Informal Poll: Will You Take The Vaccine At The First Opportunity?

15,574 Views | 198 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by sycasey
sycasey
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OaktownBear said:

sycasey said:

heartofthebear said:

It's interesting though, that you are clearly emotional about this and focused on it when regular medicine does far more dangerous things. Examples include:
  • Not enough testing to determine a correct diagnosis
  • Chemotherapy--most end up dying
  • Radiation treatment--most end up dying
  • prescription drugs
  • surgeries--many unnecessary and irreversible

Don't you think folks should have an alternative?
People who have chemo end up dying because they HAVE CANCER. That doesn't mean other cancer treatments are better.

I think improvements to people's diets could possibly help with preventing cancer in the first place, so in that sense I'm not against those who advocate for more plant-based diets and away from processed foods, etc. But charlatans like Morse will also suggest his dietary methods as a TREATMENT for someone who already has cancer, and that is dangerously bad advice. If you have cancer, listen to the real doctors.
Just to be clear, he is not only suggesting dietary methods. He is selling products. It is not dangerously bad advice. It is a dangerous con. Hotb is likely giving dangerously bad advice. Morse is knowingly taking advantage of desperate people to bilk them of their money.
That is also true. I was focusing strictly on his "medical" advice, but the fact that he also sells his own products should be a major red flag for anyone.
OaktownBear
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sycasey said:

OaktownBear said:

sycasey said:

heartofthebear said:

It's interesting though, that you are clearly emotional about this and focused on it when regular medicine does far more dangerous things. Examples include:
  • Not enough testing to determine a correct diagnosis
  • Chemotherapy--most end up dying
  • Radiation treatment--most end up dying
  • prescription drugs
  • surgeries--many unnecessary and irreversible

Don't you think folks should have an alternative?
People who have chemo end up dying because they HAVE CANCER. That doesn't mean other cancer treatments are better.

I think improvements to people's diets could possibly help with preventing cancer in the first place, so in that sense I'm not against those who advocate for more plant-based diets and away from processed foods, etc. But charlatans like Morse will also suggest his dietary methods as a TREATMENT for someone who already has cancer, and that is dangerously bad advice. If you have cancer, listen to the real doctors.
Just to be clear, he is not only suggesting dietary methods. He is selling products. It is not dangerously bad advice. It is a dangerous con. Hotb is likely giving dangerously bad advice. Morse is knowingly taking advantage of desperate people to bilk them of their money.
That is also true. I was focusing strictly on his "medical" advice, but the fact that he also sells his own products should be a major red flag for anyone.
Yes, I love the pitch. Doctors and the pharmaceutical industry are just trying to make money off of you. What you need is Dr. Morse's miracle tincture.
calbear93
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I am getting my vaccination at the first opportunity I get, but I am also willing to let those who are more at risk get it first.

There is a risk to everything. What is clear is the dangers of COVID-19. So, I am willing to take the risk in the hopes of getting something closer to how things were before.
sycasey
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heartofthebear said:

Most of my information comes from Robert Morse (I am referring to his book not his videos), Colin Campbell (The China Study) and True North Health Clinic in Santa Rosa in addition to my personal experience, especially since 2015.
So just to prove that I won't crap on every source you bring up, I looked at some of this.

T. Colin Campbell seems pretty reputable and I won't dispute his findings. I will note that (AFAIK) he is advocating plant-based whole foods as a way of preventing disease, not as an after-the-fact treatment for it. As I noted earlier, I have no problem with that. I think there is a lot of interesting research about how the typical modern diet doesn't totally suit us.

True North Health Clinic has some stuff going on that I find a bit fishy. For example, their main founder, Dr. Alan Goldhamer, is a real doctor, but his real doctorate is in chiropractic, not medicine or nutrition or biology or anything. He, like Morse, also claims to be a "naturopathic" doctor. I don't accept that as a real doctorate. However, as far as I can tell they don't give out the same kind of dangerous advice to cancer patients and new mothers that Morse does, so if people wanna pay them $150 to $400 bucks a day to stay at their clinic for treatments that may or may not be effective they can knock themselves out.

Morse is still a con artist.
Anarchistbear
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Hotb is a complete moron. He makes me long for more Bear Force and H2P. At least they are entertaining without the self- righteous ignorance leavened with self- righteous earnestness. He's a SantaCruz version of a Holocaust Denier
sycasey
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Anarchistbear said:

Hotb is a complete moron. He makes me long for more Bear Force and H2P. At least they are entertaining without the self- righteous ignorance leavened with self- righteous earnestness. He's a SantaCruz version of a Holocaust Denier
People like this do me a service: they help me keep up on being able to recognize bulls*** even when it's coming from those who otherwise align with me politically. It's a good exercise.

Anti-vaxxer nonsense (which HOTB is also edging perilously close to) does the same thing.
OaktownBear
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sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

Hotb is a complete moron. He makes me long for more Bear Force and H2P. At least they are entertaining without the self- righteous ignorance leavened with self- righteous earnestness. He's a SantaCruz version of a Holocaust Denier
People like this do me a service: they help me keep up on being able to recognize bulls*** even when it's coming from those who otherwise align with me politically. It's a good exercise.

Anti-vaxxer nonsense (which HOTB is also edging perilously close to) does the same thing.
Yeah, but it doesn't do much for your internet history when you try to research their claims.
Anarchistbear
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sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

Hotb is a complete moron. He makes me long for more Bear Force and H2P. At least they are entertaining without the self- righteous ignorance leavened with self- righteous earnestness. He's a SantaCruz version of a Holocaust Denier
People like this do me a service: they help me keep up on being able to recognize bulls*** even when it's coming from those who otherwise align with me politically. It's a good exercise.

Anti-vaxxer nonsense (which HOTB is also edging perilously close to) does the same thing.


Why don't you report him to the mods for spreading disinformation? Isn't that your thing?
sycasey
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Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

Hotb is a complete moron. He makes me long for more Bear Force and H2P. At least they are entertaining without the self- righteous ignorance leavened with self- righteous earnestness. He's a SantaCruz version of a Holocaust Denier
People like this do me a service: they help me keep up on being able to recognize bulls*** even when it's coming from those who otherwise align with me politically. It's a good exercise.

Anti-vaxxer nonsense (which HOTB is also edging perilously close to) does the same thing.
Why don't you report him to the mods for spreading disinformation? Isn't that your thing?
If he started a single thread just to post Twitter links over and over that repeat the same bulls*** then I would ask for that thread to be closed. In this thread he's engaging in a dialogue with other folks. I don't want to shut that down, even if he is talking a lot of nonsense.

I think YouTube probably should pull down "Dr." Robert Morse's videos, particularly the ones where he tells mothers to feed their babies fruit smoothies instead of breastmilk or real formula.
Anarchistbear
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sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

Hotb is a complete moron. He makes me long for more Bear Force and H2P. At least they are entertaining without the self- righteous ignorance leavened with self- righteous earnestness. He's a SantaCruz version of a Holocaust Denier
People like this do me a service: they help me keep up on being able to recognize bulls*** even when it's coming from those who otherwise align with me politically. It's a good exercise.

Anti-vaxxer nonsense (which HOTB is also edging perilously close to) does the same thing.
Why don't you report him to the mods for spreading disinformation? Isn't that your thing?
If he started a single thread just to post Twitter links over and over that repeat the same bulls*** then I would ask for that thread to be closed. In this thread he's engaging in a dialogue with other folks. I don't want to shut that down, even if he is talking a lot of nonsense.

I think YouTube probably should pull down "Dr." Robert Morse's videos, particularly the ones where he tells mothers to feed their babies fruit smoothies instead of breastmilk or real formula.


You're being disengenuous. At any rate none of it should be shut down- here or YouTube. People can make what they want of information.
sycasey
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Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

Hotb is a complete moron. He makes me long for more Bear Force and H2P. At least they are entertaining without the self- righteous ignorance leavened with self- righteous earnestness. He's a SantaCruz version of a Holocaust Denier
People like this do me a service: they help me keep up on being able to recognize bulls*** even when it's coming from those who otherwise align with me politically. It's a good exercise.

Anti-vaxxer nonsense (which HOTB is also edging perilously close to) does the same thing.
Why don't you report him to the mods for spreading disinformation? Isn't that your thing?
If he started a single thread just to post Twitter links over and over that repeat the same bulls*** then I would ask for that thread to be closed. In this thread he's engaging in a dialogue with other folks. I don't want to shut that down, even if he is talking a lot of nonsense.

I think YouTube probably should pull down "Dr." Robert Morse's videos, particularly the ones where he tells mothers to feed their babies fruit smoothies instead of breastmilk or real formula.


You're being disengenuous. At any rate none of it should be shut down- here or YouTube. People can make what they want of information.

I laid out my standard. When something else meets it you can call me disingenuous, not before.

I think my prior history of posting on this board shows I am not afraid to engage with people I disagree with.
Kaworu
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sycasey said:


I think my prior history of posting on this board shows I am not afraid to engage with people I disagree with.
https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/98523/replies/1810038
Kaworu
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Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

Hotb is a complete moron. He makes me long for more Bear Force and H2P. At least they are entertaining without the self- righteous ignorance leavened with self- righteous earnestness. He's a SantaCruz version of a Holocaust Denier
People like this do me a service: they help me keep up on being able to recognize bulls*** even when it's coming from those who otherwise align with me politically. It's a good exercise.

Anti-vaxxer nonsense (which HOTB is also edging perilously close to) does the same thing.
Why don't you report him to the mods for spreading disinformation? Isn't that your thing?
LOL
Anarchistbear
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sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

Hotb is a complete moron. He makes me long for more Bear Force and H2P. At least they are entertaining without the self- righteous ignorance leavened with self- righteous earnestness. He's a SantaCruz version of a Holocaust Denier
People like this do me a service: they help me keep up on being able to recognize bulls*** even when it's coming from those who otherwise align with me politically. It's a good exercise.

Anti-vaxxer nonsense (which HOTB is also edging perilously close to) does the same thing.
Why don't you report him to the mods for spreading disinformation? Isn't that your thing?
If he started a single thread just to post Twitter links over and over that repeat the same bulls*** then I would ask for that thread to be closed. In this thread he's engaging in a dialogue with other folks. I don't want to shut that down, even if he is talking a lot of nonsense.

I think YouTube probably should pull down "Dr." Robert Morse's videos, particularly the ones where he tells mothers to feed their babies fruit smoothies instead of breastmilk or real formula.


You're being disengenuous. At any rate none of it should be shut down- here or YouTube. People can make what they want of information.

I laid out my standard. When something else meets it you can call me disingenuous, not before.

I think my prior history of posting on this board shows I am not afraid to engage with people I disagree with.


I think your standard is full of s$it. Possibly, you are as well. There is no reason to invent convoluted excuses for being small minded.
sycasey
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Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

sycasey said:

Anarchistbear said:

Hotb is a complete moron. He makes me long for more Bear Force and H2P. At least they are entertaining without the self- righteous ignorance leavened with self- righteous earnestness. He's a SantaCruz version of a Holocaust Denier
People like this do me a service: they help me keep up on being able to recognize bulls*** even when it's coming from those who otherwise align with me politically. It's a good exercise.

Anti-vaxxer nonsense (which HOTB is also edging perilously close to) does the same thing.
Why don't you report him to the mods for spreading disinformation? Isn't that your thing?
If he started a single thread just to post Twitter links over and over that repeat the same bulls*** then I would ask for that thread to be closed. In this thread he's engaging in a dialogue with other folks. I don't want to shut that down, even if he is talking a lot of nonsense.

I think YouTube probably should pull down "Dr." Robert Morse's videos, particularly the ones where he tells mothers to feed their babies fruit smoothies instead of breastmilk or real formula.


You're being disengenuous. At any rate none of it should be shut down- here or YouTube. People can make what they want of information.

I laid out my standard. When something else meets it you can call me disingenuous, not before.

I think my prior history of posting on this board shows I am not afraid to engage with people I disagree with.


I think your standard is full of s$it. Possibly, you are as well. There is no reason to invent convoluted excuses for being small minded.

Okay.
sycasey
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Kaworu said:

sycasey said:


I think my prior history of posting on this board shows I am not afraid to engage with people I disagree with.
https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/98523/replies/1810038

You're right, I did go back on that. I have since tried to engage with you seriously.

Perhaps I should live up to AnarchistBear's vision of me and just call for you to be banned. Somehow despite my unforgivably censorious ways, I haven't.
oski003
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oskidunker
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Well lets see how the Brits do.
Go Bears!
oski003
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oskidunker said:

Well lets see how the Brits do.


They arent doing very well.

UK's equivalence of FDA now recommends vaccine "should only be carried out in facilities where resuscitation measures are available." I hope all Walgreens and CVS pharmacies carry a code cart if they are going to administer Pfizer/Moderna

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/09/health/covid-vaccine-allergies-health-workers-uk-intl-gbr/index.html?utm_content=2020-12-09T13%3A30%3A11&utm_source=twCNNi&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social

Also the onus is now on the pharmacist/healthcare workers to decide on whether person is highly allergic/or on immunocompromised medication. It's up to the administer to decide. If something fails who do you think pfizer will point the finger at?
BearsWiin
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oski003 said:

oskidunker said:

Well lets see how the Brits do.


They arent doing very well.

UK's equivalence of FDA now recommends vaccine "should only be carried out in facilities where resuscitation measures are available." I hope all Walgreens and CVS pharmacies carry a code cart if they are going to administer Pfizer/Moderna

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/09/health/covid-vaccine-allergies-health-workers-uk-intl-gbr/index.html?utm_content=2020-12-09T13%3A30%3A11&utm_source=twCNNi&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social

Also the onus is now on the pharmacist/healthcare workers to decide on whether person is highly allergic/or on immunocompromised medication. It's up to the administer to decide. If something fails who do you think pfizer will point the finger at?
two health care workers experienced symptoms after receiving a shot the day before

Why would anybody want to hang out at the Walgreens/CVS overnight? If you have an anaphylactoid reaction the next day, you probably have time to go to the ER
smh
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gladly, once seniors qualify # we should live so long
muting 174 handles, turnaround is fair play
concordtom
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This is precisely why I am hesitant to take a vaccine at this time!

White House chief of staff Mark Meadows hinted to FDA's commissioner Stephen Hahn on a phone call Friday that his job security might be in jeopardy as he pushed the FDA chief to approve Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine by the end of the day, according to two sources familiar with the call.




For Trump - all he cares about it getting credit for the vaccine. He will do whatever it takes for himself: lie, cheat, steal, cut corners, let others die.

Whatever Trump does, I do the opposite.
Anarchistbear
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concordtom said:

This is precisely why I am hesitant to take a vaccine at this time!

White House chief of staff Mark Meadows hinted to FDA's commissioner Stephen Hahn on a phone call Friday that his job security might be in jeopardy as he pushed the FDA chief to approve Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine by the end of the day, according to two sources familiar with the call.




For Trump - all he cares about it getting credit for the vaccine. He will do whatever it takes for himself: lie, cheat, steal, cut corners, let others die.

Whatever Trump does, I do the opposite.


Trump is not seeking professional help.

BearNIt
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I will be taking the vaccine in the next two days because of First Responder status. I will try to post a day to day update of my experiences.
AunBear89
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Thanks for reporting and for working the front lines.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
B.A. Bearacus
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BearNit, we all thank you. Stay strong.
BearNIt
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I'm scheduled to get the vaccine tomorrow at 0630. I will let you know how it goes.
dimitrig
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BearNIt said:

I'm scheduled to get the vaccine tomorrow at 0630. I will let you know how it goes.

After you have been vaccinated will you alter your personal behavior (not work behavior) assuming you are immune or will you still be cautious because the vaccine may not be 100% effective?

Also, is it voluntary or mandatory for you to be vaccinated?

BearNIt
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dimitrig said:

BearNIt said:

I'm scheduled to get the vaccine tomorrow at 0630. I will let you know how it goes.

After you have been vaccinated will you alter your personal behavior (not work behavior) assuming you are immune or will you still be cautious because the vaccine may not be 100% effective?

Also, is it voluntary or mandatory for you to be vaccinated?


I've been giving this some thought and my feelings are that I will still wear a mask and social distance when appropriate, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not thinking about seeing my college roommate, two dear friends from Cal and their youngest who is my goddaughter whose graduation and birthday I missed. I will likely wait two weeks after I receive the 2nd dose to make a final decision but at this point I want to see where the country, state, counties, and cities are in 5-6 weeks and make an informed decision.

At my facility they asked who wanted to take the vaccine and it is about 40/60 between those who want to take the vaccine versus those who do not want to take it now and rather wait. I volunteered to take it because I have an elderly parent who lives alone, is in her mid 80s, and needs to be checked on. I along with my siblings who are also in medicine have decided to take the vaccination to keep our elderly parent safe until she can get the vaccine.

Over the last few weeks I have seen a number of my colleagues test positive for COVID. We have been short of staff which causes even more stress on those who remain. It also means that we have to balance the creation of more beds and the staffing needs to man those beds.
dimitrig
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BearNIt said:

dimitrig said:

BearNIt said:

I'm scheduled to get the vaccine tomorrow at 0630. I will let you know how it goes.

After you have been vaccinated will you alter your personal behavior (not work behavior) assuming you are immune or will you still be cautious because the vaccine may not be 100% effective?

Also, is it voluntary or mandatory for you to be vaccinated?


I've been giving this some thought and my feelings are that I will still wear a mask and social distance when appropriate, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not thinking about seeing my college roommate, two dear friends from Cal and their youngest who is my goddaughter whose graduation and birthday I missed. I will likely wait two weeks after I receive the 2nd dose to make a final decision but at this point I want to see where the country, state, counties, and cities are in 5-6 weeks and make an informed decision.

At my facility they asked who wanted to take the vaccine and it is about 40/60 between those who want to take the vaccine versus those who do not want to take it now and rather wait. I volunteered to take it because I have an elderly parent who lives alone, is in her mid 80s, and needs to be checked on. I along with my siblings who are also in medicine have decided to take the vaccination to keep our elderly parent safe until she can get the vaccine.

Over the last few weeks I have seen a number of my colleagues test positive for COVID. We have been short of staff which causes even more stress on those who remain. It also means that we have to balance the creation of more beds and the staffing needs to man those beds.

Thanks for the candid response.

It is interesting that even 60% of frontline medical workers (at least at one facility) decided to pass on the vaccine.


oskidunker
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Do you work in a hospital or perhaps an elderly care facility? My wife works at Seton Hospital in Daly City and almost everyone asked has signed up to get the vaccine starting Tomorrow.
Go Bears!
BearNIt
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oskidunker said:

Do you work in a hospital or perhaps an elderly care facility? My wife works at Seton Hospital in Daly City and almost everyone asked has signed up to get the vaccine starting Tomorrow.
I work in a large hospital and in my department, the split was 40/60. When I left this morning there was a lot of discussion about who was going to get the vaccine versus who wasn't. I got the vaccine today and it was like getting the flu vaccine.
sycasey
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It's a little depressing to me that only 40% of people in an actual hospital want to get vaccinated. Do you know why the reluctance?
BearNIt
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sycasey said:

It's a little depressing to me that only 40% of people in an actual hospital want to get vaccinated. Do you know why the reluctance?
There is some resistance due to Captain Catastrophe and his approach to the pandemic. At first, he denied that the virus was even real and that has influenced some people. Next, there are the historical experiences that some groups have had with the scientific community such as Tuskegee and the syphilis experiment. There are also people guided by their political affiliation. Finally, there are people who want to wait and see if there are any adverse reactions experienced by those who received the vaccine. These are the types of discussions that I have had with various staff members.
BearNIt
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I received the injection in the morning and have had no allergic reactions, no headaches, and no fever. The only thing that I noticed was a little tenderness at the injection site. The tenderness at the injection site is the same as when you get the flu shot.
 
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