YuSeeBerkeley;842109105 said:
You can justify it however you want, but there's no asterisk on any of the Dodgers' titles.
YuSeeBerkeley;842109105 said:
You can justify it however you want, but there's no asterisk on any of the Dodgers' titles.
grandmastapoop;842108663 said:
Limiting to LA vs. SF is as arbitrary as me limiting the count to those in my lifetime (born April 1982, so 2-1 SF).
beelzebear;842108690 said:
Hey I'm happy the Dodger have the bucks AND are willing to spend it. It's going to be great.
glb78;842109324 said:
Classy post KAB and very true. As a Giants fan, I can't stand the Dodgers, but I do respect them as a storied franchise. As for steroids in baseball, they seem to go way back. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2005-05-03-steroids-house_x.htm
beelzebear;842109370 said:
Okay if you won't talk smack, I will.
I'm just happy the Dodgers are now owned by non-idiots after Murdoch and Parking Lot guy...and now they're willing to drop some money to win.
As for being civil to Giants fans, what can I say. Closest friends are likely Giants fans, as are in-laws, relatives, ex's, etc. I have always been polite to them over the years as they suffered. Never talked smack or got into it and we're talking about guys who got drunk at the Stick in the Left Field Bleachers, started fights, ending up in the paddy wagon. The kind of guys in HS would stick a kid's head in the toilet. And yet I was always nice about it.
So after the first WS title by the Giants in '10 I was happy for them and pleasant, and they returned it. However in '12 the smack talk came out and Giants fans were suddenly like Red Sox fans...former losers who now talk smack. So now it's time for payback.
I will give the Giants this: right now they look like the team of the present with the fire power but the future and big bucks will make the Dodgers real monsters and Giant fans will soon remember that distaste in their months. I'll still be nice to them but only after the natural order has been restored. After years of penny pinching and retardation, the Dodgers are back and going to drop MAJOR COIN and it's going to be great!
I think we can all agree that the rivalry is back and that's great.
beelzebear;842109370 said:
I think we can all agree that the rivalry is back and that's great.
beelzebear;842109370 said:
So after the first WS title by the Giants in '10 I was happy for them and pleasant, and they returned it. However in '12 the smack talk came out and Giants fans were suddenly like Red Sox fans...former losers who now talk smack. So now it's time for payback.
beelzebear;842109407 said:
Sorry the Giants don't have the same amount of coins!
KoreAmBear;842109309 said:
GMP stick to one team, man. I thought you were an Angels fan.
beelzebear;842109434 said:
Worked for the Yankees. Worked for the Lakers. Not perfect and often weird but it worked. I'd rather have it than not. BTW, $213m p/y, nothing. Dodgers are going to break $300m.
2ndTrumpetBear;842108980 said:
Cal's heading to the Final Four and Los Gigantes blank the bums.
A great day in sports.
grandmastapoop;842109433 said:
I lived in OC till I was 7, and was an Angels fan then. But I've been a Giants fan since then. I like the Angels - they're my favorite AL team, but not like the Giants.
KoreAmBear;842109732 said:
But I have to say that I don't find how the LA Dodgers and SF Giants performance comparison is so arbitrary. ... Anyway, fun thread as always.
beelzebear;842109434 said:
Worked for the Yankees. Worked for the Lakers. Not perfect and often weird but it worked. I'd rather have it than not. BTW, $213m p/y, nothing. Dodgers are going to break $300m.
beelzebear;842109763 said:
Look it's this simple - I'd rather have the bucks to spend on players. It's not perfect but it's an advantage. Ask the freakin' Yankees with 27 WS titles. Them titles weren't freebies and over the long run money helps. I'm just glad the new Dodgers owners have opened their wallets.
heartofthebear;842109777 said:
I think you should read and/or watch money ball. Or at least study the 2012 Oakland A's.
beelzebear;842109792 said:
Here's what I'm going to say to you Giants/Niners fans - Eddie D dropped a buttload of bucks on players salaries. Those rings were not cheap or free. He was the freakin' king of $$$ and that's why the NFL started the cap, and the Niners played that as well.
As the silly saying goes, money talks, bullsh*t walks. Ask any player who has a limited shelf life. Money absolutely helps winning. Eddie D knew it, Jerry Buss knew it. Magic Johnson knows it.
Otherwise I agree, money is *NOT* the solution but it's a irreplaceable tool if used wisely and can pay off big time. Ideally I'd like to see a 2 prong approach: drop bucks on the farm system, drop bucks to keep and sign players who can help. Develop a method to the madness. That's the one thing I do object to - tossing money at problems just because you can.
Dodgers use to have the greatest farm system before Murdoch. They bring that back AND have the money and it could be hell on the rest of MLB.
beelzebear;842109827 said:
Attendance: please, the Dodgers were the first organization to draw 3 million in a season and that was a long time ago. They don't always make that number but for years they were close. Any way, have you seen or heard about the Dodgers TV contract? HAHAHA! It even shames the freakin' Yankees!
Unit2Sucks;842109851 said:
Ironically while everyone points to the money as the source of the yankee's success, it's pretty clear in retrospect that there was a core group of players that fueled their championship run that started in 1996 and that once those players exited their primes, it became a lot harder for the yankees to succeed in the postseason.
beelzebear;842109863 said:
Haha, like the Giants are broke or don't spend money. How much was Zito's contract?
Okay I get what you're saying but sports really is simply a reflection of the society at large. Money rules just about everything now, and yes that is sad.
Any way, if you hear smack talk from rivals teams, you want your team to compete. That's all I want however given how poorly the Dodgers have been run the past two go-rounds, drastic measures are in need. It's the same for pretty much any fan...and yes a lot of that is associated ego boast. Lets be honest, people like to win or follow winners.
Same goes for the fans for the California Golden Bears...they want wins as well, despite the crazy amateur status of players in a BILLION dollar industry.
I do agree that if the Dodgers win it, it will be the core but with the core comes keeping them. Keeping Kershaw is going to cost the most ever. And so it goes.
beelzebear;842109863 said:
Haha, like the Giants are broke or don't spend money. How much was Zito's contract?
beelzebear;842109863 said:
Haha, like the Giants are broke or don't spend money. How much was Zito's contract?
Okay I get what you're saying but sports really is simply a reflection of the society at large. Money rules just about everything now, and yes that is sad.
Any way, if you hear smack talk from rivals teams, you want your team to compete. That's all I want however given how poorly the Dodgers have been run the past two go-rounds, drastic measures are in need. It's the same for pretty much any fan...and yes a lot of that is associated ego boast. Lets be honest, people like to win or follow winners.
Same goes for the fans for the California Golden Bears...they want wins as well, despite the crazy amateur status of players in a BILLION dollar industry.
I do agree that if the Dodgers win it, it will be the core but with the core comes keeping them. Keeping Kershaw is going to cost the most ever. And so it goes.
Unit2Sucks;842109851 said:
All this speaks to how disappointing pro sports have become. Basically people are rooting for their teams to become the yankees and outspend other teams in hopes of obtaining a championship. Before free agency baseball was great because your team had it's crappy players and you rooted for them to become better players so you would have a chance at a WS title. Robbie Thompson was my favorite player growing up - not because he was the best player on the team but because he was a Giant and I liked the way he played the game.
Now you have fans who basically say "I cheer for the guy making $15 million who plays second base and next year I'll cheer for the next guy who takes his place." There's so little continuity and people have so little investment in their individual players.
Ironically while everyone points to the money as the source of the yankee's success, it's pretty clear in retrospect that there was a core group of players that fueled their championship run that started in 1996 and that once those players exited their primes, it became a lot harder for the yankees to succeed in the postseason. If the Dodgers ultimately do win a championship with some semblance of their current cast, we'll probably point to Kershaw, Kemp, Ethier as their core.
heartofthebear;842109900 said:
Essentially the point you are making is that people are rooting for mercenaries rather than patriots.
heartofthebear;842109900 said:
Here is a little historical note: During the revolutionary war, the British hired German mercenaries to help them defeat the Americans. The British were wealthier, better trained and had every advantage. But they were arrogant overconfident drunks that ended up largely defeating themselves in the end.
There is something to be said about a team that has emotional bonds and is playing from the heart. Teams that are built entirely through money bonds, rather than social bonds don't amount to much.
Unit2Sucks;842109901 said:
Exactly my point.
Here is a painful historical note - the Florida freaking Marlins won 2 world series, both at the expense of the Giants, with two team full of mercenaries (4 years apart and with very little overlap in key personnel). It is possible to win it all with mercenaries and an unsustainable roster.
Unit2Sucks;842109901 said:
Exactly my point.
Here is a painful historical note - the Florida freaking Marlins won 2 world series, both at the expense of the Giants, with two team full of mercenaries (4 years apart and with very little overlap in key personnel). It is possible to win it all with mercenaries and an unsustainable roster.
sycasey;842109917 said:
True but they couldn't sustain it. The fans stayed away because they knew ownership wasn't really committed to winning (and also because it's Miami). The Marlins are kind of the outlier here; usually that approach doesn't work. They tried it again last year and it collapsed spectacularly.
sycasey;842109858 said:
Very much this. When the Yankees had their run, it was with Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Bernie Williams, Posada, etc., mostly the homegrown talent that fueled that dynasty. Now I will grant that their money allowed them to KEEP these players rather than losing them to free agency and that is certainly a huge advantage for the Yankees, but generally they didn't win titles by signing a bunch of expensive free agents. Veteran free agents are a way to sustain a period of success a bit longer, not a way to build one.
