (all socials: @annie_wu_22) (@Annie_Wu_22) August 25, 2023

dimitrig said:

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I have not followed any of this stuff at all.

I just finally decided to read the transcript of Trump's call with Ryan Germany and Brad Raffensberger.

Trump was obviously fed a lot of bad data in order to feed his own ego. He sounds like a really desperate man in denial that he could have possibly lost the election. However, I didn't find anything incriminating about all of the crazy theories he tossed out, some of which were refuted during the call, and none of which have proven to be accurate.

Supposedly the call isn't really at the center of the case anyway. It's all the conspiracy and machinations surrounding trying to manipulate data and/or the people with access to the data. Do I have that correct?

It's not just clear to me at all that Trump was some criminal mastermind. He sounds like a sore loser on a rant and his representatives (when he actually let them speak) seemed reasonable in asking to see the raw data and the reports generated from it. In fact, there was some agreement to do so at a later date.

Can someone describe to me in a succinct way what Trump is accused of and more importantly what evidence exists to prove those accusations? To me that phone call is a throw away. As a juror it wouldn't convince me of anything other than that Trump is delusional and relies too much on bad information to form his opinions.

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Big C said:

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dimitrig said:

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I have not followed any of this stuff at all.

I just finally decided to read the transcript of Trump's call with Ryan Germany and Brad Raffensberger.

Trump was obviously fed a lot of bad data in order to feed his own ego. He sounds like a really desperate man in denial that he could have possibly lost the election. However, I didn't find anything incriminating about all of the crazy theories he tossed out, some of which were refuted during the call, and none of which have proven to be accurate.

Supposedly the call isn't really at the center of the case anyway. It's all the conspiracy and machinations surrounding trying to manipulate data and/or the people with access to the data. Do I have that correct?

It's not just clear to me at all that Trump was some criminal mastermind. He sounds like a sore loser on a rant and his representatives (when he actually let them speak) seemed reasonable in asking to see the raw data and the reports generated from it. In fact, there was some agreement to do so at a later date.

Can someone describe to me in a succinct way what Trump is accused of and more importantly what evidence exists to prove those accusations? To me that phone call is a throw away. As a juror it wouldn't convince me of anything other than that Trump is delusional and relies too much on bad information to form his opinions.

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So, in other words, you've gone over to the Dark Side?

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dajo9 said:

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dimitrig said:

---

I have not followed any of this stuff at all.

I just finally decided to read the transcript of Trump's call with Ryan Germany and Brad Raffensberger.

Trump was obviously fed a lot of bad data in order to feed his own ego. He sounds like a really desperate man in denial that he could have possibly lost the election. However, I didn't find anything incriminating about all of the crazy theories he tossed out, some of which were refuted during the call, and none of which have proven to be accurate.

Supposedly the call isn't really at the center of the case anyway. It's all the conspiracy and machinations surrounding trying to manipulate data and/or the people with access to the data. Do I have that correct?

It's not just clear to me at all that Trump was some criminal mastermind. He sounds like a sore loser on a rant and his representatives (when he actually let them speak) seemed reasonable in asking to see the raw data and the reports generated from it. In fact, there was some agreement to do so at a later date.

Can someone describe to me in a succinct way what Trump is accused of and more importantly what evidence exists to prove those accusations? To me that phone call is a throw away. As a juror it wouldn't convince me of anything other than that Trump is delusional and relies too much on bad information to form his opinions.

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You are correct the one phone call is just one piece of evidence and is not the heart of the matter. There are really 4 paths to this, speaking as a layperson and not an attorney. I'll start with the main one, in my opinion, but for all of these you have to understand that Trump and team knew from their own attorneys and experts and court cases that they had lost the election and that election fraud was not meaningful. The prosecution will be able to provide that evidence in order to advance the allegations below.

1 - Trump and his lawyers conspired to have a false slate of electors in Georgia (and Arizona, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin). These electors cast formal, illegal votes for Trump on behalf of Georgia and sent them to Congress. The plan, as drawn up by Trump and his lawyers, was for Mike Pence to count the illegal, false slate of electors instead of the legal slate of electors as determined by Georgia law, on January 6th. That is conspiracy to defraud the United States. People don't realize how close we were to losing our republic on January 6th. If Mike Pence had gone along with the plan I don't know what would have stopped it from succeeding (and the reason why Trump supporters who attacked the Capitol were shouting "hang Mike Pence"). That is sedition and Trump and his co-conspirators should be barred from holding public office as per the 14th amendment of the Constitution - but I digress.

2 - Numerous instances of false statements and solicitation to violate oaths. The phone call to Raffensberger likely falls into these allegations, as well as numerous other similar instances.

3 - Illegally accessing voting equipment in Coffee County.

4 - Targeting specific election workers with a campaign of harassment and intimidation in an attempt to influence (falsely) their testimony.

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dimitrig said:

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dajo9 said:

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dimitrig said:

---

I have not followed any of this stuff at all.

I just finally decided to read the transcript of Trump's call with Ryan Germany and Brad Raffensberger.

Trump was obviously fed a lot of bad data in order to feed his own ego. He sounds like a really desperate man in denial that he could have possibly lost the election. However, I didn't find anything incriminating about all of the crazy theories he tossed out, some of which were refuted during the call, and none of which have proven to be accurate.

Supposedly the call isn't really at the center of the case anyway. It's all the conspiracy and machinations surrounding trying to manipulate data and/or the people with access to the data. Do I have that correct?

It's not just clear to me at all that Trump was some criminal mastermind. He sounds like a sore loser on a rant and his representatives (when he actually let them speak) seemed reasonable in asking to see the raw data and the reports generated from it. In fact, there was some agreement to do so at a later date.

Can someone describe to me in a succinct way what Trump is accused of and more importantly what evidence exists to prove those accusations? To me that phone call is a throw away. As a juror it wouldn't convince me of anything other than that Trump is delusional and relies too much on bad information to form his opinions.

---

You are correct the one phone call is just one piece of evidence and is not the heart of the matter. There are really 4 paths to this, speaking as a layperson and not an attorney. I'll start with the main one, in my opinion, but for all of these you have to understand that Trump and team knew from their own attorneys and experts and court cases that they had lost the election and that election fraud was not meaningful. The prosecution will be able to provide that evidence in order to advance the allegations below.

1 - Trump and his lawyers conspired to have a false slate of electors in Georgia (and Arizona, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin). These electors cast formal, illegal votes for Trump on behalf of Georgia and sent them to Congress. The plan, as drawn up by Trump and his lawyers, was for Mike Pence to count the illegal, false slate of electors instead of the legal slate of electors as determined by Georgia law, on January 6th. That is conspiracy to defraud the United States. People don't realize how close we were to losing our republic on January 6th. If Mike Pence had gone along with the plan I don't know what would have stopped it from succeeding (and the reason why Trump supporters who attacked the Capitol were shouting "hang Mike Pence"). That is sedition and Trump and his co-conspirators should be barred from holding public office as per the 14th amendment of the Constitution - but I digress.

2 - Numerous instances of false statements and solicitation to violate oaths. The phone call to Raffensberger likely falls into these allegations, as well as numerous other similar instances.

3 - Illegally accessing voting equipment in Coffee County.

4 - Targeting specific election workers with a campaign of harassment and intimidation in an attempt to influence (falsely) their testimony.

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The charges related to this are defrauding the US government (a misdemeanor) and obstruction of an official proceeding (punishable by as little as a fine).

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dajo9 said:

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dimitrig said:

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dajo9 said:

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dimitrig said:

---

I have not followed any of this stuff at all.

I just finally decided to read the transcript of Trump's call with Ryan Germany and Brad Raffensberger.

Trump was obviously fed a lot of bad data in order to feed his own ego. He sounds like a really desperate man in denial that he could have possibly lost the election. However, I didn't find anything incriminating about all of the crazy theories he tossed out, some of which were refuted during the call, and none of which have proven to be accurate.

Supposedly the call isn't really at the center of the case anyway. It's all the conspiracy and machinations surrounding trying to manipulate data and/or the people with access to the data. Do I have that correct?

It's not just clear to me at all that Trump was some criminal mastermind. He sounds like a sore loser on a rant and his representatives (when he actually let them speak) seemed reasonable in asking to see the raw data and the reports generated from it. In fact, there was some agreement to do so at a later date.

Can someone describe to me in a succinct way what Trump is accused of and more importantly what evidence exists to prove those accusations? To me that phone call is a throw away. As a juror it wouldn't convince me of anything other than that Trump is delusional and relies too much on bad information to form his opinions.

---

You are correct the one phone call is just one piece of evidence and is not the heart of the matter. There are really 4 paths to this, speaking as a layperson and not an attorney. I'll start with the main one, in my opinion, but for all of these you have to understand that Trump and team knew from their own attorneys and experts and court cases that they had lost the election and that election fraud was not meaningful. The prosecution will be able to provide that evidence in order to advance the allegations below.

1 - Trump and his lawyers conspired to have a false slate of electors in Georgia (and Arizona, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin). These electors cast formal, illegal votes for Trump on behalf of Georgia and sent them to Congress. The plan, as drawn up by Trump and his lawyers, was for Mike Pence to count the illegal, false slate of electors instead of the legal slate of electors as determined by Georgia law, on January 6th. That is conspiracy to defraud the United States. People don't realize how close we were to losing our republic on January 6th. If Mike Pence had gone along with the plan I don't know what would have stopped it from succeeding (and the reason why Trump supporters who attacked the Capitol were shouting "hang Mike Pence"). That is sedition and Trump and his co-conspirators should be barred from holding public office as per the 14th amendment of the Constitution - but I digress.

2 - Numerous instances of false statements and solicitation to violate oaths. The phone call to Raffensberger likely falls into these allegations, as well as numerous other similar instances.

3 - Illegally accessing voting equipment in Coffee County.

4 - Targeting specific election workers with a campaign of harassment and intimidation in an attempt to influence (falsely) their testimony.

---

The charges related to this are defrauding the US government (a misdemeanor) and obstruction of an official proceeding (punishable by as little as a fine).

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Those are not the charges against Trump in Georgia. But I'm glad you are now suddenly an expert.

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dimitrig said:

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dajo9 said:

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dimitrig said:

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dajo9 said:

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dimitrig said:

---

I have not followed any of this stuff at all.

I just finally decided to read the transcript of Trump's call with Ryan Germany and Brad Raffensberger.

Trump was obviously fed a lot of bad data in order to feed his own ego. He sounds like a really desperate man in denial that he could have possibly lost the election. However, I didn't find anything incriminating about all of the crazy theories he tossed out, some of which were refuted during the call, and none of which have proven to be accurate.

Supposedly the call isn't really at the center of the case anyway. It's all the conspiracy and machinations surrounding trying to manipulate data and/or the people with access to the data. Do I have that correct?

It's not just clear to me at all that Trump was some criminal mastermind. He sounds like a sore loser on a rant and his representatives (when he actually let them speak) seemed reasonable in asking to see the raw data and the reports generated from it. In fact, there was some agreement to do so at a later date.

Can someone describe to me in a succinct way what Trump is accused of and more importantly what evidence exists to prove those accusations? To me that phone call is a throw away. As a juror it wouldn't convince me of anything other than that Trump is delusional and relies too much on bad information to form his opinions.

---

You are correct the one phone call is just one piece of evidence and is not the heart of the matter. There are really 4 paths to this, speaking as a layperson and not an attorney. I'll start with the main one, in my opinion, but for all of these you have to understand that Trump and team knew from their own attorneys and experts and court cases that they had lost the election and that election fraud was not meaningful. The prosecution will be able to provide that evidence in order to advance the allegations below.

1 - Trump and his lawyers conspired to have a false slate of electors in Georgia (and Arizona, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin). These electors cast formal, illegal votes for Trump on behalf of Georgia and sent them to Congress. The plan, as drawn up by Trump and his lawyers, was for Mike Pence to count the illegal, false slate of electors instead of the legal slate of electors as determined by Georgia law, on January 6th. That is conspiracy to defraud the United States. People don't realize how close we were to losing our republic on January 6th. If Mike Pence had gone along with the plan I don't know what would have stopped it from succeeding (and the reason why Trump supporters who attacked the Capitol were shouting "hang Mike Pence"). That is sedition and Trump and his co-conspirators should be barred from holding public office as per the 14th amendment of the Constitution - but I digress.

2 - Numerous instances of false statements and solicitation to violate oaths. The phone call to Raffensberger likely falls into these allegations, as well as numerous other similar instances.

3 - Illegally accessing voting equipment in Coffee County.

4 - Targeting specific election workers with a campaign of harassment and intimidation in an attempt to influence (falsely) their testimony.

---

The charges related to this are defrauding the US government (a misdemeanor) and obstruction of an official proceeding (punishable by as little as a fine).

---

Those are not the charges against Trump in Georgia. But I'm glad you are now suddenly an expert.

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I have no idea what the charges are in Georgia.

I am just addressing the "false slate of electors" accusation and those are the violations of the law related to that.

There were three more points listed so which ones are the ones you think are going to have Trump convicted of a felony?

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bearister said:

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Trump Posts Attack On Judge Chutkan After 3 AM Rage Bender


https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-posts-attack-on-judge-chutkan-after-3-am-rage-bender-at-corrupt-system-of-injustice/

*What is he on? His claim he doesn't drink or use drugs is as believable as he is 6'3 215 lbs.and that he doesn't cheat on his wife.

Edit: Michael Cohen says tRump actually is sober, he is just goofy as f@uck.

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bearister said:

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Trump's co-defendants are already starting to turn against him - POLITICO

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bearister said:

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His claim he doesn't drink or use drugs is as believable as he is 6'3 215 lbs.

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