kelly09 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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bearister said:

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Within an hour of learning the findings," the WashPost reports, "Trump called for an investigation of his critics and cast himself as a victim."

"Aides say Trump plans to ... call for organizations to fire members of the media and former government officials who he believes made false accusations about him."

Don Jr., the president's eldest son, tweeted: "How this farce started and snowballed ... into one the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on the America should be discovered. Those responsible should be held accountable."

And Rudy Giuliani said on Fox News: "[T]here has to be a full and complete investigation, with at least as much enthusiasm as this one, to figure out where did this charge emanate, who started it, and who paid for it." Axios

...and so we proceed down the road to totalitarianism. First seize he presses, throw them into the street and roll the tanks over them. Next come the journalists...

What to Make of Bill Barr's Letter

https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-make-bill-barrs-letter

---

To harken back, the original intent of the investigation was to find out the extent of Russian influence. There is ample evidence that Congress was right in investigating Russian influence and Rosenstein was right in ordering the Mueller investigation. There is a Russian problem. Trump may think everything is about him, but it isn't. Congress would do well to focus on the Russian problem, since the FBI total F'ed it up.

As for an investigation, not going to happen. The FBI is in bad enough shape after this. Barr will find away to distance the FBI and Justice from engaging in a witch hunt. The media that screamed about Trump colluding with the Russians already took a credibility hit, we don't need to sacrifice the First Amendment with some stupid investigation over people gun jumping and making what turned out to be incorrect remarks. That happens to us all at some point (or at least me).

---

Barr has got to go forward on invetigations into the DOJ, FBI and Brennan's CIA.The behavior or these entities in getting involved in American politics was despicable. It goes beyond that. Flynn's unmasking, the use of the Dossier and leaking of classified materials to an anti Trump media. All of this was bad and has to be dealt with.

---

The FBI went though an extensive internal investigation and fired agents who were overtly acting political against Trump or Clinton for that matter under Trump appointees. The agency has taken a huge hit for actions under Comey (I know some people love him). What more do you want? What purpose does it serve?

As for the CIA, any changes or investigations will not see the light of day. They are the deep state. I'm just trying to see what any investigations will accomplish, other than further damaging the FBI as an institution?

Statement: even those on here who experienced an overwhelming emotional win yesterday would concede that the actual findings should be released. Or am I way off?

offshorebear said:

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Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, the ranking Republican on the Committee on Oversight about getting documents from the Justice Department: "How can you ignore the facts when you don't get the facts? That's what this is all aboutI just want to get the informationI think we're right on target with this. We just want the information so we have the facts."

At that same proceeding, former Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C., then a member of the House Oversight Committee "the notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."

Sweet, so we will see the report and not the partisan "summary?" Oh wait, the above quotes are from the Hillary e-mails investigation. What hypocritical traitorous scumbags

---

In fairness, these are quotes from House Republicans, not Senate. I believe the House voted unanimously to see the full details of the Mueller report.

OdontoBear66 said:

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But in the posters mind if you did not care for Obama's Presidency that makes you racist. One cannot respond to ridiculous charges like that.

---

Odonto, you wrote: "Living in SoCal I know Obama was asked to leave Occidental in his soph year, and his records were sealed. Never to this day exposed. Quite frankly, I don't know what they can put in the Obama Library as most of his life was 'sealed'."

Did the same source (from that exclusive club known as SoCal) that asked you to believe that Obama was kicked out of Occidental also ask you to believe that he was born in Kenya and that he was a Muslim?

B.A. Bearacus said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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But in the posters mind if you did not care for Obama's Presidency that makes you racist. One cannot respond to ridiculous charges like that.

---

Odonto, you wrote: "Living in SoCal I know Obama was asked to leave Occidental in his soph year, and his records were sealed. Never to this day exposed. Quite frankly, I don't know what they can put in the Obama Library as most of his life was 'sealed'."

Did the same source (from that exclusive club known as SoCal) that asked you to believe that Obama was kicked out of Occidental also ask you to believe that he was born in Kenya and that he was a Muslim?

---

Absolutely not. Please note I have commented on his leaving Oxy (and such came from an alum of that school) and implying things about pre Harvard law. That is all. It regards what went on with his rise through the educational system ending up at Harvard, where records were more transparent. But the point is what does this have to do with race/racism or religion at all. I do not care for Obama policy and to me it has no bearing on his race/religion or mine. The only reason I respond is to point out how, if you disagree, the racist stone is thrown much to readily to silence one.

OdontoBear66 said:

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B.A. Bearacus said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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But in the posters mind if you did not care for Obama's Presidency that makes you racist. One cannot respond to ridiculous charges like that.

---

Odonto, you wrote: "Living in SoCal I know Obama was asked to leave Occidental in his soph year, and his records were sealed. Never to this day exposed. Quite frankly, I don't know what they can put in the Obama Library as most of his life was 'sealed'."

Did the same source (from that exclusive club known as SoCal) that asked you to believe that Obama was kicked out of Occidental also ask you to believe that he was born in Kenya and that he was a Muslim?

---

Absolutely not. Please note I have commented on his leaving Oxy (and such came from an alum of that school) and implying things about pre Harvard law. That is all. It regards what went on with his rise through the educational system ending up at Harvard, where records were more transparent. But the point is what does this have to do with race/racism or religion at all. I do not care for Obama policy and to me it has no bearing on his race/religion or mine. The only reason I respond is to point out how, if you disagree, the racist stone is thrown much to readily to silence one.

---

Let's just say that there have been some extremely race-based untruths that were spread by the current president and others about Obama's background and/or faith that were meant, at the time, to disqualify him. Into this mix, you're saying that you heard from someone who went to that school (I'm assuming a lot of people went to that school) that Obama was essentially kicked out of Occidental. Instead of innuendo about what is being covered up, why don't you just treat it as an unverified rumor not worthy of spreading?

offshorebear said:

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kelly09 said:

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concordtom said:

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B.A. Bearacus said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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Living in SoCal I know Obama was asked to leave Occidental in his soph year, and his records were sealed. Never to this day exposed. Quite frankly, I don't know what they can put in the Obama Library as most of his life was "sealed".

---

What on earth are you talking about?

---

He's racist.

Obama was the most intelligent speaking president I've heard in my lifetime or on video.
Did he speak slowly like a machine at times? Yes.
But what came out of his mouth was well considered and made sense.
His mistake was youth. I'm guessing that if he had aged another 15 years, his skin would have been thicker to take on his opponents. He'd have been bolder. He was too ideal and wanted to be bipartisan, and expected others would be as well. Instead, opponents saw the weakness and carved a path a mile wide. For instance, Obama should never have been silent in allowing McConnell to stall Merrick Garland for 18 months. Obama should have taken some pages out of the trump public opinion manipulation machine by blasting endlessly that move. But Obama is a nice guy, and doesn't play politics that way.

---

Obama may sound smart....

---

What is your contention? That Obama sounds smart but is dumb? And you sound dumb but are smart?

---

Yeah, that's about right. I think Trump is dumb also. Kind of a loud mouthed, gauche Chauncey the gardener.

B.A. Bearacus said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

B.A. Bearacus said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

But in the posters mind if you did not care for Obama's Presidency that makes you racist. One cannot respond to ridiculous charges like that.

---

Odonto, you wrote: "Living in SoCal I know Obama was asked to leave Occidental in his soph year, and his records were sealed. Never to this day exposed. Quite frankly, I don't know what they can put in the Obama Library as most of his life was 'sealed'."

Did the same source (from that exclusive club known as SoCal) that asked you to believe that Obama was kicked out of Occidental also ask you to believe that he was born in Kenya and that he was a Muslim?

---

Absolutely not. Please note I have commented on his leaving Oxy (and such came from an alum of that school) and implying things about pre Harvard law. That is all. It regards what went on with his rise through the educational system ending up at Harvard, where records were more transparent. But the point is what does this have to do with race/racism or religion at all. I do not care for Obama policy and to me it has no bearing on his race/religion or mine. The only reason I respond is to point out how, if you disagree, the racist stone is thrown much to readily to silence one.

---

Let's just say that there have been some extremely race-based untruths that were spread by the current president and others about Obama's background and/or faith that were meant, at the time, to disqualify him. Into this mix, you're saying that you heard from someone who went to that school (I'm assuming a lot of people went to that school) that Obama was essentially kicked out of Occidental. Instead of innuendo about what is being covered up, why don't you just treat it as an unverified rumor not worthy of spreading?

---

Probably for the same reason that there was no Russian collusion was not treated as an unverified rumor by the left for the last two years. Some things you process confirm your bias. The closer to the source and the more respected the source, the more you tend to buy in.

But you are missing the main point of why I am sticking around. What in the hell could any of this possibly do with race/racism? Nasty accusation by someone who I assume has a Cal degree. Quite narrow, and most certainly unsubstantiated.

Conservatives love Hitler and Nazis...but no THEY ARE NOT RACISTS!!!

Republican congressman reads Adolf Hitler quotes on the House floor to slam Democrats and the press

OBear073akaSMFan said:

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kelly09 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

bearister said:

---

Within an hour of learning the findings," the WashPost reports, "Trump called for an investigation of his critics and cast himself as a victim."

"Aides say Trump plans to ... call for organizations to fire members of the media and former government officials who he believes made false accusations about him."

Don Jr., the president's eldest son, tweeted: "How this farce started and snowballed ... into one the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on the America should be discovered. Those responsible should be held accountable."

And Rudy Giuliani said on Fox News: "[T]here has to be a full and complete investigation, with at least as much enthusiasm as this one, to figure out where did this charge emanate, who started it, and who paid for it." Axios

...and so we proceed down the road to totalitarianism. First seize he presses, throw them into the street and roll the tanks over them. Next come the journalists...

What to Make of Bill Barr's Letter

https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-make-bill-barrs-letter

---

To harken back, the original intent of the investigation was to find out the extent of Russian influence. There is ample evidence that Congress was right in investigating Russian influence and Rosenstein was right in ordering the Mueller investigation. There is a Russian problem. Trump may think everything is about him, but it isn't. Congress would do well to focus on the Russian problem, since the FBI total F'ed it up.

As for an investigation, not going to happen. The FBI is in bad enough shape after this. Barr will find away to distance the FBI and Justice from engaging in a witch hunt. The media that screamed about Trump colluding with the Russians already took a credibility hit, we don't need to sacrifice the First Amendment with some stupid investigation over people gun jumping and making what turned out to be incorrect remarks. That happens to us all at some point (or at least me).

---

Barr has got to go forward on invetigations into the DOJ, FBI and Brennan's CIA.The behavior or these entities in getting involved in American politics was despicable. It goes beyond that. Flynn's unmasking, the use of the Dossier and leaking of classified materials to an anti Trump media. All of this was bad and has to be dealt with.

---

..and all of Trump's deep throat pipe cleaners such as Barr, Sanders, and many on these sites should be investigated.

---

Kelly, I see you've been following party orders.
Trump said it, Graham said it, and now you.
Is this what FoxNews is putting out today, too? No doubt.
They are going on the attack.



I listened to this while driving, and wanted to slug the liar.
Lindsay Graham is as bad as Mitch McConnell.
We have sick sick men running our country.
I wish they'd all just die. Of natural causes.

kelly09 said:

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offshorebear said:

---

kelly09 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

B.A. Bearacus said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

Living in SoCal I know Obama was asked to leave Occidental in his soph year, and his records were sealed. Never to this day exposed. Quite frankly, I don't know what they can put in the Obama Library as most of his life was "sealed".

---

What on earth are you talking about?

---

He's racist.

Obama was the most intelligent speaking president I've heard in my lifetime or on video.
Did he speak slowly like a machine at times? Yes.
But what came out of his mouth was well considered and made sense.
His mistake was youth. I'm guessing that if he had aged another 15 years, his skin would have been thicker to take on his opponents. He'd have been bolder. He was too ideal and wanted to be bipartisan, and expected others would be as well. Instead, opponents saw the weakness and carved a path a mile wide. For instance, Obama should never have been silent in allowing McConnell to stall Merrick Garland for 18 months. Obama should have taken some pages out of the trump public opinion manipulation machine by blasting endlessly that move. But Obama is a nice guy, and doesn't play politics that way.

---

Obama may sound smart....

---

What is your contention? That Obama sounds smart but is dumb? And you sound dumb but are smart?

---

Yeah, that's about right. I think Trump is dumb also. Kind of a loud mouthed, gauche Chauncey the gardener.

---

You said it, not me.
Hahaha.

OdontoBear66 said:

---

B.A. Bearacus said:

---

Instead of innuendo about what is being covered up, why don't you just treat it as an unverified rumor not worthy of spreading?

---

Probably for the same reason that there was no Russian collusion was not treated as an unverified rumor by the left for the last two years. Some things you process confirm your bias. The closer to the source and the more respected the source, the more you tend to buy in.

---

Not really an equivalence here. The current president's words and actions display an extremely hard to reconcile bromance with Putin, even when it puts our own IC in a bad light. Combine that with those close to him already being indicted and his being a serial liar and there's reason to be suspicious of this Christian soldier (The Holy Bible is his favorite book despite his inability to quote a verse).

You are presumably a Cal grad and drawing an equivalence between that suspicion (which is shared by many sane Republicans) and to an Alex Jones-level suspicion around sealed college records likely inspired by a debunked infographic?

"Obama's college records aren't sealed, either, as the graphic claimed. It's simply illegal under federal law for Occidental College, Columbia University or Harvard Law School to release Obama's records to the press or the public without Obama's written permission. Presidential candidates almost never voluntarily release such information."

Why won't Republicans like this just admit they lost yesterday and move on?

And Republicans up until recently...

Honestly, none of us needed the mueller report for us to know that trump is an indecent scoundrel unfit for any public office.
All you have to do is listen to his bs any time he opens his mouth.

The muller report simply means he and Jared and Jr aren't going to jail any time soon.

sycasey said:

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In fairness, these are quotes from House Republicans, not Senate. I believe the House voted unanimously to see the full details of the Mueller report.

---

So, if the house wants to release the report and the senate does not, what happens?
Is it up to congress? Or will it be illegal to release based upon whatever AG Barr mandates?

Will Pelosi ever see a full version of the report? Or will she see a redacted version?
I did see she protested against a classified version.

Pls explain if you/anyone can.
Thx.

McConnell is against releasing the Mueller Report.

The Barr report is a 4 page cover-up letter.

p.s. I'm willing to wager the Mueller Report will be leaked if it's not released. If the GOP are smart (big question at this point) they would release it because they have a better chance of controlling damage. If it's leaked, the damage will be maximum.

B.A. Bearacus said:

---

Why won't Republicans like this just admit they lost yesterday and move on?

And Republicans up until recently...

---

I get the feeling these guys don't actually know what's in the report. It going public would go very bad for Trump. Even if he's not directly linked with an illegal action, the cumulative crimes committed by his subordinates do not look good for him. And it will open many other lines of investigation.

concordtom said:

---

Kelly, I see you've been following party orders.
Trump said it, Graham said it, and now you.
Is this what FoxNews is putting out today, too? No doubt.
They are going on the attack.

I listened to this while driving, and wanted to slug the liar.
Lindsay Graham is as bad as Mitch McConnell.
We have sick sick men running our country.
I wish they'd all just die. Of natural causes.

---

Seems like you want everyone who holds views different from yours to die. You are really sick, man.

Yogi Bear said:

---

B.A. Bearacus said:

---

Why won't Republicans like this just admit they lost yesterday and move on?

And Republicans up until recently...

---

I get the feeling these guys don't actually know what's in the report. It going public would go very bad for Trump. Even if he's not directly linked with an illegal action, the cumulative crimes committed by his subordinates do not look good for him. And it will open many other lines of investigation.

---

Given that Trump and his lawyers are arguing to release the report "to the extent possible", my guess is the redacted report will be just as bad, the courts will uphold the redactions, and the Dems will look like sore, whiny losers. Cut your losses and move on to things where there is hard evidence (such as documents and testimony) already out there. Trump's corp paid off Stormy and others and then deducted the amounts as legal fees. Most likely a campaign violation, certainly not a deduction, most likely a dividend. Tax fraud and evasion at a minimum. Already records that the CFO acted at Trump's request. At least there is a paper trail and sufficient evidence to indict, and the lawyers can argue about intent as the gaudy details of Trump's affairs with bimbos comes out. Demote Schiff, let go and back a winner. Start an investigation tomorrow to push the Souther District along and never use the word conspiracy again. Ever. You hear Meadow ever use the word conspiracy again take the flippen Mike away from her. From now on it is tax evasion. Voters care about that. They understand that. Repeat after me, TAX EVASION. Why is this so freaking hard to understand?

Golden One said:

---

concordtom said:

---

Kelly, I see you've been following party orders.
Trump said it, Graham said it, and now you.
Is this what FoxNews is putting out today, too? No doubt.
They are going on the attack.

I listened to this while driving, and wanted to slug the liar.
Lindsay Graham is as bad as Mitch McConnell.
We have sick sick men running our country.
I wish they'd all just die. Of natural causes.

---

Seems like you want everyone who holds views different from yours to die. You are really sick, man.

---

Just like Sarah Huckabee Sanders!

Golden One said:

---

concordtom said:

---

Kelly, I see you've been following party orders.
Trump said it, Graham said it, and now you.
Is this what FoxNews is putting out today, too? No doubt.
They are going on the attack.

I listened to this while driving, and wanted to slug the liar.
Lindsay Graham is as bad as Mitch McConnell.
We have sick sick men running our country.
I wish they'd all just die. Of natural causes.

---

Seems like you want everyone who holds views different from yours to die. You are really sick, man.

---

Yeah, I know.
I just can't imagine how so many people have been brainwashed and misled.
I used to think that good would prevail over bad, that travesties like WW and the Holocaust were in the past, that we were on a path toward the 60's hippy utopia world my mother raised me in.

Now I see that man is but a child, playing with matches, fumbling around.

There is no way that Trump represents a step forward. And yet, so many of you fine folks are seemingly just as convinced he is. It's been a very sad 3 years of witness for me.

I have a novel inside about Paradise Lost. I'll sign a copy for you when it's printed.
Just please understand that my hyperbolic desperation is not an actual wish for anyone to die. It represents the death of hope that has already died inside me by what I've witnessed. The idealist who resides with a thousand pounds of dirt on top of him would never actually wish that upon another.
My apologies. But I suppose the book of Revelation was right. Another storm is coming. It's bound to; look whose got the matches. Look at the ice caps. Look at the rainforest. Look at the growing global population.

Man has had nuclear power for 74 years now.
We've had two intentional detonations, two reactor core meltdowns, and zero dirty bombs exploded.

What do you think the chances are those numbers remain for the next 75 years?

The dominos are all set up, ready to spill.

I was affected by 9/11.
I had colleagues die at Cantor.
I also worked in a tall building in a financial city center.
That was the target.

In the days that followed, scrambled jets flew outside our building. Were we next?

The nation worried.
Tunnels could be bombed. The Lincoln. The Holland. The subway. BART.

Can you imagine what would happen if McVeigh drove his truck bomb off Folsom Damn Road?
What is that white substance in those envelopes? That really happened.
Do you know how to collect nuclear waste from X-ray machines at your local hospital? Build a dirty bomb.
Do you know what would happen to commerce if the interbanking transfer system is hacked and shut down?
Do you know what would happen if VISA card transactions were halted?
Do you know how dependent we are on satellites, and how easily they can be picked off like the unsuspecting and defenseless dodo bird?

How many mass herds are left to migrate? 1:wildebeest. Go see it soon, before it's too late.

The rise of Trump is accomplished via the support of just enough people.
The rise of Trump goes against all logic and rationality.
The rise of Trump is a sign that all things are possible.

Trump is a step backward in so many ways.
That he has taken so many with him is a shocker to me.
It kills hope.
I am slapped by the reality that we are merely living in the "in-between-times".

I first learned of Jane Goodall in 6th grade. We had a lengthy segment (a couple months) watching her films of Flo, Flint, and Fifi, learning about chimpanzee behavior. That would have been about 1978/9?

In the mid 99's, my wife helped out on a speech of her in Walnut Creek.
I was saddened to hear her say that the chimps of Gombe were most likely destined for extinction, because their land was been cut up and splintered by humans. So, even though there was a Gombe preserve, it was surrounded by deforested lands which cut them off from reeding with other populations. They would die from inbreeding if nothing else. I was saddened!

But now when you hear her talk, with so much more calamity at the feet of the planet's environment causing so much less hope for thousands of species, she doesn't spend so much time talking about our ruination. Instead, she spreads a message of hope, to continue the fight toward salvation.

I admire her still, but in the end, she knows what's coming.

Trump does not need to March his armies or explode any bombs to lead us to ruination.
It's what we are NOT working on while watching his sideshow of egoism that will get us.

The in-between-times.
While the facade of good times blinded us.

When we were kids, Cold War era, we would sometimes ask ourselves what we would do if we got word that the missles were on their way and we had only 15 minutes left to live.

Even guy's answer was that we would go have sex.

Golden One said:

---

concordtom said:

---

Kelly, I see you've been following party orders.
Trump said it, Graham said it, and now you.
Is this what FoxNews is putting out today, too? No doubt.
They are going on the attack.

I listened to this while driving, and wanted to slug the liar.
Lindsay Graham is as bad as Mitch McConnell.
We have sick sick men running our country.
I wish they'd all just die. Of natural causes.

---

Seems like you want everyone who holds views different from yours to die. You are really sick, man.

---

So, as you can see, my statement is of desperation.
There is no way to stop people like you from leading us to the abyss.
Hope might have saved us from people like me, who burn fossil fuels, and multiply, and whose trash somehow, invariably, ends up in the Great Pacific Gyre.
But that people like you believe in people like Trump means there is no way for Hope to win out. We will not overcome climate change, avoid nuclear war, avert disaster, and build that utopian society of the future.
The chimpanzees at Gombe may live out their remaining days in peace. But "the end" awaits.
These are the "in-between-times".

What are you some suburban free versing Republican straight Allen Ginsburg? Is this the Sierra County version of Howl? Needs work, Tom. F$ck chimps. Work a whale in.

Sorry, lol, I don't even know what that means.
I'll have to bone up on Ginsberg.
The whale is a possibility, though.

"He swam the oceans for decades, searching for a mate, the last mate perhaps, avoiding trash, plastic, and nets along the way...."