calbear93 said:
OaktownBear said:
calbear93 said:
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/espn-nba-reporter-tweets-george-floyd-protests/1eefhr1gpdx791oxlllizoun9i
I'm sorry 93, but you are being inconsistent here and I ask you to consider your inconsistency. Just two days ago you told me I shouldn't waste energy on what the President of the United States says on this issue. Now you are "wasting time" on a tweet by a random guy on Twitter. I think this is actually an important discussion to have.
I'll start by saying the guy acted like an idiot.
But I think you should ask yourself why you think I shouldn't be upset over the President's comments but you should be upset over this guy's comments. I'll explain why i think it is the opposite.
The President has power to make policy. He represents America. He is the leader of his political group. Millions follow his lead. What he says has an impact.
Your guy is one voice in a crowd of 330 million. There are roughly 100 million Democrats and liberals out there. If 1 percent say something stupid, that is a million stupid comments that you can be outraged by. That others can spoon feed to their target audience to stoke anger. Both sides do it. I implore you to see reason in this because pointing outrage at one side or the other over comments by random people just leads to a never ending cycle of outrage. I can't even stop a few hundred people in this board from being idiots in whether to fire or support a coach. I certainly can't get 100 million people to speak in unison.
I think it is fair to criticize and get upset with a group for the words of their leaders. If Joe Biden did this, you'd have good reason to be angry. I think I have good reason to be angry at what my president says. Former Bleacherreport reporter? I don't see it.
You just can't tell me not to waste energy on the words of POTUS and then waste energy on this guy. And I don't think you are being hypocrite. But I do think you are letting your emotions get the better of you between Saturday and today
Oak - I will explain why my current outrage is directed at the likes of Chris Palmer, going4roses, calpoly, and dajo.
I have never been unequivocal about Trump. Even before the 2016 election, I expressed my views that Hillary will make a much better president and was shocked that someone like Trump could win. This isn't a question of how I feel about Trump generally.
However, I can put aside my feelings for Trump and consider the riots that are burning our cities. Trump isn't justifying the rioters or confusing the black community with anarchists and Antifa. So, I am not interested in adding to my already immense disdain for him
No, in this situation, my disdain lies for people like Chris Palmer (who is not some random twitter but is a former NBA player and current ESPN reporter) who thinks it's all great that neighborhoods are burning down until it comes too close to his neighborhood. Then he calls them "animals". Or people like going4roses thinking justifying rioting by referring to slavery is valid.
So, in this instance, my outrage is for those who are too stupid to be unable to separate the black community's outrage against police brutality from criminals who just want to steal and burn. There is no justification for the destruction to local neighborhood. When someone say "I don't condone property damage" and then proceeds to explain and justify it, they are excusing it. And although I am fully aware we need to move on from this failure of an administration, it does disgust me that I have to stand with the likes of dajo and going4roses and Chris Palmer to do so.
93 I hope you will understand that my words in this post are not meant to vilify you or point fingers at you, so if I get sloppy with my language and it seems that way, understand I do not mean it that way. These are very difficult and very emotional issues.
Let me clear less important issues first. Democrats have Farrakhan. Republicans have David Duke. It is a two party system. There are repugnant people who support each side for strategic purposes because their view can't win a majority. Neither of us stands with these people. I think your real frustration is you have become a man without a party because your party, hopefully temporarily, but I fear not, has abandoned you. You are essentially forced to side with those who have been political adversaries all your life. I welcome anyone of good conscience to my "side", not because I need your vote let's face it, Trump isn't winning California. Honestly, I hope you can return to the Republican Party soon and bring decency that in my opinion is lacking right now.
I think you need more empathy for opposing views on this one. I think you normally have that empathy and I think emotion has got the better of you on this one.
I get that you are done talking about Trump. But more than that you told me I shouldn't. I drastically disagree with that. I'm sorry, but Chris Palmer is a nobody and has no impact on anybody. I don't care if he played in the NBA or is a sports reporter. As I said, he is an idiot. The President, no matter how much you may be done with him is our leader. What he says is relevant. You said you agreed with almost everything I said about his statements but I shouldn't waste my energy on them. This is where I think you need to try for more empathy.
I am not the right person to be writing this. I'm not Black and I can't begin to understand being Black in America from an emotional perspective. But I can try from an intellectual perspective and I feel I owe that much with the privilege I have enjoyed. So I'm going to do my best to paint the picture that I paint in my head to give myself SOME understanding.
So I'm going to start at 2016 and try and put myself in the shoes of a Black person. Let's fast forward through slavery, KKK, lynchings, segregation, poverty, all of that. We are in 2016. We are coming to the end of the term of the first Black president. And a candidate rises up who is a total buffoon (in my view). His political claim to fame is spending years deriding the first Black president and doing what no one has done to any other president challenged his legitimacy as an American citizen against all evidence. In my mind, that is what he is known for being a racist asshat to the first Black president. Then he goes to town staking out the racist low ground. In my view, he is making people like me the enemy as a foil to play off of. Many of his followers love it and they love the freedom to in their words not be PC, but in my words revel in racism. And this guy wins. And he has the staunch support of about 40% of the people and a majority of the White people. They either like what he is saying about me or they don't give a damn that he is saying it. That is what my country is telling me.
In the meantime, in an issue that has been in the news for a number of years already, Blacks are too often being abused and killed by police. And the perpetrators are rarely charged, always undercharged, and almost never convicted. And their acts are supported and/or excused by a large percentage of the people. The President, with all the support of his 40%, not only doesn't do anything to help right this injustice. He uses it by pointing at a football player who protests the injustice and goes to war with those who protest the injustice, egging on his 40% all the way.
And in the following years more people are profiled, more people are abused, more people die. We talk and protest and nothing is changing. And then we have a video of a cop kneeling on the neck of a handcuffed Black man for 9 minutes until he dies. Unequivocal horror. No reasonable person could think otherwise. And I get a weak ass statement from the president with no statement that he is going to do anything about it, but a day later he reaches back to the sixties to quote an anti-civil rights leader who ordered law enforcement to shoot Black protesters. That is what I get. And 43% of America think he's doing a good job. So I ask you. Do you really think that person should not waste their energy on what the president says. Do you really think there is more justification for you to be outraged by Chris Palmer?
93, I know you are horrified by what happened to Floyd. I know you do not like Trump. I know you can be outraged by both and be outraged by Chris Palmer and by looters. As can I. Here is the rub. This country needs good men like you to be MORE outraged by what happened to Floyd than by Chris Palmer. It needs to be more than intellectual. It needs to be visceral and emotional. You have been calm and logical in your condemnation of the cops who killed Floyd. You have been emotional and outraged by the protests and by people like Palmer. That needs to flip. We need to be moved viscerally by the former. Enough to make our leaders change. Not just bring charges against one guy. Change things so it doesn't happen again.
As for going4roses. He and I have had our differences, mostly on the sports side. On this issue I think we have had fruitful conversations. I think I am on the same side of the spectrum as he is, but I often disagree with the extent to which he goes and I think some of the instances he posts may be questionable. But I value his contribution because I think people like me need to see it. I think we need to see the frustration. I think we need to see how people like him view the world. I think he has bias, (as we all do) but I think that bias is hard earned. I can't say that I wouldn't be there with him if I had his experience. And I've always been able to get to a reasonable point with him, which I appreciate especially given we have had history going after each other pretty hard on Sonny Dykes. I'll say this, based on the conversations I've had, if I were a cop on trial for shooting a Black suspect, I'd be fine with him on my jury. Push comes to shove he is fair. And from the beginning, I cannot bring myself to condemn him for any of the stances he has taken. I haven't walked in his shoes. I have never had to come close to my breaking point. On occasion my wife and/or my daughters experience discrimination that is nothing close to what a Black person has to face and it outrages me. If that were every day. If that were more severe. I don't know when I'd break.
