Please post your decision and your reasoning.

LMK5 said:

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Please post your decision and your reasoning.

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No. With all the corners being cut to get vaccines out, I'll watch to see what happens to a few million guinea pigs first.

I have arthritis and thus a compromised immune system due to my regular meds. So taking the vaccine as soon as possible cuts both ways. Will wait to see what my doctors say. BTW, I still have no consensus on even taking a flu shot for this year.

LMK5 said:

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Please post your decision and your reasoning.

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I will take it after I have sufficient time to see if it kills helltopay1 or grows a protuberance from the top of his head.

LMK5 said:

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Please post your decision and your reasoning.

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Why would I take a vaccine for something that disappeared on November 4? That's what all you dipshyte Trumpkins kept telling us.

More importantly: why would you take it? Don't you believe your Orange messiah anymore?

Yes. Will take it asap. Am over 65. Want to travel again and go to Cal games.hopefully I can get it before April. Have a low lung capacity. Not sure that will make any difference but hopeful.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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LMK5 said:

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Please post your decision and your reasoning.

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No. With all the corners being cut to get vaccines out, I'll watch to see what happens to a few million guinea pigs first.

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Fauci and others have said no corners have been cut. Fauci said the process has been "solid." Does that affect your decision?

I will try to be first in line when it is time for my demographic. Heck, I may try a chat-and-cut*.




* been slow-binge-watching "curb your enthusiasm" and that was on the episode i watched last night!

Based on results to date, I haven't seen any reason not to take the vaccines, when they are readily available for someone like me (young, healthy, no known comorbidities, not an essential worker).

I have never gotten the flu in my life, but got a flu shot last week which I now do yearly to prevent unnecessary spread of the seasonal flu.

From what I have heard and read, mRNA based vaccines should be fairly safe as a class of vaccines with the bigger question mark around long-term effectiveness rather than safety.

I don't know about "first opportunity" for the vaccine like lining up overnight for concert tickets.

But yeah in fairly short order when available. I am not an essential worker, I work at home, and my family are pretty much 100% locked down hermit-style. Walks/bike-rides only in the deserted Presidio area of SF where I live. Food/shopping all online and delivered. No physical meeting with friends and neighbors. Always wear a mask. Try to stay 30 feet distant, not 6, when talking with someone (and only outside).

Given that, it seems a little selfish to try to jump any line to get the vaccine. Essential workers and other crucial and/or at-risk folks first.

But yeah in general, right away after that - definitely taking the vaccine if it appears to have the scientific consensus behind it. It's always a risk, and it won't guarantee we won't get Covid. We'll continue to stay quarantined even after vaccinating. But if it reduces transmission rates/loads etc., then the more people that take it (and the flu vaccine) the better in terms of fighting the disease nationwide and keeping our medical workers and facilities from breaking down.

I'm afraid, however, that it will become a stupid political issue and huge swathes of people refuse to take it as has happened with wearing masks. I have friends in the (non-urban) midwest, plains states, Texas and the south that have horror stories about the sheer near-violent hostility they encounter regularly for themselves wearing a mask (not even asking others to do so). Afraid a bunch of anti-vaxxers are going to make life hell on everyone.

OneKeg said:

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I don't know about "first opportunity" for the vaccine like lining up overnight for concert tickets.

But yeah in fairly short order when available. I am not an essential worker, I work at home, and my family are pretty much 100% locked down hermit-style. Walks/bike-rides only in the deserted Presidio area of SF where I live. Food/shopping all online and delivered. No physical meeting with friends and neighbors. Always wear a mask. Try to stay 30 feet distant, not 6, when talking with someone (and only outside).

Given that, it seems a little selfish to try to jump any line to get the vaccine. Essential workers and other crucial and/or at-risk folks first.

But yeah in general, right away after that - definitely taking the vaccine if it appears to have the scientific consensus behind it. It's always a risk, and it won't guarantee we won't get Covid. We'll continue to stay quarantined even after vaccinating. But if it reduces transmission rates/loads etc., then the more people that take it (and the flu vaccine) the better in terms of fighting the disease nationwide and keeping our medical workers and facilities from breaking down.

I'm afraid, however, that it will become a stupid political issue and huge swathes of people refuse to take it as has happened with wearing masks. I have friends in the (non-urban) midwest, plains states, Texas and the south that have horror stories about the sheer near-violent hostility they encounter regularly for themselves wearing a mask (not even asking others to do so). Afraid a bunch of anti-vaxxers are going to make life hell on everyone.

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Interesting. All the stupid people may be weeded out.

oskidunker said:

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OneKeg said:

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I don't know about "first opportunity" for the vaccine like lining up overnight for concert tickets.

But yeah in fairly short order when available. I am not an essential worker, I work at home, and my family are pretty much 100% locked down hermit-style. Walks/bike-rides only in the deserted Presidio area of SF where I live. Food/shopping all online and delivered. No physical meeting with friends and neighbors. Always wear a mask. Try to stay 30 feet distant, not 6, when talking with someone (and only outside).

Given that, it seems a little selfish to try to jump any line to get the vaccine. Essential workers and other crucial and/or at-risk folks first.

But yeah in general, right away after that - definitely taking the vaccine if it appears to have the scientific consensus behind it. It's always a risk, and it won't guarantee we won't get Covid. We'll continue to stay quarantined even after vaccinating. But if it reduces transmission rates/loads etc., then the more people that take it (and the flu vaccine) the better in terms of fighting the disease nationwide and keeping our medical workers and facilities from breaking down.

I'm afraid, however, that it will become a stupid political issue and huge swathes of people refuse to take it as has happened with wearing masks. I have friends in the (non-urban) midwest, plains states, Texas and the south that have horror stories about the sheer near-violent hostility they encounter regularly for themselves wearing a mask (not even asking others to do so). Afraid a bunch of anti-vaxxers are going to make life hell on everyone.

---

Interesting. All the stupid people may be weeded out.

---

Problem is, like wearing masks, you don't take vaccines just to protect yourself. You may still get the disease if you take the vaccine, and you may never get it or be asymptomatic if you don't.

But for non-linear/exponential proliferation phenomena like highly-infectious diseases, reducing the the odds of transmission just a few percentage points can be the difference between the disease slowly going away and the disease skyrocketing across large parts of the country, even for those who do wear masks and take the vaccine. It's so important for everyone that everyone be on-board. So a-holes that have made masks a political issue are endangering all of us, not just themselves (to be clear I am not advocating threatening them like my friends got threatened, and it wouldn't change their minds anyway).

Edited to add:
I have a sinking feeling it's going to be the same with vaccines - that many refuse to take it for political reasons. And then use google to find some contrarian scientist to rationalize the anti-vax / anti-mask view they were already planning on holding (on this board, these posts often say "I dare you to read this" or some such). Or use the fact that science is always a work in progress and it's possible for Dr. Fauci or any other scientific expert to be making a best effort but change guidance based on new information along the way as justification to dismiss or cast doubt on conclusions that most experts have now come to. And instead follow signals based on their chosen political leaders, or news sources, or radio personalities, or the twittersphere. Basically working backwards to justify their refusal to wear a mask or vaccinate. And in so doing, endanger everybody, not just themselves.

If it becomes political, I'm hopeful that "those" people will take the vaccine and give Trump all the credit for it.

They will virtue signal their innoculation. Of course they will still ridicule people who wear masks or take precautions for being "afraid" while proudly proclaiming that they bravely went under the needle. Maybe we need AOC or Ilhan Omar to tell people that the Vaccine is dangerous and scary to provide extra motivation. They can wink to let all of us normal people know what they are doing.

I'm fine with that if that's what it takes to gets idiots to do the right thing.

Speaking of "those" people, my in-laws, who ridiculed my family for wearing masks outdoors this weekend, have let us know that they will be first in line (maskless no doubt) when a vaccine is available to them.

OneKeg said:

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oskidunker said:

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OneKeg said:

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I don't know about "first opportunity" for the vaccine like lining up overnight for concert tickets.

But yeah in fairly short order when available. I am not an essential worker, I work at home, and my family are pretty much 100% locked down hermit-style. Walks/bike-rides only in the deserted Presidio area of SF where I live. Food/shopping all online and delivered. No physical meeting with friends and neighbors. Always wear a mask. Try to stay 30 feet distant, not 6, when talking with someone (and only outside).

Given that, it seems a little selfish to try to jump any line to get the vaccine. Essential workers and other crucial and/or at-risk folks first.

But yeah in general, right away after that - definitely taking the vaccine if it appears to have the scientific consensus behind it. It's always a risk, and it won't guarantee we won't get Covid. We'll continue to stay quarantined even after vaccinating. But if it reduces transmission rates/loads etc., then the more people that take it (and the flu vaccine) the better in terms of fighting the disease nationwide and keeping our medical workers and facilities from breaking down.

I'm afraid, however, that it will become a stupid political issue and huge swathes of people refuse to take it as has happened with wearing masks. I have friends in the (non-urban) midwest, plains states, Texas and the south that have horror stories about the sheer near-violent hostility they encounter regularly for themselves wearing a mask (not even asking others to do so). Afraid a bunch of anti-vaxxers are going to make life hell on everyone.

---

Interesting. All the stupid people may be weeded out.

---

Problem is, like wearing masks, you don't take vaccines just to protect yourself. You may still get the disease if you take the vaccine, and you may never get it or be asymptomatic if you don't.

But for non-linear/exponential proliferation phenomena like highly-infectious diseases, reducing the the odds of transmission just a few percentage points can be the difference between the disease slowly going away and the disease skyrocketing across large parts of the country, even for those who do wear masks and take the vaccine. It's so important for everyone that everyone be on-board. So a-holes that have made masks a political issue are endangering all of us, not just themselves (to be clear I am not advocating threatening them like my friends got threatened, and it wouldn't change their minds anyway).

Edited to add:
I have a sinking feeling it's going to be the same with vaccines - that many refuse to take it for political reasons. And then use google to find some contrarian scientist to rationalize the anti-vax / anti-mask view they were already planning on holding (on this board, these posts often say "I dare you to read this" or some such). Or use the fact that science is always a work in progress and it's possible for Dr. Fauci or any other scientific expert to be making a best effort but change guidance based on new information along the way as justification to dismiss or cast doubt on conclusions that most experts have now come to. And instead follow signals based on their chosen political leaders, or news sources, or radio personalities, or the twittersphere. Basically working backwards to justify their refusal to wear a mask or vaccinate. And in so doing, endanger everybody, not just themselves.

---

There are indications that some large entertainment companies may require vaccines before allowing attendance to large crowd events. Threaten to take away concerts and sports and they'll inject anything.

Get universities on board and vaccinations will happen

No
I don't think the vaccine will solve the problem with the virus.
I have other ways to boost my immune system and avoid getting the disease.

No, but I don't generally get the flu shot or other vaccines either. I trust my immune system.

I did get a tetanus shot (TDAP) a few years back after I was bitten by an animal and I had all of the standard childhood vaccines so I am not opposed in principle to vaccination. If I was traveling somewhere that required me to get vaccinations (for, say, yellow fever or typhoid) then I would.

However, I feel confident that I can avoid COVID-19 by taking precautions and that even if I caught it I would be fine. I feel that is less risky than taking a brand new vaccine created to treat a novel virus on a compressed timeline. If it evolves into something deadlier I might change my mind.

It depends on cost. If they do what they did with the polio vaccine, of course I'll take it. The worst possible outcome is that it doesn't work.

I remain convinced that someone is looking to take advantage of us financially here, as with all things health related in this country in this century.

Kaworu said:

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It depends on cost. If they do what they did with the polio vaccine, of course I'll take it. The worst possible outcome is that it doesn't work.

I remain convinced that someone is looking to take advantage of us financially here, as with all things health related in this country in this century.

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The worst possible outcome is that it kills you.

dimitrig said:

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Kaworu said:

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It depends on cost. If they do what they did with the polio vaccine, of course I'll take it. The worst possible outcome is that it doesn't work.

I remain convinced that someone is looking to take advantage of us financially here, as with all things health related in this country in this century.

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The worst possible outcome is that it kills you.

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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26004568/

Yes, first possible opportunity

Personal safety and civic duty

Kaworu said:

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dimitrig said:

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Kaworu said:

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It depends on cost. If they do what they did with the polio vaccine, of course I'll take it. The worst possible outcome is that it doesn't work.

I remain convinced that someone is looking to take advantage of us financially here, as with all things health related in this country in this century.

---

The worst possible outcome is that it kills you.

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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26004568/

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Yeah, that's based on data from vaccines that are in widespread use and have been for decades.

However, for sake of argument, let's assume you won't die.

Maybe you will just suffer spinal cord damage:

NIH 'Very Concerned' about Serious Side Effect in Coronavirus Vaccine Trial

Maybe cite something written after Sept 15, when more was known about the case, instead of citing preliminary concerns

BearsWiin said:

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Maybe cite something written after Sept 15, when more was known about the case, instead of citing preliminary concerns

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Johnson & Johnson, AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine trials set to resume

How about realizing that there can be some serious side-effects and that drug companies and even regulatory agencies have a lot of incentive to press forward if the vaccines seem "safe enough?"

Look, I am not saying if you get vaccinated something bad will happen to you.

What I am refuting is the idea that the worst that can happen is that it doesn't work.

That's not the worst that can happen.

Wait until the vaccine comes out and see what the lawyers put in the fine print. That will be the worst that can happen. I guarantee you it will not be "nothing."

Vaccines are about balancing risk. Every time my kids got vaccinated, their pediatrician told us about potential adverse effects. Hell, every medication I get from the pharmacy has a sheet about potential adverse effects, some very serious. I still take the meds when my doc prescribes them.

Astrazeneca was also stopped at one point because a second participant developed complications, because of undiagnosed MS. This underscores what we already knew, that not everyone can safely take the vaccines. So it's incumbent for the rest of us to take them, to develop herd immunity and protect those who cannot take them.

In large scale trials, people are going to have problems. Sometimes those problems are linked to the trial treatment, and sometimes those problems are things that would have happened anyway. Each of the three major Phase III trials so far has been large, with no significant problems. I'd gladly take any of the three.

dimitrig said:

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Kaworu said:

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dimitrig said:

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Kaworu said:

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It depends on cost. If they do what they did with the polio vaccine, of course I'll take it. The worst possible outcome is that it doesn't work.

I remain convinced that someone is looking to take advantage of us financially here, as with all things health related in this country in this century.

---

The worst possible outcome is that it kills you.

---

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26004568/

---

Yeah, that's based on data from vaccines that are in widespread use and have been for decades.

However, for sake of argument, let's assume you won't die.

Maybe you will just suffer spinal cord damage:

NIH 'Very Concerned' about Serious Side Effect in Coronavirus Vaccine Trial

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They stopped the trial when that happened.

Kaworu said:

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dimitrig said:

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Kaworu said:

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dimitrig said:

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Kaworu said:

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It depends on cost. If they do what they did with the polio vaccine, of course I'll take it. The worst possible outcome is that it doesn't work.

I remain convinced that someone is looking to take advantage of us financially here, as with all things health related in this country in this century.

---

The worst possible outcome is that it kills you.

---

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26004568/

---

Yeah, that's based on data from vaccines that are in widespread use and have been for decades.

However, for sake of argument, let's assume you won't die.

Maybe you will just suffer spinal cord damage:

NIH 'Very Concerned' about Serious Side Effect in Coronavirus Vaccine Trial

---

They stopped the trial when that happened.

---

There appear to be side effects that are serious enough that trial participants have reported that after people get the second dose of the vaccine they may need to take a day or two off. The side effects that they are reporting consist of fevers, headaches, and generalized body pain. They also indicated that after a day or two they were able to resume normal activities.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/health/covid-vaccine-acip-meeting-discussion/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/health/covid-vaccine-acip-meeting-discussion/index.html

https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2020/07/27/covid-19-vaccines-may-cause-mild-side-effects-experts-say-stressing-need-for-education-not-alarm

One of the issues with getting the vaccines out to everyone is that two of the vaccines require storage at low temperatures. Without the ability to refrigerate a large number of vaccine doses you are limited as to where the vaccine can be delivered and stored safely. We are talking about more than half a billion doses that will need to be stored before they can be used which will create a logistical nightmare. The thought is that this situation will affect rural America mostly.

The 'daunting' hurdles of distributing Covid-19 vaccines in America


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/24/us-coronavirus-vaccine-distribution-challenges?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

OaktownBear said:

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dimitrig said:

---

BearsWiin said:

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Maybe cite something written after Sept 15, when more was known about the case, instead of citing preliminary concerns

---

Johnson & Johnson, AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine trials set to resume

How about realizing that there can be some serious side-effects and that drug companies and even regulatory agencies have a lot of incentive to press forward if the vaccines seem "safe enough?"

Look, I am not saying if you get vaccinated something bad will happen to you.

What I am refuting is the idea that the worst that can happen is that it doesn't work.

That's not the worst that can happen.

Wait until the vaccine comes out and see what the lawyers put in the fine print. That will be the worst that can happen. I guarantee you it will not be "nothing."

---

Human nature is to be more scared of the risk of doing something vs. the risk of doing nothing. That doesn't mean the risk of doing nothing is less. Pretty much every vaccine in exceedingly rare situations can kill you. Polio can kill you.

By all means research this and make the decision that is right for you. As I asked above, all I ask is that you consider that your decision impacts others (something your comments have not acknowledged). So, take it more seriously. Look at the sciences make a REALLY REALLY informed choice. If you then come to the conclusion that the risk of taking the vaccine outweighs the protection you get and the benefit you give to society in the economic and health benefits of reaching herd immunity fine.

I'm just going to say that if the science on this is conclusive and someone doesn't get the vaccine, that is every bit as bad as people who have refused to wear masks.

It is extremely disappointing to me both with respect to masks and with respect to vaccines how Americans have responded with only an analysis (usually faulty) of how it improves their individual odds when to fight this disease properly we need people to respond with how it impacts all of us.

My odds of getting Covid drop significantly if everyone wears a mask, so I wear a mask whether everyone else does or not. As long as the science is appropriate, I will get a vaccine because my odds of getting the disease not only drop significantly from getting it, but it drops significantly when all of us get it.

By the way. Flu shot, same deal. Much less effective vaccine, but on a population basis, more flu shots mean fewer people die.

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I don't think not getting the vaccine is the same thing as not wearing a mask. The reason is that once a vaccine becomes available then those who wish to be protected can take the vaccine and will be protected regardless of what I do or don't do.

As for looking at the science, that is what I am going to do, and it will take years for the data to filter in. If COVID-19 continues to be a public health issue in the US and millions of people have been safely vaccinated then maybe I will change my mind.

The title of this thread asks not if you will ever take the vaccine. The question asked is if one would take it at the first opportunity. The answer to that for me is definitely "No, I will not." That doesn't mean I won't alter my behavior in other ways including wearing a mask.