71Bear said:JaMarcus Russell.....Bobodeluxe said:
No love. #1. Biggest bust ever?
Manning, Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, etc. etc. All were elite well before year 6. Elite don't need 6 years to become elite.Bearly Clad said:
Even if you're a Goff hater you've gotta admit the Rams just got fleeced. They just got a younger QB on a comparable contract and high quality draft pick ammo.
Plus, now we get to see two Cal vs Cal games next season (cuz lets be honest, Rodgers isn't going anywhere) and we get to see Jared play on Thanksgiving since the Lions always get one of those games.
Most elite QBs get there in year 6-10 unless they're Mahomes or Marino, if Jared proves to be an elite QB before the end of his contract and/or the Rams collapse then this trade could go down like the Jayson Tatum - Markelle Fultz pick swap between the Sixers and Celtics
Bobodeluxe said:
No love. #1. Biggest bust ever?
And Jimmy Garappolo.....okaydo said:Bobodeluxe said:
No love. #1. Biggest bust ever?
Goff has as many NFC championship game wins as Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and Tom Brady.
I'm not worried about facing Stafford. Now, Murray and Wilson are another matter.helltopay1 said:
Dear Golden one; I understand optometrists are now taking appointments in your area. Steal for thge Rams. stealer the Lions, too. Now, the niners have to face Murray, Stafford and Wilson...Ouch!!!!!
A trivia item for you okaydo...okaydo said:Bobodeluxe said:
No love. #1. Biggest bust ever?
Goff has as many NFC championship game wins as Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and Tom Brady.
McVay and Snead must really hate Goff, because they gave him the Brock Osweiler treatment.Bearly Clad said:
Even if you're a Goff hater you've gotta admit the Rams just got fleeced. They just got a younger QB on a comparable contract and high quality draft pick ammo.
71Bear said:Manning, Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, etc. etc. All were elite well before year 6. Elite don't need 6 years to become elite.Bearly Clad said:
Even if you're a Goff hater you've gotta admit the Rams just got fleeced. They just got a younger QB on a comparable contract and high quality draft pick ammo.
Plus, now we get to see two Cal vs Cal games next season (cuz lets be honest, Rodgers isn't going anywhere) and we get to see Jared play on Thanksgiving since the Lions always get one of those games.
Most elite QBs get there in year 6-10 unless they're Mahomes or Marino, if Jared proves to be an elite QB before the end of his contract and/or the Rams collapse then this trade could go down like the Jayson Tatum - Markelle Fultz pick swap between the Sixers and Celtics
IMO, this is a good deal for both teams. The Rams Super Bowl window is open; however, with the current group, it won't remain open much longer. The missing link has been QB. With Stafford they have a great shot of taking the next step immediately.
Meanwhile, Detroit is rebuilding with a new coach. Goff will be a integral part of that rebuild. Whether he can produce the results the Lions are looking for remains to be determined....
Are you suggesting Goff is a HOF QB like the guys I mentioned? They were all elite level QB's early in their respective careers. That is the Cal fan in you talking not the rationale football fan.....okaydo said:71Bear said:Manning, Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, etc. etc. All were elite well before year 6. Elite don't need 6 years to become elite.Bearly Clad said:
Even if you're a Goff hater you've gotta admit the Rams just got fleeced. They just got a younger QB on a comparable contract and high quality draft pick ammo.
Plus, now we get to see two Cal vs Cal games next season (cuz lets be honest, Rodgers isn't going anywhere) and we get to see Jared play on Thanksgiving since the Lions always get one of those games.
Most elite QBs get there in year 6-10 unless they're Mahomes or Marino, if Jared proves to be an elite QB before the end of his contract and/or the Rams collapse then this trade could go down like the Jayson Tatum - Markelle Fultz pick swap between the Sixers and Celtics
IMO, this is a good deal for both teams. The Rams Super Bowl window is open; however, with the current group, it won't remain open much longer. The missing link has been QB. With Stafford they have a great shot of taking the next step immediately.
Meanwhile, Detroit is rebuilding with a new coach. Goff will be a integral part of that rebuild. Whether he can produce the results the Lions are looking for remains to be determined....
Following up on what Bearly Clad said:
Jared Goff's current age = 26 years, 3 months
Peyton Manning's age when he won his first playoff game = 27 years, 9 months
Drew Brees' age when he won his first playoff game = 2 days before his 28th birthday.
71Bear said:Are you suggesting Goff is a HOF QB like the guys I mentioned? They were all elite level QB's early in their respective careers. That is the Cal fan in you talking not the rationale football fan.....okaydo said:71Bear said:Manning, Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, etc. etc. All were elite well before year 6. Elite don't need 6 years to become elite.Bearly Clad said:
Even if you're a Goff hater you've gotta admit the Rams just got fleeced. They just got a younger QB on a comparable contract and high quality draft pick ammo.
Plus, now we get to see two Cal vs Cal games next season (cuz lets be honest, Rodgers isn't going anywhere) and we get to see Jared play on Thanksgiving since the Lions always get one of those games.
Most elite QBs get there in year 6-10 unless they're Mahomes or Marino, if Jared proves to be an elite QB before the end of his contract and/or the Rams collapse then this trade could go down like the Jayson Tatum - Markelle Fultz pick swap between the Sixers and Celtics
IMO, this is a good deal for both teams. The Rams Super Bowl window is open; however, with the current group, it won't remain open much longer. The missing link has been QB. With Stafford they have a great shot of taking the next step immediately.
Meanwhile, Detroit is rebuilding with a new coach. Goff will be a integral part of that rebuild. Whether he can produce the results the Lions are looking for remains to be determined....
Following up on what Bearly Clad said:
Jared Goff's current age = 26 years, 3 months
Peyton Manning's age when he won his first playoff game = 27 years, 9 months
Drew Brees' age when he won his first playoff game = 2 days before his 28th birthday.
Goff - 38 turnovers in his last 31 games. That is all you need to know about why he was traded.
Peyton Manning heading into his 6th season - 57 turnovers in 33 games (I used two full seasons, I'm not sure where or why that specific 31 number comes into play). To use your 31 number though, it was 55 turnovers in his last 31 games heading into his sixth year.71Bear said:
Are you suggesting Goff is a HOF QB like the guys I mentioned? They were all elite level QB's early in their respective careers. That is the Cal fan in you talking not the rationale football fan.....
Goff - 38 turnovers in his last 31 games. That is all you need to know about why he was traded.
Or maybe it's kind of the opposite. Maybe McVay is open only to media types who worship him as a genius and write what he wants them to write, while everyone else in the media gets shut out and never gets an inside scoop from the Rams coaching staff or management.okaydo said:
I think McVay is secretly open to the media. And that's why he doesn't get a lot of blame. (It's also curious that a lot of Rams beat people and people who follow the Rams closely were seriously thinking that Wofford was the Rams savior.)
One way to make sense of this trade is that Detroit really wanted Goff. They had a chance to get much better picks from SF as well as Jimmy G. and went with LA instead. Remember LA had no 2021 first round picks to offer Detroit. They had already traded that pick to the Jets.BearSD said:McVay and Snead must really hate Goff, because they gave him the Brock Osweiler treatment.Bearly Clad said:
Even if you're a Goff hater you've gotta admit the Rams just got fleeced. They just got a younger QB on a comparable contract and high quality draft pick ammo.
Four years ago, Houston got out from under Osweiler's contract by sending him plus a 2nd round pick and a 6th rounder to Cleveland in exchange for a low 4th round pick. Houston essentially gave Cleveland a 2nd rounder to get them to take Osweiler's contract.
The Rams-Lions deal is really two trades in one. The first deal is LA sending a 1st and 3rd round pick to Detroit for Stafford, which is in line with other offers Detroit received for Stafford. The second deal is LA sending Goff and another 1st round pick to Detroit just to get the Lions to absorb Goff's contract. It took a 1st rounder to do that, whereas Houston only had to give up a 2nd round pick along with Osweiler, because Goff's contract is so much larger.
Cleveland cut Osweiler a few months after they traded for him, before the start of the regular season. Goff will probably be with the Lions longer than that, though it would be surprising if he is there for more than two years.
Fair enough...okaydo said:
So here's my attempt to rationalize this. I'll repeat stuff that I've repeated in the past.
1. I didn't leave my home at all this week. When I finally did leave the home for 90 minutes to go to the market and several restaurants, all this news broke.
2. I'm happy for Goff. I think getting out of the Rams is a good thing. I think going to Detroit is a good thing, even if he's playing for the cannibal guy. Yeah, his QB coach has no experience. But he is Mark Brunell, and he did win a Rose Bowl and has a Super Bowl ring and is a Pac-10 alum. And his offensive coordinator is Anthony Lynn. And there's a highly touted Rams defense guy, who didn't get promoted to defensive coordinator, so now he's with the Lions.
3. Goff, as I've said before, was dealt I highly unusual hand his rookie year. His QB coach, Chris Weinke. had 1 year experience and his offensive coordinator, Rob Boras, had 4 games experience, having replaced former Cal offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti at the end of the 2015 season.
Compare to Wentz's rookie year:
--Head coach Doug Pederson had 3 years experience as an NFL QB coach, 3 years as an NFL OC.
--Offensive coordiantor Frank Reich had 3 years experience as an NFL QB Coach, 2 years as an NFL OC.
--Quarterbacks coach John DeFilippo had 5 years experience as an NFL QB coach and 1 year as an NFL OC.
That's 17 years worth of experience at QB coach and offensive coordinator, including 2 former backups to Hall of Fame QBs (Favre and Kelly).
And Dak's rookie year:
--Head coach Jason Garrett had 2 years experience an NFL QB coach, 4 years as an NFL OC.
--Offensive coordinator Scott Linehan had 11 years experience as an NFL OC.
--QB coach Wade Wilson had 16 years experience as an NFL OC.
That's 33 years worth of experience.
So in Goff's 2nd year, he gets McVay. And McVay correctly surrounds Goff with experienced people.. His 2nd year QB coach Greg Olson had 14 years experience as an NFL QB coach. Offensive coordinator Matt LeFleur had 6 years experience as an NFL QB coach. And McVay brought in 3 years experience as an NFL OC.
Goff went from starving for experienced coaches to having plenty of them. But his OC and QB coach left after that season. And there continued to be turnover.
I think McVay in trying to "fix" Goff also maybe perhaps over-corrected. Like Goff was like a homeless starving man who just needed basic food, but instead was given a feast. And thus the perception came that McVay was playing Madden with Goff and was babying him. Outwardly, McVay tried to downplay that perception. But McVay is very media savvy, and I wonder if he was responsible for spreading that perception among many people in the NFL. And that perception ended up doing more harm than good for Goff.
Mike Silver is one of Goff's biggest defenders -- I rarely read any of his tweets because he blocked me for something minor -- but he often goes to bat for him.
And so is Jeff Darlington of ESPN, who profiled Goff in 2018.
Darlington was one of a handful of Goff defenders on Twitter tonight.
Reading Darlington's tweets, it reminded me of the importance of having a media advocate.
I think McVay is secretly open to the media. And that's why he doesn't get a lot of blame. (It's also curious that a lot of Rams beat people and people who follow the Rams closely were seriously thinking that Wofford was the Rams savior.)
Everything McVay would do, he'd be touted as a genius. He also always blamed himself for the team's problems. Well, he used to.
4. Another problem for Goff is that he just doesn't look the part. He reminds me of Eli Manning, who also didn't really look the part. Goff doesn't look like the alpha leader of men type. He looks too much like a kid in a big helmet. I'm not saying he's a bad leader. I think he's a good leader. But perception goes a long way.
5. Like I said, I'm happy for Goff. I think he needed to "graduate" away from McVay. One of the fun things about the NFL is that there are always surprises (even if Brady is always winning). I think he needs to get away from that California "bubble." Of course, I hope the McVay-Stafford experiment fails. And I'll be rooting for the Lions and against the Rams.
Goff is NOT a massive bust. No one here with any sense has written that. What some of us have written is that he is not elite nor will he ever be elite. There is no shame in being a mid-level NFL quarterback. Quite frankly, the worst thing that could have happened to him was being selected #1. It put unreasonable pressure on him to produce at a Manning-like level. He didn't have the personality to meet those expectations. Now he gets a fresh start with much lower expectations. This might be what he needs to turn his career around. Time will tell.okaydo said:71Bear said:Are you suggesting Goff is a HOF QB like the guys I mentioned? They were all elite level QB's early in their respective careers. That is the Cal fan in you talking not the rationale football fan.....okaydo said:71Bear said:Manning, Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, etc. etc. All were elite well before year 6. Elite don't need 6 years to become elite.Bearly Clad said:
Even if you're a Goff hater you've gotta admit the Rams just got fleeced. They just got a younger QB on a comparable contract and high quality draft pick ammo.
Plus, now we get to see two Cal vs Cal games next season (cuz lets be honest, Rodgers isn't going anywhere) and we get to see Jared play on Thanksgiving since the Lions always get one of those games.
Most elite QBs get there in year 6-10 unless they're Mahomes or Marino, if Jared proves to be an elite QB before the end of his contract and/or the Rams collapse then this trade could go down like the Jayson Tatum - Markelle Fultz pick swap between the Sixers and Celtics
IMO, this is a good deal for both teams. The Rams Super Bowl window is open; however, with the current group, it won't remain open much longer. The missing link has been QB. With Stafford they have a great shot of taking the next step immediately.
Meanwhile, Detroit is rebuilding with a new coach. Goff will be a integral part of that rebuild. Whether he can produce the results the Lions are looking for remains to be determined....
Following up on what Bearly Clad said:
Jared Goff's current age = 26 years, 3 months
Peyton Manning's age when he won his first playoff game = 27 years, 9 months
Drew Brees' age when he won his first playoff game = 2 days before his 28th birthday.
Goff - 38 turnovers in his last 31 games. That is all you need to know about why he was traded.
Ha, I don't think Goff is a Hall of Fame QB. Of course not.
My point is Goff is portrayed as a massive, massive bust. Well, he did accomplish some things. But everything he accomplished is accompanied by "Well, but McVay...." His accomplishments aren't really his own and his turnovers are really his own. So he's just massively terrible.
So I'm glad to see if he can accomplish more without McVay. And if he can't, well, at least he has a lot of money.
And yes, I have a Cal bias for Goff.
Honestly, I'd rather see Goff succeed next year than Rodgers succeed.
79 Bear said:
I think Detroit may have the better offensive line from what I've been reading. If Jared has protection he can shred opposing defenses. Would love to see him do that in Detroit, get some playoff wins and maybe they can even win on Thanksgiving for once. I suspect his girlfriend will not follow him to Detroit, which will put an even bigger chip on his shoulder and he'll have a very good year. He's a smart kid and I hope he nails it.
dajo9 said:79 Bear said:
I think Detroit may have the better offensive line from what I've been reading. If Jared has protection he can shred opposing defenses. Would love to see him do that in Detroit, get some playoff wins and maybe they can even win on Thanksgiving for once. I suspect his girlfriend will not follow him to Detroit, which will put an even bigger chip on his shoulder and he'll have a very good year. He's a smart kid and I hope he nails it.
I think a few things are about to happen. Matt Stafford is about to discover NFL life behind a bad offensive line. Jared Goff is going to have the protection he had in the Rams Super Bowl year. Robert Woods career is about to take a major hit. Golladay's career is about to skyrocket. Neither team will make the playoffs. The Lions because the defense needs lots of work. The Rams because the offensive personnel needs lots of work but Goff took all the blame and the defense overperformed last year (not to mention Donald is 30).
The Lions/Jimmy G. stuff is mere speculation. No one here has any idea whether SF offered Garappolo to the Lions. As for Stafford having options, that is not true. Detroit kept him in the loop but did not give him a choice. They took LA's offer because it yielded the additional #1. Of course, that extra #1 came with a huge price - Goff's contract.CALiforniALUM said:
If Goff has an Eli Manning career because he doesn't look the part, I'll enjoy watching him win his next two Super Bowls.
In response to the Lions not wanting Jimmy G and went to the Rams for Goff, another way to look at this is that the Lions may have given Stafford a choice between equal offers. Stafford is well liked in Detroit and there were lots of reports of his cooperation and support for moving on.
