Jimmy G has a no trade clause, so he would've had to agree to be part of a supposed trade to Detroit (why would he?),71Bear said:The Lions/Jimmy G. stuff is mere speculation. No one here has any idea whether SF offered Garappolo to the Lions. As for Stafford having options, that is not true. Detroit kept him in the loop but did not give him a choice. They took LA's offer because it yielded the additional #1. Of course, that extra #1 came with a huge price - Goff's contract.CALiforniALUM said:
If Goff has an Eli Manning career because he doesn't look the part, I'll enjoy watching him win his next two Super Bowls.
In response to the Lions not wanting Jimmy G and went to the Rams for Goff, another way to look at this is that the Lions may have given Stafford a choice between equal offers. Stafford is well liked in Detroit and there were lots of reports of his cooperation and support for moving on.
Goff trade?
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Last: 2 yr ago by bearister
Hahahaha claiming to have watched Goff play and then come out with gems like this "Stafford is infinitely better than Goff"...SigOtherIsATrojan said:
Had to come in here and laugh at people extrapolating first ballot HOF Peyton Manning's first five years to Jared Goff's. I have watched every single one of Goff's games in college and as a pro.
Slow processor speed. First read guy. Take it away and everything drops off. Mechanics go to crap. Also slow windup. Has talent tho his accuracy is widely overrated. He's also been a turnover factory. Cost the Rams 2-3 games this year because he couldn't protect the football.
Even when he was "good" it was because of his system and surrounding talent. Bye week 2018 he was figured out. Been a bottom tier QB since. Cost them a super bowl by being pathetic. Contract extension was a completely joke I laughed at.
Matthew stafford may not be ARod and you can argue the compensation, but he's infinitely better than Goff.
The first thing you would know (if you actually watch the games and have a good understanding of football) is that Goff is not a 'first read' guy. McVay's system utilizes a lot of slow developing drag and crosser routes that worked when the Rams had passable OL play. This year the Rams OL (and especially their interior OL) was a complete mess, Goff was one of the quickest snap-to-pass QBs in the NFL this season and was still one of the most heavily pressured. Goff might not be a mobile QB but no QB looks good with instant pressure up the middle.
For some reason there's this idea that a star athlete should be able to elevate any team into a contender which is just stupid. Look at Tom Brady last season when the Pats didn't have any talent around him, everyone was saying it was finally the end of Brady and now he's back in the Super Bowl with a talented roster. Goff's contract looked big when they agreed to it but it's not really a massive overpay because it's right in line with what Wentz and Tannehill were getting that same offseason and unlike those guys Goff has led his team to and won a conference championship game
No one was making a Goff = Peyton Manning claim, that was just evidence that even HOF QBs aren't usually elite on their rookie contracts. And here's how "infinitely better" Matt Stafford's career numbers compare to Goff's. Jared has a higher completion %, passer rating, and yards per attempt (and NY/A and ANY/A)
From Detroit's perspective:heartofthebear said:One way to make sense of this trade is that Detroit really wanted Goff. They had a chance to get much better picks from SF as well as Jimmy G. and went with LA instead. Remember LA had no 2021 first round picks to offer Detroit. They had already traded that pick to the Jets.BearSD said:McVay and Snead must really hate Goff, because they gave him the Brock Osweiler treatment.Bearly Clad said:
Even if you're a Goff hater you've gotta admit the Rams just got fleeced. They just got a younger QB on a comparable contract and high quality draft pick ammo.
Four years ago, Houston got out from under Osweiler's contract by sending him plus a 2nd round pick and a 6th rounder to Cleveland in exchange for a low 4th round pick. Houston essentially gave Cleveland a 2nd rounder to get them to take Osweiler's contract.
The Rams-Lions deal is really two trades in one. The first deal is LA sending a 1st and 3rd round pick to Detroit for Stafford, which is in line with other offers Detroit received for Stafford. The second deal is LA sending Goff and another 1st round pick to Detroit just to get the Lions to absorb Goff's contract. It took a 1st rounder to do that, whereas Houston only had to give up a 2nd round pick along with Osweiler, because Goff's contract is so much larger.
Cleveland cut Osweiler a few months after they traded for him, before the start of the regular season. Goff will probably be with the Lions longer than that, though it would be surprising if he is there for more than two years.
Another way to make sense of this trade is that they really really didn't want Jimmy G.
1. Counterintuitively, the fact that the rams first round picks are in 2022 and 2023 is a positive. I think there's a good chance one of those picks is top 5. Stafford gets hurt, McVay gets exposed, lack of OL and other holes not filled, etc. In contrast, 49rs with Stafford are likely to be picking at the very end of the first round so their 2022 and 2023 picks are less valuable.
2. Detroit is rebuilding. If Goff is a complete flop there (which I don't expect), it just helps their rebuild. Worst case scenario is Goff is placeholder qb for 2 years or an expensive backup for part of that time. No matter who their qb is the next 2 years, Detroit is not going to the super bowl. They will be getting younger and the salary cap implications are probably no big deal.
3. I think their are a lot of red flags with the rams in terms of coaching staff turnover, horrible GM decisions, and possibly McVay's ego in dealing with players and staff. Whatever the dynamic is, Brad Holmes knows. So the fact that he's willing to take on Goff says something positive about Goff.
SigOtherIsATrojan said:
Had to come in here and laugh at people extrapolating first ballot HOF Peyton Manning's first five years to Jared Goff's. I have watched every single one of Goff's games in college and as a pro.
Slow processor speed. First read guy. Take it away and everything drops off. Mechanics go to crap. Also slow windup. Has talent tho his accuracy is widely overrated. He's also been a turnover factory. Cost the Rams 2-3 games this year because he couldn't protect the football.
Even when he was "good" it was because of his system and surrounding talent. Bye week 2018 he was figured out. Been a bottom tier QB since. Cost them a super bowl by being pathetic. Contract extension was a completely joke I laughed at.
Matthew stafford may not be ARod and you can argue the compensation, but he's infinitely better than Goff.
I was referring to Eli Manning's first five years, not Peyton's. I know reading is hard for Trojans, but c'mon.
Anyways, here's Peyton's first five years.
Again, a different era. Peyton retired shortly before Goff was drafted.
Bearly Clad said:Hahahaha claiming to have watched Goff play and then come out with gems like this "Stafford is infinitely better than Goff"...SigOtherIsATrojan said:
Had to come in here and laugh at people extrapolating first ballot HOF Peyton Manning's first five years to Jared Goff's. I have watched every single one of Goff's games in college and as a pro.
Slow processor speed. First read guy. Take it away and everything drops off. Mechanics go to crap. Also slow windup. Has talent tho his accuracy is widely overrated. He's also been a turnover factory. Cost the Rams 2-3 games this year because he couldn't protect the football.
Even when he was "good" it was because of his system and surrounding talent. Bye week 2018 he was figured out. Been a bottom tier QB since. Cost them a super bowl by being pathetic. Contract extension was a completely joke I laughed at.
Matthew stafford may not be ARod and you can argue the compensation, but he's infinitely better than Goff.
The first thing you would know (if you actually watch the games and have a good understanding of football) is that Goff is not a 'first read' guy. McVay's system utilizes a lot of slow developing drag and crosser routes that worked when the Rams had passable OL play. This year the Rams OL (and especially their interior OL) was a complete mess, Goff was one of the quickest snap-to-pass QBs in the NFL this season and was still one of the most heavily pressured. Goff might not be a mobile QB but no QB looks good with instant pressure up the middle.
For some reason there's this idea that a star athlete should be able to elevate any team into a contender which is just stupid. Look at Tom Brady last season when the Pats didn't have any talent around him, everyone was saying it was finally the end of Brady and now he's back in the Super Bowl with a talented roster. Goff's contract looked big when they agreed to it but it's not really a massive overpay because it's right in line with what Wentz and Tannehill were getting that same offseason and unlike those guys Goff has led his team to and won a conference championship game
No one was making a Goff = Peyton Manning claim, that was just evidence that even HOF QBs aren't usually elite on their rookie contracts. And here's how "infinitely better" Matt Stafford's career numbers compare to Goff's. Jared has a higher completion %, passer rating, and yards per attempt (and NY/A and ANY/A)
Maybe we should give SigOtherIsATrojan more of a chance in this instance. I mean, as USC wtote the book on producing poor NFL QBs, this poster was forced to become a specialist in the domain.
I've read this article from 2005 a million times.
And it made my glad that the Bucs didn't draft Rodgers. Because Gruden is a micromanager who looks to dominate his QBs. And he saw he couldn't do that with Rodgers. And so Gruden is never satisfied with his QBs.
I get the same sense with McVay.
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2005/04/10/rodgers-performs-for-gruden/
And it made my glad that the Bucs didn't draft Rodgers. Because Gruden is a micromanager who looks to dominate his QBs. And he saw he couldn't do that with Rodgers. And so Gruden is never satisfied with his QBs.
I get the same sense with McVay.
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2005/04/10/rodgers-performs-for-gruden/
Do you have any reasonable rationale why SC which is replete with 5* qb recruits haven't has a sustained serviceable NFL qb since Carson Palmer?SigOtherIsATrojan said:
Had to come in here and laugh at people extrapolating first ballot HOF Peyton Manning's first five years to Jared Goff's. I have watched every single one of Goff's games in college and as a pro.
Slow processor speed. First read guy. Take it away and everything drops off. Mechanics go to crap. Also slow windup. Has talent tho his accuracy is widely overrated. He's also been a turnover factory. Cost the Rams 2-3 games this year because he couldn't protect the football.
Even when he was "good" it was because of his system and surrounding talent. Bye week 2018 he was figured out. Been a bottom tier QB since. Cost them a super bowl by being pathetic. Contract extension was a completely joke I laughed at.
Matthew stafford may not be ARod and you can argue the compensation, but he's infinitely better than Goff.
BearGoggles said:Interesting insight into the Aikman comments. People here have noticed Aikman's harsh comments on Goff - never occurred to me he was parroting feedback from McVay from production meetings.okaydo said:
Like I said way above, it's good to have a media advocate.
It goes back to my earlier point that the larger perception of Goff, particularly in the media, is that he is 100% a McVay creation. And that Goff is his puppet. And that he's playing Madden. And that McVay does all the thinking for him. And that Goff has very little to do with his success (and a lot to do with his failures).
Like I would remember during *several* Sunday night Football games, NBC would shrink the screen and then put McVay in a box on the bottom corner and illustrate how McVay was controlling him.
And, as I'll point out again, Goff was coming from a dire situation of experience-less coaches when he got McVay. McVay did some great things in surrounding him with experience. But the storyline became that Goff was a McVay creation.
And I think McVay was largely responsible for feeding that narrative in the media while publicly downplaying it.
Maybe Goff will fail in Detroit. Who knows? But I don't think he couldn't have lasted in that toxic situation.
Yes. I have watched him. Every pro and college game. He's low football IQ. He played Seattle this year and on a 3rd and 7 in a key moment slid short of the sticks because he didn't know where the marker was. He also threw an interception in the same game without a receiver within 15 yards of the play. He's also led the nfl in TOs last two years. Year 5 in the league. His pocket awareness is beyond nil. Sounds like a guy who is going to get better.
When his coach wasn't telling him where to throw he didn't know what to do.
Yes. Stafford is much better. Let's see teams run cover 0 on Stafford like they did Goof. Goof couldn't hit a hot read to save his life. Not stafford's fault he played on a dysfunctional franchise that has won a single playoff game in 7 decades. They wasted sanders and megatron too.
Goof isn't doing anything in Detroit. They'll draft a QB. He'll likely start, struggle, get benched and then eventually cut and will play out his career as a backup. Which is what he is.
When his coach wasn't telling him where to throw he didn't know what to do.
Yes. Stafford is much better. Let's see teams run cover 0 on Stafford like they did Goof. Goof couldn't hit a hot read to save his life. Not stafford's fault he played on a dysfunctional franchise that has won a single playoff game in 7 decades. They wasted sanders and megatron too.
Goof isn't doing anything in Detroit. They'll draft a QB. He'll likely start, struggle, get benched and then eventually cut and will play out his career as a backup. Which is what he is.
His back foot give up on the game horrific INT he threw down 7 and his multitude of 3 and outs that game were also stellar too.
philbert said:Jimmy G has a no trade clause, so he would've had to agree to be part of a supposed trade to Detroit (why would he?),71Bear said:The Lions/Jimmy G. stuff is mere speculation. No one here has any idea whether SF offered Garappolo to the Lions. As for Stafford having options, that is not true. Detroit kept him in the loop but did not give him a choice. They took LA's offer because it yielded the additional #1. Of course, that extra #1 came with a huge price - Goff's contract.CALiforniALUM said:
If Goff has an Eli Manning career because he doesn't look the part, I'll enjoy watching him win his next two Super Bowls.
In response to the Lions not wanting Jimmy G and went to the Rams for Goff, another way to look at this is that the Lions may have given Stafford a choice between equal offers. Stafford is well liked in Detroit and there were lots of reports of his cooperation and support for moving on.
I would think that restructuring that contract to include guaranteed money for the last two years would help. Niners can cut JG after 6/1 for minimal cap impact if they find another way to get a QB. Not sure he could get the same $$$ if cut that late as most team will have lined up QB by then.
Yea I'm just not sure what world you're living in. If one missed first down in a key situation is your standard for low football IQ then every QB who's ever played is low IQ. Brady forgot what down it was in a one score game this year, no one would argue he's low IQ. Every player who has the ball in their hands will come up short, but your example that he only got 6 yards running on a 3rd and 7 is pretty flimsy.
To be honest you're just talking out your ass. The Dolphins came up with a loaded line cover 0 look and gave the Rams issues and he adjusted to the point where a few weeks later teams had dropped the strategy altogether. You didn't see it against him in the playoffs for a reason.
Goff was also at his best this season when running a tempo offense when he would have least communication with McVay so it's easy to parrot the **** talk you hear about him, but tougher when you try to back it up.
Let me say this again clearly: No QB looks good behind a bad OL. Goff had less time to throw than any QB other than Burrow and he still completed 67% of his passes this season. He went 21 of 27 against the Packers in the playoffs three weeks after thumb surgery
Goff has playoff wins on the road in Seattle and in the Superdome and you're out here acting like he's one of those Sam Darnold or Mark Sanchez type scrubs. I guarantee Goff is still a starter at the end of this contract and McVay and Stafford never make a super bowl together
To be honest you're just talking out your ass. The Dolphins came up with a loaded line cover 0 look and gave the Rams issues and he adjusted to the point where a few weeks later teams had dropped the strategy altogether. You didn't see it against him in the playoffs for a reason.
Goff was also at his best this season when running a tempo offense when he would have least communication with McVay so it's easy to parrot the **** talk you hear about him, but tougher when you try to back it up.
Let me say this again clearly: No QB looks good behind a bad OL. Goff had less time to throw than any QB other than Burrow and he still completed 67% of his passes this season. He went 21 of 27 against the Packers in the playoffs three weeks after thumb surgery
Goff has playoff wins on the road in Seattle and in the Superdome and you're out here acting like he's one of those Sam Darnold or Mark Sanchez type scrubs. I guarantee Goff is still a starter at the end of this contract and McVay and Stafford never make a super bowl together
Yeah right. Your boy Daffy Duck Goof is so good no GM wanted to touch him and rams basically had to send picks to get rid of him. Lot of pundits think it's the worst contract in the NFL with Carson Wentz not far behind.
He's 26 and signed long term. Yet his trade value is a net negative But you're smarter than most GMs. Armchair message board warrior with his guarantees. Detroit will draft a QB. They are not building around Goof. Goof will not flourish playing under a meathead coach like Dan Campbell and lol, having to play cold weather teams (small hands and all).
But Detroit is smart. Take him on and get the extra first rounder.
He's 26 and signed long term. Yet his trade value is a net negative But you're smarter than most GMs. Armchair message board warrior with his guarantees. Detroit will draft a QB. They are not building around Goof. Goof will not flourish playing under a meathead coach like Dan Campbell and lol, having to play cold weather teams (small hands and all).
But Detroit is smart. Take him on and get the extra first rounder.
Tell me again how you're not just talking out your ass?
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2929134-jared-goff-trade-rumors-qb-had-a-market-rams-took-calls-before-stafford-swap
Stafford will be on IR by week 9 unless the Rams make serious upgrades to their lineBearly Clad said:
McVay and Stafford never make a super bowl together
(which they won't, 'cause they're the Rams)
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Was Stafford much better his first 4 years?
The Lions sortof suck. I think Goff will probably take his lumps next year. Hopefully they can upgrade that Oline and WR corp.
burritos said:Do you have any reasonable rationale why SC which is replete with 5* qb recruits haven't has a sustained serviceable NFL qb since Carson Palmer?SigOtherIsATrojan said:
Had to come in here and laugh at people extrapolating first ballot HOF Peyton Manning's first five years to Jared Goff's. I have watched every single one of Goff's games in college and as a pro.
Slow processor speed. First read guy. Take it away and everything drops off. Mechanics go to crap. Also slow windup. Has talent tho his accuracy is widely overrated. He's also been a turnover factory. Cost the Rams 2-3 games this year because he couldn't protect the football.
Even when he was "good" it was because of his system and surrounding talent. Bye week 2018 he was figured out. Been a bottom tier QB since. Cost them a super bowl by being pathetic. Contract extension was a completely joke I laughed at.
Matthew stafford may not be ARod and you can argue the compensation, but he's infinitely better than Goff.
I'll take a shot at it: At SC the QB has 4.5 seconds to throw, looks All World and may even win the Heisman. They then get drafted high in the draft by one of the worst teams in the league where they end up with a bad OL that provides 1.5 to 2 seconds of protection. They are now useless and eventually end up homeless on the beach in SoCal with skateboarders, smoking meth and molesting kids.
When SC Heisman Trophy winner Carson Palmer played for the Raiders, his typical game was : 400 yards; INT at crunch time resulting in a TD and a loss. Palmer was backed up on the Raiders by SC Heisman Trophy winner Matt Leinart. Leinart was even more f@ucking useless than Palmer.
Go Goff!
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Keep quoting the same hack. Like the other poster who keeps showing highlights of Goff's best game as a pro (vs Vikings early 2018). So he had such a great market that the rams decided to not acquire said picks on the open market for Daffy Duck and then just trade for stafford straight up with more draft capital. Peter Schreager I guess is being paid by Goof's agent.
Stafford will end up getting Boy Genius McVay fired from the Rams on his career achievements
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Only Trojan QB's are career backups.SigOtherIsATrojan said:
Yes. I have watched him. Every pro and college game. He's low football IQ. He played Seattle this year and on a 3rd and 7 in a key moment slid short of the sticks because he didn't know where the marker was. He also threw an interception in the same game without a receiver within 15 yards of the play. He's also led the nfl in TOs last two years. Year 5 in the league. His pocket awareness is beyond nil. Sounds like a guy who is going to get better.
When his coach wasn't telling him where to throw he didn't know what to do.
Yes. Stafford is much better. Let's see teams run cover 0 on Stafford like they did Goof. Goof couldn't hit a hot read to save his life. Not stafford's fault he played on a dysfunctional franchise that has won a single playoff game in 7 decades. They wasted sanders and megatron too.
Goof isn't doing anything in Detroit. They'll draft a QB. He'll likely start, struggle, get benched and then eventually cut and will play out his career as a backup. Which is what he is.
Ignore feature is nice. I'm sure some people are using it on me too.
Apparently one of the big problems with Goff/Mcvay is that Goff audibled out of 2 running plays in a game and both plays ending up throwing INTs. LOL. He was barred from audibling again.
Those are interesting perspectives but they are likely not the Lions' perspectives. It is almost universally believed that the 49ers #12 pick this season is more valuable than any a Rams pick a year from now. In other words, I don't think the Lions are going to be picking earlier the next year than they would have this year with the 49ers picks. It's hard to say what would be the case in 2023, which is why that pick is even worse. You have to factor in the opportunity cost of waiting an extra year for your picks. That is why interest is charged on loans. It is the cost of waiting for a return on your investment. The Lions paid one year of interest on their investment compared to what it would have cost them getting the SF picks. Furthermore, this 2021 draft has almost unprecedented depth and talent that is likely to be unmatched for many years. There are probably close to 200 players entering the draft that have a decent chance to see playing time as NFL players next season. That is 6 rounds worth of players out of the 7. The Lions are not likely to have that advantage in 2022 and 2023.BearGoggles said:From Detroit's perspective:heartofthebear said:One way to make sense of this trade is that Detroit really wanted Goff. They had a chance to get much better picks from SF as well as Jimmy G. and went with LA instead. Remember LA had no 2021 first round picks to offer Detroit. They had already traded that pick to the Jets.BearSD said:McVay and Snead must really hate Goff, because they gave him the Brock Osweiler treatment.Bearly Clad said:
Even if you're a Goff hater you've gotta admit the Rams just got fleeced. They just got a younger QB on a comparable contract and high quality draft pick ammo.
Four years ago, Houston got out from under Osweiler's contract by sending him plus a 2nd round pick and a 6th rounder to Cleveland in exchange for a low 4th round pick. Houston essentially gave Cleveland a 2nd rounder to get them to take Osweiler's contract.
The Rams-Lions deal is really two trades in one. The first deal is LA sending a 1st and 3rd round pick to Detroit for Stafford, which is in line with other offers Detroit received for Stafford. The second deal is LA sending Goff and another 1st round pick to Detroit just to get the Lions to absorb Goff's contract. It took a 1st rounder to do that, whereas Houston only had to give up a 2nd round pick along with Osweiler, because Goff's contract is so much larger.
Cleveland cut Osweiler a few months after they traded for him, before the start of the regular season. Goff will probably be with the Lions longer than that, though it would be surprising if he is there for more than two years.
Another way to make sense of this trade is that they really really didn't want Jimmy G.
1. Counterintuitively, the fact that the rams first round picks are in 2022 and 2023 is a positive. I think there's a good chance one of those picks is top 5. Stafford gets hurt, McVay gets exposed, lack of OL and other holes not filled, etc. In contrast, 49rs with Stafford are likely to be picking at the very end of the first round so their 2022 and 2023 picks are less valuable.
2. Detroit is rebuilding. If Goff is a complete flop there (which I don't expect), it just helps their rebuild. Worst case scenario is Goff is placeholder qb for 2 years or an expensive backup for part of that time. No matter who their qb is the next 2 years, Detroit is not going to the super bowl. They will be getting younger and the salary cap implications are probably no big deal.
3. I think their are a lot of red flags with the rams in terms of coaching staff turnover, horrible GM decisions, and possibly McVay's ego in dealing with players and staff. Whatever the dynamic is, Brad Holmes knows. So the fact that he's willing to take on Goff says something positive about Goff.
Your last 2 points I agree with. But that is just agreeing with my point that they liked Goff more than Garrapolo.
I also disagree that, just because the Lions have new decision makers, means they know what they are doing with respect to Goff vs. Garappolo.
heartofthebear said:Those are interesting perspectives but they are likely not the Lions' perspectives. It is almost universally believed that the 49ers #12 pick this season is more valuable than any a Rams pick a year from now. In other words, I don't think the Lions are going to be picking earlier the next year than they would have this year with the 49ers picks. It's hard to say what would be the case in 2023, which is why that pick is even worse. You have to factor in the opportunity cost of waiting an extra year for your picks. That is why interest is charged on loans. It is the cost of waiting for a return on your investment. The Lions paid one year of interest on their investment compared to what it would have cost them getting the SF picks. Furthermore, this 2021 draft has almost unprecedented depth and talent that is likely to be unmatched for many years. There are probably close to 200 players entering the draft that have a decent chance to see playing time as NFL players next season. That is 6 rounds worth of players out of the 7. The Lions are not likely to have that advantage in 2022 and 2023.BearGoggles said:From Detroit's perspective:heartofthebear said:One way to make sense of this trade is that Detroit really wanted Goff. They had a chance to get much better picks from SF as well as Jimmy G. and went with LA instead. Remember LA had no 2021 first round picks to offer Detroit. They had already traded that pick to the Jets.BearSD said:McVay and Snead must really hate Goff, because they gave him the Brock Osweiler treatment.Bearly Clad said:
Even if you're a Goff hater you've gotta admit the Rams just got fleeced. They just got a younger QB on a comparable contract and high quality draft pick ammo.
Four years ago, Houston got out from under Osweiler's contract by sending him plus a 2nd round pick and a 6th rounder to Cleveland in exchange for a low 4th round pick. Houston essentially gave Cleveland a 2nd rounder to get them to take Osweiler's contract.
The Rams-Lions deal is really two trades in one. The first deal is LA sending a 1st and 3rd round pick to Detroit for Stafford, which is in line with other offers Detroit received for Stafford. The second deal is LA sending Goff and another 1st round pick to Detroit just to get the Lions to absorb Goff's contract. It took a 1st rounder to do that, whereas Houston only had to give up a 2nd round pick along with Osweiler, because Goff's contract is so much larger.
Cleveland cut Osweiler a few months after they traded for him, before the start of the regular season. Goff will probably be with the Lions longer than that, though it would be surprising if he is there for more than two years.
Another way to make sense of this trade is that they really really didn't want Jimmy G.
1. Counterintuitively, the fact that the rams first round picks are in 2022 and 2023 is a positive. I think there's a good chance one of those picks is top 5. Stafford gets hurt, McVay gets exposed, lack of OL and other holes not filled, etc. In contrast, 49rs with Stafford are likely to be picking at the very end of the first round so their 2022 and 2023 picks are less valuable.
2. Detroit is rebuilding. If Goff is a complete flop there (which I don't expect), it just helps their rebuild. Worst case scenario is Goff is placeholder qb for 2 years or an expensive backup for part of that time. No matter who their qb is the next 2 years, Detroit is not going to the super bowl. They will be getting younger and the salary cap implications are probably no big deal.
3. I think their are a lot of red flags with the rams in terms of coaching staff turnover, horrible GM decisions, and possibly McVay's ego in dealing with players and staff. Whatever the dynamic is, Brad Holmes knows. So the fact that he's willing to take on Goff says something positive about Goff.
Your last 2 points I agree with. But that is just agreeing with my point that they liked Goff more than Garrapolo.
I also disagree that, just because the Lions have new decision makers, means they know what they are doing with respect to Goff vs. Garappolo.
Reports were that the 49ers only offered 2nd and 3rd rounders (2 each). I don't think that included Garrapolo, likely due to the fact he has a no trade clause and could be cut anyway at virtually no cost. It might make sense for Jimmy G to refuse a trade unless his final 2 years become guaranteed, but at the same time, another team may feel like they could just get him on the open market for less if the 49ers do end up cutting him
2021 draft pics are also more valuable than most years because of the salary cap pressures this year - if a team can get a plug and play starter, that's money saved.
How's this for a trade since the Lions and 49ers have been talking - 49ers give up a few 2nd and 3rd rounders for Goff. Lions have have an even bigger stash of picks to rebuild. Can find a serviceable cheap QB for the short term - they certainly aren't winning much in the near future anyway.
chazzed said:Bearly Clad said:Hahahaha claiming to have watched Goff play and then come out with gems like this "Stafford is infinitely better than Goff"...SigOtherIsATrojan said:
Had to come in here and laugh at people extrapolating first ballot HOF Peyton Manning's first five years to Jared Goff's. I have watched every single one of Goff's games in college and as a pro.
Slow processor speed. First read guy. Take it away and everything drops off. Mechanics go to crap. Also slow windup. Has talent tho his accuracy is widely overrated. He's also been a turnover factory. Cost the Rams 2-3 games this year because he couldn't protect the football.
Even when he was "good" it was because of his system and surrounding talent. Bye week 2018 he was figured out. Been a bottom tier QB since. Cost them a super bowl by being pathetic. Contract extension was a completely joke I laughed at.
Matthew stafford may not be ARod and you can argue the compensation, but he's infinitely better than Goff.
The first thing you would know (if you actually watch the games and have a good understanding of football) is that Goff is not a 'first read' guy. McVay's system utilizes a lot of slow developing drag and crosser routes that worked when the Rams had passable OL play. This year the Rams OL (and especially their interior OL) was a complete mess, Goff was one of the quickest snap-to-pass QBs in the NFL this season and was still one of the most heavily pressured. Goff might not be a mobile QB but no QB looks good with instant pressure up the middle.
For some reason there's this idea that a star athlete should be able to elevate any team into a contender which is just stupid. Look at Tom Brady last season when the Pats didn't have any talent around him, everyone was saying it was finally the end of Brady and now he's back in the Super Bowl with a talented roster. Goff's contract looked big when they agreed to it but it's not really a massive overpay because it's right in line with what Wentz and Tannehill were getting that same offseason and unlike those guys Goff has led his team to and won a conference championship game
No one was making a Goff = Peyton Manning claim, that was just evidence that even HOF QBs aren't usually elite on their rookie contracts. And here's how "infinitely better" Matt Stafford's career numbers compare to Goff's. Jared has a higher completion %, passer rating, and yards per attempt (and NY/A and ANY/A)
Maybe we should give SigOtherIsATrojan more of a chance in this instance. I mean, as USC wtote the book on producing poor NFL QBs, this poster was forced to become a specialist in the domain.
It's the college of Sean Salisbury and Todd Marinovich, and who could forget Mark "Butt Fumble" Sanchez!
I think the 49ers have QB options with more value for the money than Goff.ColoradoBear said:heartofthebear said:Those are interesting perspectives but they are likely not the Lions' perspectives. It is almost universally believed that the 49ers #12 pick this season is more valuable than any a Rams pick a year from now. In other words, I don't think the Lions are going to be picking earlier the next year than they would have this year with the 49ers picks. It's hard to say what would be the case in 2023, which is why that pick is even worse. You have to factor in the opportunity cost of waiting an extra year for your picks. That is why interest is charged on loans. It is the cost of waiting for a return on your investment. The Lions paid one year of interest on their investment compared to what it would have cost them getting the SF picks. Furthermore, this 2021 draft has almost unprecedented depth and talent that is likely to be unmatched for many years. There are probably close to 200 players entering the draft that have a decent chance to see playing time as NFL players next season. That is 6 rounds worth of players out of the 7. The Lions are not likely to have that advantage in 2022 and 2023.BearGoggles said:From Detroit's perspective:heartofthebear said:One way to make sense of this trade is that Detroit really wanted Goff. They had a chance to get much better picks from SF as well as Jimmy G. and went with LA instead. Remember LA had no 2021 first round picks to offer Detroit. They had already traded that pick to the Jets.BearSD said:McVay and Snead must really hate Goff, because they gave him the Brock Osweiler treatment.Bearly Clad said:
Even if you're a Goff hater you've gotta admit the Rams just got fleeced. They just got a younger QB on a comparable contract and high quality draft pick ammo.
Four years ago, Houston got out from under Osweiler's contract by sending him plus a 2nd round pick and a 6th rounder to Cleveland in exchange for a low 4th round pick. Houston essentially gave Cleveland a 2nd rounder to get them to take Osweiler's contract.
The Rams-Lions deal is really two trades in one. The first deal is LA sending a 1st and 3rd round pick to Detroit for Stafford, which is in line with other offers Detroit received for Stafford. The second deal is LA sending Goff and another 1st round pick to Detroit just to get the Lions to absorb Goff's contract. It took a 1st rounder to do that, whereas Houston only had to give up a 2nd round pick along with Osweiler, because Goff's contract is so much larger.
Cleveland cut Osweiler a few months after they traded for him, before the start of the regular season. Goff will probably be with the Lions longer than that, though it would be surprising if he is there for more than two years.
Another way to make sense of this trade is that they really really didn't want Jimmy G.
1. Counterintuitively, the fact that the rams first round picks are in 2022 and 2023 is a positive. I think there's a good chance one of those picks is top 5. Stafford gets hurt, McVay gets exposed, lack of OL and other holes not filled, etc. In contrast, 49rs with Stafford are likely to be picking at the very end of the first round so their 2022 and 2023 picks are less valuable.
2. Detroit is rebuilding. If Goff is a complete flop there (which I don't expect), it just helps their rebuild. Worst case scenario is Goff is placeholder qb for 2 years or an expensive backup for part of that time. No matter who their qb is the next 2 years, Detroit is not going to the super bowl. They will be getting younger and the salary cap implications are probably no big deal.
3. I think their are a lot of red flags with the rams in terms of coaching staff turnover, horrible GM decisions, and possibly McVay's ego in dealing with players and staff. Whatever the dynamic is, Brad Holmes knows. So the fact that he's willing to take on Goff says something positive about Goff.
Your last 2 points I agree with. But that is just agreeing with my point that they liked Goff more than Garrapolo.
I also disagree that, just because the Lions have new decision makers, means they know what they are doing with respect to Goff vs. Garappolo.
Reports were that the 49ers only offered 2nd and 3rd rounders (2 each). I don't think that included Garrapolo, likely due to the fact he has a no trade clause and could be cut anyway at virtually no cost. It might make sense for Jimmy G to refuse a trade unless his final 2 years become guaranteed, but at the same time, another team may feel like they could just get him on the open market for less if the 49ers do end up cutting him
2021 draft pics are also more valuable than most years because of the salary cap pressures this year - if a team can get a plug and play starter, that's money saved.
How's this for a trade since the Lions and 49ers have been talking - 49ers give up a few 2nd and 3rd rounders for Goff. Lions have have an even bigger stash of picks to rebuild. Can find a serviceable cheap QB for the short term - they certainly aren't winning much in the near future anyway.
Over the last 4 years with Goff at QB the Rams have been 43-21
Over the last 4 years with Stafford at QB the Lions have been 23-40
Now they have switched places. We will see which team improves.
Over the last 4 years with Stafford at QB the Lions have been 23-40
Now they have switched places. We will see which team improves.
Having an extra first round pick may not save money. Depends on who that player is replacing on the roster. Or stated differently, the contract for the extra first round player could well be higher than the cost of the alternate players.ColoradoBear said:heartofthebear said:Those are interesting perspectives but they are likely not the Lions' perspectives. It is almost universally believed that the 49ers #12 pick this season is more valuable than any a Rams pick a year from now. In other words, I don't think the Lions are going to be picking earlier the next year than they would have this year with the 49ers picks. It's hard to say what would be the case in 2023, which is why that pick is even worse. You have to factor in the opportunity cost of waiting an extra year for your picks. That is why interest is charged on loans. It is the cost of waiting for a return on your investment. The Lions paid one year of interest on their investment compared to what it would have cost them getting the SF picks. Furthermore, this 2021 draft has almost unprecedented depth and talent that is likely to be unmatched for many years. There are probably close to 200 players entering the draft that have a decent chance to see playing time as NFL players next season. That is 6 rounds worth of players out of the 7. The Lions are not likely to have that advantage in 2022 and 2023.BearGoggles said:From Detroit's perspective:heartofthebear said:One way to make sense of this trade is that Detroit really wanted Goff. They had a chance to get much better picks from SF as well as Jimmy G. and went with LA instead. Remember LA had no 2021 first round picks to offer Detroit. They had already traded that pick to the Jets.BearSD said:McVay and Snead must really hate Goff, because they gave him the Brock Osweiler treatment.Bearly Clad said:
Even if you're a Goff hater you've gotta admit the Rams just got fleeced. They just got a younger QB on a comparable contract and high quality draft pick ammo.
Four years ago, Houston got out from under Osweiler's contract by sending him plus a 2nd round pick and a 6th rounder to Cleveland in exchange for a low 4th round pick. Houston essentially gave Cleveland a 2nd rounder to get them to take Osweiler's contract.
The Rams-Lions deal is really two trades in one. The first deal is LA sending a 1st and 3rd round pick to Detroit for Stafford, which is in line with other offers Detroit received for Stafford. The second deal is LA sending Goff and another 1st round pick to Detroit just to get the Lions to absorb Goff's contract. It took a 1st rounder to do that, whereas Houston only had to give up a 2nd round pick along with Osweiler, because Goff's contract is so much larger.
Cleveland cut Osweiler a few months after they traded for him, before the start of the regular season. Goff will probably be with the Lions longer than that, though it would be surprising if he is there for more than two years.
Another way to make sense of this trade is that they really really didn't want Jimmy G.
1. Counterintuitively, the fact that the rams first round picks are in 2022 and 2023 is a positive. I think there's a good chance one of those picks is top 5. Stafford gets hurt, McVay gets exposed, lack of OL and other holes not filled, etc. In contrast, 49rs with Stafford are likely to be picking at the very end of the first round so their 2022 and 2023 picks are less valuable.
2. Detroit is rebuilding. If Goff is a complete flop there (which I don't expect), it just helps their rebuild. Worst case scenario is Goff is placeholder qb for 2 years or an expensive backup for part of that time. No matter who their qb is the next 2 years, Detroit is not going to the super bowl. They will be getting younger and the salary cap implications are probably no big deal.
3. I think their are a lot of red flags with the rams in terms of coaching staff turnover, horrible GM decisions, and possibly McVay's ego in dealing with players and staff. Whatever the dynamic is, Brad Holmes knows. So the fact that he's willing to take on Goff says something positive about Goff.
Your last 2 points I agree with. But that is just agreeing with my point that they liked Goff more than Garrapolo.
I also disagree that, just because the Lions have new decision makers, means they know what they are doing with respect to Goff vs. Garappolo.
Reports were that the 49ers only offered 2nd and 3rd rounders (2 each). I don't think that included Garrapolo, likely due to the fact he has a no trade clause and could be cut anyway at virtually no cost. It might make sense for Jimmy G to refuse a trade unless his final 2 years become guaranteed, but at the same time, another team may feel like they could just get him on the open market for less if the 49ers do end up cutting him
2021 draft pics are also more valuable than most years because of the salary cap pressures this year - if a team can get a plug and play starter, that's money saved.
How's this for a trade since the Lions and 49ers have been talking - 49ers give up a few 2nd and 3rd rounders for Goff. Lions have have an even bigger stash of picks to rebuild. Can find a serviceable cheap QB for the short term - they certainly aren't winning much in the near future anyway.
The best way to get cheap players is to accumulate picks after the second round.
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