A website has been created to Dox Tesla owners. The website reads as a wink-wink platform for committing violence. It recommends people visit a particular website - and links to the web site - before performing any "expressive art". The linked web site is an anarchist's guide to leaving no trace of evidence behind so you don't get caught.
This is extremely wrong and troubling and should be stopped, with people going to jail.
The people vandalizing Teslas don't seem themselves as patriots, they're vandalizing out of hate.
I'm surprised that you haven't used the word snowflake lately.
Isn't that what you were telling everyone during the campaign season when you were trying to "own" the libs? Just get over it and stop being a snowflake?
Are you trying to say people should get over their burned and vandalized cars?
The funny thing about the vandalism is that many liberals and registered Democrats also own Teslas.
Yes, Tesla owners should just get "over" it. If they don't like it, they can sell the car and buy something else after their insurance pays for the damage.
This is what happens when an antisemtic "genius" who has fathered 14 kids thru 4 different women goes to work.
"If burning Teslas make you furious, but watching thousands of federal workers get stripped of their jobs, healthcare, and pensions doesn't move youYOU are the problem. If scorched cars spark more outrage than billions being slashed from cancer research, humanitarian aid, education, and support for the most vulnerableyour moral compass is broken. This ain't about Teslas. It's about twisted priorities, cold-hearted politics, and willful ignorance. Silence in the face of suffering is complicity. Miss us with your fake outrage."
I missed the part where you tie the vandalism and violence into racism and chattel slavery.
Hold the phone who brought up racism ? Because if I mention Race/Racism im race baiting, I'm being this or that or I need to get over it ...
You are learning... outstanding job
How (are) you gonna win when you ain’t right within…
This guy just ran for Vice President of the United States 5 minutes ago and he's campaigning on killing the #7 largest company in the country. (soon to be the largest in the world)
Conservatives would never do this! Unless it's Disney. Or Budweiser. Or the NFL. Or . . .
This guy just ran for Vice President of the United States 5 minutes ago and he's campaigning on killing the #7 largest company in the country. (soon to be the largest in the world)
Conservatives would never do this! Unless it's Disney. Or Budweiser. Or the NFL. Or . . .
Yeah, I mean people were SHOOTING those cans of Bud Light!
I read that just now. I have a faster or more obvious way that Tesla dies: Musk dies, then TSLA follows. Not that I'm rooting for that to happen. I'm not. But I think his death would cause investors to panic sell big time!!
Name for me a stock that is more dependent upon one sole individual being alive to make it work. No, wait! I've got it: ticker DJT
My posts are based on the fact that the Chinese EVs are cheaper, as in, less expensive. I'm not going to be buying a $50,000 car. They are depreciating assets.
Largely true.
But with tariffs on imports of autos from Japan, South Korea, and Germany set to go into effect on April 2nd, I think that my German sportscar just went up 25% in value.
And of course, ICE is also being phased out with turbo, hybrid, and EV . . . even at Porsche given Euro7 regs. In fact, the mid-engined Cayman and Boxster will not have normally aspirated engines starting mid-year.
So a naturally aspirated (NA) sports car may just wind up holding "value" in this environment.
The marketplace alone is going to sideline ICE, especially at the high performance niche.
1,550 HP for $73,000, 0 to 60 in 1.98 seconds, faster than a high powered racer bike.
Even at a 100% tariff, they could sell a lot of these over here....
I read that just now. I have a faster or more obvious way that Tesla dies: Musk dies, then TSLA follows. Not that I'm rooting for that to happen. I'm not. But I think his death would cause investors to panic sell big time!!
Same a stock that is more dependent upon one sole individual being alive to make it work. No, wait! I've got it: ticker DJT
Yes, Musk dying is far more efficient than lighting random cars on fire which is just an indirect gesture that penalizes the innocent. Good idea.
My posts are based on the fact that the Chinese EVs are cheaper, as in, less expensive. I'm not going to be buying a $50,000 car. They are depreciating assets.
Largely true.
But with tariffs on imports of autos from Japan, South Korea, and Germany set to go into effect on April 2nd, I think that my German sportscar just went up 25% in value.
And of course, ICE is also being phased out with turbo, hybrid, and EV . . . even at Porsche given Euro7 regs. In fact, the mid-engined Cayman and Boxster will not have normally aspirated engines starting mid-year.
So a naturally aspirated (NA) sports car may just wind up holding "value" in this environment.
The marketplace alone is going to sideline ICE, especially at the high performance niche.
1,550 HP for $73,000, 0 to 60 in 1.98 seconds, faster than a high powered racer bike.
Even at a 100% tariff, they could sell a lot of these over here....
That's a great review. Dude is funny, and honest with his "this is too much" talk.
I liked the bit around 13:30 (+/-).
Municipalities are going to want them, in order to chase down speeders.
My opinion is that I do not want a car that goes 300 kph. What's the point of that when the speed limit is 70 mph and there's traffic to boot?
I'll take the $20k car and be happy.
Wifeisaturd should watch the video, because he was raving about teslas and seemed to think Chinese can't build **** . They CAN build ****, or at least, make passengers like Wife **** his pants on a hot lap in this thing.
I read that just now. I have a faster or more obvious way that Tesla dies: Musk dies, then TSLA follows. Not that I'm rooting for that to happen. I'm not. But I think his death would cause investors to panic sell big time!!
Same a stock that is more dependent upon one sole individual being alive to make it work. No, wait! I've got it: ticker DJT
Yes, Musk dying is far more efficient than lighting random cars on fire which is just an indirect gesture that penalizes the innocent. Good idea.
You didn't read the article. It doesn't propose TSLA death via vandalism.
This guy just ran for Vice President of the United States 5 minutes ago and he's campaigning on killing the #7 largest company in the country. (soon to be the largest in the world)
Conservatives would never do this! Unless it's Disney. Or Budweiser. Or the NFL. Or . . .
It's different when it's coming from a politician, especially one that could have been VP.
"If burning Teslas make you furious, but watching thousands of federal workers get stripped of their jobs, healthcare, and pensions doesn't move youYOU are the problem. If scorched cars spark more outrage than billions being slashed from cancer research, humanitarian aid, education, and support for the most vulnerable, your moral compass is broken. This ain't about Teslas. It's about twisted priorities, cold-hearted politics, and willful ignorance. Silence in the face of suffering is complicity. Miss us with your fake outrage."
Folks do get laid off. It is unfortunate, but the government is bloated and has a massive deficit. My understanding is these workers are getting large severance, much more than they would in the private sector. I am not aware of anyone being stripped of healthcare or pensions. The issues regarding humanitarian support, research, and education are fairly complex and those things are important.
Some are getting modest severance, up to $25,000 if they leave voluntarily. The early ones did get 6 months paid leave. Most are just getting an email saying they are being let go for "poor performance" or some other excuse that doesn't match up with their performance appraisals. They keep their healthcare but pay much more than when employed. I'm not sure the younger ones that aren't yet vested keep their retirement benefits aside from the TSP investing.
"If burning Teslas make you furious, but watching thousands of federal workers get stripped of their jobs, healthcare, and pensions doesn't move youYOU are the problem. If scorched cars spark more outrage than billions being slashed from cancer research, humanitarian aid, education, and support for the most vulnerable, your moral compass is broken. This ain't about Teslas. It's about twisted priorities, cold-hearted politics, and willful ignorance. Silence in the face of suffering is complicity. Miss us with your fake outrage."
Folks do get laid off. It is unfortunate, but the government is bloated and has a massive deficit. My understanding is these workers are getting large severance, much more than they would in the private sector. I am not aware of anyone being stripped of healthcare or pensions. The issues regarding humanitarian support, research, and education are fairly complex and those things are important.
Some are getting modest severance, up to $25,000 if they leave voluntarily. The early ones did get 6 months paid leave. Most are just getting an email saying they are being let go for "poor performance" or some other excuse that doesn't match up with their performance appraisals. They keep their healthcare but pay much more than when employed. I'm not sure the younger ones that aren't yet vested keep their retirement benefits aside from the TSP investing.
That's wrong to fire people for poor performance if they have good performance. I didn't know that was happening.
This guy just ran for Vice President of the United States 5 minutes ago and he's campaigning on killing the #7 largest company in the country. (soon to be the largest in the world)
Conservatives would never do this! Unless it's Disney. Or Budweiser. Or the NFL. Or . . .
They're not burning down Disneyland or smashing Bud Light bottles in stores.
"If burning Teslas make you furious, but watching thousands of federal workers get stripped of their jobs, healthcare, and pensions doesn't move youYOU are the problem. If scorched cars spark more outrage than billions being slashed from cancer research, humanitarian aid, education, and support for the most vulnerable, your moral compass is broken. This ain't about Teslas. It's about twisted priorities, cold-hearted politics, and willful ignorance. Silence in the face of suffering is complicity. Miss us with your fake outrage."
Folks do get laid off. It is unfortunate, but the government is bloated and has a massive deficit. My understanding is these workers are getting large severance, much more than they would in the private sector. I am not aware of anyone being stripped of healthcare or pensions. The issues regarding humanitarian support, research, and education are fairly complex and those things are important.
Some are getting modest severance, up to $25,000 if they leave voluntarily. The early ones did get 6 months paid leave. Most are just getting an email saying they are being let go for "poor performance" or some other excuse that doesn't match up with their performance appraisals. They keep their healthcare but pay much more than when employed. I'm not sure the younger ones that aren't yet vested keep their retirement benefits aside from the TSP investing.
That's wrong to fire people for poor performance if they have good performance. I didn't know that was happening.
Despite whatever excuse DOGE used, they were really let go because DOGE wanted a body count exiting government employment and didn't matter how good or bad their job skills were. Grok said to can them and they were canned unless it became embarrassing or a judge intervened.
Go to Reddit and read through r/fednews and you'll find plenty of people let go despite a good record. At least that was the case a few weeks ago. I think it's eased up recently.
This guy just ran for Vice President of the United States 5 minutes ago and he's campaigning on killing the #7 largest company in the country. (soon to be the largest in the world)
Conservatives would never do this! Unless it's Disney. Or Budweiser. Or the NFL. Or . . .
It's different when it's coming from a politician, especially one that could have been VP.
It has been 295 days since Bud Light sent Dylan Mulvaney one single can with her face on it, prompting Florida Governor Ron DeSantis to announce an investigation into the company, and DeSantis just ended his once-promising presidential campaign quoting a Budweiser ad. pic.twitter.com/bIRIyUYVA1
Something more for you to chew on, as you said Chinese companies benefit from unfair support. I suspect this article covers all the carbon credit monies that Tesla has received.
Hmmm. Well, that article addressed ALL Musk's government contracts. So I googled to find an article. This Reddit user explained it. You can do your own research for reputable numbers and maybe prove the assertion wrong.
His entire fortune depends on a financial loophole: selling carbon credits to gas-powered automakers so they can avoid emissions fines. Tesla made nearly $3 billion from these deals last year alone. But if those credits dry up, Tesla is toastand that's exactly what's happening.
Tesla's sales are collapsing in Europe, and that puts Musk in a chokehold. If Tesla doesn't sell enough cars, it doesn't generate enough carbon credits to sell. No credits = no easy money. At the same time, competitors like Volkswagen, Hyundai, and BYD are pumping out affordable EVs, so automakers don't need Tesla's credits as muchor at all. And with new EU regulations tightening in 2025, this whole scheme is about to implode.
Every lost sale weakens his grip on the carbon credit market. Every new EV from another brand makes Tesla more irrelevant. Musk didn't build an untouchable empirehe built a house of cards propped up by government handouts and corporate loopholes. And now, it's collapsing right in front of us.
Tom, you seem to have conflated me with Presidents Biden and Trump regarding blocking Chinese imports through high tariffs due to their perceptions of unfair subsidy practices. I didn't provide opinions on the fairness. Whatever your point may be is unclear. If you think Presidents Biden and Trump acted unfairly, you seem to be with the minority of voters.
What I did say is that the BTD has terrible margins and let me add, may not be selling many vehicles for a profit without Chinese subsidies, which you didn't seem to dispute. Not surprisingly, investors like Buffet don't like companies with lousy margins and those subsidies likely will have to go away for the Chinese to sell in the US. At some point you and '88 have to come to grips with the fact that:
[ol]
EVs are still expensive to produce and generate lower (or negative) margins, that are propped up by government intervention through subsidies, tax credits (and in the case of Tesla sale of carbon credits) and policies against other technologies. But the margins continue to be crap, and at least in the US and some other countries, the government intervention seems on the wane. Wonder if invitable EV adoption rates suffer? I think investors think so.
High costs + High interest Rates + lowered (from pandemic highs) used car values means it is more expensive to buy an EV than it was a while ago. Gas often is cheaper now, another factor into the calculus of car buying. Auto makers that make both ICE and EVs are slowing down planned EV production changes.
NACS transition announcements and delays have convinced customers that even if they want an EV, it may be better to wait a couple years if not buying a Tesla. The other problem is that
EV growth is slowing (that doesn't mean they aren't still selling or more slowing growing in number, but you guys keep overselling. Cox Automotive and other name auto names and predicting pure iCE cars will make-up 75% plus so of the market and EVs will be JUST at 10% of the 2025 market. The investment community is not buying what you are selling about inevitable technology change, etc. (see number 4). Indeed ICE and hybrid cars are becoming more fuel efficient and the latter seem to be getting a bigger percentage of the market. You keep underperforming, and the investment market doesn't support you.
There is a lot of production cost will go down with scale and technology change, and despite all the self-aggrandizement of those preaching this, the great cost decline still isn't happening. You know just because you keep repeating something is going to happen without really demonstrating why that is, doesn't mean it is happening. Propaganda aside, the market seems more focused on neither ICE nor EV tech, but self-driving tech.
[/ol] The fact that the Chinese don't invest in stocks of companies like the rest of the world, doesn't mean it makes sense to invest in companies with crappy margins, even if your Chinese. As investment in Chinese stocks is somewhere around the $12 Trillion mark, suggests to me that ecosystems or other new age verbiage aside, you and others should try a better argument. Tesla probably still has the highest price-to-earnings ratios ever recorded for a large cap company despite the latest swoon. It still sky high value certainly doesn't reflect its fading EV business. But it probably reflects the competitive advantage Tesla enjoys with its driver assisted technology, self-driving taxis, robo cars, and the like (none of which have entered the consumer market I might add) .
EVs are still expensive to produce and generate lower (or negative) margins
Why would that be? Because of the price of the battery, I presume. I'm going to find a chart on the declining price of batteries, and i challenge you to research trends in storage technology, r&d.
Storage of energy is THE #1 issue, is it not, because we now understand that wind and solar generation are cheaper than digging, refining, transporting hydrocarbons. This is not yesterday's lead acid.
I personally am intrigued by pumped hydro, though that admittedly does nothing for cars.
And I should ask, will lithium even be the EV battery technology of the future? We can't say.
My stepmother worked for Apple years before the Macintosh. We had early models in our home. Boy were those products crappy and expensive. I think the model T was crappy, too. When I went to college, i bought an external hard drive - as big as one of those old brick cell phones, 20 megabytes for $500.
Ask yourself, wife, where storage will be in the post ICE automotive era.
I dunno…. You're complaining about margins just like a US manufacturing worker complains about wages not keeping up with inflation - but I'm saying that's what happens in a competitive landscape. For US workers, they must compete with billions of workers abroad who will accept less, so not duh. Because containerized cargo shipping has happened. And for the domestic automakers, same concept. But you're not complaining about auto margins per se, you're complaining about ev margins. And again, to that I say, just wait, because the Macintosh is coming and it's going to be WAY better than the Apple IIe.
There's a battery technology that is going to similarly blow us all away. Or at least be way cheaper. We are just getting started with EVs. ….okay, now I'm going to read the rest of your post.
Look, you're far smarter than me. I don't understand why you are complaining of margins. If we sat with a beer or a sandwich, I'm sure we'd get along just fine! Thumbs up.
High costs + High interest Rates + lowered (from pandemic highs) used car values means it is more expensive to buy an EV than it was a while ago. Gas often is cheaper now, another factor into the calculus of car buying. Auto makers that make both ICE and EVs are slowing down planned EV production changes.
Wow. This seems incredibly shortsighted to me. Incredibly so. I'm not into nuclear, because I don't understand how new technologies are insulated from catastrophic disasters, but they could revolutionize energy production, as could fusion, eventually.
The world is going electric, buddy. You may not live to see it, but it's happening.
We exist in only a brief segment of history. Expanding your time horizons.
…I was at an investor conference in 2008 and there was some guy on stage telling us about his electric car. Boy, did I miss the boat in that one. I had no idea what little hobby project he was talking about.
NACS transition announcements and delays have convinced customers that even if they want an EV, it may be better to wait a couple years if not buying a Tesla. The other problem is that EV growth is slowing (that doesn't mean they aren't still selling or more slowing growing in number, but you guys keep overselling. Cox Automotive and other name auto names and predicting pure iCE cars will make-up 75% plus so of the market and EVs will be JUST at 10% of the 2025 market. The investment community is not buying what you are selling about inevitable technology change, etc. (see number 4). Indeed ICE and hybrid cars are becoming more fuel efficient and the latter seem to be getting a bigger percentage of the market. You keep underperforming, and the investment market doesn't support you.
There is a lot of production cost will go down with scale and technology change, and despite all the self-aggrandizement of those preaching this, the great cost decline still isn't happening. You know just because you keep repeating something is going to happen without really demonstrating why that is, doesn't mean it is happening. Propaganda aside, the market seems more focused on neither ICE nor EV tech, but self-driving tech.
It's good to separate out autodriving tech from drivetrain tech, but I don't know what you are talking about when you claim that costs haven't come down for electric vehicles. The first roadster was how much? And how much was the range? The graph is, well, per above. That's a nuts statement you made. What am I not understanding here?
The fact that the Chinese don't invest in stocks of companies like the rest of the world, doesn't mean it makes sense to invest in companies with crappy margins, even if your Chinese. As investment in Chinese stocks is somewhere around the $12 Trillion mark, suggests to me that ecosystems or other new age verbiage aside, you and others should try a better argument. Tesla probably still has the highest price-to-earnings ratios ever recorded for a large cap company despite the latest swoon. It still sky high value certainly doesn't reflect its fading EV business. But it probably reflects the competitive advantage Tesla enjoys with its driver assisted technology, self-driving taxis, robo cars, and the like (none of which have entered the consumer market I might add) .
While I do have some experience trading international equities, I have zero experience with the Chinese stock market. So, no further comment there. I do think it was a reasonable comment I made.
Yes, Tesla valuation is insanely high. I think that's reflective of both irrational exuberance AND the fact that we've never seen anyone like Elon Musk before. He's created multiple groundbreaking companies and has promised more. The vision of Optimus is not novel, but the fact that he's already made good on so much IS. Speculators have assigned him with King Midas status. I won't get into trying to assess where it/he/tesla stock price all goes. My comments have been focused on, I think, on the fact that Chinese make cheaper EVs that are often better in features. Don't take my word for it, listen to Ford ceo Farley.
And, as an investor, I think musk is really Fing up by getting involved with Trump. Like, it wasn't good enough to make a new electronic payment system, EVs, boring, SpaceX, starlink, flamethrowers, automated driving… now his brain wants to reengineer government. One word: Icarus.
There are some funny graphics out there, but yeah, I forgot crypto. He wants to control global finance is what that's about.
Here's the Icarus story, and what it all comes down to is Stay In Your Lane. Musk has successfully flown, but he's like Icarus, pushing the limits, and as any Greek tragedy seems doomed to fail, spectacularly.
He's messing with people's lives to an extent that is really very dangerous. He admits he is Asperger's and doesn't get people. That could get him.
Or, he's simply losing his focus. Too many balls in the air.
Or, Trump will simply crush him. Who knows. But it may not end well.
Double Booth. The company was worth around 1.5 trillion dollars and only $100 million was sold in planned stock sales? How does that compare to Amazon, per my post earlier in this thread and in the other thread when this same thing was posted?
Toyota's market cap is about $250 billion. Accounting for the fact that US markets are a lot more heavily financialized, a $350-$450 billion valuation for Tesla seems reasonable, so at the current valuation of $740 billion, there is a lot more room for further decline.
