bear2034 said:

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VIvek never mentioned anything about race, only "American culture".

And it still holds true that the left can't meme.

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He doesn't have to it's Implied...that is one of the ways covert racism works

bear2034 said:

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VIvek never mentioned anything about race, only "American culture".

And it still holds true that the left can't meme.

---

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=covert+racism+definitions&oq=covert+racism+defi#d=gs_qabs&t=1735436214093&u=%23p%3DGRLhli77g0UJ

"Barbara trepagnier a decade ago, most white americans believed that racism was no longer a problem in the United States, that racism disappeared when legal segregation was abolished with the civil rights legislation of the 1960s (Blauner 1994). today, the claim that racism is a thing of the past continues to have a strong hold on the white american psyche. indeed, conservative writers like to point out that racism has declined precipitously since the mid-1960s and that people today are treated equally (see Thernstrom & Thernstrom 2003; mcWhorter 2006). This view, however, is shortsighted in that it considers only blatant expressions of racism, and it presumes equal treatment for people who do not share equal footing. This view ignores the gap between black and white life chances that still stands, a gap that results largely from covert forms of racism, some of which is performed by well-meaning white people. The thinking expressed in this chapter extends to all racial and ethnic minority groups; however, because the research was limited to racism against african americans, references are limited to that group. This chapter has three threads. The first reveals the presence of silent racismthe negative thoughts, images, and assumptions about african americansthat exists in the minds of well-meaning white people who see themselves, and would be seen by other white people, as "not racist"(trepagnier 2006: 3).evidence of silent racism forces us to question the commonsense, categorical thinking used to think about racism today, namely, that people are either racist or not racist. The second thread shows how passivity in well-meaning white people works with silent racism in the production of institutional racism. together, silent racism and passivity maintain the racial and ethnic inequality that persists in the US despite laws intended to lessen it. and finally, the third thread in this chapter illustrates that increasing race awareness in well meaning white people, a topic generally overlooked by race theorists, is more important than trying to eliminate racism. together these three threads construct a new way of thinking about racism in the 21st century."

The George Floyd and Ahmad Arbery type incidents, which came in a wave, along with the overt idiocy of MAGA movement, showed me what subconscious bias is, and that racism is definitely not a thing if the past.

I think a lot of people were similarly affected.

Traffic stop data.
The tale of black parents teaching their kids to simply put both hands on the steering wheel, comply, move slowly and speak respectfully….. these things were new to us (from my perspective).

concordtom said:

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The George Floyd and Ahmad Arbery type incidents, which came in a wave, along with the overt idiocy of MAGA movement, showed me what subconscious bias is, and that racism is definitely not a thing if the past.

I think a lot of people were similarly affected.

Traffic stop data.
The tale of black parents teaching their kids to simply put both hands on the steering wheel, comply, move slowly and speak respectfully….. these things were new to us (from my perspective).

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All parents should teach their kids to comply with police officers, move slowly, and speak respectfully. Why is this a tale of black parents?

going4roses said:

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Spoken from a place of white privilege. As usual. But I get it nothing is wrong because things are peachy keen for you.

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I have only been handcuffed once, after falsely being suspected of theft (wrong place, wrong time, but the circumstances were suspicious). I complied and was released after about an hour of questioning. Prior to backup arriving, I was on the ground on my chest with my hands handcuffed behind my back for about 20 minutes. At what point was nothing wrong, things were peachy keen, and I was privileged?

oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

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The George Floyd and Ahmad Arbery type incidents, which came in a wave, along with the overt idiocy of MAGA movement, showed me what subconscious bias is, and that racism is definitely not a thing if the past.

I think a lot of people were similarly affected.

Traffic stop data.
The tale of black parents teaching their kids to simply put both hands on the steering wheel, comply, move slowly and speak respectfully….. these things were new to us (from my perspective).

---

All parents should teach their kids to comply with police officers, move slowly, and speak respectfully. Why is this a tale of black parents?

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All should. Agreed.

There is a particular focus on minorities doing so because they tend to be treated more poorly at a much higher rate than whites.

in many cases, it's not their fault. It's the fault of subconscious bias on the part of the officers. And that is not necessarily their fault. It's the fault of a culture which has many convoluted aspects emanating from an era which was extremely, flat-out, racist. So, we whites don't have to feel like we are being impugned - no need to get defensive. Blame it on a past we had nothing to do with. But take where we're at and work to make tomorrow better.

Now, I imagine you'll dispute that, but whatever.

concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

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The George Floyd and Ahmad Arbery type incidents, which came in a wave, along with the overt idiocy of MAGA movement, showed me what subconscious bias is, and that racism is definitely not a thing if the past.

I think a lot of people were similarly affected.

Traffic stop data.
The tale of black parents teaching their kids to simply put both hands on the steering wheel, comply, move slowly and speak respectfully….. these things were new to us (from my perspective).

---

All parents should teach their kids to comply with police officers, move slowly, and speak respectfully. Why is this a tale of black parents?

---

All should. Agreed.

There is a particular focus on minorities doing so because they tend to be treated more poorly at a much higher rate than whites.

in many cases, it's not their fault. It's the fault of subconscious bias on the part of the officers. And that is not necessarily their fault. It's the fault of a culture which has many convoluted aspects emanating from an era which was extremely, flat-out, racist. So, we whites don't have to feel like we are being impugned - no need to get defensive. Blame it on a past we had nothing to do with. But take where we're at and work to make tomorrow better.

Now, I imagine you'll dispute that, but whatever.

---

When I see videos of bad things happening, 95% of the time the suspect is not complying with police officers, moving slowly, and speaking respectfully. Why are you shifting the fault to the unconscious bias of the part of the officers?

oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

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The George Floyd and Ahmad Arbery type incidents, which came in a wave, along with the overt idiocy of MAGA movement, showed me what subconscious bias is, and that racism is definitely not a thing if the past.

I think a lot of people were similarly affected.

Traffic stop data.
The tale of black parents teaching their kids to simply put both hands on the steering wheel, comply, move slowly and speak respectfully….. these things were new to us (from my perspective).

---

All parents should teach their kids to comply with police officers, move slowly, and speak respectfully. Why is this a tale of black parents?

---

All should. Agreed.

There is a particular focus on minorities doing so because they tend to be treated more poorly at a much higher rate than whites.

in many cases, it's not their fault. It's the fault of subconscious bias on the part of the officers. And that is not necessarily their fault. It's the fault of a culture which has many convoluted aspects emanating from an era which was extremely, flat-out, racist. So, we whites don't have to feel like we are being impugned - no need to get defensive. Blame it on a past we had nothing to do with. But take where we're at and work to make tomorrow better.

Now, I imagine you'll dispute that, but whatever.

---

When I see videos of bad things happening, 95% of the time the suspect is not complying with police officers, moving slowly, and speaking respectfully. Why are you shifting the fault to the unconscious bias of the part of the officers?

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Because I observed, listened, learned, and grew to a new understanding.

concordtom said:

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oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

---

oski003 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

The George Floyd and Ahmad Arbery type incidents, which came in a wave, along with the overt idiocy of MAGA movement, showed me what subconscious bias is, and that racism is definitely not a thing if the past.

I think a lot of people were similarly affected.

Traffic stop data.
The tale of black parents teaching their kids to simply put both hands on the steering wheel, comply, move slowly and speak respectfully….. these things were new to us (from my perspective).

---

All parents should teach their kids to comply with police officers, move slowly, and speak respectfully. Why is this a tale of black parents?

---

All should. Agreed.

There is a particular focus on minorities doing so because they tend to be treated more poorly at a much higher rate than whites.

in many cases, it's not their fault. It's the fault of subconscious bias on the part of the officers. And that is not necessarily their fault. It's the fault of a culture which has many convoluted aspects emanating from an era which was extremely, flat-out, racist. So, we whites don't have to feel like we are being impugned - no need to get defensive. Blame it on a past we had nothing to do with. But take where we're at and work to make tomorrow better.

Now, I imagine you'll dispute that, but whatever.

---

When I see videos of bad things happening, 95% of the time the suspect is not complying with police officers, moving slowly, and speaking respectfully. Why are you shifting the fault to the unconscious bias of the part of the officers?

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Because I observed, listened, learned, and grew to a new understanding.

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You have a victim mentality.

Now, I imagine you'll dispute that, but whatever.

going4roses said:

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bear2034 said:

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VIvek never mentioned anything about race, only "American culture".

And it still holds true that the left can't meme.

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What MAGA says vs what they mean:

"The American people," = White

"Suburban Moms," = White

"Patriots," = White

"Working people," = White

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What going4roses says vs what he means

White people are racist = I blame white people for all my problems.

going4roses said:

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bear2034 said:

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VIvek never mentioned anything about race, only "American culture".

And it still holds true that the left can't meme.

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He doesn't have to it's Implied...that is one of the ways covert racism works

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Covert racism against white people? You don't even think that exists.

sycasey said:

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bear2034 said:

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VIvek never mentioned anything about race, only "American culture".

And it still holds true that the left can't meme.

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That's true, he only said America sucks, not white people.

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A Democrat would say it was a poor choice of words. They would say America is racist.

going4roses said:

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Spoken from a place of white privilege. As usual. But I get it nothing is wrong because things are peachy keen for you.

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So, how many times have you been handcuffed?

82gradDLSdad said:

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concordtom said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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I can't find my old Vivek Ramaswamy post so sorry for my new one.

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Maybe in this thread

https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/110689/65

Or this one?

https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/118237/replies/2267809#2267809

Or this one

https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/114668/replies/2203925#2203925

Or this one

https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/116408

You spoke on Vivek in all 4 threads. Multiple pages in the first two.

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Thanks. Sorry if I bothered you. I was looking for the one where I first brought up his name and couldn't find it.

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Well, I suppose you have forgiven me my 5000 posts declaring

And

sycasey said:

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bear2034 said:

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sycasey said:

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bear2034 said:

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VIvek never mentioned anything about race, only "American culture".

And it still holds true that the left can't meme.

---

That's true, he only said America sucks, not white people.

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A Democrat would say it was a poor choice of words. They would say America is racist.

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Yes, but let's focus on why Vivek thinks America sucks. It's because we're too lazy, unlike Asians.

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Lazy and racist?

bear2034 said:

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sycasey said:

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bear2034 said:

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sycasey said:

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bear2034 said:

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VIvek never mentioned anything about race, only "American culture".

And it still holds true that the left can't meme.

---

That's true, he only said America sucks, not white people.

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A Democrat would say it was a poor choice of words. They would say America is racist.

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Yes, but let's focus on why Vivek thinks America sucks. It's because we're too lazy, unlike Asians.

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Lazy and racist?

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I don't think that's what Vivek said, but if you think so then let's go with it.

Putting the H-1B visa debate aside and focusing on Vivek's tweet alone, he said "our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long (at least since the 90s and likely longer)." Some on the right who took offense to that perceived it to be an attack on not just Americans but on white Americans and that Vivek was comparing them to Asian immigrants or Indians in particular. Based on other things Vivek has said or didn't say, I don't think what he tweeted was directed towards white America but I can see how others perceive it that way.

bear2034 said:

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Putting the H-1B visa debate aside and focusing on Vivek's tweet alone, he said "our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long (at least since the 90s and likely longer)." Some on the right who took offense to that perceived it to be an attack on not just Americans but on white Americans and that Vivek was comparing them to Asian immigrants or Indians in particular. Based on other things Vivek has said or didn't say, I don't think what he tweeted was directed towards white America but I can see how others perceive it that way.

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Hey, I think that was actually a thoughtful, cogent argument that addressed the question at hand! I knew you had it in you, bear2034!

Let's look at the message again:

The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn’t because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if…

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) December 26, 2024

The opening talks about tech companies hiring foreign-born workers, and in practice who do you think that is? It's primarily Asians, and Indians in particular. Not sure who else it would be. I guarantee you those companies are not hiring a disproportionate number of engineers from Africa or Latin America or Europe. On the other end, he is probably broadly talking about "American" culture being deficient and not specifically white people, but given that America is still about 75% white that would seem to be falling mostly on them. Besides Steve Urkel, the American cultural products he named (Boy Meets World, Saved by the Bell, Friends) are mostly about and produced by white Americans. The comparison is indirect, but even a little bit of inference will get you there.

Moreover, I think his analysis is pretty short-sighted and wrong. Part of the reason those immigrants want to come from Asia to America is because of the greater opportunity to grow and prosper, and that opportunity exists in part BECAUSE of the diversity of scientific and cultural output that comes from the USA. That is not happening with a population that carries single-minded focus on getting a high-paying STEM job. America also did plenty of venerating jocks and prom queens well before the 90s, including during the post-WW2 period when it became the economic and scientific powerhouse of the world. Why wasn't this a problem then?

Finally, talking about how all you Americans just need to work harder and give up your leisure activities is a sure political loser and not going to play well with the MAGA base that supported Trump. It's a bizarre argument for Vivek to make if he wants to actually win people over and accomplish policy goals.

The visa argument has nothing to do with culture or immigrants. It is about keeping wages down.

Both from my standpoint