The Non-Yogi Israel-Palestine war thread

436,677 Views | 3378 Replies | Last: 54 min ago by Anarchistbear
bear2034
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sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:


This is wrong and stupid. They picked the wrong person this time. It won't be able to be hid under the rug.

This film also hasn't been able to find an American distributor, despite winning an Oscar. It's only been seen where it's been sold directly to independent theaters. No streaming deal either.

I don't know why Israelis have such power to suppress media here, but this is a pretty clear example.
I have no idea what happened but when you click on the original tweet and see the comments there are multiple responses that tell a different side of the story. How do you know what's true?

sycasey
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bear2034 said:

sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:


This is wrong and stupid. They picked the wrong person this time. It won't be able to be hid under the rug.

This film also hasn't been able to find an American distributor, despite winning an Oscar. It's only been seen where it's been sold directly to independent theaters. No streaming deal either.

I don't know why Israelis have such power to suppress media here, but this is a pretty clear example.
I have no idea what happened but when you click on the original tweet and see the comments there are multiple responses that tell a different side of the story. How do you know what's true?


I would say to look closely at the claims from the IDF here. They say that "Palestinians" were throwing rocks and that the altercation escalated into a fight. That's believable, though I'm not sure how they know who started the fight first if they showed up after it had already started. What they don't say is that Ballal himself ever attacked anyone (just that he was "on the scene"). If not, and if they don't have evidence he did, this is still bad. Why arrest an injured man if he wasn't doing anything?

I will grant that it's still possible that Ballal did engage in violence here, but based on the statements from both sides and how no one really alleges it, I'm thinking he probably did not. If some harder evidence emerges to prove that he did then I reserve the right to change my assumption.
Cal88
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Ballal was just released from IDF captivity, probably saved by his celebrity. I guess we will find out his side of the story soon.
Cal88
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This is what they do to Palestinian doctors.

Cal88
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Cal88
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CaliforniaEternal
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sycasey
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Cal88 said:

Ballal was just released from IDF captivity, probably saved by his celebrity. I guess we will find out his side of the story soon.
Here's his story:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/26/i-thought-i-was-going-to-die-director-hamdan-ballal-recounts-attack-by-settlers-in-west-bank

I went to see the film yesterday (it's playing at independent theaters around S.F. and Oakland). It's very well-made and powerful. If you see it, you'll see no hint of anti-semitism or support for terrorism as some of its opponents might claim. You will, however, see documentary evidence that makes the idea that Ballal was attacked for making the film highly plausible. People can argue about Gaza, because Hamas did actually launch an attack from there so some Israeli response is to be expected. What's happening in the West Bank has been indefensible for a while.
CaliforniaEternal
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How dare Israel have any kind of security in Judea and Samaria. Your Hamas friends aren't any different in Jenin and Tulkarm than in Gaza.
tequila4kapp
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Cal88 said:



Has Hamas agreed to give up power? Lay down its arms? Did they know there would be violence if they refused? Recognized Israel's right to exist? We know the answers. Hamas is getting exactly what it wants: Israel to continue fighting, Palestinian civilians to be killed and certain people to continue only seeing these events through the lens of Israel is evil.

Note the recent reports of Palestinian protests against Hamas - virtually unheard of until very recently for fear of torture, imprisonment and death.

See also Bill Clinton's retelling of Arafat's refusal to accept the peace deal - land to include 94% of the west bank, a Palestinian capital in east Jerusalam, 4% of Israel and all of Gaza. The Palestinians would not accept even that deal and here we are today. To paraphrase BC: You cannot say No to once in a lifetime peace opportunities then complain when doors to peace close.

sycasey
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CaliforniaEternal said:

How dare Israel have any kind of security in Judea and Samaria. Your Hamas friends aren't any different in Jenin and Tulkarm than in Gaza.
Yeah, this is always the argument isn't it? Say you are against some Israeli abuse of power and the response is, "So you love Hamas?"

No. Go see the film.
tequila4kapp
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sycasey said:

CaliforniaEternal said:

How dare Israel have any kind of security in Judea and Samaria. Your Hamas friends aren't any different in Jenin and Tulkarm than in Gaza.
Yeah, this is always the argument isn't it? Say you are against some Israeli abuse of power and the response is, "So you love Hamas?"

No. Go see the film.
Whereas Gaza is "easy" the West Bank is F'd up. Israel should have annexed the entire thing after winning it in a war but they wouldn't likely because they couldn't incorporate the large Palestinian population and remain a long term Jewish state. Post the Arafat (?) peace deals we are left with a hodge-podge of intermixed lands...then the settlements. Ugh.
sycasey
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tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:

CaliforniaEternal said:

How dare Israel have any kind of security in Judea and Samaria. Your Hamas friends aren't any different in Jenin and Tulkarm than in Gaza.
Yeah, this is always the argument isn't it? Say you are against some Israeli abuse of power and the response is, "So you love Hamas?"

No. Go see the film.
Whereas Gaza is "easy" the West Bank is F'd up. Israel should have annexed the entire thing after winning it in a war but they wouldn't likely because they couldn't incorporate the large Palestinian population and remain a long term Jewish state. Post the Arafat (?) peace deals we are left with a hodge-podge of intermixed lands...then the settlements. Ugh.

I don't think Gaza is "easy," but otherwise yeah the West Bank is a huge mess and the only answer seems to be "more Israeli settlements to push out the Palestinians." It's not tenable.

Arafat should have taken that deal in the 90s, but now we are where we are.
tequila4kapp
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sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:

CaliforniaEternal said:

How dare Israel have any kind of security in Judea and Samaria. Your Hamas friends aren't any different in Jenin and Tulkarm than in Gaza.
Yeah, this is always the argument isn't it? Say you are against some Israeli abuse of power and the response is, "So you love Hamas?"

No. Go see the film.
Whereas Gaza is "easy" the West Bank is F'd up. Israel should have annexed the entire thing after winning it in a war but they wouldn't likely because they couldn't incorporate the large Palestinian population and remain a long term Jewish state. Post the Arafat (?) peace deals we are left with a hodge-podge of intermixed lands...then the settlements. Ugh.

I don't think Gaza is "easy," but otherwise yeah the West Bank is a huge mess and the only answer seems to be "more Israeli settlements to push out the Palestinians." It's not tenable.

Arafat should have taken that deal in the 90s, but now we are where we are.
Relatively speaking, I think it is. Israel accepts Palestinian's right to posses Gaza exclusively and to self govern. Those facts are evidenced by actions. Israel needs a neighbor that accepts their right to exist, doesn't have a platform objective of exterminating Jews and stops firing missiles at them.
smh
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Quote:

> Relatively speaking, I think it is. Israel accepts Palestinian's right to posses Gaza exclusively and to self govern. Those facts are evidenced by actions. Israel needs a neighbor that accepts their right to exist, doesn't have a platform objective of exterminating Jews and stops firing missiles at them
first few paragraphs are worth a look see..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
executive summary: genocide.. baad
tequila4kapp
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smh said:

Quote:

> Relatively speaking, I think it is. Israel accepts Palestinian's right to posses Gaza exclusively and to self govern. Those facts are evidenced by actions. Israel needs a neighbor that accepts their right to exist, doesn't have a platform objective of exterminating Jews and stops firing missiles at them
first few paragraphs are worth a look see..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
executive summary: genocide.. baad
I reject out of hand all characterizations of genocide in Gaza or Israel.

Executive Summary: if Israel was actually perpetrating a genocide Palestinians wouldn't exist.
sycasey
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tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:

CaliforniaEternal said:

How dare Israel have any kind of security in Judea and Samaria. Your Hamas friends aren't any different in Jenin and Tulkarm than in Gaza.
Yeah, this is always the argument isn't it? Say you are against some Israeli abuse of power and the response is, "So you love Hamas?"

No. Go see the film.
Whereas Gaza is "easy" the West Bank is F'd up. Israel should have annexed the entire thing after winning it in a war but they wouldn't likely because they couldn't incorporate the large Palestinian population and remain a long term Jewish state. Post the Arafat (?) peace deals we are left with a hodge-podge of intermixed lands...then the settlements. Ugh.

I don't think Gaza is "easy," but otherwise yeah the West Bank is a huge mess and the only answer seems to be "more Israeli settlements to push out the Palestinians." It's not tenable.

Arafat should have taken that deal in the 90s, but now we are where we are.
Relatively speaking, I think it is. Israel accepts Palestinian's right to posses Gaza exclusively and to self govern. Those facts are evidenced by actions. Israel needs a neighbor that accepts their right to exist, doesn't have a platform objective of exterminating Jews and stops firing missiles at them.
The questionable thing is whether or not the military/bombing campaign needs to continue in Gaza. Is this really accomplishing anything?

Also, IMO the West Bank situation only continues to feed extremism in Gaza.
Cal88
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tequila4kapp said:

smh said:

Quote:

> Relatively speaking, I think it is. Israel accepts Palestinian's right to posses Gaza exclusively and to self govern. Those facts are evidenced by actions. Israel needs a neighbor that accepts their right to exist, doesn't have a platform objective of exterminating Jews and stops firing missiles at them
first few paragraphs are worth a look see..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
executive summary: genocide.. baad
I reject our of hand all characterizations of genocide in Gaza or Israel.

Executive Summary: if Israel was actually perpetrating a genocide Palestinians wouldn't exist.


Israel is killing as many Palestinians as they can get away with, they have already culled around 10% of Gazans in a year and a half, through carpet bombing, the targeting of their infrastructure including healthcare and starvation. This is a country that drops 2,000lb bombs on civilian tent camps housing refugees. Their goal is to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank, their leaders have not been shy about this.

Israel has never offered a viable 2-state solution, they came close when Rabin was their PM, but since his assassination, there has never been a genuine attempt and the goal has always been Greater Israel.
bearister
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tequila4kapp said:



Executive Summary: if Israel was actually perpetrating a genocide Palestinians wouldn't exist.


I thought that was already the case in your world.


*I never thought any religious zealot could tell as many lies unflinchingly as his daughter did, until Karolyn Leavitt reported for duty.
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CaliforniaEternal
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sycasey said:

CaliforniaEternal said:

How dare Israel have any kind of security in Judea and Samaria. Your Hamas friends aren't any different in Jenin and Tulkarm than in Gaza.
Yeah, this is always the argument isn't it? Say you are against some Israeli abuse of power and the response is, "So you love Hamas?"

No. Go see the film.
The opposite end of failing to take proper security actions is letting Hamas operate freely and carry out attacks, so there isn't much of a middle road. In a perfect world, there wouldn't need to be heavy security measures, but since Palestinian society is dedicated to destroying Israel that will never be possible.
sycasey
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CaliforniaEternal said:

sycasey said:

CaliforniaEternal said:

How dare Israel have any kind of security in Judea and Samaria. Your Hamas friends aren't any different in Jenin and Tulkarm than in Gaza.
Yeah, this is always the argument isn't it? Say you are against some Israeli abuse of power and the response is, "So you love Hamas?"

No. Go see the film.
The opposite end of failing to take proper security actions is letting Hamas operate freely and carry out attacks, so there isn't much of a middle road. In a perfect world, there wouldn't need to be heavy security measures, but since Palestinian society is dedicated to destroying Israel that will never be possible.
You know we're talking about the West Bank and not Gaza here, right?
tequila4kapp
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Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

smh said:

Quote:

> Relatively speaking, I think it is. Israel accepts Palestinian's right to posses Gaza exclusively and to self govern. Those facts are evidenced by actions. Israel needs a neighbor that accepts their right to exist, doesn't have a platform objective of exterminating Jews and stops firing missiles at them
first few paragraphs are worth a look see..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
executive summary: genocide.. baad
I reject our of hand all characterizations of genocide in Gaza or Israel.

Executive Summary: if Israel was actually perpetrating a genocide Palestinians wouldn't exist.


Israel is killing as many Palestinians as they can get away with, they have already culled around 10% of Gazans in a year and a half, through carpet bombing, the targeting of their infrastructure including healthcare and starvation. This is a country that drops 2,000lb bombs on civilian tent camps housing refugees. Their goal is to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank, their leaders have not been shy about this.

Israel has never offered a viable 2-state solution, they came close when Rabin was their PM, but since his assassination, there has never been a genuine attempt and the goal has always been Greater Israel.
If it was a real genocide 100% of Palestinians would be dead within a week.
Cal88
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tequila4kapp said:

Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

smh said:

Quote:

> Relatively speaking, I think it is. Israel accepts Palestinian's right to posses Gaza exclusively and to self govern. Those facts are evidenced by actions. Israel needs a neighbor that accepts their right to exist, doesn't have a platform objective of exterminating Jews and stops firing missiles at them
first few paragraphs are worth a look see..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
executive summary: genocide.. baad
I reject our of hand all characterizations of genocide in Gaza or Israel.

Executive Summary: if Israel was actually perpetrating a genocide Palestinians wouldn't exist.


Israel is killing as many Palestinians as they can get away with, they have already culled around 10% of Gazans in a year and a half, through carpet bombing, the targeting of their infrastructure including healthcare and starvation. This is a country that drops 2,000lb bombs on civilian tent camps housing refugees. Their goal is to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank, their leaders have not been shy about this.

Israel has never offered a viable 2-state solution, they came close when Rabin was their PM, but since his assassination, there has never been a genuine attempt and the goal has always been Greater Israel.
If it was a real genocide 100% of Palestinians would be dead within a week.

Pol Pot: "I killed 25% of Cambodians in 5 years!"

Tequilla4kapp: "That's not a real genocide!!!"
Cal88
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tequila4kapp
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Cal88 said:


Pol Pot: "I killed 25% of Cambodians in 5 years!"

Tequilla4kapp: "That's not a real genocide!!!"
Nice Try. Cambodia's population is disbursed through a jungle-laden country. Gaza is 31 times smaller than Cambodia, barren and surrounded on all sides (ie no place to hide or escape).
Cal88
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tequila4kapp said:

Cal88 said:


Pol Pot: "I killed 25% of Cambodians in 5 years!"

Tequilla4kapp: "That's not a real genocide!!!"
Nice Try. Cambodia's population is disbursed through a jungle-laden country. Gaza is 31 times smaller than Cambodia, barren and surrounded on all sides (ie no place to hide or escape).

What a ridiculous statement, as if 75% of Cambodian civilians managed to hide in the jungles for 5 years away from an army whose specialty was jungle guerilla warfare.

Only a complete fool could argue with a straight face that there was no genocide in Cambodia because the great majority of their population was not killed.
Cal88
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15 Palestinian paramedics executed by the Israeli army earlier this week. They literally covered up their deed by burying these 15 bodies underground inside their ambulance.

Those killings of health workers, journalists etc have happened every week, but what makes this event remarkable is that it was captured on video retrieved from one of the paramedics' phone. Once again the Israelis were caught lying, as the footage directly contradicts their narrative that the medics were combattants in unmarked vehicles



Anarchistbear
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Jews murder aid workers.

Who will be the first to tell us Hamas embeds children and aid workers on top of military targets ?
tequila4kapp
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https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2025/04/07/gazans-chant-hamas-is-terrorist-organization-protests-rock-strip-third-consecutive-week/

Gazans Chant 'Hamas Is a Terrorist Organization' as Protests Rock Strip for Third Consecutive Week


Hundreds of Palestinians in northern Gaza rallied against Hamas for the third consecutive week, according to local reports, chanting slogans labeling the group a "terrorist organization" and demanding an end to its rule.

In the Jabaliya area of northern Gaza, hundreds of demonstrators gathered on Sunday to protest the leadership of Hamas, echoing similar calls made over the past two weekends. Videos shared online show residents chanting, "The message is clear: Hamas is garbage," and "Hamas is a terrorist organization."

Hamas is a designated terrorist organization by the United States, EU, and Israel.

The Iran-backed terror group, which seized control of Gaza in 2007, responded by attempting to suppress the growing unrest. According to Palestinian sources, operatives from the group reportedly executed protesters involved in the rallies.

Following the recent torture and murder of Odai al-Rabei, a young Gazan targeted for protesting the terrorist group, Gaza residents were seen chanting against Hamas in public.

The 22-year-old Gazan was reportedly abducted, tortured, and murdered by Hamas's al-Qassam Brigades for his participation in anti-Hamas protests, according to statements from his family, who condemned the terrorist group as a "sinful, rogue" faction.

The victim's family issued a scathing video statement, blaming members of the military wing of Hamas for torturing Rabei with "hard tools" and dragging his body before returning it to the family home.

The matter comes as the IDF expands its military campaign and as Gazans continue to demonstrate throughout the coastal enclave carrying white flags and chanting anti-Hamas slogans.

The scenes have marked some of the largest and most open protests against the terrorist organization since the start of the war with Israel in October 2023.

Historically, Hamas has responded to anti-government protests with swift and often violent crackdowns. These latest protests, however, signal growing desperation among ordinary Gazans, many of whom now appear willing to speak out despite the risks.

sycasey
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Anarchistbear
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The boomer die off can't happen soon enough
BearGoggles
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Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

smh said:

Quote:

> Relatively speaking, I think it is. Israel accepts Palestinian's right to posses Gaza exclusively and to self govern. Those facts are evidenced by actions. Israel needs a neighbor that accepts their right to exist, doesn't have a platform objective of exterminating Jews and stops firing missiles at them
first few paragraphs are worth a look see..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
executive summary: genocide.. baad
I reject our of hand all characterizations of genocide in Gaza or Israel.

Executive Summary: if Israel was actually perpetrating a genocide Palestinians wouldn't exist.


Israel is killing as many Palestinians as they can get away with, they have already culled around 10% of Gazans in a year and a half, through carpet bombing, the targeting of their infrastructure including healthcare and starvation. This is a country that drops 2,000lb bombs on civilian tent camps housing refugees. Their goal is to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank, their leaders have not been shy about this.

Israel has never offered a viable 2-state solution, they came close when Rabin was their PM, but since his assassination, there has never been a genuine attempt and the goal has always been Greater Israel.
There are over 2,000,000 people in Gaza. No where near 200,000 (10%) have been culled. You're just making crap up, as usual.

Israel has participated in the peace process and made many 2 state proposals. That is a fact. There have been multiple genuine attempts.

How many proposals has Hamas made which create a viable 2 state solution? How many genuine attempts from Hamas and how many peace conferences have they participated in? I'll wait.
BearGoggles
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sycasey said:

tequila4kapp said:

sycasey said:


This is wrong and stupid. They picked the wrong person this time. It won't be able to be hid under the rug.

This film also hasn't been able to find an American distributor, despite winning an Oscar. It's only been seen where it's been sold directly to independent theaters. No streaming deal either.

I don't know why Israelis have such power to suppress media here, but this is a pretty clear example.
This is not only false, but an antisemitic trope. Congratulations on finally revealing your bigotry.

And remarkably, you managed to see the film so apparently it was not suppressed despite your conspiracy theory about the Jews errrrrr "Israelis". Imagine that.

There is a film called October 8 which addresses the rise of antisemitism after 10/7 - a pro-Isreali errr Jewish viewpoint. It too struggled to find a distributor because it turns out . . . distributors and major movie chains don't want the headache of showing these films. That is in no small part because of the violent Hamas supporting mobs attracted to such events. It has nothing to do with the "Israelis" and your cockamamie antisemitic conspiracy theory. If the Jews errr "Israelis" controlled the media, how did the film win an Oscar?

You should go see October 8 - the quoted post really suggests you'd benefit from it.
Cal88
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In BearGoggles' universe, AIPAC is an antisemitic trope.

Perhaps these goggles need some adjustment.
Cal88
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BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

tequila4kapp said:

smh said:

Quote:

> Relatively speaking, I think it is. Israel accepts Palestinian's right to posses Gaza exclusively and to self govern. Those facts are evidenced by actions. Israel needs a neighbor that accepts their right to exist, doesn't have a platform objective of exterminating Jews and stops firing missiles at them
first few paragraphs are worth a look see..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
executive summary: genocide.. baad
I reject our of hand all characterizations of genocide in Gaza or Israel.

Executive Summary: if Israel was actually perpetrating a genocide Palestinians wouldn't exist.


Israel is killing as many Palestinians as they can get away with, they have already culled around 10% of Gazans in a year and a half, through carpet bombing, the targeting of their infrastructure including healthcare and starvation. This is a country that drops 2,000lb bombs on civilian tent camps housing refugees. Their goal is to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank, their leaders have not been shy about this.

Israel has never offered a viable 2-state solution, they came close when Rabin was their PM, but since his assassination, there has never been a genuine attempt and the goal has always been Greater Israel.
There are over 2,000,000 people in Gaza. No where near 200,000 (10%) have been culled. You're just making crap up, as usual.





Quote:

Israel has participated in the peace process and made many 2 state proposals. That is a fact. There have been multiple genuine attempts.

How many proposals has Hamas made which create a viable 2 state solution? How many genuine attempts from Hamas and how many peace conferences have they participated in? I'll wait.

Hamas wouldn't even exist if it weren't for Israel's constant bombing and siege of Gaza, and suppression of Palestinian moderates, policies which predates the current ongoing genocide. As well Israel provided covert support of Hamas, which gives them the cover to ethnically cleanse Gaza.



Itzak Rabin did try to put together a genuine 2-state solution, 30 years ago, full credit to him, and the Israeli radicals, who have been in power for decades now, assassinated him for this. Even a hardcore zionist like you will admit that Netanyahu never wanted a 2-state solution with the Palestinians, and has been conducting a long-standing ethnic cleansing campaign with Greater Israel as his goal. This lebensraum project BTW extends well beyond all of Palestine, and includes plans to annex territory in Syria, Lebanon and eventually Jordan, all these projects funded by the US taxpayers.
 
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