txwharfrat said:

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socaltownie said:

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25To20 said:

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GMP said:

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Sure, but as I understand it, it's Wilcox's job to go up the chain of command on something like this. She says she also emailed Knowlton. She also does not say when she emailed them. If Wilcox sent the complaint up the chain, he shouldn't be fired.

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I am a manager, and if anyone in my company comes to me with a sexual harassment complaint, I will refer the complainer to the appropriate authority, and I will follow up with the appropriate authority to ensure the matter has been reported to them, and is being handled. To save my own butt, I will document all those conversations in email.

Also, note that the appropriate authority may not be up the chain of command, though it does not hurt to make one's boss aware of the situation. Especially in an organization the size of Cal, there is almost certainly an office that is charged with handling cases of alleged sexual harassment that is independent of the Athletics department.

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+1. This is standard stuff. It is covered in nearly every SH training course I have ever had to....which I BELIEVE is MANDATORY for higher education institutions receiving federal aid. You can actually usually always get the right answer on the quizes by answering "RUn, do not walk but run, to HR".

and again, #protip - do not ever ask a women to "cover up". SMH.

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I don't agree with that last statement. One of the most diffcult conversations I had to have was regarding the clothing that one female engineer wore to work in a open cubicle environment. It was an awkward but necessary discussion. It was a professional work environment and we needed people to dress professionally, not like it was a nightclub.

Now it was back in 2005 and HR was involved, but I wonder if the response would have been different in 2019. I hope not. Also, others female engineers were not allowed to wear similar clothing, so she wasn't singled out.

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How bad was it?

I'm sorry but I didn't read any further after she said she met a man at midnight who she felt was a sicko and stocking her. Its nonsensical. No woman would do that. I'm not saying she's lying but I had to reread it three times before simply moving on.
I did read a snippet somewhere else where she said she's dealing with mental illness, now that might explain why she went there for her mental illness would not allow her to think clearly and she was processing information wrong, either way don't they do background checks and wouldn't it not say somewhere that she's dealing with mental issues thus a high profile employer would probably not hire her.

If she's definitely got mental issues then I definitely side with her for it makes everything worst for she had the same ability to make major decisions as a child thus why she kept making wrong ones. Her mental illness actually makes this quite worst than simple Sexual Harassment.

Who hired her without talking to her fellow players I bet they knew based on her openness to admit it now.

based on the info she gave I'm betting its a former WR coach.

GMP said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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GMP said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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bearister said:

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evanstobrown said:

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Thanks Michael.
Critically evaluating her words leaves one with questions and doubts. The Cavanaugh accusers should be a reminder that motivations sometimes lead to malicious misinformation and accusations.
Beware the vindictive who feel cheated.

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After what is going in our country, especially the last few days, I am not letting any cheap shots pass by me. As a trial lawyer I evaluated the credibility of witnesses as part of my job for 36 years. My son does so as a prosecutor. My son and I, as well as all of my friends that are or were trial attorneys are of the opinion that Kavanaugh conducted himself as someone that is guilty as f@ck with regard to the charges made....so PLEASE, spare me that throwaway line in your post.

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Please. I can give you at least as many trial lawyers with even more experience who assess the witnesses as being completely full of ****. We assess credibility through a lease that's built on our world views, values and life experiences. Respectfully, your status as a trial attorney is not dispositive of the credibility issue any more than it is for the ones I could gather in 5 minutes.

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Give them, then. You have five minutes.

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I am not going to post people's full names. Initials: PS, FM, TB, JK, JW,

It was a divisive issue. Are you really shocked that 50% of people saw it the other way? It's silly to claim some sort of authoritative position on the issue of credibility / truthfulness of the witnesses.

---

(Apologies to everyone else for following this tangent)

Of course I didn't expect you to name names, I was just pointing out the hollowness of your claims.

To your substantive point, though: I didn't hear one person say she they didn't believe Blasey Ford. Even the ones who believed Kavanaugh was innocent believed that Blasey Ford was not lying and/or trying to score a political win, but that she earnestly believed something happened to her and it was him. I'm not shocked that many people saw that different ways, and I think either belief is reasonable.

But I can't believe any experienced trial lawyer thinks Kavanaugh was telling the truth about all the ancillary issues that I believe he perjured himself on - stuff like "Renate Alumni"..."ralph club"... (I forget the rest now). Those were such obvious and stupid lies. How about say, "I was 17 and I said some really dumb things, and that's not me now, 30 years later. But saying rude and hurtful things as a teenager doesn't mean I tried to rape someone, and doesn't affect my qualifications as a judge now." But lying under oath and not having the guts to own up to past mistakes certainly does affect his qualifications as judge now.

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Not to mention his deportment and temperament. Not fit to judge a pie-eating contest, let alone serious legal matters.

Goobear said:

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The truth will set us free. The board needs to stop speculating. Saying things like the head coach should go if true...well what if it is the opposite? Wait for the truth then there can be conversation....good or bad...

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C'mon Goo. Spring ball is over. All we have for the next 5 months is speculation - in matters great and small.

Yogi Bear said:

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https://www.facebook.com/paige.cornelius.73/posts/2166520706766113

PLEASE READ IF YOU CARE ABOUT MY SEXUAL HARASSMENT EXPERIENCE AND THE IGNORANCE OF THE CAL FOOTBALL STAFF:

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This is why we can't have nice things. Good night.

Yogi Bear said:

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packawana said:

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If she does have a legal team that's soliciting for corroborating witnesses, chances are they're going to find something and this is going to be drawn out. I think the university is going to have to, at minimum, suspend folks for the time being pending a full investigation.

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I'm not a fan of the concept of suspending someone absent evidence of malfeasance.

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I can understand the reluctance there but I think, especially this day in age, it's a better precautionary measure than not. It doesn't have to be suspension without pay until there is evidence of malfeasance, but it's a good way of demonstrating the school is taking the matter seriously until an investigation is complete.

packawana said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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packawana said:

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If she does have a legal team that's soliciting for corroborating witnesses, chances are they're going to find something and this is going to be drawn out. I think the university is going to have to, at minimum, suspend folks for the time being pending a full investigation.

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I'm not a fan of the concept of suspending someone absent evidence of malfeasance.

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I can understand the reluctance there but I think, especially this day in age, it's a better precautionary measure than not. It doesn't have to be suspension without pay until there is evidence of malfeasance, but it's a good way of demonstrating the school is taking the matter seriously until an investigation is complete.

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If they want to show that they're taking it seriously, make the investigation transparent and give updates. If they go dark with this and do 100% of it underground, people will assume a coverup.

Yogi Bear said:

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packawana said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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packawana said:

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If she does have a legal team that's soliciting for corroborating witnesses, chances are they're going to find something and this is going to be drawn out. I think the university is going to have to, at minimum, suspend folks for the time being pending a full investigation.

---

I'm not a fan of the concept of suspending someone absent evidence of malfeasance.

---

I can understand the reluctance there but I think, especially this day in age, it's a better precautionary measure than not. It doesn't have to be suspension without pay until there is evidence of malfeasance, but it's a good way of demonstrating the school is taking the matter seriously until an investigation is complete.

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If they want to show that they're taking it seriously, make the investigation transparent and give updates. If they go dark with this and do 100% of it underground, people will assume a coverup.

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The press release from Athletics specifically said:

Quote:

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Allegations of sexual violence and sexual harassment by campus employees are confidential unless officials determine policy is violated, and disciplinary action has been decided.

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So it doesn't look like there's going to be any transparency unless they decide to stop following UC policy.

TonyTiger said:

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I'm sorry but I didn't read any further after she said she met a man at midnight who she felt was a sicko and stocking her. Its nonsensical. No woman would do that. I'm not saying she's lying but I had to reread it three times before simply moving on.
I did read a snippet somewhere else where she said she's dealing with mental illness, now that might explain why she went there for her mental illness would not allow her to think clearly and she was processing information wrong, either way don't they do background checks and wouldn't it not say somewhere that she's dealing with mental issues thus a high profile employer would probably not hire her.

If she's definitely got mental issues then I definitely side with her for it makes everything worst for she had the same ability to make major decisions as a child thus why she kept making wrong ones. Her mental illness actually makes this quite worst than simple Sexual Harassment.

Who hired her without talking to her fellow players I bet they knew based on her openness to admit it now.

based on the info she gave I'm betting its a former WR coach.

---

i agree, she sounds like an absolute nut job based on her decision to go to the hotel room and to the party. she is an adult and chose to start drinking the tequila. what kind of sane and rational adult would go to a party filled with people she feels uncomfortable around and starts binge drinking.

that being said, hopefully wilcox and knowlton did what they are legally and morally required to do.

For those speculating about what coach made the comment about sex, I saw this in the espn article which I hadnt seen referenced here previously. Withholding judgment on all this until a investigation is done but it seems odd that she's be concerned about a volunteer assistant getting her fired. Gotta be much more to the story.

"The man who threatened to get Cornelius fired if she withheld sex from him was a volunteer assistant who is no longer with the program, a source told ESPN. It is unclear what led to his departure from Cal or when it occurred."

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/26318717/woman-accuses-cal-players-staff-harassment

txwharfrat said:

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socaltownie said:

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25To20 said:

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GMP said:

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Sure, but as I understand it, it's Wilcox's job to go up the chain of command on something like this. She says she also emailed Knowlton. She also does not say when she emailed them. If Wilcox sent the complaint up the chain, he shouldn't be fired.

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I am a manager, and if anyone in my company comes to me with a sexual harassment complaint, I will refer the complainer to the appropriate authority, and I will follow up with the appropriate authority to ensure the matter has been reported to them, and is being handled. To save my own butt, I will document all those conversations in email.

Also, note that the appropriate authority may not be up the chain of command, though it does not hurt to make one's boss aware of the situation. Especially in an organization the size of Cal, there is almost certainly an office that is charged with handling cases of alleged sexual harassment that is independent of the Athletics department.

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+1. This is standard stuff. It is covered in nearly every SH training course I have ever had to....which I BELIEVE is MANDATORY for higher education institutions receiving federal aid. You can actually usually always get the right answer on the quizes by answering "RUn, do not walk but run, to HR".

and again, #protip - do not ever ask a women to "cover up". SMH.

---

I don't agree with that last statement. One of the most diffcult conversations I had to have was regarding the clothing that one female engineer wore to work in a open cubicle environment. It was an awkward but necessary discussion. It was a professional work environment and we needed people to dress professionally, not like it was a nightclub.

Now it was back in 2005 and HR was involved, but I wonder if the response would have been different in 2019. I hope not. Also, others female engineers were not allowed to wear similar clothing, so she wasn't singled out.

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The issue is that you have to be equal. You can't tell one not to wear shorts and allow others to. You also have to be gender neutral (if possible) and so if you set the dress code.

There are HIGHLY compensated employment lawyers - probably some of this site - that will help you draft up a policy at $550 a hour ;-)

packawana said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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packawana said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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packawana said:

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If she does have a legal team that's soliciting for corroborating witnesses, chances are they're going to find something and this is going to be drawn out. I think the university is going to have to, at minimum, suspend folks for the time being pending a full investigation.

---

I'm not a fan of the concept of suspending someone absent evidence of malfeasance.

---

I can understand the reluctance there but I think, especially this day in age, it's a better precautionary measure than not. It doesn't have to be suspension without pay until there is evidence of malfeasance, but it's a good way of demonstrating the school is taking the matter seriously until an investigation is complete.

---

If they want to show that they're taking it seriously, make the investigation transparent and give updates. If they go dark with this and do 100% of it underground, people will assume a coverup.

---

The press release from Athletics specifically said:

Quote:

---

Allegations of sexual violence and sexual harassment by campus employees are confidential unless officials determine policy is violated, and disciplinary action has been decided.

---

So it doesn't look like there's going to be any transparency unless they decide to stop following UC policy.

---

And that is something to consider. There may well have been an investigation going on for MONTHS and, given the general tone in the facebook post, I am not sure we would have had the multi-paragraph digression to outline all the things the title IX office had or hadn't done.

When we finally heard about that bball scandal, the investigation had been going on for damn near a year.

Yogi Bear said:

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https://www.facebook.com/paige.cornelius.73/posts/2166520706766113

PLEASE READ IF YOU CARE ABOUT MY SEXUAL HARASSMENT EXPERIENCE AND THE IGNORANCE OF THE CAL FOOTBALL STAFF:

Wheres the accountability in collegiate revenue sports? Oh wait, there is none.
By Paige Elizabeth Cornelius
UC Berkeley 2020

"I will get you fired if you do not have sex with me" - member of the Cal Football Coaching Staff. Let it be known that this was said on the field, in the red zone, during a practice.

I think there is a significant portion of the population that looks at football players as misogynists, and walking examples of the toxic masculinity epidemic in our society. But what comes as a surprise is that I am not here to talk about players, I want to talk about the coaches. Highly paid, famous, revered when their team wins a national championship. I am an athlete, and I have been my whole life, so when I got the opportunity to work for the UC Berkeley team, I was excited beyond belief. Night games under the lights, adrenaline rushes and team spirit.

..fast forward to March 2019, and I am medically withdrawn from school, seeking intensive therapy and psychiatry for the post traumatic stress syndrome and anxiety that happened from the time I spent working for the Cal Football team.

I can already hear people saying "its your fault", "you brought it upon yourself". Why? Because I am a tall, attractive blonde girl who sticks out in a sea of sweaty, hyper masculine men on a football field. My first day at work I was excited, I love being in an athletic atmosphere, and I had always been a huge Cal fan. 6:30 AM rolls up, and I am already on the field as the players start to come out. Maybe because I am a new face in the sports medicine squad, but maybe for other reasons, I was being stared at up and down, by coaches and payers alike. Hours after practice my Instagram begins to blow up, DM's with creepy messages, asking me to come over, inviting me to parties. I'm in college this is normal, or what has been normalized, and I expected to get this from the players.

What I did not expect was the ruthless, endless, and persistent sex harassment from the coaches. Practices are cold in the morning, so I was wearing black leggings. I turn around and three coaches are in a huddle staring at my butt. I did not know what to do, I was so embarrassed. I am a financial aid student, I am here to make money not to be some object to look at. To prove my worth, and that I was not just some object, I was coming in early and leaving late, and never missed a shift.

Here starts the issues that truly kept me up at night and made me dread going to practice. I would hold water and gatorade bottles at practice, and one coach would only come up to me, out of all the other employees, no matter what side of the field I was on. He would stare at me, wink, and ask me to guess what he wanted. He would grab my arm and look at me with knowing eyes, and I would get so scared I would toss a bottle at him and runaway.

These harassments continued into the summer, when a new coach arrived. He somehow knew my name the next day at practice, and would corner me in the tunnel entrance to field, asking me deeply personal questions, like if I had a boyfriend and what my "type" is. He would not leave me alone at practice, following me around to each drill, making remarks on how I looked that day. To no surprise, he found me on Instagram, and starting messaging me, for which then I blocked him. One day after practice, I realized he was following me home, as he was supposed to be going in the opposite direction, but was keeping a close pace behind me before he caught up to me outside my front door. He asked me what I was doing that weekend, and that we should go to the pool, because "I would look amazing in a bikini". This coach is still employed by Cal Football, just to make that clear.

Another day, another coach found my Instagram, and liked all the pictures where I was wearing a bathing suit, even from years past. A player had given him my name, snapchat, and basically all forms of contact. When I did not reply to his messages, he would try to humiliate me in front of the players, yelling at me to do a job I was already doing. He would get especially upset when a player would talk to me, like he had formed some sort of territory over me.

This coach was so persistent in his text messages, and one night invited me over to the stadium offices at midnight, because I had noted that I was struggling with an economics class he had taken at another college. I was under the influence, and not legally in a state of mind to be consenting to sex. He snuck me into his office, I put my backpack and binder down, and he immediately grabbed for my waist. I was terrified, my mind was fuzzy, and I do not remember much from that night. He kept kissing me, pushing me against the wall, and I left.
The next day, he cornered me at practice and said "if you do not have sex with me,I will get you fired". I am a broke college student, I couldn't lose this job, and I was scared of him. Every night before a Cal home game, the team stays in the Claremont, luxury hotel nearby. I was staying there with my mom that night, as she was visiting me for the weekend. I get a text from the coach. "Meet me in my room". I couldn't let my mom down, if I got fired she wouldn't be able to support me, so I said I was leaving for the night. When I got to his room, I was scared, so I just laid on the bed and tried to make small talk. He started taking his clothes off. I started crying uncontrollably. He yelled at me to get out of him room, and that he could **** any girl he wanted. From that point on I was still working for the team.

As for the players, they would look at me in practice and make lewd remarks, but I had been working so hard for my promotion from hydrotech to sports medicine intern, so I let myself feel like a piece of meat at practice, and then go home and try to forget about it until the next day. If I responded please leave me alone to a DM, I was answered back with "Im going to treat you like the hoe that you are". This was a message sent to me by receiver Jordan Duncan, known among the sports medicine interns as a sexual harasser. He still starts. After an intense application process, I was interviewed for the promotion, by which I had a great interview and had the schedule they were looking for, and the desire to go to physical therapy school. In the end, I did not receive the position because they did not want me in the training room taking focus away from the players. Those that were hired were either men or unqualified applicants, but they all had in common is that they wouldn't be "distracting the players".

The other girls working for the team were allowed to wear jean shorts and tank tops, and I could not. Justin Wilcox, head coach made it a special rule that only I would have to wear shoulder covering shirts, clearly singling me out and humiliating me. When I wore shorts, they were staring at my legs, when I wore leggings they were staring at my butt. I have never felt more objectified in my life, and I still have nightmares, often it is a coach doing sexual things to me without my consent or following me home. I am not ok, I had to leave Berkeley. I have emailed Justin Wilcox, Jim Knowlton, our Athletic director, and called and emailed many other coaches and athletic administrators. No response. Why not? Because thats the business.

One night, I was invited over to a football house, where I was given vast amounts of tequila, to which I later realized, no one else was drinking that much. That night is also a little fuzzy, but i clearly remember the players talking to another saying "looks like we are gonna get lucky tonight". Thankfully my friends rescued me from the house, calling me an Uber. I slipped out the back door unnoticed. I am still learning to build back my confidence, but have lost months worth of salary from having to quit, plus the therapists and psychiatrists are costing up to $600 an hour. I am now behind a semester in college, so will have to graduate late.
But your mental and physical health do not matter when a revenue sport is involved. Shoutout to Jim Knowlton, Justin Wilcox, the Cal Athletics Administrative office for teaching me this lesson, and I hope to everyone ignoring my phone calls and emails, that you will see that I do not back down. Females to not back down. This is our time to change the game.

Cal Football, Your Time is Up.
Take Responsibility.

---

I'll say it. I smell plant. Her language is too inauthentic, like someone saying, "I feared for my life," when any normal person would say, "I thought he was gonna kill me."

Others have already pointed out her readiness to go places that anyone would have steered clear of, if true.

And, all of this happening to the same person? Capped off by what sounds like political rhetoric, "This is our time to change the game."

We'll see.

Based on the info I have...
The unnamed coach should be fired for having an inappropriate relationship with a student intern. Entire staff needs sexual harassment training. It sounds like she flirted and Wilcox was trying to get her to stop. Cal needs to investigate how her situation was handled when she reported the harassment. I am not sure that I see any actual issues with players even though Duncan's alleged behavior is not cool.

Reading the ESPN article it says the coach who told her he'd get her fired if she didn't have sex with him is no longer with the program...but the Facebook post suggest nothing was done?

However in the same article she says the coach is still employed...is there multiple coaches accused of assault?

I guess we will have to wait for more information.

"My gut tells me."

My favorite line in this thread, so far.

NVBear78 said:

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If you look at her profile on social media and the multitude of scantily clad and suggestive pictures she is still posting you will see she is seeking attention. Amazing to see her also using social media to troll for her coming lawsuit, is that what what plaintiff sexual harassment lawyers really encourage now?

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"We" know how they are.

Quote:

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If you look at her profile on social media and the multitude of scantily clad and suggestive pictures she is still posting you will see she is seeking attention. Amazing to see her also using social media to troll for her coming lawsuit, is that what what plaintiff sexual harassment lawyers really encourage now?

---

Really? I have only seen her Facebook page, and she is not wearing anything that is outside the norms of what people wear in the settings she is portrayed. Women at the beach often wear bikinis. Yes, it is "scantilly clad", but it is entirely normal. I saw nothing suggestive in the pictures whatsoever. In any case, even if she had the equivalent of a Playboy centerfold shot posted online, that would not justify any of the actions she alleges happened.

I don't know the facts, and I don't know if she is seeking attention, but her social media postings that I have seen do not suggest anything of the kind.

25To20 said:

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Quote:

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If you look at her profile on social media and the multitude of scantily clad and suggestive pictures she is still posting you will see she is seeking attention. Amazing to see her also using social media to troll for her coming lawsuit, is that what what plaintiff sexual harassment lawyers really encourage now?

---

Really? I have only seen her Facebook page, and she is not wearing anything that is outside the norms of what people wear in the settings she is portrayed. Women at the beach often wear bikinis. Yes, it is "scantilly clad", but it is entirely normal. I saw nothing suggestive in the pictures whatsoever. In any case, even if she had the equivalent of a Playboy centerfold shot posted online, that would not justify any of the actions she alleges happened.

I don't know the facts, and I don't know if she is seeking attention, but her social media postings that I have seen do not suggest anything of the kind.

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It's on Instagram. And probably not what her lawyer would want still posted from the woman claiming to be a victim of sexual harassment

25To20 said:

---

Quote:

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If you look at her profile on social media and the multitude of scantily clad and suggestive pictures she is still posting you will see she is seeking attention. Amazing to see her also using social media to troll for her coming lawsuit, is that what what plaintiff sexual harassment lawyers really encourage now?

---

Really? I have only seen her Facebook page, and she is not wearing anything that is outside the norms of what people wear in the settings she is portrayed. Women at the beach often wear bikinis. Yes, it is "scantilly clad", but it is entirely normal. I saw nothing suggestive in the pictures whatsoever. In any case, even if she had the equivalent of a Playboy centerfold shot posted online, that would not justify any of the actions she alleges happened.

I don't know the facts, and I don't know if she is seeking attention, but her social media postings that I have seen do not suggest anything of the kind.

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Personally, I don't believe it's the "norms" to have your public profile contain bikini pictures or for your primary photo to be in a bikini. Especially if you're attending a university and at the age where you would be applying for internships and jobs.

sycasey said:

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SurvivorOf1and10fkaLEA said:

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I spent over a decade representing small, medium, and some of the largest corporations in the US on the defense side of these types of lawsuits. The vast majority of these cases are frivolous and settle for costs-of-defense settlements with the plaintiff's lawyer taking 50% of the proceeds as their contingency fee.

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Just curious: how do you know they are frivolous? Was there external evidence proving such in most of these cases?

Nothing against you personally, but I would expect the lawyer for the company to usually hold that opinion.

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Likely frivolous from the corporate perspective but not from the human.

tequila4kapp said:

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Another Bear said:

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Agree, too early to judge or even analyze. I will say three things however:

a) False reporting is rare vs. real reports, like single digit % but when it happens it gets BIG press.
b) Most people never report this stuff, something like 80% never say anything.
c) Very little to gain by reporting, much to lose...which relates to b. Seems almost a no-win situation.

At this point, I'm going to give the intern the benefit of the doubt because she stands to gain nothing, could even hijjack her career, life. Let the investigation happen. I see no gain here except to help stop it. As for "it doesn't sound right"...toss that out the window.

Do you guys remember the 3-5 Cal students who sued UC because of the response/cover up to sexual harassment and rape? They did that after reporting...and they had to sue? None of this bodes well.

---

I completely disagree. In this current environment of "always believe the women" we are invited to check our brain at the door and not use common sense or critical thinking.

It is perfectly reasonable to question things like her going to the office inside the stadium at midnight while drunk, leaving her mother behind to meet a coach in his hotel room at night and being upset that a person likes your social media posts of yourself in a bikini. (Those invitations, if they happened, were horribly wrong. But the flip side has to be acknowledged too - what the hell is the women thinking going to meet them at those hours and locations? Under what circumstance does a hydration expert - water person - ever need to meet a coach in a hotel room? Is it even remotely believable that a student would seek help with an economics class from a football coach at midnight? Come on, there's some big self serving BS with her story).

My gut tells me there may have been sexual acts which the men believed to be consensual. On the whole I don't think most men say things like "I'm going to treat you like the hoe you are" just completely out of the blue. I won't be surprised if there are very different elements to this story from others.

---

Sorry but your gut means nothing in this case. You weren't there, you don't know her or the coach. Basing a gut instinct on heresay, interwebz fodder and before any real info is projection at best. You're speculating on a bunch of stuff...and the question is why are you speculating? My point is, I don't know what happened but clearly she gains nothing from this "exercise". I mean look at the hate and name calling already being spewed. What's the point?

Maybe attention is all she wants to achieve/ seeks to gain?

How does she gain nothing from this exercise? Is money now nothing? Are you being philosophical or being a clown?

I 90% side with the woman in this case and await further details. But absolutely, it's both degrading and insulting to women to not acknowledge that she is a grown adult and made some very questionable decisions, like going to the stadium at night, going to a party with men she feared and getting drunk, or going to the hotel room of the coach. None of that is excuseble, and for us to act like it's not her fault that she did those things is demeaning women to lesser individuals who can't be held accountable for their actions and need men to take care of them at all times.

This has made national news. Driving in the car, had KCBS on for traffic...national news comes on at the top of the hour, and it got 45 seconds to a minute. Not good.

Lets agree on somethings.....

A) Lets not blame the victim/accuser. That, sadly, is par for the course for about since forever. Some of it rings true, some of it not, and some of it true but causes us to once again conclude that 20 year olds make AWFUL decisions.

B) It is also possible (likely) that her frustration and venting is a function of the actual system WORKING - that if she didn't complain through the title IX/EOC office (or whomever handles that for Cal) her complaint could have been treated very seriously BUT she was unlikely to get a lot of hand holding and kept up to speed on events. Lots of reasons why - mostly prudent risk management on the part of the university.

C) The key for Wilcox really is did he follow the procedures. I think he did. Might have screwed up with the "cover up" stuff but that, sadly, lesson learned and welcome to the 21st century.

Guess? This is a sad one day news story. I hope the student gets the help she needs, gets back to Cal and finishes up her degree. I also hope the football team does well next year.

Finally, I want to seriously ask WHY someone (I know, violating "A" someone works their BUT off to get into Cal and then spends their free ****ing time as a hydration expert. My kid? I am FLYING up to Berkeley that say and dragging their ass out of CMS. Lets me blunt, I am not sure that should even BE a student position at Cal EXCEPT for kids that have a demonstrated interest in coaching/football because I can't imagine that it is a very elightening educational experience.

going4roses said:

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Maybe attention is all she wants to achieve/ seeks to gain?

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What do you believe, think or fell she wants to achieve/seek?