oski003;842613125 said:

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He'll have more talent than he had last year and the year before. I'm not sure about this year but the coaching stability is helping. Cal is not that far off from beating USC and UCLA. Oregon and Stanford are leagues ahead of Cal and have been for 5+ years. Dykes hasn't made enough immediate impact to be at their level in 3 years. It is going to take more as long as he keeps making progress.

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not that far from beating USC/UCLA? on the basis of what? UCLA smacked us down after our bye week. USC played worse this year, and we were about the same, though a little better than last year.

since we're certainly not even close to either of them in recruiting, I guess we should hope both teams underperform, or hope their coaches leave.

beeasyed;842613135 said:

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not that far from beating USC/UCLA? on the basis of what? UCLA smacked us down after our bye week. USC played worse this year, and we were about the same, though a little better than last year.

since we're certainly not even close to either of them in recruiting, I guess we should hope both teams underperform, or hope their coaches leave.

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The UCLA game was super weird in how they dominated us in 2015. The UCLA and Oregon games were both the wtf games. In 2014 against UCLA, we were about 20 yards (a call on Wadood for spearing Chris Harper should have gotten it done) from a game winning FG, and we were a worse team in 2014. With all the great recruiting Mora Jr. has done, like Sarkisian at UW, he has ultimately done jack squat. I think Sonny is a smarter coach than Mora, just that we don't have the recruits. Sonny has the potential to be a better coach -- and with this extension I am willing to give him a chance to coach them up better with the kids he recruits. I think UCLA has hit the ceiling with Mora. The Sark analog at UW is a good one. They'll always be hyped preseason as about to having a breakout season, but ultimately they will get around 8-9 wins, and an occasional season with 10 wins including bowl games. Mora has too many wtf losses. For the resources and the recruiting capital he has, they've underachieved his entire tenure. Same with $C but of course in a different manner.

beeasyed;842613135 said:

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not that far from beating USC/UCLA? on the basis of what? UCLA smacked us down after our bye week. USC played worse this year, and we were about the same, though a little better than last year.

since we're certainly not even close to either of them in recruiting, I guess we should hope both teams underperform, or hope their coaches leave.

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On the basis of not overreacting to one game.

KoreAmBear;842613143 said:

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The UCLA game was super weird in how they dominated us in 2015. The UCLA and Oregon games were both the wtf games. In 2014 against UCLA, we were about 20 yards (a call on Wadood for spearing Chris Harper should have gotten it done) from a game winning FG, and we were a worse team in 2014. With all the great recruiting Mora Jr. has done, like Sarkisian at UW, he has ultimately done jack squat. I think Sonny is a smarter coach than Mora, just that we don't have the recruits. Sonny has the potential to be a better coach -- and with this extension I am willing to give him a chance to coach them up better with the kids he recruits. I think UCLA has hit the ceiling with Mora. The Sark analog at UW is a good one. They'll always be hyped preseason as about to having a breakout season, but ultimately they will get around 8-9 wins, and an occasional season with 10 wins including bowl games. Mora has too many wtf losses. For the resources and the recruiting capital he has, they've underachieved his entire tenure. Same with $C but of course in a different manner.

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I've been hoping for that for the past few years, but Mora's squad has never won less than 9 games since he's taken over, with the occasional 10. they've hit 8 already this year, with a true frosh QB, a QB many said was overrated and an arrogant SOB. Sark had never won more than 7 games at UW until his final season. are those their respective ceilings?

maybe, but a coaching staff who can consistently land top notch recruits and average 9-win seasons is something Cal hasn't had in a decade. and, maybe one day UCLA will get tired of not getting over that hump, and upgrade coaches, but at least their roster will be stacked for the next HC. that's more than we can say. it's also a reason why hiring a good recruiter as HC is in some ways a lower risk--even if he fails, he'll leave the roster loaded, and the program more attractive to the next HC candidate.

oski003;842613154 said:

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On the basis of not overreacting to one game.

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pray tell on what basis you are claiming we're closing the gap w/ UCLA/U$C?

MoragaBear;842613160 said:

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Not without good coaching. It depends on good coaching, good qb and line play, depth, class balance and speed, IMO.

Jury's still out on the coaching. They have to start winning more games they're not supposed to win but consistently beating the teams they're supposed to beat like they've been doing is a good base to build up from. Goff made a nice difference. We'll see what Forrest, Gilliam, Bowers or a late JC add will do next season but in this offense, I think they'll be fine. The OL showed good signs of life late. The DL's been a little disappointing but they've added a lot of guys that could help when they develop in the '15 and '16 classes. Speed could be better but the last class was a nice speed upgrade and those guys will be playing in '16. Class balance and depth are much better than in the past.

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That's my sense, too. Cal needs this class to be a jumping point to better classes going forward, not a plateau. And even with that, Cal will always need to "stretch" more than the other teams to beat the big guys - better coaching, better player development and frankly, better luck. Maybe at some point Cal will recruit at par with UCLA/ OR/ Furd but not for a while.

beeasyed;842613157 said:

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I've been hoping for that for the past few years, but Mora's squad has never won less than 9 games since he's taken over, with the occasional 10. they've hit 8 already this year, with a true frosh QB, a QB many said was overrated and an arrogant SOB. Sark had never won more than 7 games at UW until his final season. are those their respective ceilings?

maybe, but a coaching staff who can consistently land top notch recruits and average 9-win seasons is something Cal hasn't had in a decade. and, maybe one day UCLA will get tired of not getting over that hump, and upgrade coaches, but at least their roster will be stacked for the next HC. that's more than we can say. it's also a reason why hiring a good recruiter as HC is in some ways a lower risk--even if he fails, he'll leave the roster loaded, and the program more attractive to the next HC candidate.




pray tell on what basis you are claiming we're closing the gap w/ UCLA/U$C?

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Well, they have one more win than us this season, and we almost beat them last year.

I said we were close. I hope we close the gap. It's not huge. And, yes, I understand that their top qb recruit beat us as a frosh and will be there 2 more years at least.

oski003;842613192 said:

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Well, they have one more win than us this season, and we almost beat them last year.

I said we were close. I hope we close the gap. It's not huge. And, yes, I understand that their top qb recruit beat us as a frosh and will be there 2 more years at least.

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We should have beaten them last year. The no call on the targeting by Woodard, the interception by Rios that would not have been ruled a catch if it was us killed us. Goff shouldn't have gone for it (IIRC we only needed a FG to win) and Lawler gave up on the ball for some reason. Everything went bad for us on those last two plays. This year's game would have been close if we would have made the 3 interceptions. This was one game where Kaufman's strategy did not work. The "chosen" doesn't do well with pressure but is a surgeon when he has time. The gap is not huge.

MoragaBear;842613160 said:

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Not without good coaching. It depends on good coaching, good qb and line play, depth, class balance and speed, IMO.

Jury's still out on the coaching. They have to start winning more games they're not supposed to win but consistently beating the teams they're supposed to beat like they've been doing is a good base to build up from. Goff made a nice difference. We'll see what Forrest, Gilliam, Bowers or a late JC add will do next season but in this offense, I think they'll be fine. The OL showed good signs of life late. The DL's been a little disappointing but they've added a lot of guys that could help when they develop in the '15 and '16 classes. Speed could be better but the last class was a nice speed upgrade and those guys will be playing in '16. Class balance and depth are much better than in the past.

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Are you saying there is a chance the team brings in a JC quarterback? If so, any names?

jerrod evans

list of QB commits/recruits with offers that I am aware of ...

2016 - Max Gilliam (Ventura County Thousand Oaks HS - committed and signed), Victor Viramontes (Inland Empire Norco HS), Jerrod Evans (JC)
2017 - Tyler Lytle (Orange County Servite HS)
2018 - Cameron Rising (Ventura County Newbury Park HS)
2019 - JT Daniels (Orange County Mater Dei HS)

MoragaBear;842613160 said:

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Class balance and depth are much better than in the past.

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How do you explain the lack of LB recruit in 15 and possibly 16? There is no depth there at all. With Downs, Barton and Anoai out, the LB position isn't even 2 deep for the bowl game. If anymore LB goes down, Air Force will be pounding Cal at will on the ground. As said in another thread, Dykes and Kaufman have poorly planned their recruiting priorities. Why are they still recruiting WR when it's so obvious Cal is already OVERloaded there but really thin on LB. Do they plan to convert smaller DE like Westerfield and Howard to OLB? Do those two have enough speed?

Usually you look at the position coach when something is as glaring as our whiffs on LB the last two years. Oh yeah. And how about the gross underperformance of the LB unit this year. Huh.

Chachere gotta go but won't happen cause he's linked to dykes at the hip

Eeyore;842617368 said:

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How do you explain the lack of LB recruit in 15 and possibly 16? There is no depth there at all. With Downs, Barton and Anoai out, the LB position isn't even 2 deep for the bowl game. If anymore LB goes down, Air Force will be pounding Cal at will on the ground. As said in another thread, Dykes and Kaufman have poorly planned their recruiting priorities. Why are they still recruiting WR when it's so obvious Cal is already OVERloaded there but really thin on LB. Do they plan to convert smaller DE like Westerfield and Howard to OLB? Do those two have enough speed?

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Between 2013, 14, and 15, we signed 11 linebackers, with 2014 being the biggest year. 2016 signing day is two months away.

oski003;842617400 said:

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Between 2013, 14, and 15, we signed 11 linebackers, with 2014 being the biggest year. 2016 signing day is two months away.

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misleading stats. and how did you get to 11?

[U]2013[/U]
Whitener (transferred)
Ragin (transferred)
Tandy (quit)
Davison

[U]2014[/U]
Kearney
Anoa'i
Downs
Leniu [didn't make it]
Wainwright [last ditch add, no longer on team]

[U]2015[/U]
(none)

- So after 2013, we see Whitener, and Ragin both leave. Tandy starts transitioning to rugby instead, as does Sina
- Recognizing the gaps, we take 4 guys. but drop the ball with Leniu, who doesn't qualify. take a flier on a nobody in Wainwright--no longer w/ team a year later

3 recruiting classes, 4 LBs. now we're top-heavy in juniors and seniors, 1 soph, and 1-2 frosh.

beeasyed;842617420 said:

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misleading stats. and how did you get to 11?

[U]2013[/U]
Whitener (transferred)
Ragin (transferred)
Tandy (quit)
Davison

[U]2014[/U]
Kearney
Anoa'i
Downs
Leniu [didn't make it]
Wainwright [last ditch add, no longer on team]

[U]2015[/U]
(none)

- So after 2013, we see Whitener, and Ragin both leave. Tandy starts transitioning to rugby instead, as does Sina
- Recognizing the gaps, we take 4 guys. but drop the ball with Leniu, who doesn't qualify. take a flier on a nobody in Wainwright--no longer w/ team a year later

3 recruiting classes, 4 LBs. now we're top-heavy in juniors and seniors, 1 soph, and 1-2 frosh.

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Porchovina, Saffle .

Anyway, this class isn't over and the problem is not simply recruiting. Besides, we run a 4-2-5 and 4-3. It is an issue but not of the scope described here.

oski003;842617464 said:

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Porchovina, Saffle .

Anyway, this class isn't over and the problem is not simply recruiting. Besides, we run a 4-2-5 and 4-3. It is an issue but not of the scope described here.

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Saffle doesn't count since he was recruited to play DE by Tate. With Porchovina, that's 10 LBs signed since 2013. Of these 10, only 4 is on the roster today. That's a huge red flag, regardless of 4-3 or 4-2. As Ed pointed out, the bigger issue will be 2017 when Barton, Nickerson and Kearney are gone. There will be almost no experienced depth then. That's what happens when you recruit no LB in 2015. Now 2016 is looking pretty bleak with only one commit from Texas and looks like he's sniffing around Nebraska and Vanderbilt. The rest of LB offer list have either committed elsewhere or shown little interest in Cal.

If you still don't think LB depth is a big issue, see what happens when Air Force pounds it on the ground against Cal.

Porch was brought in to play LB and Powell was brought in to play RB, to the displeasure of many. at least, according to the signing day releases.

Saffle was always being groomed to become a DE, and would've redshirted if it weren't for his insane training regimen.

those two aside, the balance is still a big issue, esp since the staff already knew of the problem going into the 2015 recruiting class. sure, the two frosh transfers you can blame on the bad season and Buh, but knowing that, how do you not offer 1-2 projects to develop?

sometimes it's a matter of recognizing one year's class may be weak at a position, but that wasn't really the case--we just had no traction. which ties into the point NCSF made: "how do you know FOR SURE Chach is a bad coach? how do you know it's not that his players are bad?"

well either he's not developing talent, not recruiting talent, or both. either way, that falls on the coaches. if you can't recruit, you must coach. if you can't coach, you better be able to recruit. if you can't do either......well, you're probably being given a raise at Cal.

Eeyore;842617478 said:

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Saffle doesn't count since he was recruited to play DE by Tate. With Porchovina, that's 10 LBs signed since 2013. Of these 10, only 4 is on the roster today. That's a huge red flag, regardless of 4-3 or 4-2. As Ed pointed out, the bigger issue will be 2017 when Barton, Nickerson and Kearney are gone. There will be almost no experienced depth then. That's what happens when you recruit no LB in 2015. Now 2016 is looking pretty bleak with only one commit from Texas and looks like he's sniffing around Nebraska and Vanderbilt. The rest of LB offer list have either committed elsewhere or shown little interest in Cal.

If you still don't think LB depth is a big issue, see what happens when Air Force pounds it on the ground against Cal.

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For the sake of accuracy and mathematics, 5 of 10 still on team. 6 of 11 if you count Saffle. Not 4.

You have a lot of concerns all jumbled together. Regardless, we do have depth issues at linebacker for a variety of reasons. Transfers and injuries will contribute to the Air Force game. We will beat Air Force.

oski003;842617509 said:

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For the sake of accuracy and mathematics, 5 of 10 still on team. 6 of 11 if you count Saffle. Not 4.

You have a lot of concerns all jumbled together. Regardless, we do have depth issues at linebacker for a variety of reasons. Transfers and injuries will contribute to the Air Force game. We will beat Air Force.

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name the 5. porch is at SJSU.

beeasyed;842617513 said:

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name the 5. porch is at SJSU.

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4!

Did I miss something about Saffle playing LB?

MoragaBear;842617620 said:

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No, you didn't miss anything. Saffle isn't or wasn't going to be a linebacker.

10 scholarship lb's with no one redshirting on a 4-3 and 4-2-5 defense is not light. That's more than 3 deep with no redshirts.

They're going to be light at lb for sure vs. Air Force but that's a function of excessive injuries at the position, not because they need more than their allotment of scholarship linebackers.

If you want to go by straight percentages, assuming they played 3 not 2 linebackers all the time, linebackers make up 13% of the 22 starters. 13% of 85 is 11, which they had till Wainwright became an academic casualty well after recruiting season ended.

They'll lose 1-2 lb's after this season and they'll bring in 2-3 to replace them.

You can complain about Chachere's recruiting ability and you won't get much argument from anyone but to insist that there's some idiotic positional scholarship imbalance doesn't jive with the numbers in the defense they run.

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I get your percentage calculation but don't you need more LBs on the team than the 13% because LBs are better suited to play special teams (outside the returners/gunners)? LBs are big enough to block and fast enough to chase in special teams. Do you think one of the reasons we sucked at special teams is that we have fewer LBs playing there than other college teams?

MoragaBear;842617651 said:

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Don't know the answer to that but return and kick coverage units sucked more than any season I can ever remember.

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Don't the answer either but it seems like the coverage teams were pretty small and the other team had an easy time blocking them. Worstell seemed to do well. Davison stood out a few times. I watched Muhammad as the outside guy on kickoff coverages but it seemed like a waste because he was going slow to form a line going down. Seems like if you want to use his speed, he should be the gunner on punt coverages like Best.

When they put offensive guys on kick coverage teams, I sure as hell hope they make sure they can tackle and get off blocks.

beeasyed;842617420 said:

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misleading stats. and how did you get to 11?

[U]2013[/U]
Whitener (transferred)
Ragin (transferred)
Tandy (quit)
Davison

[U]2014[/U]
Kearney
Anoa'i
Downs
Leniu [didn't make it]
Wainwright [last ditch add, no longer on team]

[U]2015[/U]
(none)

- So after 2013, we see Whitener, and Ragin both leave. Tandy starts transitioning to rugby instead, as does Sina
- Recognizing the gaps, we take 4 guys. but drop the ball with Leniu, who doesn't qualify. take a flier on a nobody in Wainwright--no longer w/ team a year later

3 recruiting classes, 4 LBs. now we're top-heavy in juniors and seniors, 1 soph, and 1-2 frosh.

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You forgot Tongilava

ayetee11;842617717 said:

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You forgot Tongilava

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you're right.

beeasyed;842617486 said:

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Porch was brought in to play LB and Powell was brought in to play RB, to the displeasure of many. at least, according to the signing day releases.

Saffle was always being groomed to become a DE, and would've redshirted if it weren't for his insane training regimen.

those two aside, the balance is still a big issue, esp since the staff already knew of the problem going into the 2015 recruiting class. sure, the two frosh transfers you can blame on the bad season and Buh, but knowing that, how do you not offer 1-2 projects to develop?

sometimes it's a matter of recognizing one year's class may be weak at a position, but that wasn't really the case--we just had no traction. which ties into the point NCSF made: "how do you know FOR SURE Chach is a bad coach? how do you know it's not that his players are bad?"

well either he's not developing talent, not recruiting talent, or both. either way, thatwere falls on the coaches. if you can't recruit, you must coach. if you can't coach, you better be able to recruit. if you can't do either......well, you're probably being given a raise at Cal.

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The linebackers that played were not recruited by the present coach so their goes that. You just don't know enough to judge. Most of us don't.

Let me take it a step farther- between football and baseball, I've coached for about 40 seasons. Been fortunate to work with some of the top minds in both sports and been allowed to sit in on game film sessions, go to national coaching seminars, etc. also sent 40 guys to the major leagues in baseball but, more importantly, over 40 guys to Cal. From all that experience, I've learned that you are a great coach commensurate with the talent you have. You can also coach guys up and put them in the right place and if they are physically not up to it, you won't make that tackle, field the ball in the hole, etc. you don't learn this stuff by posting about it or reading about it. It's like being in a lab. Until you are there, you just don't really know.

That's why your comment re Becker bothered me. You have no idea and based your opinion on stars and listening to others. Then you came across as a expert comparing him to another guy who is a HS kid. You can speculate but you have no clue. You would be better off speculating instead of coming across as an expert. Bottom line- the amount of posts made are not commensurate with knowledge. Look at Droski . I actually like that guy!

KoreAmBear;842613143 said:

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The UCLA game was super weird in how they dominated us in 2015. The UCLA and Oregon games were both the wtf games. In 2014 against UCLA, we were about 20 yards (a call on Wadood for spearing Chris Harper should have gotten it done) from a game winning FG, and we were a worse team in 2014. With all the great recruiting Mora Jr. has done, like Sarkisian at UW, he has ultimately done jack squat. I think Sonny is a smarter coach than Mora, just that we don't have the recruits. Sonny has the potential to be a better coach -- and with this extension I am willing to give him a chance to coach them up better with the kids he recruits. I think UCLA has hit the ceiling with Mora. The Sark analog at UW is a good one. They'll always be hyped preseason as about to having a breakout season, but ultimately they will get around 8-9 wins, and an occasional season with 10 wins including bowl games. Mora has too many wtf losses. For the resources and the recruiting capital he has, they've underachieved his entire tenure. Same with $C but of course in a different manner.

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Welcome back to the sunny side!

txwharfrat;842617942 said:

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Welcome back to the sunny side!

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Where's my swag?

Ncsf;842617914 said:

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That's why your comment re Becker bothered me. You have no idea and based your opinion on stars and listening to others. Then you came across as a expert comparing him to another guy who is a HS kid. You can speculate but you have no clue. You would be better off speculating instead of coming across as an expert. Bottom line- the amount of posts made are not commensurate with knowledge. Look at Droski . I actually like that guy!

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Watch a few games in Minnesota. then watch a JC game or two. then you'll get why I'm highly skeptical.

even without 40 years of coaching, one can see the difference between a Becker and a Weaver. and like you said yourself, one is a JC product, putting up mediocre numbers, and one is a HS kid, who is already dominating.

by no means have I claimed to be an expert. I'm just very comfortable playing the odds with the pickups we've made. I haven't said "no way this guy becomes a big contributor." I've only implied it's highly unlikely and that I think we can do better. I made similar remarks re: Markus Wright.

edit: also, as for parroting what analysts and others say...don't forget in this past offseason, you were strongly emphasizing how important it would be for us to land local talents, like 5* DL Jonah Williams. "recruiting our backyard" and such. then after being told repeatedly by recruiting people that Jonah's not even from the Bay originally ("SEC transplant") you've since backed off that claim of importance, and have parroted the same explanation you've been given. so let's not point fingers