Could it be as easy as divest or resign?

MC, list your Top 5 favorite Jazz albums and your Top 5 favorite Jazz musicians. What instrument do you play? My favorite Jazz album is Kind of Blue and my favorite musicians are Coltrane, Miles Davis, Stan Getz, Chet Baker and Bill Evans.

B.A. Bearacus said:

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Could it be as easy as divest or resign?

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Would the hoped-for, newly Democratic house have the guts to do that? And why would it mean anything without the Senate?

From the article:

"The reason we do not know much of anything regarding Trump's receipt of foreign monies is because, unlike other modern presidents, Trump has refused to release his tax returns and the GOP House has refused to assume its constitutional power to determine whether the president can accept foreign emoluments. Right now litigation is trying to remedy this likely constitutional violation. However, after the midterms, a Democratic House on a simple up-or-down vote could determine that no, the president cannot accept any foreign emoluments from the Saudis or anyone else.

You see, the emoluments clause requires affirmative permission from Congress; by explicitly denying him that permission, Congress would put Trump squarely in violation of the Constitution. In other words, it would be telling Trump, "Your emoluments or your presidency." And if Trump refuses to give up his emoluments while remaining president? Impeachment would be a remedy for a willful violation of the Constitution, but Congress might also obtain a court order (if it could survive standing issues and a host of other legal hurdles). Foreign funds, for example, might be impounded by court order at his properties. Like Iran sanctions, U.S. banks could be ordered to stop receipt of any overseas money from Trump properties."

B.A. Bearacus said:

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From the article:

"The reason we do not know much of anything regarding Trump's receipt of foreign monies is because, unlike other modern presidents, Trump has refused to release his tax returns and the GOP House has refused to assume its constitutional power to determine whether the president can accept foreign emoluments. Right now litigation is trying to remedy this likely constitutional violation. However, after the midterms, a Democratic House on a simple up-or-down vote could determine that no, the president cannot accept any foreign emoluments from the Saudis or anyone else.

You see, the emoluments clause requires affirmative permission from Congress; by explicitly denying him that permission, Congress would put Trump squarely in violation of the Constitution. In other words, it would be telling Trump, "Your emoluments or your presidency." And if Trump refuses to give up his emoluments while remaining president? Impeachment would be a remedy for a willful violation of the Constitution, but Congress might also obtain a court order (if it could survive standing issues and a host of other legal hurdles). Foreign funds, for example, might be impounded by court order at his properties. Like Iran sanctions, U.S. banks could be ordered to stop receipt of any overseas money from Trump properties."

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Congress (i.e., both houses) would still have to do something (otherwise the failure to grant permission would have already brought the issue to a head); and you're right about legal action (but maybe not as right as it seems you are saying -- the legal hurdles are enormous).

So basically for this country to have a chance of surviving Trump and the damage he's done...have to flip the house and ideally pick up a seat or two in the senate. This will allow congress to do its job and take on the emolument issues.

Sadly I agree, not likely to impeach Trump but that doesn't mean he can't be neutered and left impotent. I imagine if the Dems flip the house (and maybe tie the senate), Dotard Donnie will totally freak out from the pressure.

On a wider note, I guess this is how U.S. democracy works...if the Dems can flip things, and I believe the nation understand this fully. Furthermore, the damage to the GOP will be great. The job forward will be to hammer the Republicans into pulp with all the lies, tweets of hate, racism,sexism and utter stupidity and lies they have propagated. What goes around...comes around.

If the Dems take both houses Trump would probably propose Medicare for all. He's not limited by ideology only ego.

Layla, you've got me on my knees.
Layla, I'm begging, darling please.
Layla, darling won't you ease my worried mind.

okaydo said:

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Make-Believe Mutiny

Quote:

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The real reason Ivanka and Melania publicly contradict Donald Trump

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GOP needs to die faster.

"New Poll: 43% of Republicans Want to Give Trump the Power to Shut Down Media

The "enemy of the people" talk is working. A plurality of self-identified Republicans say they want Trump to have the power to take "bad" media outlets out."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/new-poll-43-of-republicans-want-to-give-trump-the-power-to-shut-down-media

It's not productive to respond to every Trump tweet, but he did use some novel phrasing in a tweet this morning.

Regarding the media: "Why can't they play it straight, so unfair to the Republican Party and in particular, your favorite President!"

America's most insecure man is also its president. How you like them apples?

Also:

Wonder what the breaking point will be for the last holdouts who think GW was a worse president than Trump. I guess if it's solely based on casualties of a fraudulent war, which is a fair measuring stick, Trump will never be the worst, despite how frequently he casually assaults and debases our nation.

B.A. Bearacus said:

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Wonder what the breaking point will be for the last holdouts who think GW was a worse president than Trump.

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IMO, it will happen if and when the economy crashes.

The Ohio special election is too close to call. Likely a recount. Regardless the big take away is the Blue Wave is here. That Ohio congressional district has been GOP for 30 years and went to Trump in '16 by 10 points. Now it's down to a few hundred votes. Yup, and a lot of that is on Trump. We'll have to wait and see if Devin Nunes and Dana Rohrabacher fall.

GWB still the worst by far but Trump is trying as hard as he can to surpass him. I'm just not sure he can crash our economy and start two wars before he's voted out of office.

Unit2Sucks said:

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GWB still the worst by far but Trump is trying as hard as he can to surpass him. I'm just not sure he can crash our economy and start two wars before he's voted out of office.

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Can't they be bad in different ways? With George W, he did do more harm, but I never felt our Republic was threatened, and never feared that he would not honor an election result to either impose himself as president for a third term or get his loyalists to dominate congress. I also felt that under GW's watch, there was no chance for either a civil war or some sort of coup.

I cannot say the same for Donald. He may not pull us into another 20 year war (though this article would disagree https://www.vox.com/2018/7/6/17536908/trump-venezuela-invade-military), but I do believe his existence and actions could potentially lead to prolonged civil strife involving hundreds dead. This is stemming from his desire to create alternate realities and constantly flaming the culture wars which further exacerbate the divide between the city folk and the country folk. Further, I'm not entirely certain he will not try to de-legitimize the upcoming mid-term elections if they go the way of the democrats.

With GW, his desire to nation-build and establish a New American Empire, led to foreign policy disasters financially crippling the country (ironically his platform in 2000 was explicitly against this).

With Trump, his desire to Make America Great Again, is creating conflicting realities which threaten maintaining a unified America.

Trump is comic relief compared to Bush.

The worse thing about Bush is that we are still living with his policies and there has been no move to change them- endless wars, refugees, destabilization of Middle East and Europe, the Patriot Act, the Security State, loss of civil liberties. The political upheavals - rise of far right parties-in the US and Europe are traceable to US policies- the migration crisis in Europe and the economic crisis in the US.

Trump hasn't had enough time to screw up as badly as Dubya. Give him a chance!

Trump is terrible at being terrible.

Bush was semi-good at being terrible (albeit, he was still perceived as a dumb guy).

Is it preferable to have somebody who is terrible at being terrible or somebody who is good at being terrible?

Imagine a more competent Trump....

Bush and Trump also have something in common in that they are perceived to be idiots, so it softens the perception of them.

People on the left and the media think Trump is such an idiot that he was easily beatable (if it weren't for Hillary), so they don't see him as smart and formidable. But he is very smart and an idiot.

Dubya and Trump sprouted from the same piece of crap.

Dubya started the IDIOCRACY trend...but TRUMP IS THE TRUE IDIOCRACY WRESLTING CANDIDATE.

Another Bear said:

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Dubya and Trump sprouted from the same piece of crap.

Dubya started the IDIOCRACY trend...but TRUMP IS THE TRUE IDIOCRACY WRESLTING CANDIDATE.

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The hilarious thing is that conservatives loved to paint Obama as a moron. They'd seize on the slightest gaffe to prove that the president was an idiot.

Trump was among them, questioning how it was possible that Obama could qualify to go to an Ivy League school.

Now they have a genuine moron*, and conservatives defend him no matter what.


(*Again, I think Trump is a moron, but he has a skill that makes him partially smart in my book. And that skill is to get away with all kinds of heinous sh*t. Evade. Evade. Evade.)

Who is worse?

a) A just barely qualified brain surgeon (with an evil assistant) who makes very bad decisions about how to operate on you, but who, in his mind, is guided by your overall health and well-being. End result: you die.

b) A guy who knows he is pretending to be a brain surgeon, saying things in the operating room that he either knows are lies or is clueless about, and is intentionally trying to damage your brain so that you won't realize how much he is about to steal from you to enrich himself, his family, and his friends. End result: your body is alive, but your brain is dead.

okaydo said:

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Another Bear said:

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Dubya and Trump sprouted from the same piece of crap.

Dubya started the IDIOCRACY trend...but TRUMP IS THE TRUE IDIOCRACY WRESLTING CANDIDATE.

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The hilarious thing is that conservatives loved to paint Obama as a moron. They'd seize on the slightest gaffe to prove that the president was an idiot.

Trump was among them, questioning how it was possible that Obama could qualify to go to an Ivy League school.

Now they have a genuine moron*, and conservatives defend him no matter what.


(*Again, I think Trump is a moron, but he has a skill that makes him partially smart in my book. And that skill is to get away with all kinds of heinous sh*t. Evade. Evade. Evade.)

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Here's why I like both Obama and Clinton: they're both most likely the smartest person in the room 90% of the time....AND both are self-made men. True full boot strapping backed by superior intellect. Personally I like that; smart people running the country who made it without any special treatment. Heck both had single mothers for parents.

Conversely, there's Dubya and Trump...both born on third base but thinking they hit a triple, and both are IDIOTS and fools. Jesus Christ, Dubya was a C student. (Trump's junior year transcript...a "D" and a "F".) A person given that many advantages shouldn't be dumb or intellectually challenged but they are.

To qualify to run for POTUS, there really should be: a) an IQ test, b) a mental health test, c) a civics test.

B.A. Bearacus said:

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Who is worse?

a) A just barely qualified brain surgeon (with an evil assistant) who makes very bad decisions about how to operate on you, but who, in his mind, is guided by your overall health and well-being. End result: you die.

b) A guy who knows he is pretending to be a brain surgeon, saying things in the operating room that he either knows are lies or is clueless about, and is intentionally trying to damage your brain so that you won't realize how much he is about to steal from you to enrich himself, his family, and his friends. End result: your body is alive, but your brain is dead.

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b. If your brain recovers four years later

Anarchistbear said:

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Trump is comic relief compared to Bush.

The worse thing about Bush is that we are still living with his policies and there has been no move to change them- endless wars, refugees, destabilization of Middle East and Europe, the Patriot Act, the Security State, loss of civil liberties. The political upheavals - rise of far right parties-in the US and Europe are traceable to US policies- the migration crisis in Europe and the economic crisis in the US.

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Not all of that started with Bush - as opposed to being standard Republican Orthodoxy starting with the "Southern Strategy". Also, both "the rise of far right parties" and the migration crisis in Europe (which is an adjunct and help to the former) I think owe more to Putin - because, as a result of Russia's social and economic political failure since at least the rise of Stalin, the general population of Russia is socially and economically way behind the other developed countries, one result of which has been the rise to power of the Russian Mafia, who, like all crime families, seek business opportunities in the interstices of the dominant culture, the major interstice of which in Europe is the power vacuum created by a combination of (a) the open borders of the European Union, (b) the degradation of the populations East of the European Union and in Sub-Saharan Africa many of whose economies and social systems are in the toilet, largely for inability to deal with the modern world, and (c) the failure of the European Union to develop meaningful ways of dealing with the flood of suffering people cosmically needing to go from those countries into the European Union where (whatever one might say about the difficulties) life, even as a refugee and despised minority, is still preferable to life where those folks come from (unless, of course, one is a slave to said Mafia).

bearister said:

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MC, list your Top 5 favorite Jazz albums and your Top 5 favorite Jazz musicians. What instrument do you play? My favorite Jazz album is Kind of Blue and my favorite musicians are Coltrane, Miles Davis, Stan Getz, Chet Baker and Bill Evans.

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For me, the answers to the above are too complicated; and so I tried to send you a PM to approach the subject; but apparently I'm not allowed to do that in this system.

okaydo said:

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(*Again, I think Trump is a moron, but he has a skill that makes him partially smart in my book. And that skill is to get away with all kinds of heinous sh*t. Evade. Evade. Evade.)

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He's dumb, but he has certain skills:

1. He can get enough people (not everyone or even most people, just enough) to buy whatever crap he's selling.

2. He can make people pay attention to him.

Those two things can make for a successful political candidacy under the right circumstances. They also won't help him govern for s**t. Whenever he's screwed something up in business before, he's been able to just cut and run and move on to the next venture. When you're the President it's different. Not so easy to run and hide.