BearGoggles said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Peanuts said:

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Biden told confidants in New York this week that he was livid at Netanyahu and did not believe the Israeli leader wanted to reach peace

He was frustrated about how often Netanyahu had humiliated Blinken and the president himself https://t.co/XHuevBOVNX

— Jonathan Lemire (@JonLemire) September 27, 2024

BREAKING: White House aides say Biden is "incandescent with rage" over Netanyahu's strike on Beirut, and that the president vows "ironclad support for Israel with absolutely no red lines"

— ☀️ Jon Schwarz ☀️ (@schwarz) September 27, 2024

This analysis by Hassan Nasrallah is far superior to that of Western leftists who constantly tell us that Western governments are controlled by the entity https://t.co/wTGeqUQFQh

— Zaid 🇭🇹 (@Zaid_ISN) September 28, 2024

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Biden is beyond idiocy. If Mexico launched thousands of rockets across the border and US citizens had been displaced from homes for months he'd…ask for a peace deal? Actually, given his stupidity he possibly would.

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When I was in poli sci classes at Cal (late 80s), there was much discussion and study of the failures/lessons of the Vietnam war.

The chief takeaway was that you fight wars to win and bring overwhelming force. No political half measures. Or don't fight the wars at all. That was the doctrine that Colin Powell and his ilk brought to the wars in the 1990s which were successful (on the battlefield, if not politically). But the lesson was forgotten.

The US policy in the middle east and Ukraine is muddled and absurd. If we're going to be involved (directly or by proxy), fight to win. Don't hand cuff the Israel/Ukrainians with rules of engagement that the other side does not employ and other political concerns.

Israel is winning. It is insane that Biden (really Obama and his minions) want to save Iran and Hezbollah, primarily so the war will be resolved before the election. Fortunately, I don't think Israel will be stopped this time. They understand they need to win decisively and when they listened to the US in gaza, it completely backfired (again).

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When I was in poly sci classes at Cal (late 70s, very early 80s), they talked about that (^) and also...

+ not to confuse a civil war with dominoes falling
+ risking possible nuclear war is the gravest risk of all

Not to say I disagree with you, because I don't (at least not to a great extent). Just that the lessons of history are extremely complicated and nuanced. Just as an example, you say "Israel is winning." You mean they are winning militarily, in the short-term, right? (not that this is bad, compared to the alternative)

Big C said:

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BearGoggles said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Peanuts said:

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Biden told confidants in New York this week that he was livid at Netanyahu and did not believe the Israeli leader wanted to reach peace

He was frustrated about how often Netanyahu had humiliated Blinken and the president himself https://t.co/XHuevBOVNX

— Jonathan Lemire (@JonLemire) September 27, 2024

BREAKING: White House aides say Biden is "incandescent with rage" over Netanyahu's strike on Beirut, and that the president vows "ironclad support for Israel with absolutely no red lines"

— ☀️ Jon Schwarz ☀️ (@schwarz) September 27, 2024

This analysis by Hassan Nasrallah is far superior to that of Western leftists who constantly tell us that Western governments are controlled by the entity https://t.co/wTGeqUQFQh

— Zaid 🇭🇹 (@Zaid_ISN) September 28, 2024

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Biden is beyond idiocy. If Mexico launched thousands of rockets across the border and US citizens had been displaced from homes for months he'd…ask for a peace deal? Actually, given his stupidity he possibly would.

---

When I was in poli sci classes at Cal (late 80s), there was much discussion and study of the failures/lessons of the Vietnam war.

The chief takeaway was that you fight wars to win and bring overwhelming force. No political half measures. Or don't fight the wars at all. That was the doctrine that Colin Powell and his ilk brought to the wars in the 1990s which were successful (on the battlefield, if not politically). But the lesson was forgotten.

The US policy in the middle east and Ukraine is muddled and absurd. If we're going to be involved (directly or by proxy), fight to win. Don't hand cuff the Israel/Ukrainians with rules of engagement that the other side does not employ and other political concerns.

Israel is winning. It is insane that Biden (really Obama and his minions) want to save Iran and Hezbollah, primarily so the war will be resolved before the election. Fortunately, I don't think Israel will be stopped this time. They understand they need to win decisively and when they listened to the US in gaza, it completely backfired (again).

---

When I was in poly sci classes at Cal (late 70s, very early 80s), they talked about that (^) and also...

+ not to confuse a civil war with dominoes falling
+ risking possible nuclear war is the gravest risk of all

Not to say I disagree with you, because I don't (at least not to a great extent). Just that the lessons of history are extremely complicated and nuanced. Just as an example, you say "Israel is winning." You mean they are winning militarily, in the short-term, right? (not that this is bad, compared to the alternative)

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Yes. My post was about winning on the battlefield. It is a separate question as to whether it was a wise war and there are always unintended consequences and known risks.

From the Israeli perspective, this is a war for their existence (or at least their way of life). This is not the US/USSR/France/England intervening in a far off place under a dominos or balance of power type of argument.

And to be clear, in this case, the "what happens after" question is a huge risk and unknown. Hezbollah exists in large part because Israel invaded Lebanon to remove the PLO. I seems likely that Lebanon could in fact have another civil war after Israel leaves (I expect a ground invasion, but don't think they will stay very long).

For Israel, the current situation was untenable. Hezbollah was firing missiles at Israel and Israel had no choice but to take action. And as I posted previously, they should fight to win and at the same time be planning for what happens after.

dajo9 said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Big C said:

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BearGoggles said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Peanuts said:

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Biden told confidants in New York this week that he was livid at Netanyahu and did not believe the Israeli leader wanted to reach peace

He was frustrated about how often Netanyahu had humiliated Blinken and the president himself https://t.co/XHuevBOVNX

— Jonathan Lemire (@JonLemire) September 27, 2024

BREAKING: White House aides say Biden is "incandescent with rage" over Netanyahu's strike on Beirut, and that the president vows "ironclad support for Israel with absolutely no red lines"

— ☀️ Jon Schwarz ☀️ (@schwarz) September 27, 2024

This analysis by Hassan Nasrallah is far superior to that of Western leftists who constantly tell us that Western governments are controlled by the entity https://t.co/wTGeqUQFQh

— Zaid 🇭🇹 (@Zaid_ISN) September 28, 2024

---

Biden is beyond idiocy. If Mexico launched thousands of rockets across the border and US citizens had been displaced from homes for months he'd…ask for a peace deal? Actually, given his stupidity he possibly would.

---

When I was in poli sci classes at Cal (late 80s), there was much discussion and study of the failures/lessons of the Vietnam war.

The chief takeaway was that you fight wars to win and bring overwhelming force. No political half measures. Or don't fight the wars at all. That was the doctrine that Colin Powell and his ilk brought to the wars in the 1990s which were successful (on the battlefield, if not politically). But the lesson was forgotten.

The US policy in the middle east and Ukraine is muddled and absurd. If we're going to be involved (directly or by proxy), fight to win. Don't hand cuff the Israel/Ukrainians with rules of engagement that the other side does not employ and other political concerns.

Israel is winning. It is insane that Biden (really Obama and his minions) want to save Iran and Hezbollah, primarily so the war will be resolved before the election. Fortunately, I don't think Israel will be stopped this time. They understand they need to win decisively and when they listened to the US in gaza, it completely backfired (again).

---

When I was in poly sci classes at Cal (late 70s, very early 80s), they talked about that (^) and also...

+ not to confuse a civil war with dominoes falling
+ risking possible nuclear war is the gravest risk of all

Not to say I disagree with you, because I don't (at least not to a great extent). Just that the lessons of history are extremely complicated and nuanced. Just as an example, you say "Israel is winning." You mean they are winning militarily, in the short-term, right? (not that this is bad, compared to the alternative)

---

Yes. My post was about winning on the battlefield. It is a separate question as to whether it was a wise war and there are always unintended consequences and known risks.

From the Israeli perspective, this is a war for their existence (or at least their way of life). This is not the US/USSR/France/England intervening in a far off place

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From the US perspective we have no interest in intervening in Israel's problems

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Israel doesn't need the US to intervene. It just needs the US to: (i) allow Israel to act on its own; (ii) supply weapons and support in the UN; and (iii) stop sending money to Iran.

And in case you haven't heard/noticed, Iran and its proxies have been attacking US troops stationed throughout the Middle East including as recently as yesterday. The Houthis have been disrupting international shipping for months (not targeted at Israel, but at shipping in general). So perhaps it is in the US interest to send a firm message to Iran to stop? Iran is not just an Israeli problem.

I would say that supplying weapons counts as intervening.

Israelis, particularly the current government, have been consumed with revenge and bloodlust on a biblical level, conflating Palestinians and now Lebanese with "Amalek", a people that the ancient hebrew god charged them to exterminate to the last child. That goes a long way in explaining the incredible savagery and disproportional response to the attack of October 7.

In the past, nearly all US presidents restrained that Israeli impulse for violence. Notably, Reagan put a stop to the Israeli bombing campaign of Lebanese cities:

In 1982, when Israel ruthlessly bombed Beirut, Lebanon, then US President Ronald Reagan angrily called Israeli PM Menachem Begin.

Reagan then deliberately used the word “Holocaust” to describe what Israel was doing to Lebanese & Palestinians.

But Biden won’t dare to reprimand… pic.twitter.com/FpXyDS7Uv5

— S.L. Kanthan (@Kanthan2030) February 14, 2024

Biden is a walking dead, and Blinken is on board with the current slaughter, as is Trump. This represents a significant departure from previous US policy of restraining Israel, whose supporters here love to portray as victims.

Cal88 said:

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Israelis, particularly the current government, have been consumed with revenge and bloodlust on a biblical level, conflating Palestinians and now Lebanese with "Amalek", a people that the ancient hebrew god charged them to exterminate to the last child. That goes a long way in explaining the incredible savagery and disproportional response to the attack of October 7.

In the past, nearly all US presidents restrained that Israeli impulse for violence. Notably, Reagan put a stop to the Israeli bombing campaign of Lebanese cities:

In 1982, when Israel ruthlessly bombed Beirut, Lebanon, then US President Ronald Reagan angrily called Israeli PM Menachem Begin.

Reagan then deliberately used the word “Holocaust” to describe what Israel was doing to Lebanese & Palestinians.

But Biden won’t dare to reprimand… pic.twitter.com/FpXyDS7Uv5

— S.L. Kanthan (@Kanthan2030) February 14, 2024

Biden is a walking dead, and Blinken is on board with the current slaughter, as is Trump. This represents a significant departure from previous US policy of restraining Israel, whose supporters here love to portray as victims.

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Yes it is definitely the Israelis and not the Palestinians or radical jihadist Shias who are out for bloodlust and revenge. Hamas and Hezbollah are totally rational peace seeking groups with a deep respect for human rights.

If the Palestinians were not consumed with revenge and a totally unworkable right of return, they'd have a state now.

The (allegedly) disproportionate response to 10/7 was exactly that - a response. Your own words (a "response") tell you who is responsible for these chain of events. Hamas, with help from Hezbollah which started firing its missiles on 10/8 (before Israel had even mounted a response in Gaza).

BearGoggles said:

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Cal88 said:

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Israelis, particularly the current government, have been consumed with revenge and bloodlust on a biblical level, conflating Palestinians and now Lebanese with "Amalek", a people that the ancient hebrew god charged them to exterminate to the last child. That goes a long way in explaining the incredible savagery and disproportional response to the attack of October 7.

In the past, nearly all US presidents restrained that Israeli impulse for violence. Notably, Reagan put a stop to the Israeli bombing campaign of Lebanese cities:

Biden is a walking dead, and Blinken is on board with the current slaughter, as is Trump. This represents a significant departure from previous US policy of restraining Israel, whose supporters here love to portray as victims.

---

Yes it is definitely the Israelis and not the Palestinians or radical jihadist Shias who are out for bloodlust and revenge. Hamas and Hezbollah are totally rational peace seeking groups with a deep respect for human rights.

---

That is true, the Israelis have been conducting a large-scale massacre in Gaza, bombing everything in sight indiscriminately. They are deliberately starving that population and systematically creating the conditions for the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians, according to the Lancet and other independent western sources. That is a fact.

As to Hezbollah, here is another fact:

Israeli claims it’s defending itself

Let’s look at the facts (since October 7):

Israel - 7,845 аttacks (82%), 642 viсtims

Hezbollah - 1,768 аttacks (18%), 32 viсtims pic.twitter.com/ySsBYVp7ef

— What the media hides. (@narrative_hole) September 19, 2024

Israeli strikes on Lebanon have outnumbered Lebanese strikes on Israel 7,745 to 1,724, a ratio of 4.5x since October 8.

Recent Hezbollah escalation is still outnumbered by 3.5x.

Only in two countries does such a pattern get framed around "Israel defending itself." https://t.co/YgrywsxHGD

— Carwil Bjork-James (@CarwilBJ) August 25, 2024

Neither Hezbollah nor Iran wants war with Israel, Bibi and his bunch on the other hand have been doing their best to provoke it, with the goal of dragging the US into a massive escalation in the Mideast.

Quote:

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If the Palestinians were not consumed with revenge and a totally unworkable right of return, they'd have a state now.

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This is another lie, it is very clear that Nethanyahu has scuttled every attempt at a viable 2-state solution. The only Israeli PM who genuinely worked towards that was Itzak Rabin, and he was offed by the very same people who are running Israel today, religious extremists like Itamar Ben-Gvir, who celebrated the burning to death of a Palestinian baby, and Bezalel Smotrich - that guy in the bottom:

the baby who was burned alive is now part of depraved Israeli marriage rituals, where they take photos of him and stab it as a symbol for all Palestinian babies they want to burn and kill. Ben Gvir, now a top member of Netanyahu's government, has joined in this genocidal ritual: pic.twitter.com/8QbmbkNw7o

— ☀️👀 (@zei_squirrel) November 20, 2023

Smotrich: "No one in the world will allow us to starve to death 2 million citizens, although it may be just and moral"

Now with the video.
Israeli society is so fucked up, that the fact that Smotrich acknowledges that we have to allow aid in Gaza makes him sound like a moderate. https://t.co/GBCrNKz99h pic.twitter.com/G8tKqsDN6A

— B.M. (@ireallyhateyou) August 6, 2024

Cal88 said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Cal88 said:

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Israelis, particularly the current government, have been consumed with revenge and bloodlust on a biblical level, conflating Palestinians and now Lebanese with "Amalek", a people that the ancient hebrew god charged them to exterminate to the last child. That goes a long way in explaining the incredible savagery and disproportional response to the attack of October 7.

In the past, nearly all US presidents restrained that Israeli impulse for violence. Notably, Reagan put a stop to the Israeli bombing campaign of Lebanese cities:

Biden is a walking dead, and Blinken is on board with the current slaughter, as is Trump. This represents a significant departure from previous US policy of restraining Israel, whose supporters here love to portray as victims.

---

Yes it is definitely the Israelis and not the Palestinians or radical jihadist Shias who are out for bloodlust and revenge. Hamas and Hezbollah are totally rational peace seeking groups with a deep respect for human rights.

---

That is true, the Israelis have been conducting a large-scale massacre in Gaza, bombing everything in sight indiscriminately. They are deliberately starving that population and systematically creating the conditions for the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians, according to the Lancet and other independent western sources. That is a fact.

As to Hezbollah, here is another fact:

Israeli claims it’s defending itself

Let’s look at the facts (since October 7):

Israel - 7,845 аttacks (82%), 642 viсtims

Hezbollah - 1,768 аttacks (18%), 32 viсtims pic.twitter.com/ySsBYVp7ef

— What the media hides. (@narrative_hole) September 19, 2024

Israeli strikes on Lebanon have outnumbered Lebanese strikes on Israel 7,745 to 1,724, a ratio of 4.5x since October 8.

Recent Hezbollah escalation is still outnumbered by 3.5x.

Only in two countries does such a pattern get framed around "Israel defending itself." https://t.co/YgrywsxHGD

— Carwil Bjork-James (@CarwilBJ) August 25, 2024

Neither Hezbollah nor Iran wants war with Israel, Bibi and his bunch on the other hand have been doing their best to provoke it, with the goal of dragging the US into a massive escalation in the Mideast.

Quote:

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If the Palestinians were not consumed with revenge and a totally unworkable right of return, they'd have a state now.

---

This is another lie, it is very clear that Nethanyahu has scuttled every attempt at a viable 2-state solution. The only Israeli PM who genuinely worked towards that was Itzak Rabin, and he was offed by the very same people who are running Israel today, religious extremists like Itamar Ben-Gvir, who celebrated the burning to death of a Palestinian baby, and Bezalel Smotrich - that guy in the bottom:

the baby who was burned alive is now part of depraved Israeli marriage rituals, where they take photos of him and stab it as a symbol for all Palestinian babies they want to burn and kill. Ben Gvir, now a top member of Netanyahu's government, has joined in this genocidal ritual: pic.twitter.com/8QbmbkNw7o

— ☀️👀 (@zei_squirrel) November 20, 2023

Smotrich: "No one in the world will allow us to starve to death 2 million citizens, although it may be just and moral"

Now with the video.
Israeli society is so fucked up, that the fact that Smotrich acknowledges that we have to allow aid in Gaza makes him sound like a moderate. https://t.co/GBCrNKz99h pic.twitter.com/G8tKqsDN6A

— B.M. (@ireallyhateyou) August 6, 2024

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Virtually none of this is true. But even if it is it all emanates from Hamas and Hezbollah attacking on 10/7 and 10/8. FAFO as they say.

And LMAO at Hezbollah and Iran not wanting war. Of course they don't want a hot war where they'd lose. They'd much rather engage in terrorist attacks and low grade actions. Why would Israel - or any other rational actor - agree to those rules of (non)engagement. Hamas and Hezbollah miscalculated and provoked Israel into fighting a full scale war. Again, FAFO.

You have not addressed the key fact I mentioned above. Hezbollah started firing missiles on 10/8 - the day after the 10/7 Hamas massacre and BEFORE Israel had mounted any response. To repeat - Hezbollah attacked Israel before Israel invaded Gaza or engaged in heavy bombing and then continued firing missiles ever since. That is an act of war - Israel did not attack Lebanon. You are completely twisted if you think that Israel's actions at this point are not justified (i.e., fighting back in a war that Hezbollah started).

And your analysis of the two state solution (or lack thereof) suggests you think Bibi has been the only prime minister of Israel. He has not and prior prime ministers (Olmert/Barak) made definitive two state offers that were rejected by Arafat because: (i) he was a coward; and (ii) the Palestinians insisted on right of return formulations that were not workable. And then Arafat started the intifada which created Bibi. As saying goes, the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

If you really cared about the Palestinians or the Lebanese (which I don't think you do), you'd be rooting for Hamas and Hezbollah to be defeated so that those peoples could improve their lives and eventually have independent states that live in peace with Israel and their other neighbors.

I'll ask you this - simple question. Would it be better for Palestinians and Lebanese if Hamas and Hezbollah no longer had weapons or political power? I'll wait.

Excellent post.

It is so tiresome having to respond to the lunacy but it is so important to keep doing so.

Of course Hezbollah attacked Israel first, did so before Israel entered Gaza and did so for nearly a year before Israel officially responded. There is no other nation on the face of the earth that would be expected to show so much restraint. Wonder why Israel is expected to play by different rules...

Re 2 state solution, show us any Palestinian entity with some power who acknowledges Israel's right to exist. The inherent contradiction of 2 state solution and 1 side believing the other should be removed from the face of the earth is amazingly lost on some people.

I will answer your question: Yes, of course it would be better if Hamas and Hezbollah were not armed and/or had no political power. It would be even better if they did not exist. We would have a 2 state solution and Palestinians would have more autonomy and freedom. (the anti-semites and anti-zionists will retort they only exist because of the Zionist Jews, not their perverted world view)

Zippergate said:

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They say a picture says a thousand words

🚨Interceptions over the Kotel in Jersualem. pic.twitter.com/R0WG5vmXN7

— Raylan Givens (@JewishWarrior13) October 1, 2024

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"Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps said this latest barrage of missiles is in retaliation for the killing of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah in Beirut, Lebanon, in an Israeli airstrike late last week and the killing of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran in July, according to Fox News Chief Foreign Correspondent Trey Yingst."

Doesn't Iran formally deny arming H and H?
What right do they have to retaliate for state action against these non-Iranian actors?

Zippergate said:

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They say a picture says a thousand words

🚨Interceptions over the Kotel in Jersualem. pic.twitter.com/R0WG5vmXN7

— Raylan Givens (@JewishWarrior13) October 1, 2024

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They are shooting down the Iranian missiles Biden paid for.

Reporter: "What's your message to Iran?"

Kamala: "Don't."

You'll be shocked to learn this diplomatic strategy did not work out.pic.twitter.com/Cx2IMC8axF

— Trump War Room (@TrumpWarRoom) October 1, 2024

Wasn't this the same one word message Kamala gave to migrants crossing the southern border?

oski003 said:

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Zippergate said:

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They say a picture says a thousand words

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They are shooting down the Iranian missiles Biden paid for.

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They are doing the meme right now. pic.twitter.com/UuXV3V2FuF

— Wall Street Silver (@WallStreetSilv) October 1, 2024

Abandon Harris said:

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Ayman Al Safdi is pissed..
a rare moment.. pic.twitter.com/oboSvNkK7w

— Abier (@abierkhatib) September 29, 2024

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This gentleman's statement that he and 57 other Muslim representatives can guarantee the safety and security of Israel is curious, as that effectively means confronting Iran and its proxies head on over this issue.

Still, I find it encouraging to see any open discussion of recognizing Israel (piggy backing on the Arab Peace Initiative).

There is no military solution for Israel.

The sooner they recognize this the better.

They will not be able to bomb their way out of their problems. Their population is too small relative to their enemies and they are surrounded by them.

Cal88 said:

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Israel doesn't recognize Palestine. "from the river to the sea" is enshrined in the Likudnik platform for decades, Netanyahu and co have scuttled any attempt at a 2-state solution, Oslo included.

Quote:

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The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. Likud Party Platform, 1977

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https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/

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As if it matters, I disagree with him/them on that.

The people of Israel will triumph over this unimaginable evil. Inbar Segev z"l was among the victims in Yafo today, killed by terrorists while holding her baby.

Inbar Segev, a 33 year old mother to a nine month old baby, was shot to death last night by Palestinian terrorists, as were another six Israelis.

A passerby took the baby to a hospital.

May she rest in peace💔🇮🇱 pic.twitter.com/iPW4dKGsb2

— Naftali Bennett נפתלי בנט (@naftalibennett) October 2, 2024

As they should.

Bush was right over 20 years ago to identify Iran as being in the Axis of Evil. That nation is the origin of virtually all security risks to Israel. They just fired hundred of missiles at Israel. They armed Hezbollah, enabling them to fire thousands of missiles from the north for over a year. An anticipated military response probably wouldn't even be newsworthy if it were any other country.