The Non-Yogi Israel-Palestine war thread

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Grigsby
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 12:16p, 12/1/23
tequila4kapp said:
Hamas broke the cease fire the day before with explosive attacks that injured IDF soldiers in Gaza. The end game is simple - Hamas lives for killing Jews. They want fighting, death and war. Peace is their kryptonite. This will never end until Hamas is eliminated or Israel ceases to exist. Biden's seeming humanitarian move is merely enabling Hamas.

Israel needs to do something dramatic and big like removing all Palestinian civilians from Gaza into Israel, caring for them, restarting the war in Gaza to kill every last member of Hamas, rebuilding Gaza, and returning Palestinians to Gaza. They probably need to maintain some sort of political control over Gaza to ensure no political party takes over which continues any anti-Semitic policies (school policies, paying terrorists, having a policy to eliminate Israel).
Weird how you don't mention who actually broken the ceasefire, which was Israel yet again. It's appauling that I, a Litvak Jew, have to explain to people why Israel is the bad guy. Hell Almsot everyone in Congress are antisemites. Israel does not represent me and disavow their instance that I as a Jew cannot speak out on their atrocities.

Strange that no one seems to mind that many pro-apartheid freely immigrated to Israel along with sex offenders from the United States. Also weird that no one seems to give a **** that Israel has been supporting genocides in Rwanda, DRC, Sudan, Yemen, Armenia, Guatemala et al.

Israel, England, US, France caused this problem and rfuse to take accountability.

Then again why would I expect more from the US when the US is wholly built upon genocide and ethnic cleansing as is England, France.

You should be embarrassed.
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oski003
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In reply to Grigsby • 12:21p, 12/1/23
Grigsby said:
tequila4kapp said:
Hamas broke the cease fire the day before with explosive attacks that injured IDF soldiers in Gaza. The end game is simple - Hamas lives for killing Jews. They want fighting, death and war. Peace is their kryptonite. This will never end until Hamas is eliminated or Israel ceases to exist. Biden's seeming humanitarian move is merely enabling Hamas.

Israel needs to do something dramatic and big like removing all Palestinian civilians from Gaza into Israel, caring for them, restarting the war in Gaza to kill every last member of Hamas, rebuilding Gaza, and returning Palestinians to Gaza. They probably need to maintain some sort of political control over Gaza to ensure no political party takes over which continues any anti-Semitic policies (school policies, paying terrorists, having a policy to eliminate Israel).
Weird how you don't mention who actually broken the ceasefire, which was Israel yet again. It's appauling that I, a Litvak Jew, have to explain to people why Israel is the bad guy. Hell Almsot everyone in Congress are antisemites. Israel does not represent me and disavow their instance that I as a Jew cannot speak out on their atrocities.

Strange that no one seems to mind that many pro-apartheid freely immigrated to Israel along with sex offenders from the United States. Also weird that no one seems to give a **** that Israel has been supporting genocides in Rwanda, DRC, Sudan, Yemen, Armenia, Guatemala et al.

Israel, England, US, France caused this problem and rfuse to take accountability.

Then again why would I expect more from the US when the US is wholly built upon genocide and ethnic cleansing as is England, France.

You should be embarrassed.


"Weird how you don't mention who actually broken the ceasefire, which was Israel yet again...

when they ... "

Can you please elaborate on how Israel broke the ceasefire?
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to Grigsby • 12:58p, 12/1/23
Grigsby said:
tequila4kapp said:
This is why you don't agree to "temporary" cease fires.

Re "giving Hamas what they want"...ISIS says hello from their caliphate.
What nonsense are you babling about? You do realize Hamas hates ISIS?
What I am saying is that you can defeat a terrorist organization, especially those which occupy a physical location ... like Hamas in Gaza and ISIS with their caliphate in Syria. Hence, Biden's comment about the fighting only giving Hamas what they is total crap.
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Zippergate
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12:59p, 12/1/23
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bear2034
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In reply to Zippergate • 1:22p, 12/1/23
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Cal88
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In reply to bear2034 • 1:34p, 12/1/23
bear2034 said:


"This isn't a plastic doll. This baby is made out of rubber."

False.



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bear2034
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In reply to Cal88 • 1:39p, 12/1/23
Rigor mortis?
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Unit2Sucks
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8:25a, 12/3/23
Not sure if this has been posted, but UNRWA (largely US funded) has been caught supporting terrorism once again. Until we can guarantee that Hamas isn't using it for terrorism, we shouldn't send one more dollar to them.

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/global/un/discovery-of-rockets-hidden-in-unrwa-relief-supplies-raises-questions-again/2023/12/02/

For those unaware, this is far from the first time.

see here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/08/01/war-in-gaza-the-controversial-un-agency-that-found-rockets-in-its-schools/

And here:
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-207812/
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Cal88
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2:43p, 12/3/23
One consequence of the war in Gaza is that AIPAC will end up backing Trump. Biden's base is divided on that issue, especially among younger and minority voters. The Republicans base, not so much. This might be enough to seal the win for Trump.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:07p, 12/3/23
It will be another rigged election. Some suggest President Trump has to win big enough to make rigging the election impossible, but look what they did in 2020... shut down the computer systems in six swing districts in 6 swing states.
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Biden Sucks 4
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4:37p, 12/3/23
Whoops!

https://i.ibb.co/T2JYz4y/Screenshot-2023-12-03-162136.png
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bear2034
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4:42p, 12/3/23


No rapes? No beheaded babies? Just standard run of the mill executions? What's the truth?
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dimitrig
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In reply to bear2034 • 5:17p, 12/3/23
bear2034 said:


No rapes? No beheaded babies? Just standard run of the mill executions? What's the truth?

The truth won't be known for a quite some time - years maybe.

I discount any unsubstantiated reports like this.

It should be pretty easy to verify if they discovered the body of a woman decapitated with a shovel. I am not saying it didn't happen, but people say all kinds of things for various reasons.




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movielover
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In reply to dimitrig • 5:33p, 12/3/23
PubMed: "Among Palestinian Arabs the rate of consanguinity is very high and some 44.3% of the marriages are between relatives (22.6% of them between first cousins)."

Given their intellectual might, they were probably sitting shiva.Shiva.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9021024/#:~:text=Among%20Palestinian%20Arabs%20the%20rate,of%20them%20between%20first%20cousins).
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CaliforniaEternal
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 7:01p, 12/3/23
The UN is nothing more than a front to funnel billions of dollars to Hamas, support their Islamist agenda, and provide a forum for all of the world's most oppressive countries to demonize Israel.
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bearister
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7:25p, 12/3/23
Tunnel Warfare in Gaza

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_tunnel_warfare_in_the_Gaza_Strip
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Cal88
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In reply to CaliforniaEternal • 7:56p, 12/3/23
CaliforniaEternal said:
The UN is nothing more than a front to funnel billions of dollars to Hamas, support their Islamist agenda, and provide a forum for all of the world's most oppressive countries to demonize Israel.

Israel has been doing its part in its demonization process by bombing Gaza to smithereens and killing 15,000 civilians in the process. It is not only an incredibly cruel crime against humanity, but is also strategically counterproductive for them, as recently stated by Lloyd Austin:



We could start seeing more daylight developing between the Biden and Netanyahu administration, whose goal appears to inflict severe punishment on the population of Gaza, creating such hardships as to make that enclave unlivable.

The motivation here seems to be sheer revenge and bloodlust on one hand, and perhaps the desire to push as many Palestinians to leave as possible by destroying all infrastructure and denying the enclave essential services and supplies: food, running water, sewage system, fuel, medical supplies, hospitals, schools, housing.

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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 8:39p, 12/3/23
Colonel McGregor has suggested that the harder Israel bombs, the more likely this changes into a regional war. Iran, Turkey, Lebanon, and Russia possibly jumping in, among others.
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CaliforniaEternal
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In reply to Cal88 • 10:57p, 12/3/23
So now you're counting Hamas terrorists among the civilians killed? Sheesh, why doesn't Hamas surrender unconditionally and end this war?
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bear2034
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1:40a, 12/4/23
Why surrender? if you die, you end up with 72 virgins, if you live you get a chance to kill jews. It seems like a pretty good deal to me.
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bear2034
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In reply to Cal88 • 1:51a, 12/4/23
I hope Defense Secretary Austin also mentioned that protecting civilians in Gaza is a moral responsibility and strategic imperative for Hamas.
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Cal88
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In reply to bear2034 • 7:21a, 12/4/23
bear2034 said:
I hope Defense Secretary Austin also mentioned that protecting civilians in Gaza is a moral responsibility and strategic imperative for Hamas.

And how do you reckon they could they do that, by purchasing anti-air missiles?

Interesting report from an Economist correspondant:
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oski003
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:43a, 12/4/23
Cal88 said:
bear2034 said:
I hope Defense Secretary Austin also mentioned that protecting civilians in Gaza is a moral responsibility and strategic imperative for Hamas.

And how do you reckon they could they do that, by purchasing anti-air missiles?

Interesting report from an Economist correspondant:


They could better protect the Palestinian people by not building tunnels and meeting rooms around schools and hospitals, by not preventing civilians to move to safer areas, and by not breaking the cease fire by sanctioning their fighters' murder of Israeli civilians a few days ago. Basically, they can do the opposite of what they are doing now and Palestinian civilians would be 1000x better off.
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Cal88
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In reply to oski003 • 8:06a, 12/4/23
oski003 said:
Cal88 said:
bear2034 said:
I hope Defense Secretary Austin also mentioned that protecting civilians in Gaza is a moral responsibility and strategic imperative for Hamas.

And how do you reckon they could they do that, by purchasing anti-air missiles?

Interesting report from an Economist correspondant:


They could better protect the Palestinian people by not building tunnels and meeting rooms around schools and hospitals, by not preventing civilians to move to safer areas, and by not breaking the cease fire by sanctioning their fighters' murder of Israeli civilians a few days ago. Basically, they can do the opposite of what they are doing now and Palestinian civilians would be 1000x better off.

The pattern of Israeli bombing has been clearly indiscriminate, they have deliberately bombed nearly every hospital in Gaza. They have bombed nearly half of all standing buildings in that open air prison, including churches with zero military value. Their goal is clearly to inflict damage on the population, and it seems that many here are perfectly fine with that type of mass war crime.

Nearly 1 million people have already moved to the southern part, they are not being prevented from moving there.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to CaliforniaEternal • 8:22a, 12/4/23
CaliforniaEternal said:
The UN is nothing more than a front to funnel billions of dollars to Hamas, support their Islamist agenda, and provide a forum for all of the world's most oppressive countries to demonize Israel.
The UNRWA certainly is. I can't speak for every UN org, but most if not all other ones have global mandates. UNRWA is quite different - it only operates in Palestine and the org is almost entirely run by Palestinian refugees. Given Hamas' malign influence, as you can imagine this really means that UNRWA is essentially a captive organization of Hamas whose mission conflicts with how the organization actually is forced to operate on the ground.

Rather than running schools for the benefit of Gazan children, they teach anti-semitism and support Hamas through operational support including weapons storage, tunnels, etc. Some Israeli hostages claimed to have been taken to the homes of UNRWA teachers which were also weapons stashes.

The entire organization is rotten and failing Gazans. This is why relief is so problematic in Gaza and why regardless of what Egypt and Israel "allow", Gazans will never get a fair shake so long as they are ruled by Hamas. None of this is new - it's been problematic for decades.

EU has withdrawn funding of UNRWA and it's long past time for the US to do so as well. UNRWA needs to be replaced with a mission-focused aid agency that isn't captive to Hamas and can actually fulfill its role of helping refugees.

I understand that there will continue to be furious propaganda which portrays Hamas as something other than what it really is and seeks to minimize their role in this conflict. When you have Russia plus Iran plus other malign influences involved, you will have copious amounts of misinformation. And of course, Israel has credibility issues as well - the entire situation is a mess and I don't fault people for having lots of distrust for all of the players involved. But make no mistake, there are people who are invested for one reason or another in providing misinformation for one reason or another and they are too often the loudest voices in the room. Fortunately, if you have any idea what's going on they are easy to spot and ignore.
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oski003
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In reply to Cal88 • 8:33a, 12/4/23
Cal88 said:
oski003 said:
Cal88 said:
bear2034 said:
I hope Defense Secretary Austin also mentioned that protecting civilians in Gaza is a moral responsibility and strategic imperative for Hamas.

And how do you reckon they could they do that, by purchasing anti-air missiles?

Interesting report from an Economist correspondant:


They could better protect the Palestinian people by not building tunnels and meeting rooms around schools and hospitals, by not preventing civilians to move to safer areas, and by not breaking the cease fire by sanctioning their fighters' murder of Israeli civilians a few days ago. Basically, they can do the opposite of what they are doing now and Palestinian civilians would be 1000x better off.

The pattern of Israeli bombing has been clearly indiscriminate, they have deliberately bombed nearly every hospital in Gaza. They have bombed nearly half of all standing buildings in that open air prison, including churches with zero military value. Their goal is clearly to inflict damage on the population, and it seems that many here are perfectly fine with that type of mass war crime.

Nearly 1 million people have already moved to the southern part, they are not being prevented from moving there.


Their bombing is not clearly indiscriminate. They could certainly have a better regard for Palestinians lives when trying to root out the Evil that is Hamas, even if it costs more Israeli lives, which is what they are unwilling to sacrifice after Hamas soldiers attacked and raped, kidnapped, and killed innocent Israeli citizens and still holds many hostage.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 8:39a, 12/4/23
I'm not defending war crimes, but hasn't Hamas committed war crimes for decades with indiscriminate rockets launched into Israel.

Pipes for water and sewage could be left in the ground, and they could build a society. They've contributed to their 'open air prison'.
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 8:42a, 12/4/23
Unit2Sucks said:
Not sure if this has been posted, but UNRWA (largely US funded) has been caught supporting terrorism once again. Until we can guarantee that Hamas isn't using it for terrorism, we shouldn't send one more dollar to them.

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/global/un/discovery-of-rockets-hidden-in-unrwa-relief-supplies-raises-questions-again/2023/12/02/

For those unaware, this is far from the first time.

see here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/08/01/war-in-gaza-the-controversial-un-agency-that-found-rockets-in-its-schools/

And here:
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-207812/
And now a 1st person account from a survivor who reports being held in the attic of a UNRWA teacher for 50 days. UNRWA aren't just supporting terrorists, they are the terrorists.
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Zippergate
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:38a, 12/4/23
Cal88, what would you have Israel do? I think Israel is making a mistake in their attempt to root out Hamas and achieve retribution. While I think their response is fully justified, this is a public relations war and they are losing that badly; they are playing into the hands of the rabid anti-Israel faction of the Muslim world increasing their relative power and creating the next generation of terrorists. There are no good options, only less bad ones. You cannot win a war when the other side has no regard for human life and wants to bring on the end of the world.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 9:54a, 12/4/23
tequila4kapp said:
Unit2Sucks said:
Not sure if this has been posted, but UNRWA (largely US funded) has been caught supporting terrorism once again. Until we can guarantee that Hamas isn't using it for terrorism, we shouldn't send one more dollar to them.

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/global/un/discovery-of-rockets-hidden-in-unrwa-relief-supplies-raises-questions-again/2023/12/02/

For those unaware, this is far from the first time.

see here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/08/01/war-in-gaza-the-controversial-un-agency-that-found-rockets-in-its-schools/

And here:
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-207812/
And now a 1st person account from a survivor who reports being held in the attic of a UNRWA teacher for 50 days. UNRWA aren't just supporting terrorists, they are the terrorists.
Yes, the first article I linked discussed the hostage you mentioned. UNRWA is effectively an arm of Hamas which is funded by the US. That needs to stop immediately and some humane alternative needs to be created that is free from Hamas interference and actually has a mandate to help civilians in Palestine. Unfortunately, until Hamas is eradicated, it will be impossible for people in Gaza to enjoy any hope for improvement.

All of the focus has been on Israeli wrongdoing but even if all of the Israeli transgressions were to cease today, life for Gazans would be dismal under the thumb of Hamas and would continue to deteriorate. No amount of foreign aid will fix the problem when Hamas is controlling Gaza.
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movielover
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10:40a, 12/4/23
Supplant Hamas w PLO?
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bearister
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In reply to Cal88 • 11:38a, 12/4/23
Hmmm….
No way. Right?

Netanyahu corruption trial resumes in spite of Israel's ongoing war in Gaza


https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231204-netanyahu-corruption-trial-resumes-in-spite-of-israel-s-ongoing-war-in-gaza
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cbbass1
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In reply to Cal88 • 12:38p, 12/4/23
Cal88 said:
One consequence of the war in Gaza is that AIPAC will end up backing Trump. Biden's base is divided on that issue, especially among younger and minority voters. The Republicans base, not so much. This might be enough to seal the win for Trump.
Agreed. It's clear that AIPAC gets whatever they want in DC, on both sides of the aisle.

However, Democratic voters (Biden's base) aren't really "divided" on this. 80% of Democratic voters support a cease-fire, and for the indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Gaza to stop.

Nearly ALL 18-34 U.S. voters are strongly against genocide & ethnic cleansing, and against human rights abuses, no matter who does them. Biden has lost this age group. Period. There's no turning back. Trump might attempt to pick them up somehow, but Trump is Pay-4-Play, and AIPAC is paying.

Biden, by declaring his "unwavering" support for Netanyahu, Likud, and the most extreme Zionists in Israeli politics, has also turned U.S. Arab & Muslim voters against him. He's lost any chance of winning Michigan, and most likely Minnesota.

I think you'll see 18-34 voters sit this one out, or vote for Dr. Cornel West or Jill Stein in the general.

Note that it was the 18-34 voters that won the election for Biden in 2020.

The DNC's insistence on backing Biden strengthens the assertion that the Democrats are expecting Biden to lose. They would rather lose with Biden than WIN with the most popular candidate to emerge from an un-rigged primary process.

The "Democratic" Party represents the interests of Capital.

Capital hates democracy.

So Capital is fine with either Trump or Biden. Except that Biden gives lip service to organized Labor & popular Progressive policies, and makes token gestures toward transitioning from fossil fuels & increasing anti-trust enforcement -- so he's more of a "threat" to Capital than Trump, who will do anything for $$$.

Also: IF Biden remains the "Democratic" Party candidate -- and he loses -- the leadership of the Party & DNC remains intact. They'll do what they always do after a loss:
  • Blame Progressives
  • Blame young voters
  • Blame black, Hispanic, & Arab voters
  • Blame anti-war activists
  • Blame unions
  • Blame Russia (& "Putin apologists")
  • Blame anyone & everyone who didn't support Biden 100%, & who didn't support genocide & ethnic cleansing in Gaza
  • Use every abhorrent utterance and action from Trump as a fundraising tool to cement themselves in power, without doing anything to change policy.
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Biden Sucks 5
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In reply to CaliforniaEternal • 12:42p, 12/4/23
CaliforniaEternal said:
The UN is nothing more than a front to funnel billions of dollars to Hamas, support their Islamist agenda, and provide a forum for all of the world's most oppressive countries to demonize Israel.


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Biden Sucks 5
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In reply to sycasey • 12:43p, 12/4/23
sycasey said:
bearister said:
Axios today inferred Arab Americans may put tRump in the White House.

Just hard to see how they are better off with Trump. He's not going to be any kinder to Palestine than Biden.

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