It is silly comparing corporate and individual tax results. If those corporations paid low/no taxes it's because they had substantial deductions - likely business expenses (ie investments in their products/company that benefit our economy).

...

Cal88 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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calpoly said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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sycasey said:

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dajo9 said:

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Mamdani policies are wildly popular with the American people even if the young Muslim-American is not.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/poll-zohran-mamdanis-policies-are-popular-with-americans-outside-new-york--even-if-mamdani-is-not-162406841.html

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Left-populist messaging can work elsewhere, even if Mamdani specifically would not be the best messenger everywhere.

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Of course the Socialist messaging can be popular. Who doesn't like being told they can get everything for free, just have to tax the other guy more? The rubber meets the road on the execution of those policies.

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I think you just described capitalism. The large corporations don't pay takes, only the middle class and poor!

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I have come to expect this type of financial ignorance from you (from AI):

Overview of Income Tax Payers
Income taxes in the U.S. are paid by individuals and entities based on their earnings. The federal income tax system is progressive, meaning that higher earners pay a larger percentage of their income in taxes.
Who Pays the Most?
Income Brackets and Contributions
INCOME GROUP
AVERAGE TAX RATE
SHARE OF TOTAL INCOME TAXES PAIDTop 1%
26.1%
40.4%
Top 5%
23.1%
61.0%
Top 10%
21.1%
72.0%
Top 50%
15.9%
97.0%
Bottom 50%
3.7%
3.0%

The top 5% of earners paid over $1.3 trillion in income taxes in 2022, accounting for about 61% of the total.The top 10% contributed approximately 72% of the total income tax revenue.

Tax System Characteristics

• The federal income tax system is designed to be progressive, meaning that as income increases, the tax rate also increases.
• The lowest-income earners often pay little to no federal income tax due to refundable tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).

Conclusion
In summary, the majority of federal income taxes are paid by high-income earners, while lower-income individuals often benefit from tax credits that reduce their tax burden significantly.

As noted by Governor Newsom, the CA income tax structure is even more progressive.

The reason the top 1% pay less than you might expect is because they don't generate much taxable income (their wealth is tied-up in appreciated assets that produce little or no income, such as stock), and also much of their taxable income to the extent it exists, tends towards capital gains that receive preferential tax rates.

So after hearing all the *****es about Trump giving corporations tax breaks, imagine the disconnect when yet another liberal arts idiot says corporations pay no taxes. Why do you guys care about tax breaks if corporations pay no taxes in any event? I suppose a Cal grad could see the logic problem?

Again per AI:
In 2024, the U.S. federal government collected approximately $489.6 billion from corporate income taxes. This amount represents about 9% of total federal revenue.

This doesn't include the property, state, payroll and other taxes corporation pay.

You seem like the perfect Mamdani voter. Stupid is as stupid does.

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Two main problems with your analysis:

-Multinationals including GAFA and big oil use offshore schemes and loopholes put in place by regulatory capture to avoid taxes on their corporate incomes. That half a trillion total corporate income should be a lot higher.

Yes, confirmed via primary sources: Tesla paid $0 U.S. federal income tax on $2.3B income in 2024 due to deductions and losses. GE got a $423M refund on $7B profits in 2023 (2024 data similar per reports). Meta paid at 11.5% rate in 2023. FedEx, Nike, AirBnb, 3M often net $0…

— Grok (@grok) July 4, 2025

-The middle class has been largely shut out from the overall growth in income, which has gone to the top brackets the last several decades.

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You are missing the point. Overstating arguments with wild claims just underscores a lack of credibility and bias that leads to guys like Mamdami getting votes. Dude said no large corporations pay taxes. Dude said only middle and poor pay taxes. All of which is utter BS. His BS was accompanied by a lack of evidence or any context. Dude didn't say crap about growth in income. Dude didn't discuss specific tax situations where corporations reduce taxes like for example all those Bay Area tech companies bleeding earnings to places to tax havens like Switzerland through royalty payments to off shore affiliates that hold intellectual property rights (not just big mean oil companies).

It's nice that you want to assert new claims into the equation for deflection purposes. But the problem with propaganda from the left and the right these days is that people just make crap up which is so easy to spot, it deepens divisions, and basically is has people just thinking what they read is BS. It is eroding public trust in political institutions and the media. This can create a distorted perception of reality among voters, influencing their opinions and decisions based on falsehoods rather than facts. Why don't you just call the guy out, becuase he undermines the position of progressive on this board.

Cal88 said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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It is silly comparing corporate and individual tax results. If those corporations paid low/no taxes it's because they had substantial deductions - likely business expenses (ie investments in their products/company that benefit our economy).

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That reasoning is a bit circular - multinationals pay no taxes because they have substantial deductions. Well, yes, and do you think they don't have a hand in how these regulations are written?

A lot of it is because they locate their profit centers in tax havens, and herein lies the rub. They end up paying a lot less in corporate taxes than smaller domestic firms, which create most of the jobs.

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Dude said no corporations pay taxes. I assume you are trying to move the goal posts to discuss big multinationals, but your blanket comments are wrong, and you are obviously are not aware of what the tax law is for big multinationals these days.

Plenty of large corporations pay significant US taxes. Plenty of smaller businesses, especially those privately held don't pay taxes. But first let's look at the numbers on taxes paid which taxes percentage of book income paid in taxes (this is an approximation since tax books and GAAP books are different (but you knew that right when you tried to make your comparisons):

Effective Corporate Tax Rates for 342 Corporations by Industry, 2018-2022 (Five-Year Totals)
Industry
Profit (in millions)
Tax (in millions)
RateUtilities, gas and electric
$175,495
$200
0.1%
Oil, gas & pipelines
$39,333
$787
2.0%
Motor vehicles and parts
$41,059
$1,313
3.2%
Telecommunications
$351,618
$27,023
7.7%
Miscellaneous services
$224,628
$26,812
11.9%
Financial
$925,759
$120,165
13.0%
Semiconductors & other electronic components
$63,849
$8,401
13.2%
Food & beverages & tobacco
$109,405
$15,697
14.3%
Industrial Machinery
$72,065
$10,493
14.6%
Medical Products and Equipment
$23,753
$3,480
14.7%
Miscellaneous manufacturing
$185,774
$27,512
14.8%
Computers, Office Equipment
$161,325
$24,578
15.2%
Engineering & construction
$37,019
$5,702
15.4%
Transportation
$100,967
$15,618
15.5%
Aerospace & defense
$98,668
$15,570
15.8%
Electronics, electrical equipment
$2,250
$372
16.5%
Chemicals
$35,241
$5,831
16.5%
Household & personal products
$71,177
$11,917
16.7%
Metals & metal products
$43,466
$7,410
17.0%
Network and other communications equipment
$55,432
$9,703
17.5%
Financial data services
$116,183
$20,602
17.7%
Retail & wholesale trade
$481,041
$86,849
18.1%
Information Technology Services
$14,722
$2,658
18.1%
Computer software
$206,578
$38,847
18.8%
Internet Services & Retailing
$106,271
$20,501
19.3%
Health care
$160,059
$32,432
20.3%
Pharmaceuticals
$86,302
$22,218
25.7%
ALL INDUSTRIES
$3,989,440
$562,288
14.1%

So that is a lot of money being paid in just federal taxes by corporation notwithstanding CalPoly's BS assertions. And it doesn't take into account all the other non-federal and non-income tax paid. You would expect that the corporations would pay close to the effective tax rate of what was on average 21%.The tax subsidies received by corporations from 2018 through 2022 (meaning the difference between 21 percent of their profits and what they actually paid during this period) come to $275 billion. Just 25 corporations claimed $155 billion of those total tax breaks.

This is not because these corporations are violating tax laws, at least not as these laws are being interpreted and enforced today. Tax avoidance occurs because Congress chooses to allow it, either by enacting special exceptions and breaks from the regular tax rules, or by leaving in place loopholes that are clearly being exploited.
That raises the question about public policies decisions for tax deductions are considered "bad" depends on the perspective from which you evaluate them. Many tax deductions are implemented to encourage activities deemed beneficial for society. May liberal advocate actually argue that domestic corporate tax rates should be lowered to attract and retain domestic businesses and preventing profit shifting to lower-tax jurisdictions. Before the 2017 tax act, the United States had the highest combined statutory corporate tax rate among all OECD countries. And for both political parties,Lowering the tax burden through deductions frees up capital that businesses can reinvest in operations, innovation, expansion, and research and development. This can lead to targeted job creation and economic growth. So for the Dems, there often are deductions for locating business in poor areas, or using green technology or other pet projects, and now we will get to see the pet projects of the GOP.

The biggest thing I saw when practicing was dramatically offshore tax dodging by corporations, big and small. U.S. taxes corporations pay on their U.S. profits, not the worldwide taxes they pay on their worldwide profits, and that is reflected in the US Treasury numbers above. Even that has been partially purged by the 15% Corporate Alternative Minimum Tax (CAMT): This tax applies to large corporations, generally those with average annual adjusted financial statement income exceeding $1 billion, and it is calculated on their adjusted financial statement income (book income). The CAMT is imposed when the corporation's (and its affiliated groups) total worldwide taxes (including foreign taxes) are not less than 15% of its consolidated book profits. Most "western" countries have passed similar tax legislation. Sorry but details can be a *****.

Then there is what do small corparations pay? The effective rate is 17. 1% (How Much Do Small Businesses Pay in Taxes?", https://www.freshbooks.com/hub/accounting/how-much-do-small-businesses-pay-taxes (Aug. 2023). Not sure how they got these numbers, since the small corps typically don't disclose their financial publicly. I should also add most small businesses don't pay any taxes at the corporate level because they are S Corps, LLCs or other pass through entities, but you knew that to right? Do I need to show you numbers? This is why financially ignorant people vote for Mamdami.

Cal88 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Cal88 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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calpoly said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

Mamdani policies are wildly popular with the American people even if the young Muslim-American is not.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/poll-zohran-mamdanis-policies-are-popular-with-americans-outside-new-york--even-if-mamdani-is-not-162406841.html

---

Left-populist messaging can work elsewhere, even if Mamdani specifically would not be the best messenger everywhere.

---

Of course the Socialist messaging can be popular. Who doesn't like being told they can get everything for free, just have to tax the other guy more? The rubber meets the road on the execution of those policies.

---

I think you just described capitalism. The large corporations don't pay takes, only the middle class and poor!

---

I have come to expect this type of financial ignorance from you (from AI):

Overview of Income Tax Payers
Income taxes in the U.S. are paid by individuals and entities based on their earnings. The federal income tax system is progressive, meaning that higher earners pay a larger percentage of their income in taxes.
Who Pays the Most?
Income Brackets and Contributions
INCOME GROUP
AVERAGE TAX RATE
SHARE OF TOTAL INCOME TAXES PAIDTop 1%
26.1%
40.4%
Top 5%
23.1%
61.0%
Top 10%
21.1%
72.0%
Top 50%
15.9%
97.0%
Bottom 50%
3.7%
3.0%

The top 5% of earners paid over $1.3 trillion in income taxes in 2022, accounting for about 61% of the total.The top 10% contributed approximately 72% of the total income tax revenue.

Tax System Characteristics

• The federal income tax system is designed to be progressive, meaning that as income increases, the tax rate also increases.
• The lowest-income earners often pay little to no federal income tax due to refundable tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).

Conclusion
In summary, the majority of federal income taxes are paid by high-income earners, while lower-income individuals often benefit from tax credits that reduce their tax burden significantly.

As noted by Governor Newsom, the CA income tax structure is even more progressive.

The reason the top 1% pay less than you might expect is because they don't generate much taxable income (their wealth is tied-up in appreciated assets that produce little or no income, such as stock), and also much of their taxable income to the extent it exists, tends towards capital gains that receive preferential tax rates.

So after hearing all the *****es about Trump giving corporations tax breaks, imagine the disconnect when yet another liberal arts idiot says corporations pay no taxes. Why do you guys care about tax breaks if corporations pay no taxes in any event? I suppose a Cal grad could see the logic problem?

Again per AI:
In 2024, the U.S. federal government collected approximately $489.6 billion from corporate income taxes. This amount represents about 9% of total federal revenue.

This doesn't include the property, state, payroll and other taxes corporation pay.

You seem like the perfect Mamdani voter. Stupid is as stupid does.

---

Two main problems with your analysis:

-Multinationals including GAFA and big oil use offshore schemes and loopholes put in place by regulatory capture to avoid taxes on their corporate incomes. That half a trillion total corporate income should be a lot higher.

Yes, confirmed via primary sources: Tesla paid $0 U.S. federal income tax on $2.3B income in 2024 due to deductions and losses. GE got a $423M refund on $7B profits in 2023 (2024 data similar per reports). Meta paid at 11.5% rate in 2023. FedEx, Nike, AirBnb, 3M often net $0…

— Grok (@grok) July 4, 2025

-The middle class has been largely shut out from the overall growth in income, which has gone to the top brackets the last several decades.

---

You are missing the point. Overstating arguments with wild claims just underscores a lack of credibility and bias that leads to guys like Mamdami getting votes. Dude said no large corporations pay taxes. Dude said only middle and poor pay taxes. All of which is utter BS. His BS was accompanied by a lack of evidence or any context. Dude didn't say crap about growth in income. Dude didn't discuss specific tax situations where corporations reduce taxes like for example all those Bay Area tech companies bleeding earnings to places to tax havens like Switzerland through royalty payments to off shore affiliates that hold intellectual property rights (not just big mean oil companies).

It's nice that you want to assert new claims into the equation for deflection purposes. But the problem with propaganda from the left and the right these days is that people just make crap up which is so easy to spot, it deepens divisions, and basically is has people just thinking what they read is BS. It is eroding public trust in political institutions and the media. This can create a distorted perception of reality among voters, influencing their opinions and decisions based on falsehoods rather than facts. Why don't you just call the guy out, becuase he undermines the position of progressive on this board.

---

Presenting the basic patterns of income distribution over the last several decades in the context of income tax policy is not "deflection", it is the heart of the matter.

You live in a $3-4 million house bought in the 1990s for a few hundred thousand dollars, and talk about "a distorted perception of reality among voters" in NYC who are paying $5,000/mo rents for dingy 2BDR apts. You're the one here who is out of touch with the basic issues in that election.

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First, you don't know crap about me. But your home description is as accurate as the BS CalPoly is spewing.

Second, the dude said large corporations didn't pay taxes which is garbage. Then he made an incredibly illogical statement about who pays personal income demonstrating his lack of understanding basic tax and financial matters that you would except a college graduate to possess. It had nothing to do with your gripes about income distribution or what is important in a New York primary where the guy you like got less than 10% of the vote on the first round. No one asked you to hijack the response back to a guy with completely fallacious claims with your own pet peeves.

Third, by inserting a graph of the entire US with a label of class and how much money they make, and the obvious question is why don't you show an income distribution of New York City? New York was generally considered to have the worst income distribution of any large city in the country, based on any metrics, but with so may income earners leaving the New York area, Newark ranks third, with the highest earners making over 6.8 times as much as the lowest earners. Jersey City ranks fourth, at 6.1 times the earnings for the upper quintile. And New York City ranks sixth, with top earners making about 5.8 times more than their low-income counterparts you can think of, and getting worse, as its politics get bluer. Congrats to the really red (sarcasm intended) cities of New Orleans, Miami and Boston for beating some of the New York area cities. Data Census Bureau population data for 2022, 98 of the largest U.S. cities for which data was available were included.

Then we get to the next fallacy about income inequality is it is all about income tax breaks for the wealthy. In most urban areas the leading cause is thought to be housing and other costs, and indeed you make a comment about that. The biggest factor in urban areas is the decline of middle income homeowners who are moving away priced out of the real estate markets. The second biggest factor in the increase in upper-income families who require more money to "stay even" in higher cost urban areas. Silicon Valley Institute for Regional Study citing Pickerty, Saez and Thomas. Does any of this sound familiar to you?

The biggest disconnect that happens with financially ignorant people is they don't get that income taxes tax only income and not wealth. Basically the tax rates on high income individuals are primarily for professionals and upper management types, not billionaires. Those that wealthy typically own appreciated assets that throw off little taxable income. The largest contributors to both political parties fit this description, so it isn't going to change any time soon. So if we take your graph and convert that into level of wealth, you get a really different perspective. In urban areas and nationwide wealth inequality is much larger than income inequality, and really if the wealthy don't pay very much in taxes, why do you guys keep *****ing about changing income tax rates around the margins, or thinking that individual income tax deductions is what drives up costs for the lower classes? And who do you think pays most for all those income, property and other taxes paid by corporations? Don't they just get passed on mostly to the consumer? Just maybe it might someday occur to you that high taxes could be what drives up costs in higher tax areas?

To understand Mamdani, take him seriously but not literally

dajo9 said:

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To understand Mamdani, take him seriously but not literally

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same for Trump given all the weird crap he says?

wifeisafurd said:

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dajo9 said:

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To understand Mamdani, take him seriously but not literally

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same for Trump given all the weird crap he says?

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I am paraphrasing a quote about Trump

Favorability among NYC likely general election voters:

Bernie Sanders +29
Letitia James +26
AOC +15
Zohran Mamdani +9
The Democratic Party +0
Kathy Hochul -1
Andrew Cuomo -20
The Republican Party -41
Eric Adams -41
Donald Trump -45 https://t.co/8ZHUkre8zE

— aaron from queens 🇵🇸 (@aaronnarraph) July 14, 2025

Anarchistbear said:

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Favorability among NYC likely general election voters:

Bernie Sanders +29
Letitia James +26
AOC +15
Zohran Mamdani +9
The Democratic Party +0
Kathy Hochul -1
Andrew Cuomo -20
The Republican Party -41
Eric Adams -41
Donald Trump -45 https://t.co/8ZHUkre8zE

— aaron from queens 🇵🇸 (@aaronnarraph) July 14, 2025

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I predict that ether Cuomo or Adams will step down (to be decided in a Manhattan penthouse), and the Republican candidate will step down as well, in order to maximize the anti-Zohran vote. That is the only way he can lose, and their funders know that. It's going to be a tight election.

I think Cuomo and Adams stay in- both are driven by huge egos and dumber than fence posts.

Wanna bet?