The Non-Yogi Israel-Palestine war thread

225,733 Views | 2627 Replies | Last: 10 hrs ago by Edited by Staff
Big C
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to BearGoggles • 10:34p, 9/28/24
BearGoggles said:
tequila4kapp said:
Peanuts said:



Biden is beyond idiocy. If Mexico launched thousands of rockets across the border and US citizens had been displaced from homes for months he'd…ask for a peace deal? Actually, given his stupidity he possibly would.
When I was in poli sci classes at Cal (late 80s), there was much discussion and study of the failures/lessons of the Vietnam war.

The chief takeaway was that you fight wars to win and bring overwhelming force. No political half measures. Or don't fight the wars at all. That was the doctrine that Colin Powell and his ilk brought to the wars in the 1990s which were successful (on the battlefield, if not politically). But the lesson was forgotten.

The US policy in the middle east and Ukraine is muddled and absurd. If we're going to be involved (directly or by proxy), fight to win. Don't hand cuff the Israel/Ukrainians with rules of engagement that the other side does not employ and other political concerns.

Israel is winning. It is insane that Biden (really Obama and his minions) want to save Iran and Hezbollah, primarily so the war will be resolved before the election. Fortunately, I don't think Israel will be stopped this time. They understand they need to win decisively and when they listened to the US in gaza, it completely backfired (again).

When I was in poly sci classes at Cal (late 70s, very early 80s), they talked about that (^) and also...

+ not to confuse a civil war with dominoes falling
+ risking possible nuclear war is the gravest risk of all

Not to say I disagree with you, because I don't (at least not to a great extent). Just that the lessons of history are extremely complicated and nuanced. Just as an example, you say "Israel is winning." You mean they are winning militarily, in the short-term, right? (not that this is bad, compared to the alternative)
Reply Quote
3
1 edit
BearGoggles
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Big C • 10:48p, 9/28/24
Big C said:
BearGoggles said:
tequila4kapp said:
Peanuts said:



Biden is beyond idiocy. If Mexico launched thousands of rockets across the border and US citizens had been displaced from homes for months he'd…ask for a peace deal? Actually, given his stupidity he possibly would.
When I was in poli sci classes at Cal (late 80s), there was much discussion and study of the failures/lessons of the Vietnam war.

The chief takeaway was that you fight wars to win and bring overwhelming force. No political half measures. Or don't fight the wars at all. That was the doctrine that Colin Powell and his ilk brought to the wars in the 1990s which were successful (on the battlefield, if not politically). But the lesson was forgotten.

The US policy in the middle east and Ukraine is muddled and absurd. If we're going to be involved (directly or by proxy), fight to win. Don't hand cuff the Israel/Ukrainians with rules of engagement that the other side does not employ and other political concerns.

Israel is winning. It is insane that Biden (really Obama and his minions) want to save Iran and Hezbollah, primarily so the war will be resolved before the election. Fortunately, I don't think Israel will be stopped this time. They understand they need to win decisively and when they listened to the US in gaza, it completely backfired (again).

When I was in poly sci classes at Cal (late 70s, very early 80s), they talked about that (^) and also...

+ not to confuse a civil war with dominoes falling
+ risking possible nuclear war is the gravest risk of all

Not to say I disagree with you, because I don't (at least not to a great extent). Just that the lessons of history are extremely complicated and nuanced. Just as an example, you say "Israel is winning." You mean they are winning militarily, in the short-term, right? (not that this is bad, compared to the alternative)
Yes. My post was about winning on the battlefield. It is a separate question as to whether it was a wise war and there are always unintended consequences and known risks.

From the Israeli perspective, this is a war for their existence (or at least their way of life). This is not the US/USSR/France/England intervening in a far off place under a dominos or balance of power type of argument.

And to be clear, in this case, the "what happens after" question is a huge risk and unknown. Hezbollah exists in large part because Israel invaded Lebanon to remove the PLO. I seems likely that Lebanon could in fact have another civil war after Israel leaves (I expect a ground invasion, but don't think they will stay very long).

For Israel, the current situation was untenable. Hezbollah was firing missiles at Israel and Israel had no choice but to take action. And as I posted previously, they should fight to win and at the same time be planning for what happens after.
Reply Quote
3
Big C
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to BearGoggles • 10:51p, 9/28/24

^ agreed
Reply Quote
1
bearister
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:02a, 9/29/24
Israel asks U.S. to deter Iran after Hassan Nasrallah assassination


https://www.axios.com/2024/09/28/iran-attack-israel-nasrallah-killing
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Reply Quote
dajo9
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to BearGoggles • 9:12a, 9/29/24
BearGoggles said:
Big C said:
BearGoggles said:
tequila4kapp said:
Peanuts said:



Biden is beyond idiocy. If Mexico launched thousands of rockets across the border and US citizens had been displaced from homes for months he'd…ask for a peace deal? Actually, given his stupidity he possibly would.
When I was in poli sci classes at Cal (late 80s), there was much discussion and study of the failures/lessons of the Vietnam war.

The chief takeaway was that you fight wars to win and bring overwhelming force. No political half measures. Or don't fight the wars at all. That was the doctrine that Colin Powell and his ilk brought to the wars in the 1990s which were successful (on the battlefield, if not politically). But the lesson was forgotten.

The US policy in the middle east and Ukraine is muddled and absurd. If we're going to be involved (directly or by proxy), fight to win. Don't hand cuff the Israel/Ukrainians with rules of engagement that the other side does not employ and other political concerns.

Israel is winning. It is insane that Biden (really Obama and his minions) want to save Iran and Hezbollah, primarily so the war will be resolved before the election. Fortunately, I don't think Israel will be stopped this time. They understand they need to win decisively and when they listened to the US in gaza, it completely backfired (again).

When I was in poly sci classes at Cal (late 70s, very early 80s), they talked about that (^) and also...

+ not to confuse a civil war with dominoes falling
+ risking possible nuclear war is the gravest risk of all

Not to say I disagree with you, because I don't (at least not to a great extent). Just that the lessons of history are extremely complicated and nuanced. Just as an example, you say "Israel is winning." You mean they are winning militarily, in the short-term, right? (not that this is bad, compared to the alternative)
Yes. My post was about winning on the battlefield. It is a separate question as to whether it was a wise war and there are always unintended consequences and known risks.

From the Israeli perspective, this is a war for their existence (or at least their way of life). This is not the US/USSR/France/England intervening in a far off place


From the US perspective we have no interest in intervening in Israel's problems
Reply Quote
BearGoggles
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to dajo9 • 12:45p, 9/29/24
dajo9 said:
BearGoggles said:
Big C said:
BearGoggles said:
tequila4kapp said:
Peanuts said:



Biden is beyond idiocy. If Mexico launched thousands of rockets across the border and US citizens had been displaced from homes for months he'd…ask for a peace deal? Actually, given his stupidity he possibly would.
When I was in poli sci classes at Cal (late 80s), there was much discussion and study of the failures/lessons of the Vietnam war.

The chief takeaway was that you fight wars to win and bring overwhelming force. No political half measures. Or don't fight the wars at all. That was the doctrine that Colin Powell and his ilk brought to the wars in the 1990s which were successful (on the battlefield, if not politically). But the lesson was forgotten.

The US policy in the middle east and Ukraine is muddled and absurd. If we're going to be involved (directly or by proxy), fight to win. Don't hand cuff the Israel/Ukrainians with rules of engagement that the other side does not employ and other political concerns.

Israel is winning. It is insane that Biden (really Obama and his minions) want to save Iran and Hezbollah, primarily so the war will be resolved before the election. Fortunately, I don't think Israel will be stopped this time. They understand they need to win decisively and when they listened to the US in gaza, it completely backfired (again).

When I was in poly sci classes at Cal (late 70s, very early 80s), they talked about that (^) and also...

+ not to confuse a civil war with dominoes falling
+ risking possible nuclear war is the gravest risk of all

Not to say I disagree with you, because I don't (at least not to a great extent). Just that the lessons of history are extremely complicated and nuanced. Just as an example, you say "Israel is winning." You mean they are winning militarily, in the short-term, right? (not that this is bad, compared to the alternative)
Yes. My post was about winning on the battlefield. It is a separate question as to whether it was a wise war and there are always unintended consequences and known risks.

From the Israeli perspective, this is a war for their existence (or at least their way of life). This is not the US/USSR/France/England intervening in a far off place


From the US perspective we have no interest in intervening in Israel's problems
Israel doesn't need the US to intervene. It just needs the US to: (i) allow Israel to act on its own; (ii) supply weapons and support in the UN; and (iii) stop sending money to Iran.

And in case you haven't heard/noticed, Iran and its proxies have been attacking US troops stationed throughout the Middle East including as recently as yesterday. The Houthis have been disrupting international shipping for months (not targeted at Israel, but at shipping in general). So perhaps it is in the US interest to send a firm message to Iran to stop? Iran is not just an Israeli problem.
Reply Quote
3
sycasey
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to BearGoggles • 12:49p, 9/29/24
I would say that supplying weapons counts as intervening.
Reply Quote
5
BearGoggles
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to sycasey • 1:39p, 9/29/24
sycasey said:
I would say that supplying weapons counts as intervening.
Two questions: (i) do you apply that standard to all countries, or just Israel; and (ii) what is the logical extension of that position?

How is it in the US interest to supply weapons to Ukraine, NATO countries, Saudi, Turkey, and lots of other countries, but not Israel?

Here is a list of where the US sends weapons. Candidly, I was surprised Israel was not higher. Please explain how it is in the US interest to supply weapons to these other countries, but not Israel.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/248552/us-arms-exports-by-country/

And for the record, Iran supplies all of the weapons to Hezbollah and Yemen/Houthis, and lots of weapons to Russia, Sudan, Hamas and others. Is it in US interests to support our allies - and prevent the expansion of Iranian influence/militantism - by countering these exports?



Reply Quote
2
1 edit
Cal88
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
3:09p, 9/29/24
Israelis, particularly the current government, have been consumed with revenge and bloodlust on a biblical level, conflating Palestinians and now Lebanese with "Amalek", a people that the ancient hebrew god charged them to exterminate to the last child. That goes a long way in explaining the incredible savagery and disproportional response to the attack of October 7.

In the past, nearly all US presidents restrained that Israeli impulse for violence. Notably, Reagan put a stop to the Israeli bombing campaign of Lebanese cities:





Biden is a walking dead, and Blinken is on board with the current slaughter, as is Trump. This represents a significant departure from previous US policy of restraining Israel, whose supporters here love to portray as victims.
Reply Quote
5
sycasey
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to BearGoggles • 3:53p, 9/29/24
BearGoggles said:
sycasey said:
I would say that supplying weapons counts as intervening.
Two questions: (i) do you apply that standard to all countries, or just Israel; and (ii) what is the logical extension of that position?

Yes, I would say the same standard applies elsewhere. That's leaving aside the question of whether or not the intervention is a good thing. For example, in Ukraine I think it is. Somewhere else, maybe not. But it is a kind of intervention.
Reply Quote
BearGoggles
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Cal88 • 6:00p, 9/29/24
Cal88 said:
Israelis, particularly the current government, have been consumed with revenge and bloodlust on a biblical level, conflating Palestinians and now Lebanese with "Amalek", a people that the ancient hebrew god charged them to exterminate to the last child. That goes a long way in explaining the incredible savagery and disproportional response to the attack of October 7.

In the past, nearly all US presidents restrained that Israeli impulse for violence. Notably, Reagan put a stop to the Israeli bombing campaign of Lebanese cities:





Biden is a walking dead, and Blinken is on board with the current slaughter, as is Trump. This represents a significant departure from previous US policy of restraining Israel, whose supporters here love to portray as victims.
Yes it is definitely the Israelis and not the Palestinians or radical jihadist Shias who are out for bloodlust and revenge. Hamas and Hezbollah are totally rational peace seeking groups with a deep respect for human rights.

If the Palestinians were not consumed with revenge and a totally unworkable right of return, they'd have a state now.

The (allegedly) disproportionate response to 10/7 was exactly that - a response. Your own words (a "response") tell you who is responsible for these chain of events. Hamas, with help from Hezbollah which started firing its missiles on 10/8 (before Israel had even mounted a response in Gaza).
Reply Quote
4
Cal88
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to BearGoggles • 6:16p, 9/29/24
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
Israelis, particularly the current government, have been consumed with revenge and bloodlust on a biblical level, conflating Palestinians and now Lebanese with "Amalek", a people that the ancient hebrew god charged them to exterminate to the last child. That goes a long way in explaining the incredible savagery and disproportional response to the attack of October 7.

In the past, nearly all US presidents restrained that Israeli impulse for violence. Notably, Reagan put a stop to the Israeli bombing campaign of Lebanese cities:

Biden is a walking dead, and Blinken is on board with the current slaughter, as is Trump. This represents a significant departure from previous US policy of restraining Israel, whose supporters here love to portray as victims.
Yes it is definitely the Israelis and not the Palestinians or radical jihadist Shias who are out for bloodlust and revenge. Hamas and Hezbollah are totally rational peace seeking groups with a deep respect for human rights.

That is true, the Israelis have been conducting a large-scale massacre in Gaza, bombing everything in sight indiscriminately. They are deliberately starving that population and systematically creating the conditions for the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians, according to the Lancet and other independent western sources. That is a fact.

As to Hezbollah, here is another fact:



Neither Hezbollah nor Iran wants war with Israel, Bibi and his bunch on the other hand have been doing their best to provoke it, with the goal of dragging the US into a massive escalation in the Mideast.


Quote:
If the Palestinians were not consumed with revenge and a totally unworkable right of return, they'd have a state now.

This is another lie, it is very clear that Nethanyahu has scuttled every attempt at a viable 2-state solution. The only Israeli PM who genuinely worked towards that was Itzak Rabin, and he was offed by the very same people who are running Israel today, religious extremists like Itamar Ben-Gvir, who celebrated the burning to death of a Palestinian baby, and Bezalel Smotrich - that guy in the bottom:




Reply Quote
4
2 edits
CaliforniaEternal
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:58p, 9/30/24
The lions of Judah have changed the world for the better in the last few weeks and the mission continues until a new reality is established in the Middle East. The enemies of Israel and the Jewish people are groaning in agony while freedom loving people in the region and around the world are in awe at what Israel is accomplishing.

Reply Quote
2
BearGoggles
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Cal88 • 1:41a, 10/1/24
Cal88 said:
BearGoggles said:
Cal88 said:
Israelis, particularly the current government, have been consumed with revenge and bloodlust on a biblical level, conflating Palestinians and now Lebanese with "Amalek", a people that the ancient hebrew god charged them to exterminate to the last child. That goes a long way in explaining the incredible savagery and disproportional response to the attack of October 7.

In the past, nearly all US presidents restrained that Israeli impulse for violence. Notably, Reagan put a stop to the Israeli bombing campaign of Lebanese cities:

Biden is a walking dead, and Blinken is on board with the current slaughter, as is Trump. This represents a significant departure from previous US policy of restraining Israel, whose supporters here love to portray as victims.
Yes it is definitely the Israelis and not the Palestinians or radical jihadist Shias who are out for bloodlust and revenge. Hamas and Hezbollah are totally rational peace seeking groups with a deep respect for human rights.

That is true, the Israelis have been conducting a large-scale massacre in Gaza, bombing everything in sight indiscriminately. They are deliberately starving that population and systematically creating the conditions for the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians, according to the Lancet and other independent western sources. That is a fact.

As to Hezbollah, here is another fact:



Neither Hezbollah nor Iran wants war with Israel, Bibi and his bunch on the other hand have been doing their best to provoke it, with the goal of dragging the US into a massive escalation in the Mideast.


Quote:
If the Palestinians were not consumed with revenge and a totally unworkable right of return, they'd have a state now.

This is another lie, it is very clear that Nethanyahu has scuttled every attempt at a viable 2-state solution. The only Israeli PM who genuinely worked towards that was Itzak Rabin, and he was offed by the very same people who are running Israel today, religious extremists like Itamar Ben-Gvir, who celebrated the burning to death of a Palestinian baby, and Bezalel Smotrich - that guy in the bottom:




Virtually none of this is true. But even if it is it all emanates from Hamas and Hezbollah attacking on 10/7 and 10/8. FAFO as they say.

And LMAO at Hezbollah and Iran not wanting war. Of course they don't want a hot war where they'd lose. They'd much rather engage in terrorist attacks and low grade actions. Why would Israel - or any other rational actor - agree to those rules of (non)engagement. Hamas and Hezbollah miscalculated and provoked Israel into fighting a full scale war. Again, FAFO.

You have not addressed the key fact I mentioned above. Hezbollah started firing missiles on 10/8 - the day after the 10/7 Hamas massacre and BEFORE Israel had mounted any response. To repeat - Hezbollah attacked Israel before Israel invaded Gaza or engaged in heavy bombing and then continued firing missiles ever since. That is an act of war - Israel did not attack Lebanon. You are completely twisted if you think that Israel's actions at this point are not justified (i.e., fighting back in a war that Hezbollah started).

And your analysis of the two state solution (or lack thereof) suggests you think Bibi has been the only prime minister of Israel. He has not and prior prime ministers (Olmert/Barak) made definitive two state offers that were rejected by Arafat because: (i) he was a coward; and (ii) the Palestinians insisted on right of return formulations that were not workable. And then Arafat started the intifada which created Bibi. As saying goes, the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

If you really cared about the Palestinians or the Lebanese (which I don't think you do), you'd be rooting for Hamas and Hezbollah to be defeated so that those peoples could improve their lives and eventually have independent states that live in peace with Israel and their other neighbors.

I'll ask you this - simple question. Would it be better for Palestinians and Lebanese if Hamas and Hezbollah no longer had weapons or political power? I'll wait.
Reply Quote
4
2 edits
tequila4kapp
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to BearGoggles • 9:23a, 10/1/24
Excellent post.

It is so tiresome having to respond to the lunacy but it is so important to keep doing so.

Of course Hezbollah attacked Israel first, did so before Israel entered Gaza and did so for nearly a year before Israel officially responded. There is no other nation on the face of the earth that would be expected to show so much restraint. Wonder why Israel is expected to play by different rules...

Re 2 state solution, show us any Palestinian entity with some power who acknowledges Israel's right to exist. The inherent contradiction of 2 state solution and 1 side believing the other should be removed from the face of the earth is amazingly lost on some people.

I will answer your question: Yes, of course it would be better if Hamas and Hezbollah were not armed and/or had no political power. It would be even better if they did not exist. We would have a 2 state solution and Palestinians would have more autonomy and freedom. (the anti-semites and anti-zionists will retort they only exist because of the Zionist Jews, not their perverted world view)
Reply Quote
5
2 edits
Zippergate
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:40a, 10/1/24
They say a picture says a thousand words

Reply Quote
2
tequila4kapp
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Zippergate • 11:05a, 10/1/24
Zippergate said:
They say a picture says a thousand words

"Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps said this latest barrage of missiles is in retaliation for the killing of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah in Beirut, Lebanon, in an Israeli airstrike late last week and the killing of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran in July, according to Fox News Chief Foreign Correspondent Trey Yingst."

Doesn't Iran formally deny arming H and H?
What right do they have to retaliate for state action against these non-Iranian actors?
Reply Quote
6
oski003
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Zippergate • 12:07p, 10/1/24
Zippergate said:
They say a picture says a thousand words



They are shooting down the Iranian missiles Biden paid for.
Reply Quote
3
bear2034
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:48p, 10/1/24

Wasn't this the same one word message Kamala gave to migrants crossing the southern border?
Reply Quote
4
bear2034
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to oski003 • 1:20p, 10/1/24
oski003 said:
Zippergate said:
They say a picture says a thousand words
They are shooting down the Iranian missiles Biden paid for.
Reply Quote
4
bearister
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:38p, 10/1/24
Israel's Lebanon ground raid stirs U.S. fears over past Mideast wars


https://www.axios.com/2024/10/01/israel-lebanon-hezbollah-middle-east-wars
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Reply Quote
1
tequila4kapp
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Abandon Harris • 3:04p, 10/1/24
Abandon Harris said:

This gentleman's statement that he and 57 other Muslim representatives can guarantee the safety and security of Israel is curious, as that effectively means confronting Iran and its proxies head on over this issue.

Still, I find it encouraging to see any open discussion of recognizing Israel (piggy backing on the Arab Peace Initiative).
Reply Quote
3
Cal88
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to tequila4kapp • 3:32p, 10/1/24
Israel doesn't recognize Palestine. "from the river to the sea" is enshrined in the Likudnik platform for decades, Netanyahu and co have scuttled any attempt at a 2-state solution, Oslo included.

Quote:
The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. Likud Party Platform, 1977
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/
Reply Quote
2
1 edit
cbbass1
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to cbbass1 • 3:32p, 10/1/24
cbbass1 said:
oski003 said:
bearister said:
20,000 Palestinians dead. A million facing starvation. Is there a line in this war? Has it been crossed? If not, when will it be crossed? Is it a case of no line at all?
Your thoughts?


Has Hamas asked for peace? Are they willing to return the hostages and stop attacking Israel?
Don't Hamas & the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves, especially from indiscriminate bombing and the intentional attacks on civilians?

If you don't think that Hamas and the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves -- but the Israelis DO -- what makes that OK?

Official U.S. policy, and worldwide consensus, is that a 2-state solution is the only sustainable path to long-term peace in Israel.

But Bibi Netanyahu proudly proclaims that there will be no Palestinian State. In fact, he admits that he's dedicated himself to making sure that there is NO Palestinian State. He's promised that he's the ONLY one who can guarantee that a 2-state solution will NOT happen.

If there's no 1-state solution, AND no 2-state solution, the only alternative is genocide & ethnic cleansing.

Don't listen to what Netanyahu and the Likud/Zionists say to U.S. news agencies, in English. Listen to what they're saying for domestic distribution, in Hebrew:
'I Am For War Crimes': Israelis Say Quiet Part Out Loud

When people tell you exactly who they are, believe them.
[url=https://youtu.be/yMY4ZaoflNc][/url]

IF We (the U.S.) don't force Israel to stop killing innocent civilians -- by withholding $$$ and weapons -- we'll soon find ourselves in WW3.

Then I have to ask: "How're ya gonna pay for that?"

Israel's miscalculation: Israel is losing the U.S.


I just wanted to bring this back as a reminder of where our discussion was at back in January, 2024.

Have we passed the point of No Return on WW3?

How many young (18-30) Americans, a majority of whom are strongly against Israel's genocide, are going to volunteer to fight on behalf of war criminal Netanyahu?

And then, what? A draft??

And when Israel responds to today's attack, expect >$10/gallon at the pump when Iran closes the Straits of Hormuz.

Just before the election.

Idiots!
Reply Quote
2
cbbass1
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
4:05p, 10/1/24
Fair assessment of Iran's attack on Israel:

Col. Larry Wilkerson: Iran's Attack on Israel - Israel about to Attack Iran


So much for the antiquated Iron Dome. Most got through.
Reply Quote
2
dimitrig
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
4:18p, 10/1/24

There is no military solution for Israel.

The sooner they recognize this the better.

They will not be able to bomb their way out of their problems. Their population is too small relative to their enemies and they are surrounded by them.


Reply Quote
3
tequila4kapp
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Cal88 • 4:43p, 10/1/24
Cal88 said:
Israel doesn't recognize Palestine. "from the river to the sea" is enshrined in the Likudnik platform for decades, Netanyahu and co have scuttled any attempt at a 2-state solution, Oslo included.

Quote:
The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. Likud Party Platform, 1977
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/
As if it matters, I disagree with him/them on that.
Reply Quote
4
cbbass1
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to tequila4kapp • 5:41p, 10/1/24
tequila4kapp said:
Cal88 said:
Israel doesn't recognize Palestine. "from the river to the sea" is enshrined in the Likudnik platform for decades, Netanyahu and co have scuttled any attempt at a 2-state solution, Oslo included.

Quote:
The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. Likud Party Platform, 1977
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/
As if it matters, I disagree with him/them on that.
It matters.
Reply Quote
1
Cal88
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
6:25p, 10/1/24
100%.
Reply Quote
CaliforniaEternal
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:16p, 10/1/24
The people of Israel will triumph over this unimaginable evil. Inbar Segev z"l was among the victims in Yafo today, killed by terrorists while holding her baby.

Reply Quote
5
bearister
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:55a, 10/2/24
Israel plans massive Iran payback with Middle East on edge


https://www.axios.com/2024/10/02/iran-israel-missile-attacks-response
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Reply Quote
tequila4kapp
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to bearister • 10:27a, 10/2/24
As they should.

Bush was right over 20 years ago to identify Iran as being in the Axis of Evil. That nation is the origin of virtually all security risks to Israel. They just fired hundred of missiles at Israel. They armed Hezbollah, enabling them to fire thousands of missiles from the north for over a year. An anticipated military response probably wouldn't even be newsworthy if it were any other country.
Reply Quote
6
BearGoggles
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to tequila4kapp • 6:52p, 10/2/24
tequila4kapp said:
As they should.

Bush was right over 20 years ago to identify Iran as being in the Axis of Evil. That nation is the origin of virtually all security risks to Israel. They just fired hundred of missiles at Israel. They armed Hezbollah, enabling them to fire thousands of missiles from the north for over a year. An anticipated military response probably wouldn't even be newsworthy if it were any other country.
At the time, Israel (behind he scenes) was not in favor of the invasion of Iraq. Israel correctly viewed Iran as the bigger threat and were proven correct.

Reply Quote
2
Cal88
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to BearGoggles • 7:31p, 10/2/24
BearGoggles said:
tequila4kapp said:
As they should.

Bush was right over 20 years ago to identify Iran as being in the Axis of Evil. That nation is the origin of virtually all security risks to Israel. They just fired hundred of missiles at Israel. They armed Hezbollah, enabling them to fire thousands of missiles from the north for over a year. An anticipated military response probably wouldn't even be newsworthy if it were any other country.
At the time, Israel (behind he scenes) was not in favor of the invasion of Iraq. Israel correctly viewed Iran as the bigger threat and were proven correct.

Absolutely false, Israel and its close neocon relays in DC and in the Pentagon were the chief instigators of the Iraqi invasion. The real goal was not to bring democracy to Iraq, but to destroy its potential and break up that country.

Israel wanted to "do" Iran next, and it just may get its wish now, by of course using American blood and treasure, just like they did in Iraq.
Reply Quote
2
bearister
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:48a, 10/4/24
…..and a lot of people have been saying' that all Bibi has to promise is development rights for some beachfront properties in Gaza and Beirut:

Democrats suspect Netanyahu attempting to tilt election toward Trump


https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4914933-netanyahu-gaza-hezbollah-interference/
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Reply Quote
1 edit
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.