The Non-Yogi Israel-Palestine war thread

208,485 Views | 2617 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by tequila4kapp
CaliforniaEternal
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And the Arabs never offered the Jews a state. The Arab states tried their best to stop Israel from being established. And guess what, if Jordan still controlled the West Bank today and Egypt controlled Gaza, they certainly wouldn't be giving up those territories to create a Palestine.

Cal88
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tequila4kapp
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Genocide Joe said:



This is so stupidly dishonest. Was Germany no longer a State after WW1 because restrictions on its military capabilities were forced on it? Is Japan not a State now because it has Constitutional restriction on its ability to have an army? The idea that 1936, 1948, 1967, 2000 and 2008 didn't happen because Israel is now talking about a future Palestine with military restrictions is the definition of absurd.

Here is who Israel is dealing with, from Hamas' Covenant (Constitution):
Goals of the HAMAS:
"The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine." (Article 6)

On the destruction of Israel:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (Preamble)

The exclusive Moslem nature of the area:
"The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it." (Article 11)
"Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be." (Article 13)

The call to jihad:
"The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised." (Article 15)
"Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about." (Article 33)

Rejection of a negotiated peace settlement:
"[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility." (Article 13)
=====

I can hear the anti-Israel crowd now: But wait, that's just Hamas. Israel should work with the moderate Palestinian Authority. Here's a word or two on Israel's great moderate partner:

One of the less savory aspects of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's biography is that he has a PhD in Holocaust denial literally. His 1982 dissertation, published as "The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism," famously argues that the Zionists collaborated with the Nazis in order to spur more Jewish immigration to Palestine. "The Zionist movement," it explains, "led a broad campaign of incitement against the Jews living under Nazi rule, in order to arouse the government's hatred of them, to fuel vengeance against them, and to expand the mass extermination." The Zionists, the work asserts, were the Third Reich's "basic partner in crime." It also claims that the figure of six million dead has been exaggerated for political gain, and suggests one million as a more reasonable estimate. Abbas has never unreservedly repudiated the document, and has in fact regularly reaffirmed its core argument, saying in 2013 that he had "70 more books that I still haven't published" proving the Zionist-Nazi partnership.

===
But Israel is insane for having the nerve to suggest a post war Palestine with military restrictions. Yeah, right.
tequila4kapp
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Cal88 said:


Yes, may Hamas members be judged by everyone for their disgusting responsibility for murdering their own Palestinian brothers and sisters.
tequila4kapp
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CaliforniaEternal said:

And the Arabs never offered the Jews a state. The Arab states tried their best to stop Israel from being established. And guess what, if Jordan still controlled the West Bank today and Egypt controlled Gaza, they certainly wouldn't be giving up those territories to create a Palestine.


Yep. For 19 years - from 1948 to 1967 - the West Bank and Gaza belonged to Jordan and Egypt. They offered the Palestinians 5 fewer opportunities to have sovereignty than Israel / Great Britain / UN. That's okay, it was probably the Jews' fault.
calbear93
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tequila4kapp said:

Cal88 said:


Yes, may Hamas members be judged by everyone for their disgusting responsibility for murdering their own Palestinian brothers and sisters.


Someone's sins against the innocent do not justify someone else's sins against other innocents. As much as I support Israel and are in favor of our support for them, it is not making me blind to the atrocities committed by the Israeli military against the innocents at a disproportionate number between Hamas who have rightfully been targeted and the already suffering families, including kids, who have been indiscriminately killed.

We will all be held accountable for our own actions. Too many innocents killed by the zealots from both sides., and not enough from either side standing up against the misdeeds from their own side.
tequila4kapp
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Until someone states a viable military alternative for Israel I'm comfortable absolving them for collateral deaths.

  • Move Palestinians out of the area? Hamas restricts their movements in order to have human shields.
  • Don't bomb civilian / humanitarian sites? Hamas uses them for military purposes.
  • Allow Hamas to exist? An absurdity, given that Hamas' stated objective is to kill all Jews and eliminate the state of Israel.
  • Israel should be 'more precise.' Again, Hamas uses human shields. Is Israel required to only use snipers? Absurd.

I am personally uncomfortable with decisions they are taking to bomb entire buildings to kill terrorists when they know that civilians are there. But they give warnings. If they cannot bomb or shell then this de-evolves to soldiers shootings single shots at terrorists hiding behind Palestinians. More Israeli soldiers die. The war takes way way longer. Israeli soldiers are likely captured and taken hostage, further prolonging the war. Is a nation really required to fight a war in that manner because their opponent uses human shields?

Is there some other alternative?
calbear93
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tequila4kapp said:

Until someone states a viable military alternative for Israel I'm comfortable absolving them for collateral deaths.

  • Move Palestinians out of the area? Hamas restricts their movements in order to have human shields.
  • Don't bomb civilian / humanitarian sites? Hamas uses them for military purposes.
  • Allow Hamas to exist? An absurdity, given that Hamas' stated objective is to kill all Jews and eliminate the state of Israel.
  • Israel should be 'more precise.' Again, Hamas uses human shields. Is Israel required to only use snipers? Absurd.

I am personally uncomfortable with decisions they are taking to bomb entire buildings to kill terrorists when they know that civilians are there. But they give warnings. If they cannot bomb or shell then this de-evolves to soldiers shootings single shots at terrorists hiding behind Palestinians. More Israeli soldiers die. The war takes way way longer. Israeli soldiers are likely captured and taken hostage, further prolonging the way. Is a nation really required to fight a war in that manner because their opponent uses human shields?

Is there some other alternative?


I don't know what the options are but I find it hard to believe that dropping unguided bomb at hospital, Christian churches, shelters killing hundreds of innocents at the chance of maybe harming a few Hamas leaders is justified. We could accomplish quite a bit if we did not care about collateral damage. But we do care, so we deal with allowing some evil to exist. At what point do we think whatever is otherwise worthwhile is not worthwhile when we imagine all the suffering we would create? The only way you can justify the number of death to accomplish elimination of Hamas is to devalue the lives of those who are not guilty but are just in the way. There has to be a less of a complete win that reduces harm to civilians. I don't know what, but we cannot truly believe massive bombs where civilians are hiding is the best we can do.
sycasey
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tequila4kapp said:

Genocide Joe said:



This is so stupidly dishonest that it's shameful it's advanced by people smart enough to have Cal degrees. Was Germany no longer a State after WW1 because restrictions on its military capabilities were forced on it? Is Japan not a State now because it has Constitutional restriction on its ability to have an army? The idea that 1936, 1948, 1967, 2000 and 2008 didn't happen because Israel is now talking about a future Palestine with military restrictions is the definition of absurd.
He's leaning his argument on some technicalities: either that it wasn't specifically Israel who made the offer (it was the UN or someone else) or that the offer was verbal and not directly in writing (Camp David).

tequila4kapp
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Thanks.
This can get silly on both sides, arguing minutia. For example, there were no Palestinians in 1936 or 1948, just Arabs. Much like his minutia, does it matter? There were 5 distinct opportunities for independent statehood.
sycasey
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tequila4kapp said:

Thanks.
This can get silly on both sides, arguing minutia. For example, there were no Palestinians in 1936 or 1948, just Arabs. Much like his minutia, does it matter? There were 5 distinct opportunities for independent statehood.
I think the Palestinian leaders have had opportunities for independent statehood and kept turning it down because they (incorrectly) thought they could get more.

And now I also think the current Israeli government is being foolish to explicitly state that they will not allow an independent Palestinian state. I don't know where they think this will lead.
tequila4kapp
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sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

Thanks.
This can get silly on both sides, arguing minutia. For example, there were no Palestinians in 1936 or 1948, just Arabs. Much like his minutia, does it matter? There were 5 distinct opportunities for independent statehood.
I think the Palestinian leaders have had opportunities for independent statehood and kept turning it down because they (incorrectly) thought they could get more.

And now I also think the current Israeli government is being foolish to explicitly state that they will not allow an independent Palestinian state. I don't know where they think this will lead.
I can think of only 4 long term options:
1. Exterminate all Palestinians
2. Exterminate all Jews
3. A single state with Jews/Palestinians living together
4. Two state solution.

Only the last of those options is viable, though not easy for either side.
sycasey
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tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

Thanks.
This can get silly on both sides, arguing minutia. For example, there were no Palestinians in 1936 or 1948, just Arabs. Much like his minutia, does it matter? There were 5 distinct opportunities for independent statehood.
I think the Palestinian leaders have had opportunities for independent statehood and kept turning it down because they (incorrectly) thought they could get more.

And now I also think the current Israeli government is being foolish to explicitly state that they will not allow an independent Palestinian state. I don't know where they think this will lead.
I can think of only 3 long term options:
1. Exterminate all Palestinians
2. Incorporate all Palestinians into a Jewish state
3. Two state solution.

Only the last of those options is viable, though not easy for either side.
Right, and also not really viable as long as either side is saying they won't support it at all.

There's not a good way for Palestinians to get rid of Hamas right now. Israel could get a new government.
Unit2Sucks
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There is a lot of magical thinking about what will happen if the anti-Israel forces prevail.

What I am pretty certain on is that it would never end with the Palestinians having a state to call their own from the river to the sea.

It would likely be determined by the winner of a large-scale conflict between the various Middle Eastern nations with Palestinians caught in the crossfire. Iran isn't funding Hamas and Hezbollah out of the goodness of its heart in order to help the Palestinian people achieve peace and prosperity.

bear2034
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tequila4kapp said:


I can think of only 4 long term options:
1. Exterminate all Palestinians
2. Exterminate all Jews
3. A single state with Jews/Palestinians living together
4. Two state solution.

Only the last of those options is viable, though not easy for either side.

Option 5

Bring all women, children, and elderly out of Gaza to parts of Israel, Jordan, and Egypt. Leave the rest in Gaza. Have the Palestinian males fight it out with their Hamas brethren.
bearister
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20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
oski003
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bearister said:

20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?


Has Hamas asked for peace? Are they willing to return the hostages and stop attacking Israel?
tequila4kapp
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bearister said:

20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?
20k, per Hamas.
8k of the 20k are Hamas, per IDF.
My line is no targeting civilians independently. Otherwise, Hamas is pure evil and must be eradicated at all costs.

If I was Israeli's PM I would be looking extremely hard for creative solutions whereby Palestinians are moved north - even outside Gaza - secured and protected, as the IDF fights southward. Something to get any Palestinians we can out of the war zone. Treat them well, care for them. When Hamas is destroyed rebuild their homes and move them back in to Gaza. Demonstrate behaviors that prove there's a different path forward once Hamas, the PA and other terrorist organizations are gone.
bearister
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"Hamas is pure evil and must be eradicated at all costs."


Hey, you're honest. No line.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Cal88
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tequila4kapp said:

bearister said:

20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?
20k, per Hamas.
8k of the 20k are Hamas, per IDF.

My line is no targeting civilians independently. Otherwise, Hamas is pure evil and must be eradicated at all costs.

If I was Israeli's PM I would be looking extremely hard for creative solutions whereby Palestinians are moved north - even outside Gaza - secured and protected, as the IDF fights southward. Something to get any Palestinians we can out of the war zone. Treat them well, care for them. When Hamas is destroyed rebuild their homes and move them back in to Gaza. Demonstrate behaviors that prove there's a different path forward once Hamas, the PA and other terrorist organizations are gone.


65%-70% of those who are dying are women and children. So Israel is claiming here that nearly all the men they are killing by carpet bombing Gaza and destroying half the buildings are Hamas fighters. A patently absurd claim.

The Israeli propaganda in this war is nearly as appalling as the wholesale slaughter.
oski003
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Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

bearister said:

20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?
20k, per Hamas.
8k of the 20k are Hamas, per IDF.

My line is no targeting civilians independently. Otherwise, Hamas is pure evil and must be eradicated at all costs.

If I was Israeli's PM I would be looking extremely hard for creative solutions whereby Palestinians are moved north - even outside Gaza - secured and protected, as the IDF fights southward. Something to get any Palestinians we can out of the war zone. Treat them well, care for them. When Hamas is destroyed rebuild their homes and move them back in to Gaza. Demonstrate behaviors that prove there's a different path forward once Hamas, the PA and other terrorist organizations are gone.


65%-70% of those who are dying are women and children. So Israel is claiming here that nearly all the men they are killing by carpet bombing Gaza and destroying half the buildings are Hamas fighters. A patently absurd claim.

The Israeli propaganda in this war is nearly as appalling as the wholesale slaughter.


Is a 17 year old boy with a machine gun considered a child in your statistic?
calbear93
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tequila4kapp said:

bearister said:

20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?
20k, per Hamas.
8k of the 20k are Hamas, per IDF.
My line is no targeting civilians independently. Otherwise, Hamas is pure evil and must be eradicated at all costs.

If I was Israeli's PM I would be looking extremely hard for creative solutions whereby Palestinians are moved north - even outside Gaza - secured and protected, as the IDF fights southward. Something to get any Palestinians we can out of the war zone. Treat them well, care for them. When Hamas is destroyed rebuild their homes and move them back in to Gaza. Demonstrate behaviors that prove there's a different path forward once Hamas, the PA and other terrorist organizations are gone.


This is exactly what I am thinking. This massive destruction is making future Hamas members, creating support for Hamas among the surviving Palestinians, making a two state future unstable, and making Israel unsafe. We can support Israel and support their right to defend themselves while disagreeing, as I am, with their scorched earth tactics.
Cal88
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calbear93 said:

tequila4kapp said:

bearister said:

20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?
20k, per Hamas.
8k of the 20k are Hamas, per IDF.
My line is no targeting civilians independently. Otherwise, Hamas is pure evil and must be eradicated at all costs.

If I was Israeli's PM I would be looking extremely hard for creative solutions whereby Palestinians are moved north - even outside Gaza - secured and protected, as the IDF fights southward. Something to get any Palestinians we can out of the war zone. Treat them well, care for them. When Hamas is destroyed rebuild their homes and move them back in to Gaza. Demonstrate behaviors that prove there's a different path forward once Hamas, the PA and other terrorist organizations are gone.


This is exactly what I am thinking. This massive destruction is making future Hamas members, creating support for Hamas among the surviving Palestinians, making a two state future unstable, and making Israel unsafe. We can support Israel and support their right to defend themselves while disagreeing, as I am, with their scorched earth tactics.

The Israeli scorched earth tactics started out in 1947. You don't empty out hundreds of Palestinian villages by sending them eviction notices.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1947%E2%80%931949_Palestine_war

This is the topology of what has been going on there before October 7 2023:




Israel's main objectives in this Gaza episode is to demolish almost all buildings in Gaza, to destroy their entire infrastructure both as an act of pure vengeful bloodlust and as a calculated campaign to drive several hundred thousands more Palestinians out of Palestine.

Israeli soldiers brought with them a banner declaring their new Gaza land claim.

"Our fighters in Gaza, only settlement will be considered a victory"

The notion that Israel offered to share Palestine has been an ongoing joke for decades now. They have always intended to colonize the entire country, West Bank included, and then some (Golan Heights, bequeathed to Israel by God, and by Donald Trump). Rabin was the last proponent of a fair settlement on the Israeli side, a stance for which he paid the ultimate price.
Cal88
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oski003 said:

Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

bearister said:

20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?
20k, per Hamas.
8k of the 20k are Hamas, per IDF.

My line is no targeting civilians independently. Otherwise, Hamas is pure evil and must be eradicated at all costs.

If I was Israeli's PM I would be looking extremely hard for creative solutions whereby Palestinians are moved north - even outside Gaza - secured and protected, as the IDF fights southward. Something to get any Palestinians we can out of the war zone. Treat them well, care for them. When Hamas is destroyed rebuild their homes and move them back in to Gaza. Demonstrate behaviors that prove there's a different path forward once Hamas, the PA and other terrorist organizations are gone.


65%-70% of those who are dying are women and children. So Israel is claiming here that nearly all the men they are killing by carpet bombing Gaza and destroying half the buildings are Hamas fighters. A patently absurd claim.

The Israeli propaganda in this war is nearly as appalling as the wholesale slaughter.


Is a 17 year old boy with a machine gun considered a child in your statistic?

And dead toddlers are considered to be Chinese dolls in yours.
oski003
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Cal88 said:

oski003 said:

Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

bearister said:

20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?
20k, per Hamas.
8k of the 20k are Hamas, per IDF.

My line is no targeting civilians independently. Otherwise, Hamas is pure evil and must be eradicated at all costs.

If I was Israeli's PM I would be looking extremely hard for creative solutions whereby Palestinians are moved north - even outside Gaza - secured and protected, as the IDF fights southward. Something to get any Palestinians we can out of the war zone. Treat them well, care for them. When Hamas is destroyed rebuild their homes and move them back in to Gaza. Demonstrate behaviors that prove there's a different path forward once Hamas, the PA and other terrorist organizations are gone.


65%-70% of those who are dying are women and children. So Israel is claiming here that nearly all the men they are killing by carpet bombing Gaza and destroying half the buildings are Hamas fighters. A patently absurd claim.

The Israeli propaganda in this war is nearly as appalling as the wholesale slaughter.


Is a 17 year old boy with a machine gun considered a child in your statistic?

And dead toddlers are considered to be Chinese dolls in yours.


I remember someone else saying a dead baby was a Chinese doll. You refuted that. Are teenagers fighting Israeli soldiers? When they die, are they included in your statistics as Israel killing children?
Cal88
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oski003 said:

Cal88 said:




And dead toddlers are considered to be Chinese dolls in yours.

I remember someone else saying a dead baby was a Chinese doll. You refuted that. Are teenagers fighting Israeli soldiers? When they die, are they included in your statistics as Israel killing children?

It looks like you're at point #3 here.

Big C
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calbear93 said:

tequila4kapp said:

bearister said:

20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?
20k, per Hamas.
8k of the 20k are Hamas, per IDF.
My line is no targeting civilians independently. Otherwise, Hamas is pure evil and must be eradicated at all costs.

If I was Israeli's PM I would be looking extremely hard for creative solutions whereby Palestinians are moved north - even outside Gaza - secured and protected, as the IDF fights southward. Something to get any Palestinians we can out of the war zone. Treat them well, care for them. When Hamas is destroyed rebuild their homes and move them back in to Gaza. Demonstrate behaviors that prove there's a different path forward once Hamas, the PA and other terrorist organizations are gone.


This is exactly what I am thinking. This massive destruction is making future Hamas members, creating support for Hamas among the surviving Palestinians, making a two state future unstable, and making Israel unsafe. We can support Israel and support their right to defend themselves while disagreeing, as I am, with their scorched earth tactics.

Me too. Let's say the Israeli govt's response to 10/7 is justified because...

a) lots of Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas and most of them are at least partially supportive of them
b) Hamas has embedded themselves in Gaza to where it's almost impossible to weed out the bad guys

It's still a bad idea because they are losing the hearts and minds of the people in the world that surround and vastly outnumber them, so how can this possibly end well for Israel?
bear2034
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Cal88 said:



65%-70% of those who are dying are women and children. So Israel is claiming here that nearly all the men they are killing by carpet bombing Gaza and destroying half the buildings are Hamas fighters. A patently absurd claim.

The Israeli propaganda in this war is nearly as appalling as the wholesale slaughter.

The Guardian article you tweeted a couple of pages back stated 40% of those killed by the IDF were Hamas.
cbbass1
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oski003 said:

bearister said:

20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?


Has Hamas asked for peace? Are they willing to return the hostages and stop attacking Israel?
Don't Hamas & the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves, especially from indiscriminate bombing and the intentional attacks on civilians?

If you don't think that Hamas and the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves -- but the Israelis DO -- what makes that OK?

Official U.S. policy, and worldwide consensus, is that a 2-state solution is the only sustainable path to long-term peace in Israel.

But Bibi Netanyahu proudly proclaims that there will be no Palestinian State. In fact, he admits that he's dedicated himself to making sure that there is NO Palestinian State. He's promised that he's the ONLY one who can guarantee that a 2-state solution will NOT happen.

If there's no 1-state solution, AND no 2-state solution, the only alternative is genocide & ethnic cleansing.

Don't listen to what Netanyahu and the Likud/Zionists say to U.S. news agencies, in English. Listen to what they're saying for domestic distribution, in Hebrew:
'I Am For War Crimes': Israelis Say Quiet Part Out Loud

When people tell you exactly who they are, believe them.
[url=https://youtu.be/yMY4ZaoflNc][/url]

IF We (the U.S.) don't force Israel to stop killing innocent civilians -- by withholding $$$ and weapons -- we'll soon find ourselves in WW3.

Then I have to ask: "How're ya gonna pay for that?"

Israel's miscalculation: Israel is losing the U.S.


dajo9
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Israel is doing to Gaza what the Russians did to Prussia in WWII. The Germans were the bad guys in WWII. Does that make what the Russians did in Prussia, right?
Cal88
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bear2034 said:

Cal88 said:



65%-70% of those who are dying are women and children. So Israel is claiming here that nearly all the men they are killing by carpet bombing Gaza and destroying half the buildings are Hamas fighters. A patently absurd claim.

The Israeli propaganda in this war is nearly as appalling as the wholesale slaughter.

The Guardian article you tweeted a couple of pages back stated 40% of those killed by the IDF were Hamas.

The Guardian used unfiltered IDF data. It wouldn't be the first time that they were wrong, most of their coverage over the years has been very pro-Israel, they were a major part of the campaign to bring down Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn because he was the only major British political figure who wasn't a complete zionist.

To claim that 40% of those killed by Israel were Hamas fighters implies that 100%+ of the men killed from bombing tens of thousands of Gaza homes were Hamas fighters, which is a completely ridiculous premise. Independent military analyts like Col. MacGregor or John Mearsheimer have stated that Hamas losses from the bombings so far have been relatively minor.
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Israel is doing to Gaza what the Russians did to Prussia in WWII. The Germans were the bad guys in WWII. Does that make what the Russians did in Prussia, right?

You sound like a Russian apologist and a Putin shill.

By the way is Putin still dead, or did he resuscitate?
Cal88
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cbbass1 said:

oski003 said:

bearister said:

20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?


Has Hamas asked for peace? Are they willing to return the hostages and stop attacking Israel?
Don't Hamas & the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves, especially from indiscriminate bombing and the intentional attacks on civilians?

If you don't think that Hamas and the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves -- but the Israelis DO -- what makes that OK?

Official U.S. policy, and worldwide consensus, is that a 2-state solution is the only sustainable path to long-term peace in Israel.

But Bibi Netanyahu proudly proclaims that there will be no Palestinian State. In fact, he admits that he's dedicated himself to making sure that there is NO Palestinian State. He's promised that he's the ONLY one who can guarantee that a 2-state solution will NOT happen.

If there's no 1-state solution, AND no 2-state solution, the only alternative is genocide & ethnic cleansing.

Don't listen to what Netanyahu and the Likud/Zionists say to U.S. news agencies, in English. Listen to what they're saying for domestic distribution, in Hebrew:
'I Am For War Crimes': Israelis Say Quiet Part Out Loud

When people tell you exactly who they are, believe them.
[url=https://youtu.be/yMY4ZaoflNc][/url]

IF We (the U.S.) don't force Israel to stop killing innocent civilians -- by withholding $$$ and weapons -- we'll soon find ourselves in WW3.

Then I have to ask: "How're ya gonna pay for that?"

Israel's miscalculation: Israel is losing the U.S.




Here are the videos linked above



dajo9
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Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Israel is doing to Gaza what the Russians did to Prussia in WWII. The Germans were the bad guys in WWII. Does that make what the Russians did in Prussia, right?

You sound like a Russian apologist and a Putin shill.

By the way is Putin still dead, or did he resuscitate?


Putin is dead. Do not be fooled by deepfake AI technology.
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Israel is doing to Gaza what the Russians did to Prussia in WWII. The Germans were the bad guys in WWII. Does that make what the Russians did in Prussia, right?

You sound like a Russian apologist and a Putin shill.

By the way is Putin still dead, or did he resuscitate?


Putin is dead. Do not be fooled by deepfake AI technology.

 
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