sycasey said:

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71Bear said:

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philbert said:

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Quite frankly, I believe the Giants also would have struggled v. Atlanta for the same reason LA is struggling. Both teams were emotionally and mentally drained after the NLDS. Of course, the NLCS isn't over yet and LA did come back v. the Braves last year when down 3-1 but this year, ATL/LA has a different feel to it.

Regardless, what happens, I am 100% rooting for Dusty Baker to finally get a WS ring as a manager. He's a great guy who came so close several times, I am hoping this is his turn….

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I think the big difference is that the Dodgers overworked their starting pitchers to beat the Giants, but meanwhile the Giants just started their guys on normal rest (except for one relief inning from Gausman). That usage may well be having an effect here that wouldn't have been seen if the Giants had advanced. Buehler, Scherzer, and Urias have been much less effective in the NLCS.

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I would add that Buehler and Urias are at their career highs in innings pitched this year....after the shortened covid year. I know SF had most of their starters go on the DL this year, whether intentional or not. So they all got a rest break. I'm not sure if LA did that with any of their guys.

philbert said:

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sycasey said:

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71Bear said:

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philbert said:

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Quite frankly, I believe the Giants also would have struggled v. Atlanta for the same reason LA is struggling. Both teams were emotionally and mentally drained after the NLDS. Of course, the NLCS isn't over yet and LA did come back v. the Braves last year when down 3-1 but this year, ATL/LA has a different feel to it.

Regardless, what happens, I am 100% rooting for Dusty Baker to finally get a WS ring as a manager. He's a great guy who came so close several times, I am hoping this is his turn….

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I think the big difference is that the Dodgers overworked their starting pitchers to beat the Giants, but meanwhile the Giants just started their guys on normal rest (except for one relief inning from Gausman). That usage may well be having an effect here that wouldn't have been seen if the Giants had advanced. Buehler, Scherzer, and Urias have been much less effective in the NLCS.

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I would add that Buehler and Urias are at their career highs in innings pitched this year....after the shortened covid year. I know SF had most of their starters go on the DL this year, whether intentional or not. So they all got a rest break. I'm not sure if LA did that with any of their guys.

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Walker B and Sherzer struggled down the stretch in the regular season. Urias was up and down. Lux played only 10 games in center. In my opinion, Roberts NEEDS to take this into consideration when facing a long playoff push. Urias can't be the swing guy and a starter! Especially when he threw WAAAY more innings than he ever had before. Last year was only a 60 game season. This year was 162. Playing Lux in center in the playoffs where 1 play can be a difference maker? Dumb.
Roberts tries to be too tricky to show that he is brilliant.

71Bear said:

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philbert said:

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Quite frankly, I believe the Giants also would have struggled v. Atlanta for the same reason LA is struggling. Both teams were emotionally and mentally drained after the NLDS. Of course, the NLCS isn't over yet and LA did come back v. the Braves last year when down 3-1 but this year, ATL/LA has a different feel to it.

Regardless, what happens, I am 100% rooting for Dusty Baker to finally get a WS ring as a manager. He's a great guy who came so close several times, I am hoping this is his turn….

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One reason why 2021 has a different feel is that the Braves feel like a better post-season team right now, and felt that way for most of September. Heck, over the last 1/3 of the season, they were pretty much the equal of the Giants and Dodgers as a regular season team, finishing 36-18.

They were the favorite to win the division and certainly given a good chance of winning the pennant (not as good as the Dodgers, but a good chance) but they were a big disappointment even when Acuna got hurt, playing .500 ball. As it turns out, the team that improved the most with mid-season acquisitions were the Braves. How many times in history have mid-season acquisitions hit back to back HR's in the post-season? Answer -- 1, yesterday.

A month ago I thought the Brewers seemed better built for the post than any NL teams, but the Braves, except for a brief blip in September when they lost 4 in a row 92 to the Rockies and 2 to the Giants, looked like the best built for post-season by the end. The Brewers' big 3 starters lost some mojo and they lost their 8th inning set up man (which did impact the NLDS). Meanwhile, the Braves big 3 starters started looking solid. I liked them better than the Giants or the Dodgers as a post-season team.

The Braves did have to hold off the Phillies, but they got to relax for their last four games. They were able to take care of the Brewers in 4. Unlike the Dodgers, who had to give everything they had to try to win the division, then to win the Wild Card, then to win the NLDS. If the Braves were an equal to or better than the Dodgers as a post-season team shortly before the season ended, it became worse for the Dodgers when they lost Muncy and now Turner (and maybe losing Kershaw, though I'm not convinced that was a negative). I gave the Braves the best chance of winning the pennant before the series started, I would have done the same if they had played the Giants. Now that they are up 3-1, I still think they have the best chance.

Last year, coming into the NLCS, the Dodgers were a well rested team, no big health issues. The Braves were pretty well rested, too, but the Dodgers were playing like the better team (with all games at a neutral site, the Dodgers were favored in all 7 games). The Dodgers never had to play a game in Atlanta. Perhaps the Dodgers would have been better off with 4 in LA and 3 in Atlanta, but it is nice to be down 3-1 and never have to face a road crowd.

Right now the Dodgers are trying to come back 3-1 with the last two games on the road, which is ALMOST never done. Almost the operative word. In a 7 game LCS? Happened twice, starting with the Marlins (with help from Steve Bartman) winning games 6 and 7 in Chicago after taking game 5 in Miami, and ending with the Red Sox coming from 3-0 then 3-1, winning the last two in NY. So yeah, it can be done, but it is a way bigger challenge than what they faced in 2020, both needing games 6 and 7 on the road, and that's if they can get game 5 with a bullpen game against a starter who has been pitching really well, AND when, unlike 2020, they seem like the inferior team, not the superior team.

It's baseball. Anything can happen, and things that have never happened keep happening. But I'll mostly just root for Dusty to finally win a World Series and see what happens.

Dodgers 11-2

That works

I am hoping Scherzer with some rest is a lot better than Scherzer without rest.

Also need the Dodgers to keep hitting…

With a healthy application of duct tape, the Dodgers just might make it. Turner out, Muncy out. Kelly out. Keep the miracles coming.

philbert said:

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bump

As @jorgecastillo reports, Max Scherzer won't start Game 6 of NLCS for #Dodgers vs. #Braves on Saturday. According to a source, Scherzer is experiencing general arm fatigue. No structural issues. It's possible he could pitch in Game 7 but will depend on how he feels tomorrow.

— Mike DiGiovanna (@MikeDiGiovanna) October 23, 2021

philbert said:

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philbert said:

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bump

As @jorgecastillo reports, Max Scherzer won't start Game 6 of NLCS for #Dodgers vs. #Braves on Saturday. According to a source, Scherzer is experiencing general arm fatigue. No structural issues. It's possible he could pitch in Game 7 but will depend on how he feels tomorrow.

— Mike DiGiovanna (@MikeDiGiovanna) October 23, 2021

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Thanks, Roberts!

Pendejo!

Rosario is hitting like Babe Ruth. First base was open.

I know Freeman was due up but I would have intentionally walked Rosario and taken a struggling Buehler out.

dimitrig said:

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Rosario is hitting like Babe Ruth. First base was open.

I know Freeman was due up but I would have intentionally walked Rosario and taken a struggling Buehler out.

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Agreed. The team is just broken down and out of gas. Oh well, will be pulling for the Braves even tho Dusty seems like a great dude.

If Atlanta jokes this, just concede game 7.

Beat LA is 4 outs away!

Make that 3 outs away!

GMP said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Highest payroll in MLB by far even before going out and getting Scherzer and Turner at the deadline. Good riddance.

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Not sure who you're a fan of, but I don't get this sentiment. They're a professional baseball team. The goal should be to win. They are spending, but they're spending to win. It's a lot better than a team like the A's, whose fans should be furious that their team won't spend when necessary.

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Oh I think the A's ownership is a joke.

Maybe the Giants will get a chance next year.

Golden One said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Highest payroll in MLB by far even before going out and getting Scherzer and Turner at the deadline. Good riddance.

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Amen!! They couldn't buy themselves a World Series championship this year. Glad that they are out of it.

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Haha bitter Giant fans. Stick to crying about Cal.

With men at 2nd and 3rd, no out, the Dodgers can't score a run.

At bat:

Albert Pujols, who actually statistically was a guy maybe you wanted up there. He's 50 years old, but ok.

Steve Souza. Um, why? The guy went 5-33 in the regular season and in the postseason he had 1 walk and 1 hit in 9 plate appearances.

Gavin Lux was there on the bench. Lux isn't a world beater, but Souza? When he went to bat you already knew it would all be up to Betts.

Mookie choked in a big situation.

Losing Muncy was a big deal, but Dodgers still could have pulled this out. Pitching did great despite all the adversity.

The top of the lineup sucked. I am looking at you in particular Seager and Turner.

Cody Bellinger found his groove which actually kept the Dodgers in this thing. Given how hard he sucked during the rest of the year that should have been a bonus.

Really pathetic showing. Getting shutout TWICE by the Giants just foreshadowed the NLCS. This lineup shouldn't have to be struggling to scratch out 2 runs.

Golden One said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Golden One said:

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westcoast101 said:

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Highest payroll in MLB by far even before going out and getting Scherzer and Turner at the deadline. Good riddance.

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Amen!! They couldn't buy themselves a World Series championship this year. Glad that they are out of it.

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Haha bitter Giant fans. Stick to crying about Cal.

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Dodgers suck!! Always have, always will. Go Giants!!

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Just great. I have to listen to you trash my Dodgers and college students that play sports at Cal.

There's no "buy" in team.

bonsallbear said:

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GMP said:

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bonsallbear said:

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Maybe the Giants will get a chance next year.

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Lol. Bro. The Giants wore the Dodgers out, and prevented them from having home field advantage in this series, despite being almost 20 wins better than Atlanta. Everyone sees through this lame attempt to deflect your pain.

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Better luck next year Bro.

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Lol, same? Enjoy your hangover.

Congrats to the Braves!

They had as many injuries as anyone but beat some really good teams to win it all!

I still think the Dodgers would have prevailed if not for Roberts being a moron and using his starters in relief when he had one of the best bullpens in the majors.

dimitrig said:

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Congrats to the Braves!

They had as many injuries as anyone but beat some really good teams to win it all!

I still think the Dodgers would have prevailed if not for Roberts being a moron and using his starters in relief when he had one of the best bullpens in the majors.

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Some of us thought them Brewers were the team to beat after SF and LA exhausted each other in the stretch run. Atlanta was an afterthought…

LA and SF played a killer NLDS, leaving the winner regardless of who it would have in a weakened state moving forward. Atlanta took full advantage of their opportunity taking down LA and, subsequently, Houston.

71Bear said:

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dimitrig said:

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Congrats to the Braves!

They had as many injuries as anyone but beat some really good teams to win it all!

I still think the Dodgers would have prevailed if not for Roberts being a moron and using his starters in relief when he had one of the best bullpens in the majors.

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Some of us thought them Brewers were the team to beat after SF and LA exhausted each other in the stretch run. Atlanta was an afterthought…

LA and SF played a killer NLDS, leaving the winner regardless of who it would have in a weakened state moving forward. Atlanta took full advantage of their opportunity taking down LA and, subsequently, Houston.

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I thought the Brewers were the team to beat in the NL until the Williams injury, although even then, it's baseball and anything can happen. The Williams injury definitely made the Brewers a weaker team, the ripple effect through the pen matters. Although Williams was the 8th inning guy, Adrian Houser isn't pitching the 5th inning of NLDS game 3 if Williams is healthy. If Williams is pitching the 8th inning in NLDS game 4 instead of Hader, game 4 may have gone differently.

Meanwhile, the Braves quietly got their top three starters going, as well the setup guys in the pen. Although the Giants took 2 of 3 from the Braves in mid-September in SF, the 3-0 shutout started by Fried with the Rosario cycle were signs of where the Braves were. By the time Rosario was healthy, they had more than made up for the loss of Ozuna and Acuna. Nobody was paying attention to the fact that the Braves improved themselves more than anybody with mid-season trades, and if they could get by the Brewers, were a good bet to knock off either the Giants or Dodgers.

After the Williams injury, I thought the Braves had a very slight edge over the Brewers, with either one still having a slight edge over the Giants or Dodgers (with the NLCS favorite in part depending on how much the NLDS took out of each of the winners).

One can quibble about what Roberts did with the starting pitchers in the post-season, but the Dodgers starting pitching was starting to look worn out before the post-season. You posted back on September 26:

"Pitchers who have thrown 170+ innings in the NL…

LA has 3
Phil has 2

No other team has more than one."

Maybe it was more what Roberts did with his starters in the regular season than it was the post-season.

The worm started to turn for Dodgers starting pitching on Sunday of Labor Day weekend. With the Giants and Dodgers tied, the Dodgers had Buehler starting and the Giants had a bullpen game. Who thought the Giants were going to win that game? Buehler stank up the joint, the first sign of the Dodgers starting pitching getting worn down. Scherzer being lousy in his last two regular season starts wasn't a good sign, either.

When the Dodgers had to fight until the last day of the regular season but didn't take the division, it only exacerbated things because they had to use Scherzer in the Wild Card game. He gave up only a run, but the fatigue was showing, which is why Roberts pulled him early. He might have had a bad looking line in game 3 of the NLDS except the wind kept all balls in the park except for Longoria's shot off Scherzer.

By late September, it was clear that in order to have a strong shot at the pennant, the Dodgers needed to win the division, avoid the Wild Card game, and get home field in the NLDS and the NLCS. They didn't. Then they got further broken when they had to first win the Wild Card game and then use everything they had to win the NLDS.

If the Giants had been as predicted before the season and won 75 games or so, the Dodgers may well have won the World Series. But that wasn't the hand the Dodgers were dealt, and by the time the NLDS was done, they were too broken to beat a quality Braves team.

Cal8285 said:

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71Bear said:

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dimitrig said:

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Congrats to the Braves!

They had as many injuries as anyone but beat some really good teams to win it all!

I still think the Dodgers would have prevailed if not for Roberts being a moron and using his starters in relief when he had one of the best bullpens in the majors.

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Some of us thought them Brewers were the team to beat after SF and LA exhausted each other in the stretch run. Atlanta was an afterthought…

LA and SF played a killer NLDS, leaving the winner regardless of who it would have in a weakened state moving forward. Atlanta took full advantage of their opportunity taking down LA and, subsequently, Houston.

---

I thought the Brewers were the team to beat in the NL until the Williams injury, although even then, it's baseball and anything can happen. The Williams injury definitely made the Brewers a weaker team, the ripple effect through the pen matters. Although Williams was the 8th inning guy, Adrian Houser isn't pitching the 5th inning of NLDS game 3 if Williams is healthy. If Williams is pitching the 8th inning in NLDS game 4 instead of Hader, game 4 may have gone differently.

Meanwhile, the Braves quietly got their top three starters going, as well the setup guys in the pen. Although the Giants took 2 of 3 from the Braves in mid-September in SF, the 3-0 shutout started by Fried with the Rosario cycle were signs of where the Braves were. By the time Rosario was healthy, they had more than made up for the loss of Ozuna and Acuna. Nobody was paying attention to the fact that the Braves improved themselves more than anybody with mid-season trades, and if they could get by the Brewers, were a good bet to knock off either the Giants or Dodgers.

After the Williams injury, I thought the Braves had a very slight edge over the Brewers, with either one still having a slight edge over the Giants or Dodgers (with the NLCS favorite in part depending on how much the NLDS took out of each of the winners).

One can quibble about what Roberts did with the starting pitchers in the post-season, but the Dodgers starting pitching was starting to look worn out before the post-season. You posted back on September 26:

"Pitchers who have thrown 170+ innings in the NL…

LA has 3
Phil has 2

No other team has more than one."

Maybe it was more what Roberts did with his starters in the regular season than it was the post-season.

The worm started to turn for Dodgers starting pitching on Sunday of Labor Day weekend. With the Giants and Dodgers tied, the Dodgers had Buehler starting and the Giants had a bullpen game. Who thought the Giants were going to win that game? Buehler stank up the joint, the first sign of the Dodgers starting pitching getting worn down. Scherzer being lousy in his last two regular season starts wasn't a good sign, either.

When the Dodgers had to fight until the last day of the regular season but didn't take the division, it only exacerbated things because they had to use Scherzer in the Wild Card game. He gave up only a run, but the fatigue was showing, which is why Roberts pulled him early. He might have had a bad looking line in game 3 of the NLDS except the wind kept all balls in the park except for Longoria's shot off Scherzer.

By late September, it was clear that in order to have a strong shot at the pennant, the Dodgers needed to win the division, avoid the Wild Card game, and get home field in the NLDS and the NLCS. They didn't. Then they got further broken when they had to first win the Wild Card game and then use everything they had to win the NLDS.

If the Giants had been as predicted before the season and won 75 games or so, the Dodgers may well have won the World Series. But that wasn't the hand the Dodgers were dealt, and by the time the NLDS was done, they were too broken to beat a quality Braves team.

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Oh, I definitely think that the Dodgers starters were getting worn out at the end of the season.

That's why it was so dumb to use them in relief.

Dodgers > Giants