DiabloWags said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

Absolutely. My dream wasn't to live in West Pittsburg (Bay Point for you newbies) after having grown up in SF.

---

You mean Gun Point?

---

The rename to Bay Point definitely backfired. I was ok with West Pittsburg even though my inlaws were horrified I'd move their daughter and young grandkids there. It's actually been a fine place to build a home.

oski003 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

concordtom said:

---

82gradDLSdad said:

---

I am the opposite of a frat guy. I've never been inside one and had basically zero friends at Cal. I lived at home in SF and commuted for five years. Hanging out with people and liking them or being friends with them are different things in my mind. I can find someone fun to hang out with and then leave them and think, "What a large *******". I have some acquaintances like that. The amount of good qualities they have are varied. Make no mistake, I think Trump is a bad person and has the history to prove it. I hope he can do some of the things he's promised in the next four years but I wouldn't bet on it. Kamala...I have no idea. I don't know if she'd be like some of my Dem friends: insufferable with regards to politics (and most other things) or more understanding of my opinions. I just have no feeling about her. Obama, for example, always seemed like an interesting guy. I would love to hang out with him. And some may consider him a big con man. Just feelings.

---

Do you think bad person will depart the scene with a functioning democracy - not that we had a very good one to begin with (see: gerrymandering, campaign finance law enforcement, citizens vs united, dark money, and the historical 97% incumbent re-election success rate).

---

Yes

---

It's almost a laughable proposition for me at this point.

Here's what's going to happen:
The chaos candidate is going to be a chaos president once again, and this time it won't take a crazy pandemic to reveal his insane governance (bleach?).

The chaos president is going to figure out some way (as yet undetermined) to stay in power. Elections are not going to happen in the normal way in 2028. He simply is not going to depart the scene gracefully into retirement for some newbie to undo all his wayward policy implementation.


I guess OT is going to have to stay open for 4 more years so we can tune in to see who is right!

---

Trump never mentioned anything like using bleach to kill covid. That was a lie told by Biden and echoed by a biased media. You fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

---

Oh, yes he (Trump) did!

April 23, 2020. Following a presentation about disinfectants' ability to kill the virus on surfaces, Trump speculated about using them inside the body.

Here's a link to what was actually said so you can do a word search for the word "bleach" and why don't you go ahead and do that and tell me if I fell for any hook, line, or sinker.

https://www.rev.com/transcripts/donald-trump-coronavirus-press-conference-transcript-april-23#:~:text=

I'll explain, so other readers don't have to dissect:

The word bleach was mentioned 3x:
Twice by Bill Baker, Trump's Acting Under Secretary for Science and Technology at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS):

Quote:

---

For example, increasing the temperature and humidity of potentially contaminated indoor spaces appears to reduce the stability of the virus, and extra care may be warranted for dry environments that do not have exposure to solar light. We're also testing disinfectants readily available. We've tested bleach, we've tested isopropyl alcohol on the virus specifically in saliva or in respiratory fluids and I can tell you that bleach will kill the virus in five minutes. Isopropyl alcohol will kill the virus in 30 seconds and that's with no manipulation, no rubbing. Just bring it on and leaving it go. You rub it and it goes away even faster. We're also looking at other disinfectants, specifically looking at the COVID-19 virus in saliva.

---

Then Trump followed and mused openly with the press, and Live to the nation (I recall watching this Live), as if he was brainstorming solutions, or having a classroom session with his teachers, then and there:

Quote:

---

A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you're totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn't been checked, but you're going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that too. Sounds interesting, right? And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it'd be interesting to check that so that you're going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we'll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That's pretty powerful.

---

Then, a member of the press, Jim (Acosta, CNN), used the word "bleach", misappropriating Bryan's use of it to Trump. However, Bryan included bleach as one of the disinfectants that kills the virus on a solid surface (per cleaning rooms and objects), and then Trump, per the above quote, was musing about "disinfectants inside the body."

Here is Jim's question:

Quote:

---

" The president mentioned the idea of a cleaner, bleach and isopropyl alcohol emerging. There's no scenario where that could be injected into a person, is there? "

---

Bryan responded to this question by countering Trump's false musing, while trying to not obviously "face" him:

Quote:

---

No, I'm here to talk about the finds that we had in the study. We don't do that within that lab at our labs.

---

After reviewing the press briefing text, why don't you do your own research and explain to me how "Biden" told this "bleach" lie which was echoed by the media.

You didn't even bother reading the press conference exchanges, did you?

I highlighted and explained all of it.

concordtom said:

---

You didn't even bother reading the press conference exchanges, did you?

I highlighted and explained all of it.

---

I read them. You'd have to be a deranged anti-Trump lunatic to come to your conclusion against all the available evidence.

Let's back up.

I said: (bleach?)

You said, trump never said bleach.

I brought forth the exchange.

You're now saying I said "Trump said 'drink bleach'".

This is why you are placed on Ignore.

concordtom said:

---

Let's back up.

I said: (bleach?)

You said, trump never said bleach.

I brought forth the exchange.

You're now saying I said "Trump said 'drink bleach'".

This is why you are placed on Ignore.

---

Care to clarify what you actually mean with this comment,

"The chaos candidate is going to be a chaos president once again, and this time it won't take a crazy pandemic to reveal his insane governance (bleach?)"

It sounds like you are completely walking it back because you have no point here now. You used bleach as an example of his insane governance when it truly should be an example of Democrats insane exaggeration of his governance and how you fell for their lies hook, line, and sinker. I feel bad that you can't see this objectively. It is all right in front of you. You can place me on ignore if it makes you feel better.

oski003 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

Let's back up.

I said: (bleach?)

You said, trump never said bleach.

I brought forth the exchange.

You're now saying I said "Trump said 'drink bleach'".

This is why you are placed on Ignore.

---

Care to clarify what you actually mean with this comment,

"The chaos candidate is going to be a chaos president once again, and this time it won't take a crazy pandemic to reveal his insane governance (bleach?)"

It sounds like you are completely walking it back because you have no point here now. You used bleach as an example of his insane governance when it truly should be an example of Democrats insane exaggeration of his governance and how you fell for their lies hook, line, and sinker. I feel bad that you can't see this objectively. It is all right in front of you. You can place me on ignore if it makes you feel better.

---

Dude!
Don't be so (fill in the blank).

His insane governance was that he held a press conference which ended with open questions of "did he just suggest or muse like a child asking his advisors that disinfectants like bleach could be injected into the body like some sort of countertop cleaning method?"

That was not the serious, educated, informed and trustworthy governance the nation deserves.

You want to parse words, but I know it, you know it, and everyone knows that Donald Trump is a mess of a human being. His second administration is going to be far worse than his first, no pandemic necessary. Tanks will be rolling.

See you in 4 years.



This ain't no Lafayette Square photo op.

concordtom said:

---

going4roses said:

---

Harlem in the 90-92
Houston in the early 2000's

---

Houston is cheap.
You could live there.
But it sucks, so you don't.

Hey, I couldn't afford the house I wanted in the bay (5 kids) in the school districts I preferred. So, supply and demand, I left. I live 1:45 minutes away.

Rent control… it's economically a loser.

Communities certainly change, and it sucks to get priced out. But society doesn't owe people the right. It's a competitive world and that's what propels us forward.

---

Riding around Houston seeing nooses hanging from rear view mirrors let me know at some point it's going to be a problem

tequila4kapp said:

---

concordtom said:

---

[
Here's what's going to happen:
***
The chaos president is going to figure out some way (as yet undetermined) to stay in power. Elections are not going to happen in the normal way in 2028. He simply is not going to depart the scene gracefully into retirement for some newbie to undo all his wayward policy implementation.

---

Believing things like this or concentration camps, etc…. It may be time for less Axios, Politico, Left Wing X tweets and MSNBC and time for more walks in the park with a loved one appreciating the fall colors.

---

Convenient that CA just voted not to ban indentured servitude of incarcerated individuals. https://t.co/0oUNuLXEWp

— Erin C. Sanders, MSN, WHNP-BC (She/Her) (@ErinSandersNP) November 17, 2024

going4roses said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

concordtom said:

---

[
Here's what's going to happen:
***
The chaos president is going to figure out some way (as yet undetermined) to stay in power. Elections are not going to happen in the normal way in 2028. He simply is not going to depart the scene gracefully into retirement for some newbie to undo all his wayward policy implementation.

---

Believing things like this or concentration camps, etc…. It may be time for less Axios, Politico, Left Wing X tweets and MSNBC and time for more walks in the park with a loved one appreciating the fall colors.

---

Convenient that CA just voted not to ban indentured servitude of incarcerated individuals. https://t.co/0oUNuLXEWp

— Erin C. Sanders, MSN, WHNP-BC (She/Her) (@ErinSandersNP) November 17, 2024

---

I had read an artcile saying that a lot of jailed people LIKE to do this work. It gets them out and feeling free and powerful.

It's not about the money.

How sway how ? So inmates being forced to work in private prisons is ok ? Do know what happens when the refuse to be a slave ?

Offensive? … you dont say , now imagine being a descendant of Chattel Slavery. Think it all the way through.

going4roses said:

---

How sway how ? So inmates being forced to work in private prisons is ok ? Do know what happens when the refuse to be a slave ?

---

I think what I read had explained that it was voluntary work, not forced. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what I read. It was a few years ago during the big fires.

Why don't you explain to me what you are conveying. If you have supporting documentation it might be a good idea to include a link or two.

going4roses said:

---

Offensive? … you dont say , now imagine being a descendant of Chattel Slavery. Think it all the way through.

---

I hear you.
As I've written many times here, I became a hobbyist genealogist 2 decades ago and thereafter studied a good amount of history as well. I've come to believe very strongly in the power of generational wealth, but don't confuse that term with money.

As James Hughes writes in his book Family Wealth, there are 3 types of wealth in a family:
1. People
2. Collective knowledge and skill
3. Money
And if you do not respect the first two, there will be none of the third passed down.
The institution of slavery destroyed the first two. It was tragic. It was horrific. It was a massive sin!

We are all very much the product of culture and there is no more important culture than that of one's family.

I'm incredibly sorry for you that you have suffered as a result of the terrible practice of slavery. I'm afraid I can only acknowledge it, and your pain.

Do you have any children of your own?

I'd rather have prisoners working than sitting on their rear end all day doing nothing. Prison isn't a vacation. You did something to get yourself there that effected the life and happiness of other people. Working is a pretty good use of their time. With the added benefit of being able to learn a trade. But yes, it should have some oversight to make sure they aren't being abused. But prisons should not be privately owned either. The state and feds should be running all prisons so that we know that oversight is being done. However saying that, congress has oversight of the pentagon and that's been going swimmingly lol.

MinotStateBeav said:

---

I'd rather have prisoners working than sitting on their rear end all day doing nothing. Prison isn't a vacation. You did something to get yourself there that effected the life and happiness of other people. Working is a pretty good use of their time. With the added benefit of being able to learn a trade.

---

As I mentioned before, I still think they should earn the minimum wage of the area they work in. Of course, the cost to imprison them should be deducted from their earnings.

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

I'd rather have prisoners working than sitting on their rear end all day doing nothing. Prison isn't a vacation. You did something to get yourself there that effected the life and happiness of other people. Working is a pretty good use of their time. With the added benefit of being able to learn a trade.

---

As I mentioned before, I still think they should earn the minimum wage of the area they work in. Of course, the cost to imprison them should be deducted from their earnings.

---

I am not decided on that issue. Do I want prisoners coming out of a decade of prison with 100k saved up? Not really. But on the other side, them having the ability to start over with a real chance isn't terrible either. Maybe we let them save up to 50k for every 10 years? This can be argued.

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

I'd rather have prisoners working than sitting on their rear end all day doing nothing. Prison isn't a vacation. You did something to get yourself there that effected the life and happiness of other people. Working is a pretty good use of their time. With the added benefit of being able to learn a trade.

---

As I mentioned before, I still think they should earn the minimum wage of the area they work in. Of course, the cost to imprison them should be deducted from their earnings.

---

I am not decided on that issue. Do I want prisoners coming out of a decade of prison with 100k saved up? Not really. But on the other side, them having the ability to start over with a real chance isn't terrible either. Maybe we let them save up to 50k for every 10 years? This can be argued.

---

If they earned it and paid off their incarceration, they should absolutely be able to save whatever is left, even if it is $250,000. They should even earn overtime, as far as I am concerned.

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

I'd rather have prisoners working than sitting on their rear end all day doing nothing. Prison isn't a vacation. You did something to get yourself there that effected the life and happiness of other people. Working is a pretty good use of their time. With the added benefit of being able to learn a trade.

---

As I mentioned before, I still think they should earn the minimum wage of the area they work in. Of course, the cost to imprison them should be deducted from their earnings.

---

I am not decided on that issue. Do I want prisoners coming out of a decade of prison with 100k saved up? Not really. But on the other side, them having the ability to start over with a real chance isn't terrible either. Maybe we let them save up to 50k for every 10 years? This can be argued.

---

If they earned it and paid off their incarceration, they should absolutely be able to save whatever is left, even if it is $250,000. They should even earn overtime, as far as I am concerned.

---

Ya, I'm not where you are on this issue lol. Prison is a punishment.

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

I'd rather have prisoners working than sitting on their rear end all day doing nothing. Prison isn't a vacation. You did something to get yourself there that effected the life and happiness of other people. Working is a pretty good use of their time. With the added benefit of being able to learn a trade.

---

As I mentioned before, I still think they should earn the minimum wage of the area they work in. Of course, the cost to imprison them should be deducted from their earnings.

---

I am not decided on that issue. Do I want prisoners coming out of a decade of prison with 100k saved up? Not really. But on the other side, them having the ability to start over with a real chance isn't terrible either. Maybe we let them save up to 50k for every 10 years? This can be argued.

---

If they earned it and paid off their incarceration, they should absolutely be able to save whatever is left, even if it is $250,000. They should even earn overtime, as far as I am concerned.

---

Ya, I'm not where you are on this issue lol. Prison is a punishment.

---

The punishment is that they lose the ability to make a choice. They aren't getting the opportunity for some illustrious career. This is manual labor paid at minimum wage. After they put in their 8 hours, they are confined in prison where they are being punished, rehabilitated, and kept from damaging society.

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

I'd rather have prisoners working than sitting on their rear end all day doing nothing. Prison isn't a vacation. You did something to get yourself there that effected the life and happiness of other people. Working is a pretty good use of their time. With the added benefit of being able to learn a trade.

---

As I mentioned before, I still think they should earn the minimum wage of the area they work in. Of course, the cost to imprison them should be deducted from their earnings.

---

I am not decided on that issue. Do I want prisoners coming out of a decade of prison with 100k saved up? Not really. But on the other side, them having the ability to start over with a real chance isn't terrible either. Maybe we let them save up to 50k for every 10 years? This can be argued.

---

If they earned it and paid off their incarceration, they should absolutely be able to save whatever is left, even if it is $250,000. They should even earn overtime, as far as I am concerned.

---

Ya, I'm not where you are on this issue lol. Prison is a punishment.

---

The punishment is that they lose the ability to make a choice. They aren't getting the opportunity for some illustrious career. This is manual labor paid at minimum wage. After they put in their 8 hours, they are confined in prison where they are being punished, rehabilitated, and kept from damaging society.

---

Ok being forced to live in prison is part of the punishment. The other part is the inconvenience of having some your rights being stripped away, at the expense of the state/fed. This is done to be a deterrent so that the convict doesn't wish to go thru that experience again.

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

I'd rather have prisoners working than sitting on their rear end all day doing nothing. Prison isn't a vacation. You did something to get yourself there that effected the life and happiness of other people. Working is a pretty good use of their time. With the added benefit of being able to learn a trade.

---

As I mentioned before, I still think they should earn the minimum wage of the area they work in. Of course, the cost to imprison them should be deducted from their earnings.

---

I am not decided on that issue. Do I want prisoners coming out of a decade of prison with 100k saved up? Not really. But on the other side, them having the ability to start over with a real chance isn't terrible either. Maybe we let them save up to 50k for every 10 years? This can be argued.

---

If they earned it and paid off their incarceration, they should absolutely be able to save whatever is left, even if it is $250,000. They should even earn overtime, as far as I am concerned.

---

Ya, I'm not where you are on this issue lol. Prison is a punishment.

---

The punishment is that they lose the ability to make a choice. They aren't getting the opportunity for some illustrious career. This is manual labor paid at minimum wage. After they put in their 8 hours, they are confined in prison where they are being punished, rehabilitated, and kept from damaging society.

---

Ok being forced to live in prison is part of the punishment. The other part is the inconvenience of having some your rights being stripped away, at the expense of the state/fed. This is done to be a deterrent so that the convict doesn't wish to go thru that experience again.

---

Should the system not also have a rehabilitative element? Working and making a wage that can be used if and when your term is up seems up that alley.

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

I'd rather have prisoners working than sitting on their rear end all day doing nothing. Prison isn't a vacation. You did something to get yourself there that effected the life and happiness of other people. Working is a pretty good use of their time. With the added benefit of being able to learn a trade.

---

As I mentioned before, I still think they should earn the minimum wage of the area they work in. Of course, the cost to imprison them should be deducted from their earnings.

---

I am not decided on that issue. Do I want prisoners coming out of a decade of prison with 100k saved up? Not really. But on the other side, them having the ability to start over with a real chance isn't terrible either. Maybe we let them save up to 50k for every 10 years? This can be argued.

---

If they earned it and paid off their incarceration, they should absolutely be able to save whatever is left, even if it is $250,000. They should even earn overtime, as far as I am concerned.

---

Ya, I'm not where you are on this issue lol. Prison is a punishment.

---

The punishment is that they lose the ability to make a choice. They aren't getting the opportunity for some illustrious career. This is manual labor paid at minimum wage. After they put in their 8 hours, they are confined in prison where they are being punished, rehabilitated, and kept from damaging society.

---

Ok being forced to live in prison is part of the punishment. The other part is the inconvenience of having some your rights being stripped away, at the expense of the state/fed. This is done to be a deterrent so that the convict doesn't wish to go thru that experience again.

---

Should the system not also have a rehabilitative element? Working and making a wage that can be used if and when your term is up seems up that alley.

---

I don't know if it should have a rehab element. Shouldn't the rehab be "don't come back here".

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

I'd rather have prisoners working than sitting on their rear end all day doing nothing. Prison isn't a vacation. You did something to get yourself there that effected the life and happiness of other people. Working is a pretty good use of their time. With the added benefit of being able to learn a trade.

---

As I mentioned before, I still think they should earn the minimum wage of the area they work in. Of course, the cost to imprison them should be deducted from their earnings.

---

I am not decided on that issue. Do I want prisoners coming out of a decade of prison with 100k saved up? Not really. But on the other side, them having the ability to start over with a real chance isn't terrible either. Maybe we let them save up to 50k for every 10 years? This can be argued.

---

If they earned it and paid off their incarceration, they should absolutely be able to save whatever is left, even if it is $250,000. They should even earn overtime, as far as I am concerned.

---

Ya, I'm not where you are on this issue lol. Prison is a punishment.

---

The punishment is that they lose the ability to make a choice. They aren't getting the opportunity for some illustrious career. This is manual labor paid at minimum wage. After they put in their 8 hours, they are confined in prison where they are being punished, rehabilitated, and kept from damaging society.

---

Ok being forced to live in prison is part of the punishment. The other part is the inconvenience of having some your rights being stripped away, at the expense of the state/fed. This is done to be a deterrent so that the convict doesn't wish to go thru that experience again.

---

Should the system not also have a rehabilitative element? Working and making a wage that can be used if and when your term is up seems up that alley.

---

I don't know if it should have a rehab element. Shouldn't the rehab be "don't come back here".

---

Not sure if that's working out so well for us.

Anarchistbear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

oski003 said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

I'd rather have prisoners working than sitting on their rear end all day doing nothing. Prison isn't a vacation. You did something to get yourself there that effected the life and happiness of other people. Working is a pretty good use of their time. With the added benefit of being able to learn a trade.

---

As I mentioned before, I still think they should earn the minimum wage of the area they work in. Of course, the cost to imprison them should be deducted from their earnings.

---

I am not decided on that issue. Do I want prisoners coming out of a decade of prison with 100k saved up? Not really. But on the other side, them having the ability to start over with a real chance isn't terrible either. Maybe we let them save up to 50k for every 10 years? This can be argued.

---

If they earned it and paid off their incarceration, they should absolutely be able to save whatever is left, even if it is $250,000. They should even earn overtime, as far as I am concerned.

---

Ya, I'm not where you are on this issue lol. Prison is a punishment.

---

The punishment is that they lose the ability to make a choice. They aren't getting the opportunity for some illustrious career. This is manual labor paid at minimum wage. After they put in their 8 hours, they are confined in prison where they are being punished, rehabilitated, and kept from damaging society.

---

Ok being forced to live in prison is part of the punishment. The other part is the inconvenience of having some your rights being stripped away, at the expense of the state/fed. This is done to be a deterrent so that the convict doesn't wish to go thru that experience again.

---

Should the system not also have a rehabilitative element? Working and making a wage that can be used if and when your term is up seems up that alley.

---

I don't know if it should have a rehab element. Shouldn't the rehab be "don't come back here".

---

No, it should be learn a skill so you don't come back here.

---

I'll start by saying this is sarcasm...So, do we want a prison system whereby down and outters purposely take a chance and commit felonies so they can get to prison to get shelter, food and learn a marketable skill? Sarcasm aside this all brings up interesting sociological questions, especially in a free, capitalist country. With AI coming we better learn how to deal with folks who feel like they have no choice but commit crimes. I know technology usually brings many, many new jobs while eliminating others but AI, in the distant future, may be just a job eliminator.

oski003 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

You didn't even bother reading the press conference exchanges, did you?

I highlighted and explained all of it.

---

I read them. You'd have to be a deranged anti-Trump lunatic to come to your conclusion against all the available evidence.

---

Trump said all of that drinking bleach s*** and more . . .

About the Proud Boys: "I tell them to stand down, stand by... and stand by me!"

About that white supremacist march in Virginia or wherever: "There are some fine people on both sides... it's just that the white racists are a little more fine!"

About the existence of the pee tape: "Maybe there is a pee tape and maybe there isn't, but I'm Putin's b**** for life just to make sure you'll never ever know!"

About contesting the election on January 6th: "You've gotta fight like hell. You've gotta go to the capitol now, break in, assault any law enforcement officers who try and stop you, find Mike Pence and hang him!"

And about the bleach: "I'm wondering... if somebody has COVID, maybe drinking a pint of Clorox bleach might cure them from the inside. Hey, maybe Hillary has COVID and we can find out!"


I don't know why anybody bothers to question these facts anymore, when everybody knows darn well that they're true.