Golden One said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Obama got caught spying on Trump's campaign.

---

If Obama broke the law then he should answer for it like the Criminal in Chief should answer for his crimes. After almost 4 years No Drama Obama hasn't been charged with any crimes. The Criminal in Chief AKA Individual #1 has been impeached, his charity has been shuttered so he can't use it as a personal piggy bank, and he has had to pardon Flynn, Stone, and others. I wonder if the Criminal in Chief AKA Captain Catastrophe will be able to say he hasn't been charged a year after he leaves office? The Southern District of New York U.S. Attorney's office, the FBI, and the IRS are looking to cornhole the Criminal in Chief and his Merry Band of Idiots.

---

Un, Trump has NOT pardoned Flynn. Once again, your TDS is showing through.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

Do you think he won't pardon Flynn if he has a chance? The worshiping of the Cult of The Donald is strong with this one.

---

Doesn't matter. You said he has already pardoned Flynn, which he has not. Get your facts straight and stop acting like a seasoned leftist. Leftists have a habit of just making stuff up.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

You are a true believer and your tinfoil hat must be large. I think you might be mistaken on the making it up argument because nobody makes stuff up like the Criminal in Chief. Remember this week's comment regarding not wanting to create panic? I'm pretty sure his campaign is based on nothing but creating panic.

1. The Dems will destroy the suburbs
2. Antifa is going to move in next door
3. People of color are going to move to the suburbs destroying your home's value
4. Suburban women beware if the Dems win you won't be safe.
5. Dems will ruin the economy
These are just a few of his hits for just this week. Now who is making stuff up?

---

None of those 5 points is made up. They're all true.

---

Just want to point out that you just said that people of color moving to the suburbs will destroy your homes value is a true statement. I assume that was a mistake as I really didn't think you would believe that, no matter how much we lock horns. Can you please clarify that you do not believe that? Because otherwise I have to take you at your word that you do. I'd like to know who I'm dealing with.

---

You are correct. I don't believe that. The concern is having the anarchists and domestic terrorists (a la Portland) taking their violence into the suburbs. Those anarchists could be of any color.

---

Thank you for the clarification.

Golden One said:

---

calpoly said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Obama got caught spying on Trump's campaign.

---

If Obama broke the law then he should answer for it like the Criminal in Chief should answer for his crimes. After almost 4 years No Drama Obama hasn't been charged with any crimes. The Criminal in Chief AKA Individual #1 has been impeached, his charity has been shuttered so he can't use it as a personal piggy bank, and he has had to pardon Flynn, Stone, and others. I wonder if the Criminal in Chief AKA Captain Catastrophe will be able to say he hasn't been charged a year after he leaves office? The Southern District of New York U.S. Attorney's office, the FBI, and the IRS are looking to cornhole the Criminal in Chief and his Merry Band of Idiots.

---

Un, Trump has NOT pardoned Flynn. Once again, your TDS is showing through.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

Do you think he won't pardon Flynn if he has a chance? The worshiping of the Cult of The Donald is strong with this one.

---

Doesn't matter. You said he has already pardoned Flynn, which he has not. Get your facts straight and stop acting like a seasoned leftist. Leftists have a habit of just making stuff up.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

You are a true believer and your tinfoil hat must be large. I think you might be mistaken on the making it up argument because nobody makes stuff up like the Criminal in Chief. Remember this week's comment regarding not wanting to create panic? I'm pretty sure his campaign is based on nothing but creating panic.

1. The Dems will destroy the suburbs
2. Antifa is going to move in next door
3. People of color are going to move to the suburbs destroying your home's value
4. Suburban women beware if the Dems win you won't be safe.
5. Dems will ruin the economy
These are just a few of his hits for just this week. Now who is making stuff up?

---

None of those 5 points is made up. They're all true.

---

From the troll of disinformation!

---

Love conquers hate.

---

Yes it does, I'm glad to see that you agree that we should conquer the tRump crime family.

Golden One said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Obama got caught spying on Trump's campaign.

---

If Obama broke the law then he should answer for it like the Criminal in Chief should answer for his crimes. After almost 4 years No Drama Obama hasn't been charged with any crimes. The Criminal in Chief AKA Individual #1 has been impeached, his charity has been shuttered so he can't use it as a personal piggy bank, and he has had to pardon Flynn, Stone, and others. I wonder if the Criminal in Chief AKA Captain Catastrophe will be able to say he hasn't been charged a year after he leaves office? The Southern District of New York U.S. Attorney's office, the FBI, and the IRS are looking to cornhole the Criminal in Chief and his Merry Band of Idiots.

---

Un, Trump has NOT pardoned Flynn. Once again, your TDS is showing through.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

Do you think he won't pardon Flynn if he has a chance? The worshiping of the Cult of The Donald is strong with this one.

---

Doesn't matter. You said he has already pardoned Flynn, which he has not. Get your facts straight and stop acting like a seasoned leftist. Leftists have a habit of just making stuff up.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

You are a true believer and your tinfoil hat must be large. I think you might be mistaken on the making it up argument because nobody makes stuff up like the Criminal in Chief. Remember this week's comment regarding not wanting to create panic? I'm pretty sure his campaign is based on nothing but creating panic.

1. The Dems will destroy the suburbs
2. Antifa is going to move in next door
3. People of color are going to move to the suburbs destroying your home's value
4. Suburban women beware if the Dems win you won't be safe.
5. Dems will ruin the economy
These are just a few of his hits for just this week. Now who is making stuff up?

---

None of those 5 points is made up. They're all true.

---

Just want to point out that you just said that people of color moving to the suburbs will destroy your homes value is a true statement. I assume that was a mistake as I really didn't think you would believe that, no matter how much we lock horns. Can you please clarify that you do not believe that? Because otherwise I have to take you at your word that you do. I'd like to know who I'm dealing with.

---

You are correct. I don't believe that. The concern is having the anarchists and domestic terrorists (a la Portland) taking their violence into the suburbs. Those anarchists could be of any color.

---

There's are several obvious reasons why the anarchists will never take their protests into the suburbs

calpoly said:

---

Golden One said:

---

calpoly said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Obama got caught spying on Trump's campaign.

---

If Obama broke the law then he should answer for it like the Criminal in Chief should answer for his crimes. After almost 4 years No Drama Obama hasn't been charged with any crimes. The Criminal in Chief AKA Individual #1 has been impeached, his charity has been shuttered so he can't use it as a personal piggy bank, and he has had to pardon Flynn, Stone, and others. I wonder if the Criminal in Chief AKA Captain Catastrophe will be able to say he hasn't been charged a year after he leaves office? The Southern District of New York U.S. Attorney's office, the FBI, and the IRS are looking to cornhole the Criminal in Chief and his Merry Band of Idiots.

---

Un, Trump has NOT pardoned Flynn. Once again, your TDS is showing through.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

Do you think he won't pardon Flynn if he has a chance? The worshiping of the Cult of The Donald is strong with this one.

---

Doesn't matter. You said he has already pardoned Flynn, which he has not. Get your facts straight and stop acting like a seasoned leftist. Leftists have a habit of just making stuff up.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

You are a true believer and your tinfoil hat must be large. I think you might be mistaken on the making it up argument because nobody makes stuff up like the Criminal in Chief. Remember this week's comment regarding not wanting to create panic? I'm pretty sure his campaign is based on nothing but creating panic.

1. The Dems will destroy the suburbs
2. Antifa is going to move in next door
3. People of color are going to move to the suburbs destroying your home's value
4. Suburban women beware if the Dems win you won't be safe.
5. Dems will ruin the economy
These are just a few of his hits for just this week. Now who is making stuff up?

---

None of those 5 points is made up. They're all true.

---

From the troll of disinformation!

---

Love conquers hate.

---

Yes it does, I'm glad to see that you agree that we should conquer the tRump crime family.

---

If you were to get over your intense hatred of all things Trump, you would be a lot easier to get along with. Love conquers hate.

Todd Ingram said:

---

Golden One said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Obama got caught spying on Trump's campaign.

---

If Obama broke the law then he should answer for it like the Criminal in Chief should answer for his crimes. After almost 4 years No Drama Obama hasn't been charged with any crimes. The Criminal in Chief AKA Individual #1 has been impeached, his charity has been shuttered so he can't use it as a personal piggy bank, and he has had to pardon Flynn, Stone, and others. I wonder if the Criminal in Chief AKA Captain Catastrophe will be able to say he hasn't been charged a year after he leaves office? The Southern District of New York U.S. Attorney's office, the FBI, and the IRS are looking to cornhole the Criminal in Chief and his Merry Band of Idiots.

---

Un, Trump has NOT pardoned Flynn. Once again, your TDS is showing through.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

Do you think he won't pardon Flynn if he has a chance? The worshiping of the Cult of The Donald is strong with this one.

---

Doesn't matter. You said he has already pardoned Flynn, which he has not. Get your facts straight and stop acting like a seasoned leftist. Leftists have a habit of just making stuff up.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

You are a true believer and your tinfoil hat must be large. I think you might be mistaken on the making it up argument because nobody makes stuff up like the Criminal in Chief. Remember this week's comment regarding not wanting to create panic? I'm pretty sure his campaign is based on nothing but creating panic.

1. The Dems will destroy the suburbs
2. Antifa is going to move in next door
3. People of color are going to move to the suburbs destroying your home's value
4. Suburban women beware if the Dems win you won't be safe.
5. Dems will ruin the economy
These are just a few of his hits for just this week. Now who is making stuff up?

---

None of those 5 points is made up. They're all true.

---

Just want to point out that you just said that people of color moving to the suburbs will destroy your homes value is a true statement. I assume that was a mistake as I really didn't think you would believe that, no matter how much we lock horns. Can you please clarify that you do not believe that? Because otherwise I have to take you at your word that you do. I'd like to know who I'm dealing with.

---

You are correct. I don't believe that. The concern is having the anarchists and domestic terrorists (a la Portland) taking their violence into the suburbs. Those anarchists could be of any color.

---

There's are several obvious reasons why the anarchists will never take their protests into the suburbs

---

Promise?

Are anarchists white or black or ?

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Obama got caught spying on Trump's campaign.

---

If Obama broke the law then he should answer for it like the Criminal in Chief should answer for his crimes. After almost 4 years No Drama Obama hasn't been charged with any crimes. The Criminal in Chief AKA Individual #1 has been impeached, his charity has been shuttered so he can't use it as a personal piggy bank, and he has had to pardon Flynn, Stone, and others. I wonder if the Criminal in Chief AKA Captain Catastrophe will be able to say he hasn't been charged a year after he leaves office? The Southern District of New York U.S. Attorney's office, the FBI, and the IRS are looking to cornhole the Criminal in Chief and his Merry Band of Idiots.

---

Un, Trump has NOT pardoned Flynn. Once again, your TDS is showing through.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

Do you think he won't pardon Flynn if he has a chance? The worshiping of the Cult of The Donald is strong with this one.

---

Doesn't matter. You said he has already pardoned Flynn, which he has not. Get your facts straight and stop acting like a seasoned leftist. Leftists have a habit of just making stuff up.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

You are a true believer and your tinfoil hat must be large. I think you might be mistaken on the making it up argument because nobody makes stuff up like the Criminal in Chief. Remember this week's comment regarding not wanting to create panic? I'm pretty sure his campaign is based on nothing but creating panic.

1. The Dems will destroy the suburbs
2. Antifa is going to move in next door
3. People of color are going to move to the suburbs destroying your home's value
4. Suburban women beware if the Dems win you won't be safe.
5. Dems will ruin the economy
These are just a few of his hits for just this week. Now who is making stuff up?

---

None of those 5 points is made up. They're all true.

---

Golden One

Let's have a real talk here.

Okay, you clarified you don't really believe #3 is true, so skip it.

#5 It's economic policy. I don't want to focus too hard on this here, though I'm happy to have that discussion. I have to say that when you look at the last 100 years, the economy by virtually every measure has faired better under Democratic administrations than Republicans. But who would be better for the economy today is an opinion I'm happy to agree to disagree on.

#2 I am happy to shut down Antifa. If they are truly Anti-Fascist they should realize by now they are helping the Fascist cause by creating a distraction from the violence perpetrated by Fascists. Violence on either side does no good. Standing up to fascism using passive resistance is great. When some decided that using physical means to "defend" against fascism, that was a slippery slope that should have been obvious where that was going to result. Taking the next step that using violence to defend against ideas that supposedly perpetrate violence is not a tolerable position. IMO, there may be some misguided people who are doing the wrong thing for what they think are the right reasons, but I already saw this in my time at Berkeley. Mostly they are losers who are piggy backing on other's causes to get their own attention. As a liberal they are a thorn in my side. The bottom line is they are hard to catch and wipe out. If these types were so easy to catch there would be no Fa for them to be Anti in the first place.

But their influence and effect has always been greatly exaggerated. Antifa never has and never will be a significant threat to suburbs. They are pilot fish and their host has no intention of leaving the city.

But 1, 4, and to a large extent 2 are all the same issue. C'mon man. Your whole life when politicians have tried to create this fear of the big city coming with their violent ways, when has that ever actually happened? You know it hasn't. People in urban areas do not want to invade non-urban areas.

Both urban and non-urban people need to respect the fact that they are different and have different priorities. There is clear data on the differences. People in urban areas like lots of stimuli. They like new experiences. They like living with people who are different. They like things changing all the time. They find that interesting. They like (or are least tolerate) high population density. They like loud, noisy lives. They are willing to accept the drawbacks that come with that to have more choices and experiences every day. People in non-urban areas are more conservative, not necessarily politically (though that tends to be the case). They like quiet. They like to be in control of their experiences. They like to see fewer people. They like things cleaner and neater. They like their life tomorrow to be the same as their life today. They are willing to give up choices to have that.

Both are okay. Neither wants to live like the other. Neither wants to live where the other lives. Neither is coming to the other or threatening the other. Neither is asking the other to live like they do. We need to stop acting like anyone is doing this.

I am a big states and local rights guy. The worst thing that ever happened is primarily the Southern states co-opting the concept of states rights to argue for their right to keep slaves, have segregation, etc. The bottom line is that our country is designed with a clear demarcation of powers. Individual rights are set forth in the Constitution and the federal government has the responsibility to enforce those rights. The federal government also has the job of governing national issues. Local issues should be managed locally. The idea that this is a Democratic or Republican issue is just incorrect. Unfortunately both sides feel the need to interfere in local issues of others far too much. (And if you can't admit the Republicans do this, you aren't being honest with yourself).

People who choose to move from urban areas to non-urban areas are doing so because they want to join that lifestyle. They may be gay. They may be liberal. They may be People of Color. But they want that life. They don't want to ruin that life. They are making a choice. No one is coming to get the suburbs. No one is transporting the protests in a couple blocks of Portland to Corvallis. There is no Democratic policy that you can point to that will do this. There is nothing to fear from the fact that we are over here in our cities living how we want to live. You don't need to join us and we aren't joining you.

Golden One said:

---

Todd Ingram said:

---

Golden One said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Obama got caught spying on Trump's campaign.

---

If Obama broke the law then he should answer for it like the Criminal in Chief should answer for his crimes. After almost 4 years No Drama Obama hasn't been charged with any crimes. The Criminal in Chief AKA Individual #1 has been impeached, his charity has been shuttered so he can't use it as a personal piggy bank, and he has had to pardon Flynn, Stone, and others. I wonder if the Criminal in Chief AKA Captain Catastrophe will be able to say he hasn't been charged a year after he leaves office? The Southern District of New York U.S. Attorney's office, the FBI, and the IRS are looking to cornhole the Criminal in Chief and his Merry Band of Idiots.

---

Un, Trump has NOT pardoned Flynn. Once again, your TDS is showing through.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

Do you think he won't pardon Flynn if he has a chance? The worshiping of the Cult of The Donald is strong with this one.

---

Doesn't matter. You said he has already pardoned Flynn, which he has not. Get your facts straight and stop acting like a seasoned leftist. Leftists have a habit of just making stuff up.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

You are a true believer and your tinfoil hat must be large. I think you might be mistaken on the making it up argument because nobody makes stuff up like the Criminal in Chief. Remember this week's comment regarding not wanting to create panic? I'm pretty sure his campaign is based on nothing but creating panic.

1. The Dems will destroy the suburbs
2. Antifa is going to move in next door
3. People of color are going to move to the suburbs destroying your home's value
4. Suburban women beware if the Dems win you won't be safe.
5. Dems will ruin the economy
These are just a few of his hits for just this week. Now who is making stuff up?

---

None of those 5 points is made up. They're all true.

---

Just want to point out that you just said that people of color moving to the suburbs will destroy your homes value is a true statement. I assume that was a mistake as I really didn't think you would believe that, no matter how much we lock horns. Can you please clarify that you do not believe that? Because otherwise I have to take you at your word that you do. I'd like to know who I'm dealing with.

---

You are correct. I don't believe that. The concern is having the anarchists and domestic terrorists (a la Portland) taking their violence into the suburbs. Those anarchists could be of any color.

---

There's are several obvious reasons why the anarchists will never take their protests into the suburbs

---

Promise?

---

Yes. I promise.

okaydo said:

---

---

Aun

Aun's are the best type of people. They can be weird and lame but their best friend still bares them. Aun's are usually all rounders. They are cute too but their best friend doesn't tell them this too often to keep them on the line. They are a lot of fun and are special. They can be a loser too. But yeah overall they are nice.

AUN!!!!

OaktownBear said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

Golden One said:

---

BearNIt said:

---

BearForce2 said:

---

Obama got caught spying on Trump's campaign.

---

If Obama broke the law then he should answer for it like the Criminal in Chief should answer for his crimes. After almost 4 years No Drama Obama hasn't been charged with any crimes. The Criminal in Chief AKA Individual #1 has been impeached, his charity has been shuttered so he can't use it as a personal piggy bank, and he has had to pardon Flynn, Stone, and others. I wonder if the Criminal in Chief AKA Captain Catastrophe will be able to say he hasn't been charged a year after he leaves office? The Southern District of New York U.S. Attorney's office, the FBI, and the IRS are looking to cornhole the Criminal in Chief and his Merry Band of Idiots.

---

Un, Trump has NOT pardoned Flynn. Once again, your TDS is showing through.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

Do you think he won't pardon Flynn if he has a chance? The worshiping of the Cult of The Donald is strong with this one.

---

Doesn't matter. You said he has already pardoned Flynn, which he has not. Get your facts straight and stop acting like a seasoned leftist. Leftists have a habit of just making stuff up.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

---

You are a true believer and your tinfoil hat must be large. I think you might be mistaken on the making it up argument because nobody makes stuff up like the Criminal in Chief. Remember this week's comment regarding not wanting to create panic? I'm pretty sure his campaign is based on nothing but creating panic.

1. The Dems will destroy the suburbs
2. Antifa is going to move in next door
3. People of color are going to move to the suburbs destroying your home's value
4. Suburban women beware if the Dems win you won't be safe.
5. Dems will ruin the economy
These are just a few of his hits for just this week. Now who is making stuff up?

---

None of those 5 points is made up. They're all true.

---

Golden One

Let's have a real talk here.

Okay, you clarified you don't really believe #3 is true, so skip it.

#5 It's economic policy. I don't want to focus too hard on this here, though I'm happy to have that discussion. I have to say that when you look at the last 100 years, the economy by virtually every measure has faired better under Democratic administrations than Republicans. But who would be better for the economy today is an opinion I'm happy to agree to disagree on.

#2 I am happy to shut down Antifa. If they are truly Anti-Fascist they should realize by now they are helping the Fascist cause by creating a distraction from the violence perpetrated by Fascists. Violence on either side does no good. Standing up to fascism using passive resistance is great. When some decided that using physical means to "defend" against fascism, that was a slippery slope that should have been obvious where that was going to result. Taking the next step that using violence to defend against ideas that supposedly perpetrate violence is not a tolerable position. IMO, there may be some misguided people who are doing the wrong thing for what they think are the right reasons, but I already saw this in my time at Berkeley. Mostly they are losers who are piggy backing on other's causes to get their own attention. As a liberal they are a thorn in my side. The bottom line is they are hard to catch and wipe out. If these types were so easy to catch there would be no Fa for them to be Anti in the first place.

But their influence and effect has always been greatly exaggerated. Antifa never has and never will be a significant threat to suburbs. They are pilot fish and their host has no intention of leaving the city.

But 1, 4, and to a large extent 2 are all the same issue. C'mon man. Your whole life when politicians have tried to create this fear of the big city coming with their violent ways, when has that ever actually happened? You know it hasn't. People in urban areas do not want to invade non-urban areas.

Both urban and non-urban people need to respect the fact that they are different and have different priorities. There is clear data on the differences. People in urban areas like lots of stimuli. They like new experiences. They like living with people who are different. They like things changing all the time. They find that interesting. They like (or are least tolerate) high population density. They like loud, noisy lives. They are willing to accept the drawbacks that come with that to have more choices and experiences every day. People in non-urban areas are more conservative, not necessarily politically (though that tends to be the case). They like quiet. They like to be in control of their experiences. They like to see fewer people. They like things cleaner and neater. They like their life tomorrow to be the same as their life today. They are willing to give up choices to have that.

Both are okay. Neither wants to live like the other. Neither wants to live where the other lives. Neither is coming to the other or threatening the other. Neither is asking the other to live like they do. We need to stop acting like anyone is doing this.

I am a big states and local rights guy. The worst thing that ever happened is primarily the Southern states co-opting the concept of states rights to argue for their right to keep slaves, have segregation, etc. The bottom line is that our country is designed with a clear demarcation of powers. Individual rights are set forth in the Constitution and the federal government has the responsibility to enforce those rights. The federal government also has the job of governing national issues. Local issues should be managed locally. The idea that this is a Democratic or Republican issue is just incorrect. Unfortunately both sides feel the need to interfere in local issues of others far too much. (And if you can't admit the Republicans do this, you aren't being honest with yourself).

People who choose to move from urban areas to non-urban areas are doing so because they want to join that lifestyle. They may be gay. They may be liberal. They may be People of Color. But they want that life. They don't want to ruin that life. They are making a choice. No one is coming to get the suburbs. No one is transporting the protests in a couple blocks of Portland to Corvallis. There is no Democratic policy that you can point to that will do this. There is nothing to fear from the fact that we are over here in our cities living how we want to live. You don't need to join us and we aren't joining you.

---

Oak, most of what you say is reasonable, and I agree with it. However, in St. Louis the anarchists did go into the suburbs to invade and damage the property of a middle-aged couple who saw fit to defend themselves with firearms. The couple, ironically, were charged with felonies although they harmed no one. So, I'm not convinced that the suburbs are out of bounds for the anarchists and domestic terrorists. The main Democratic policy I can point to that could encourage this migration to the suburbs is the mere fact that Democrat mayors and governors have largely looked the other way while these thugs have terrorized their cities. Portland and Seattle are perfect examples, as are Minneapolis and Kenosha.

I agree that the federal government has the job of governing national issues. However, many local governments, especially in California, have seen fit to interfere with some national issues. Take illegal immigration for example. The whole concept of sanctuary cities is an affront to national immigration law. Even our alma mater has seen fit to ignore immigration law and coddle illegals to the extent of providing sanctuary, legal representation, and financial aid. You can't deny that these actions are the exclusive province of Democrats and liberals.

OaktownBear said:

---

I am a big states and local rights guy.

---

States rights is an 18th century concept that should largely be abolished in the 21st century. The 10th Amendment exists purely because Southern states wanted to keep their slaves and in order to get 13 very unique colonies to ratify the Constitution. They very much wanted to be 13 different fiefdoms, but they knew they needed each other to prevent foreign invasions from European powers.

There should be federal standards for public education (including curriculum), abortion legislation, drinking water safety, voting procedures, gun laws, and financial regulations. States rights should be restricted to things like road maintenance, school funding, public parks, and taxation.

I'm sure there's plenty I've missed in both categories.

Todd Ingram said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

I am a big states and local rights guy.

---

States rights is an 18th century concept that should largely be abolished in the 21st century. The 10th Amendment exists purely because Southern states wanted to keep their slaves and in order to get 13 very unique colonies to ratify the Constitution. They very much wanted to be 13 different fiefdoms, but they knew they needed each other to prevent foreign invasions from European powers.

There should be federal standards for public education (including curriculum), abortion legislation, drinking water safety, voting procedures, gun laws, and financial regulations. States rights should be restricted to things like road maintenance, school funding, public parks, and taxation.

I'm sure there's plenty I've missed in both categories.

---

I don't agree. If I accept there should be federal standards for curriculum I need to accept that someone in Alabama gets to help decide how my kid is taught evolution, history, the Civil War, etc. I don't accept that. I am more than willing to let them teach their kids what I believe to be wrong and incorrect in order to ensure that I can teach my kids what I believe to right and correct. Our values are different. They should be allowed theirs and I should be allowed mine.

Gun laws, other than complying with the 2nd amendment, should not be the same where people live in single family dwellings miles away from each other and where people live in high rise apartment buildings with 1000 people living in a square block.

Abortion legislation should comply with the Constitution.

financial regulations, voting procedures, should be nationalized.

A country of 330 million people is far too big to govern on issues where we disagree.

We are very much more citizens of America than citizens of our states compared to the 18th century. That does not mean that local governments should not govern local issues. You'd be hard pressed to find a democratic country of any size that does not give a lot of local control, even those without our history of separate states.

Golden One said:

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calpoly said:

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Golden One said:

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calpoly said:

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Golden One said:

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BearNIt said:

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Golden One said:

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BearNIt said:

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Golden One said:

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BearNIt said:

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BearForce2 said:

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Obama got caught spying on Trump's campaign.

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If Obama broke the law then he should answer for it like the Criminal in Chief should answer for his crimes. After almost 4 years No Drama Obama hasn't been charged with any crimes. The Criminal in Chief AKA Individual #1 has been impeached, his charity has been shuttered so he can't use it as a personal piggy bank, and he has had to pardon Flynn, Stone, and others. I wonder if the Criminal in Chief AKA Captain Catastrophe will be able to say he hasn't been charged a year after he leaves office? The Southern District of New York U.S. Attorney's office, the FBI, and the IRS are looking to cornhole the Criminal in Chief and his Merry Band of Idiots.

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Un, Trump has NOT pardoned Flynn. Once again, your TDS is showing through.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

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Do you think he won't pardon Flynn if he has a chance? The worshiping of the Cult of The Donald is strong with this one.

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Doesn't matter. You said he has already pardoned Flynn, which he has not. Get your facts straight and stop acting like a seasoned leftist. Leftists have a habit of just making stuff up.


Liberalism is a mental illness.

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You are a true believer and your tinfoil hat must be large. I think you might be mistaken on the making it up argument because nobody makes stuff up like the Criminal in Chief. Remember this week's comment regarding not wanting to create panic? I'm pretty sure his campaign is based on nothing but creating panic.

1. The Dems will destroy the suburbs
2. Antifa is going to move in next door
3. People of color are going to move to the suburbs destroying your home's value
4. Suburban women beware if the Dems win you won't be safe.
5. Dems will ruin the economy
These are just a few of his hits for just this week. Now who is making stuff up?

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None of those 5 points is made up. They're all true.

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From the troll of disinformation!

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Love conquers hate.

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Yes it does, I'm glad to see that you agree that we should conquer the tRump crime family.

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If you were to get over your intense hatred of all things Trump, you would be a lot easier to get along with. Love conquers hate.

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I agree, tRump is full of hatred and must be stopped!

tRump prefers supporters that aren't dead, except when it comes to casting a ballot by mail, naturally.

bearister said:

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Man, Ana Navarro is really shytting the bed for Biden with the Latino outreach. Too bad there wasn't already somebody with a proven track record at Latino outreach they could have turned to. But I guess that's what you get when you send a Republican to try to get people of color to vote for you.

In Florida "Latinos" = Descendants of white, wealthy, and/or supporters of the Fulgencio Batista dictatorship in Cuba aka the Top 1% that f@ucked over the proletariat.

tRump = Batista wannabe

Todd Ingram said:

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Golden One said:

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However, in St. Louis the anarchists did go into the suburbs to invade and damage the property of a middle-aged couple who saw fit to defend themselves with firearms.

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I double dog dare you to support this assertion that the McCloskeys had their personal property damaged with actual verifiable facts from a non-right-wing nut job site.

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Wake up from your hibernation. Video of the front of their property on various networks clearly showed that the wrought iron entrance gate to their property was completely smashed and destroyed by the hoodlums. It was after that destruction that the McCloskeys came out with their firearms. What will it take for you Democrats to open your eyes? These are two law abiding citizens who were terrorized by the anarchist thugs that you libs love so much. I wonder how you would react if they showed up in front of your home. No doubt you would welcome them with open arms!

bearister said:

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In Florida "Latinos" = Descendants of white, wealthy, and/or supporters of the Fulgencio Batista dictatorship in Cuba aka the Top 1% that f@ucked over the proletariat.

tRump = Batista wannabe

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To you I guess Fidel Castro is the answer. It appears that's the type of leader you and your anarchist friends want to see takeover the U.S.

bearister said:

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tRump prefers supporters that aren't dead, except when it comes to casting a ballot by mail, naturally.

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Trump supports absentee voting for those registered voters who REQUEST a ballot. Presumably, you have to be alive to request a ballot and provide a signature in your request. Apparently, however, Democrats are too dense to understand the difference between absentee balloting and mass mailing of ballots to everyone, irrespective of whether they are alive or dead. Democrats have a history of catering to dead voters, because they always seem to vote for the Democrats on the ballot..

OaktownBear said:

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Golden One said:

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Oak, most of what you say is reasonable, and I agree with it. However, in St. Louis the anarchists did go into the suburbs

Not suburbs. That is like calling the Upper West Side or Nob Hill the suburbs.

to invade and damage the property of a middle-aged couple

No they didn't. No one set foot on their property. They remained on the street and sidewalks. The street is a private street, so that was trespassing, but they walked in the street they did not damage any homes or any property owned by the McCloskeys or their neighbors. Even in their description of what happened, they said that pointing their guns at the protesters and yelling at them that it was private property and they needed to get out seemed to inflame some of the protesters. By their own account, they escalated the issue. There was zero confrontation with any of the other neighbors.

who saw fit to defend themselves with firearms.

They saw fit to threaten people walking on the street. No one threatened their home.

The couple, ironically, were charged with felonies although they harmed no one.

Lots of people that pull guns on people and threaten them are charged with felonies without harming anyone. By the way the protesters who they threatened harmed no one.

So, I'm not convinced that the suburbs are out of bounds for the anarchists and domestic terrorists.

Not suburbs. This is not just irrelevant for your point. It is entirely relevant to mine. They live in an urban area. That community is willing to tolerate street protests. Given that protesters used the street but did not threaten the houses, the McCloskey's are the one's out of step with the community in which they choose to live. This is not me imposing urban values on non-urban communities. This is you imposing non-urban values on urban communities.

People who live in densely populated areas understand that waiving guns in a large crowd is a stupid thing to do. It creates a high likelihood of significant trouble. We don't do that. If they were that scared, they would go inside, call the police, get their guns and sit in their house out of sight and not create any confrontation unless made necessary by people actually threatening to invade their house. Their actions indicate to me that they did not actually fear the protesters were going to do anything, they just wanted them off their street.


The main Democratic policy I can point to that could encourage this migration to the suburbs is the mere fact that Democrat mayors and governors have largely looked the other way while these thugs have terrorized their cities. Portland and Seattle are perfect examples, as are Minneapolis and Kenosha.

Again - you pushing your views onto the urban area, not the urban area pushing their views on you. The people of Portland are not terrorized and law enforcement is not looking the other way. It is a tiny area where protests are occurring at a time when no one goes there except to protest. Seattle has been having these protests for decades and still people love to live there. What you are not accepting is that the people of Portland and of Seattle and of Oakland and of Berkeley do not agree that an appropriate response to these protests is to sweep the streets with confrontational violence. Some support the protesters. Some believe that experience tells them that such actions by law enforcement causes a lot more damage and problems and prolongs things. You may not agree. But these are local issues and it is for the people of those cities to decide. They are not federal issues. If you do not want protests that have never come to your community to be treated this way, don't vote in local politicians that will adopt those policies. That has nothing to do with Biden who has nothing to do with how your community responds.

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In fact we have the opposite situation here. Trump used federal law enforcement to enforce his own views on Portland. He had every right to protect federal property. He had no right to go outside federal property. The people of Portland have been clear that they overwhelmingly believe Trump's actions predictably escalated the situation. That was not how they wanted their community policed. He then threatened to do the same in other places where they were not welcomed. Including Oakland at a time where there were no protests, peaceful or otherwise. I'll bottom line this for you. My house is completely safe. It would be put in danger if law enforcement used a heavy handed response to protesters. It would really put in danger if federal troops came in. I guarantee you virtually no one, conservative or liberal in Oakland wants that response because it would be stupid.

I agree that the federal government has the job of governing national issues. However, many local governments, especially in California, have seen fit to interfere with some national issues. Take illegal immigration for example. The whole concept of sanctuary cities is an affront to national immigration law. Even our alma mater has seen fit to ignore immigration law and coddle illegals to the extent of providing sanctuary, legal representation, and financial aid. You can't deny that these actions are the exclusive province of Democrats and liberals.

I could get into the weeds of arguing with you on immigration and why the issue isn't as black and white as you present it, but yes, the issues regarding immigration sanctuary citiesare exclusive province of Democrats and liberals. And community after community passing clearly unconstitutional laws against abortion are the exclusive province of Republicans and conservatives. For everything you want to point out that Democrats do on an issue you don't like, I can point to what Republicans do on an issue I don't like.

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It would be nice if your post was accurate, but it isn't. I've lived in St. Louis, and I can tell you that the area of the McCloskey home is about as suburban as one can find in the city of St. Louis. And regarding the property damage, you apparently didn't see on various TV videos that the wrought iron entry gate to the McCloskeys' property was complete smashed and totally destroyed by the anarchist terrorists. It was after this destruction occurred that the McCloskeys came out with their firearms. You should get your information from sources other than MSNBC or CNN, who will never provide coverage for destructive activities by the anarchists. For cryin' out loud in Kenosha, the CNN reporter was talking about how peaceful the protest was while all you could see over his shoulders were 20-ft high flames from the burning buildings immediately behind him. It's called fake news.

You seem like a reasonable guy, but you have been so overcome by Trump Derangement Syndrome that you can't see what's right in front of your eyes.

bearister said:

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I am a big believer in the theory that a past pattern of consistent conduct, good or bad, defines a person and provides a degree of certainty how they will act in a given situation.

That being the case, the McCloskeys have done nothing to shake my confidence in my theory. The McCloskeys are Hall of Fame assh@les and the embodiment of everything people hate about lawyers:

The St. Louis couple charged with waving guns at protesters have a long history of not backing down | Metro | stltoday.com


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/the-st-louis-couple-charged-with-waving-guns-at-protesters-have-a-long-history-of/article_281d9989-373e-53c3-abcb-ecd0225dd287.html





*..and neither of them know how to handle a firearm...and they both look like drunks

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How ironic of you to call anyone else "drunks". I would like to see how you would react if a group on uncontrolled thugs came to your home, destroyed the entrance gate to your property, and threatened you with bodily harm and an invasion of your home. I doubt that you would just sit idly by and claim they're just peacefully protesting. The McCloskeys have been charged only because St. Louis has an overzealous prosecutor who sides with anarchists and domestic terrorists.

Golden One said:

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Todd Ingram said:

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Golden One said:

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However, in St. Louis the anarchists did go into the suburbs to invade and damage the property of a middle-aged couple who saw fit to defend themselves with firearms.

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I double dog dare you to support this assertion that the McCloskeys had their personal property damaged with actual verifiable facts from a non-right-wing nut job site.

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Wake up from your hibernation. Video of the front of their property on various networks clearly showed that the wrought iron entrance gate to their property

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It's a gated community. The gate doesn't belong to that family. The gate is the entrance to all of Portland Place.

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However, a live stream from the front of the march shows that the first protesters walked through an intact gate that was being held open.

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https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53891184

OaktownBear said:

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Todd Ingram said:

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OaktownBear said:

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I am a big states and local rights guy.

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States rights is an 18th century concept that should largely be abolished in the 21st century. The 10th Amendment exists purely because Southern states wanted to keep their slaves and in order to get 13 very unique colonies to ratify the Constitution. They very much wanted to be 13 different fiefdoms, but they knew they needed each other to prevent foreign invasions from European powers.

There should be federal standards for public education (including curriculum), abortion legislation, drinking water safety, voting procedures, gun laws, and financial regulations. States rights should be restricted to things like road maintenance, school funding, public parks, and taxation.

I'm sure there's plenty I've missed in both categories.

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I don't agree. If I accept there should be federal standards for curriculum I need to accept that someone in Alabama gets to help decide how my kid is taught evolution, history, the Civil War, etc.

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Alabama only gets 1/50th of the vote. I think science will win out over the red states and it's important that state funded public education provide facts, not Christian mythology. Just as it's important that students in red states understand that the Civil War was fought because of slavery.

And a well-written Federal law, approved by both houses and signed by the President will recognize that difference. But what it will prevent is people crossing state lines to buy guns that are illegal in the state they liv

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Abortion legislation should comply with the Constitution.

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The Constitution does not address abortion. The Constitution only addresses the right to privacy and in a judgment that was not close and will never be overturned by the Supreme Court, they affirmed 7-2 that the government cannot make abortion illegal in the first trimester.

Period. End of discussion.
https://www.history.com/topics/womens-rights/roe-v-wade

The decision of dividing what the government can do in the 2nd and 3rd trimesters is arbitrary and bad jurisprudence in my view. If they were going to come down affirmatively on it being a violation of privacy in the first trimester, then it's a violation of privacy in all three trimesters unless the federal government passes a law stating otherwise. State governments can't be deciding when it's OK to violate the 14th Amendment.

Frankly, I'm just fine with abortion being completely illegal in the second trimester barring serious birth defects, incest, or a danger to the mother's health. Any woman who is too embarrassed or stupid to go see the doctor after not having her cycle for 3 months has already made the choice to have the child as far as I'm concerned. And that includes rape. You had 3 months to decide. Plenty of families will happily take that child off your hands in legal adoption if you don't want it. But since it addresses the right to privacy, the government has to specifically pass a law setting those standards and then the constitutionality of those standards can be decided by the Supreme Court. But one country, one standard. This is not something that should be different across state lines.

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A country of 330 million people is far too big to govern on issues where we disagree.

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In your ideal USA, slavery would still exist

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We are very much more citizens of America than citizens of our states compared to the 18th century. That does not mean that local governments should not govern local issues. You'd be hard pressed to find a democratic country of any size that does not give a lot of local control, even those without our history of separate states.

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I'll happily accept any examples of democracies where you can show me that gun and abortion laws are different in different parts of that country, other than the United States. But I bet you that I'll have way more democracies on my side than you will on yours.

Not Me - Us said:

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Golden One said:

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Todd Ingram said:

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Golden One said:

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However, in St. Louis the anarchists did go into the suburbs to invade and damage the property of a middle-aged couple who saw fit to defend themselves with firearms.

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I double dog dare you to support this assertion that the McCloskeys had their personal property damaged with actual verifiable facts from a non-right-wing nut job site.

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Wake up from your hibernation. Video of the front of their property on various networks clearly showed that the wrought iron entrance gate to their property

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It's a gated community. The gate doesn't belong to that family. The gate is the entrance to all of Portland Place.

Quote:

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However, a live stream from the front of the march shows that the first protesters walked through an intact gate that was being held open.

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https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53891184

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Wrong! The gate I'm talking about is a pedestrian gate on the walkway leading up to the main entrance of the house. That's the gate that was demolished. At least do your research before you post totally erroneous garbage.

Roxie Richter said:

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Big C said:

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bearister said:

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Next year, Trump will be referring to the others in this picture as suckers... and this time he will be right.

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Latinos have no reason to vote for a party that started the policy of mass deportation and putting people in cages. That party being the Democratic Party.

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That may be, but Trump now leads Biden among Latinos in Florida.