oskioski said:

---

Fyght4Cal said:

---

NVBear78 said:

---

flounder said:

---

TonyTiger said:

---

I'm sorry but I didn't read any further after she said she met a man at midnight who she felt was a sicko and stocking her. Its nonsensical. No woman would do that. I'm not saying she's lying but I had to reread it three times before simply moving on.
I did read a snippet somewhere else where she said she's dealing with mental illness, now that might explain why she went there for her mental illness would not allow her to think clearly and she was processing information wrong, either way don't they do background checks and wouldn't it not say somewhere that she's dealing with mental issues thus a high profile employer would probably not hire her.

If she's definitely got mental issues then I definitely side with her for it makes everything worst for she had the same ability to make major decisions as a child thus why she kept making wrong ones. Her mental illness actually makes this quite worst than simple Sexual Harassment.

Who hired her without talking to her fellow players I bet they knew based on her openness to admit it now.

based on the info she gave I'm betting its a former WR coach.

---

i agree, she sounds like an absolute nut job based on her decision to go to the hotel room and to the party. she is an adult and chose to start drinking the tequila. what kind of sane and rational adult would go to a party filled with people she feels uncomfortable around and starts binge drinking.

that being said, hopefully wilcox and knowlton did what they are legally and morally required to do.

---

If you look at her profile on social media and the multitude of scantily clad and suggestive pictures she is still posting you will see she is seeking attention. Amazing to see her also using social media to troll for her coming lawsuit, is that what what plaintiff sexual harassment lawyers really encourage now?

---

There is absolutely nothing inappropriate or attention-seeking in her Instagram. Unless it's being judged by an extreme religious conservative. A young SoCal woman in a bikini? Oh, the humanity!

---

you're kidding, right?

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

oskioski said:

---

Fyght4Cal said:

---

NVBear78 said:

---

flounder said:

---

TonyTiger said:

---

I'm sorry but I didn't read any further after she said she met a man at midnight who she felt was a sicko and stocking her. Its nonsensical. No woman would do that. I'm not saying she's lying but I had to reread it three times before simply moving on.
I did read a snippet somewhere else where she said she's dealing with mental illness, now that might explain why she went there for her mental illness would not allow her to think clearly and she was processing information wrong, either way don't they do background checks and wouldn't it not say somewhere that she's dealing with mental issues thus a high profile employer would probably not hire her.

If she's definitely got mental issues then I definitely side with her for it makes everything worst for she had the same ability to make major decisions as a child thus why she kept making wrong ones. Her mental illness actually makes this quite worst than simple Sexual Harassment.

Who hired her without talking to her fellow players I bet they knew based on her openness to admit it now.

based on the info she gave I'm betting its a former WR coach.

---

i agree, she sounds like an absolute nut job based on her decision to go to the hotel room and to the party. she is an adult and chose to start drinking the tequila. what kind of sane and rational adult would go to a party filled with people she feels uncomfortable around and starts binge drinking.

that being said, hopefully wilcox and knowlton did what they are legally and morally required to do.

---

If you look at her profile on social media and the multitude of scantily clad and suggestive pictures she is still posting you will see she is seeking attention. Amazing to see her also using social media to troll for her coming lawsuit, is that what what plaintiff sexual harassment lawyers really encourage now?

---

There is absolutely nothing inappropriate or attention-seeking in her Instagram. Unless it's being judged by an extreme religious conservative. A young SoCal woman in a bikini? Oh, the humanity!

---

you're kidding, right?

---

I know it was just 'my gut' and all but there you go...more to the story, and a much more nuanced story at that. Just as I predicted.

---

sunewoco said:

---

txwharfrat said:

---

You missed the two key points:

1) Her IG feed doesn't jive with her "poverty" story in the FB post.

---

I don't think her FB post indicated that she was in "poverty", just that she was a student on financial aid/possibly work-study who needed the job to help finance her studies. It's not as if working a job and going on trips are mutually exclusive, and if you take a look at the IG feed of an average modern-day sorority sister, you'll probably find a similar amount of vacationing and whatnot.
From her statement in the first OP:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

oskioski said:

---

Fyght4Cal said:

---

NVBear78 said:

---

flounder said:

---

TonyTiger said:

---

I'm sorry but I didn't read any further after she said she met a man at midnight who she felt was a sicko and stocking her. Its nonsensical. No woman would do that. I'm not saying she's lying but I had to reread it three times before simply moving on.
I did read a snippet somewhere else where she said she's dealing with mental illness, now that might explain why she went there for her mental illness would not allow her to think clearly and she was processing information wrong, either way don't they do background checks and wouldn't it not say somewhere that she's dealing with mental issues thus a high profile employer would probably not hire her.

If she's definitely got mental issues then I definitely side with her for it makes everything worst for she had the same ability to make major decisions as a child thus why she kept making wrong ones. Her mental illness actually makes this quite worst than simple Sexual Harassment.

Who hired her without talking to her fellow players I bet they knew based on her openness to admit it now.

based on the info she gave I'm betting its a former WR coach.

---

i agree, she sounds like an absolute nut job based on her decision to go to the hotel room and to the party. she is an adult and chose to start drinking the tequila. what kind of sane and rational adult would go to a party filled with people she feels uncomfortable around and starts binge drinking.

that being said, hopefully wilcox and knowlton did what they are legally and morally required to do.

---

If you look at her profile on social media and the multitude of scantily clad and suggestive pictures she is still posting you will see she is seeking attention. Amazing to see her also using social media to troll for her coming lawsuit, is that what what plaintiff sexual harassment lawyers really encourage now?

---

There is absolutely nothing inappropriate or attention-seeking in her Instagram. Unless it's being judged by an extreme religious conservative. A young SoCal woman in a bikini? Oh, the humanity!

---

you're kidding, right?

---

I know it was just 'my gut' and all but there you go...more to the story, and a much more nuanced story at that. Just as I predicted.

---

Alkiadt said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

oskioski said:

---

Fyght4Cal said:

---

NVBear78 said:

---

flounder said:

---

TonyTiger said:

---

I'm sorry but I didn't read any further after she said she met a man at midnight who she felt was a sicko and stocking her. Its nonsensical. No woman would do that. I'm not saying she's lying but I had to reread it three times before simply moving on.
I did read a snippet somewhere else where she said she's dealing with mental illness, now that might explain why she went there for her mental illness would not allow her to think clearly and she was processing information wrong, either way don't they do background checks and wouldn't it not say somewhere that she's dealing with mental issues thus a high profile employer would probably not hire her.

If she's definitely got mental issues then I definitely side with her for it makes everything worst for she had the same ability to make major decisions as a child thus why she kept making wrong ones. Her mental illness actually makes this quite worst than simple Sexual Harassment.

Who hired her without talking to her fellow players I bet they knew based on her openness to admit it now.

based on the info she gave I'm betting its a former WR coach.

---

i agree, she sounds like an absolute nut job based on her decision to go to the hotel room and to the party. she is an adult and chose to start drinking the tequila. what kind of sane and rational adult would go to a party filled with people she feels uncomfortable around and starts binge drinking.

that being said, hopefully wilcox and knowlton did what they are legally and morally required to do.

---

If you look at her profile on social media and the multitude of scantily clad and suggestive pictures she is still posting you will see she is seeking attention. Amazing to see her also using social media to troll for her coming lawsuit, is that what what plaintiff sexual harassment lawyers really encourage now?

---

There is absolutely nothing inappropriate or attention-seeking in her Instagram. Unless it's being judged by an extreme religious conservative. A young SoCal woman in a bikini? Oh, the humanity!

---

you're kidding, right?

---

I know it was just 'my gut' and all but there you go...more to the story, and a much more nuanced story at that. Just as I predicted.

---

Lol....not feeling too sympathetic here.

---

packawana said:

---

The amount of fixation over what she's wearing on her IG is exactly what's wrong with this situation. Why the hell would any of that excuse a person harrassing her?

---

NVBear78 said:

---

It is really inappropriate to make and post on a public forum a made up image like that for a serious issue like this. I really hope the moderators (or the poster) delete it...

You never know who will wander in and think it is real.


My two cents.

---

okaydo said:

---

At least they didn't use "UC Berkeley" in the headline.

---

oskioski said:

---

Fyght4Cal said:

---

NVBear78 said:

---

flounder said:

---

TonyTiger said:

---

I'm sorry but I didn't read any further after she said she met a man at midnight who she felt was a sicko and stocking her. Its nonsensical. No woman would do that. I'm not saying she's lying but I had to reread it three times before simply moving on.
I did read a snippet somewhere else where she said she's dealing with mental illness, now that might explain why she went there for her mental illness would not allow her to think clearly and she was processing information wrong, either way don't they do background checks and wouldn't it not say somewhere that she's dealing with mental issues thus a high profile employer would probably not hire her.

If she's definitely got mental issues then I definitely side with her for it makes everything worst for she had the same ability to make major decisions as a child thus why she kept making wrong ones. Her mental illness actually makes this quite worst than simple Sexual Harassment.

Who hired her without talking to her fellow players I bet they knew based on her openness to admit it now.

based on the info she gave I'm betting its a former WR coach.

---

i agree, she sounds like an absolute nut job based on her decision to go to the hotel room and to the party. she is an adult and chose to start drinking the tequila. what kind of sane and rational adult would go to a party filled with people she feels uncomfortable around and starts binge drinking.

that being said, hopefully wilcox and knowlton did what they are legally and morally required to do.

---

If you look at her profile on social media and the multitude of scantily clad and suggestive pictures she is still posting you will see she is seeking attention. Amazing to see her also using social media to troll for her coming lawsuit, is that what what plaintiff sexual harassment lawyers really encourage now?

---

There is absolutely nothing inappropriate or attention-seeking in her Instagram. Unless it's being judged by an extreme religious conservative. A young SoCal woman in a bikini? Oh, the humanity!

---

you're kidding, right?

---

Fyght4Cal said:

---

oskioski said:

---

Fyght4Cal said:

---

NVBear78 said:

---

flounder said:

---

TonyTiger said:

---

I'm sorry but I didn't read any further after she said she met a man at midnight who she felt was a sicko and stocking her. Its nonsensical. No woman would do that. I'm not saying she's lying but I had to reread it three times before simply moving on.
I did read a snippet somewhere else where she said she's dealing with mental illness, now that might explain why she went there for her mental illness would not allow her to think clearly and she was processing information wrong, either way don't they do background checks and wouldn't it not say somewhere that she's dealing with mental issues thus a high profile employer would probably not hire her.

If she's definitely got mental issues then I definitely side with her for it makes everything worst for she had the same ability to make major decisions as a child thus why she kept making wrong ones. Her mental illness actually makes this quite worst than simple Sexual Harassment.

Who hired her without talking to her fellow players I bet they knew based on her openness to admit it now.

based on the info she gave I'm betting its a former WR coach.

---

i agree, she sounds like an absolute nut job based on her decision to go to the hotel room and to the party. she is an adult and chose to start drinking the tequila. what kind of sane and rational adult would go to a party filled with people she feels uncomfortable around and starts binge drinking.

that being said, hopefully wilcox and knowlton did what they are legally and morally required to do.

---

If you look at her profile on social media and the multitude of scantily clad and suggestive pictures she is still posting you will see she is seeking attention. Amazing to see her also using social media to troll for her coming lawsuit, is that what what plaintiff sexual harassment lawyers really encourage now?

---

There is absolutely nothing inappropriate or attention-seeking in her Instagram. Unless it's being judged by an extreme religious conservative. A young SoCal woman in a bikini? Oh, the humanity!

---

you're kidding, right?

---

P.T. Barnum was right. Every darn minute.

---

BearGoggles said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

There have been several posts indicating that the women's story should be believed because false reports of crimes - particularly sexual harassment and rape - are rare. Most claims are true, but many are not.

I think in today's world, it is not accurate to suggest that a claimed victim has nothing to gain. Aside from potential legal recoveries (which have always been available), in today's world a claimed victim gets a ton of attention, the very coveted victim status, and an opportunity to promote an agenda (or in some cases, exact vengeance and/or revenge). The [url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-attack-hoax-allegation-bogus-police-reports-real-harm/2936672002/][/url]Jussie Smollett episode is only the most recent example. Understandably, many of us can't fathom that a famous relatively wealthy person would make a false claim. Yet is seems almost certain he did.
[url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-attack-hoax-allegation-bogus-police-reports-real-harm/2936672002/][/url]
There is reporting that false claims are more common than thought. In addition, many of the Title IX claims being litigated in courts on a nationwide basis have shown that the claims are sometimes made with improper motive (i.e., claims made after consensual relationships ended badly).

In this case (every case), the woman's claims should be fully investigated. But it sure seems that there's more to the story. I'm open to all possibilities, but I find it very difficult to believe that complaints were submitted to (and received by) JW or Cal admin and ignored.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/7/false-sex-assault-reports-not-rare-reported-studie/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/another-sexual-assault-acquittal-reaffirms-the-need-to-believeevidence/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/17/sexual-assault-allegations-wait-facts-former-prosecutor-column/1659190002/

---

I'm responding to you BG, but this isn't aimed at you. I AM picking on one phrase in your post as I think it is representative of a ton of posts here. That phrase is "I find it hard to believe..." I'm seeing this sentiment on both sides. Relatively neutral posts arguing we wait and see followed by a "I find it hard to believe" statement.
I'm sorry, if you live in this world, I find it hard to believe that any of you are so out of it that you still find anything hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that people do scumbag things like are accused here. But it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that people make false accusations. But it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that smart people who receive these reports don't handle them properly, but it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe (and frankly it hurts my heart) that any woman would feel such lack of empowerment to essentially not stand up to bullying to the point where they go to parties or others hotel rooms, but it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I don't find her story hard to believe. I don't find the possibility that she has made it up or exaggerated it hard to believe. I don't find the concept that Cal has done everything correctly hard to believe. I don't find the idea that Cal has failed miserably hard to believe. All of this has been seen over and over.

So here is what I'm going to do until I find out more. I'm going to treat this woman as if she is telling the truth. I'm going to treat the accused as if they are telling the truth.

And I'm going to submit to all of you that no one here is neutral. I think it is safe to say we all hope this is untrue. No one wants to think a young woman went through this. No one wants to think any of our representatives would do this. And let's face it, this would be severely damaging to our football program, and we are on a Cal football board because we care about the fate of our football program. (I would submit that if somehow I could demonstrate that her claims being true would somehow lead to a Rose Bowl while not hurting the reputation of the program, she would garner a lot more sympathy). On the flip side, a lot of people are also inclined to take a societal problem and statistics and apply them to an individual case when that is just not appropropriate.

And I don't claim to be neutral on this issue. The discussions around all of these cases always makes me uncomfortable. Sexual harassment and assault are not false reported any more than any other crime. Which is to say about 6-10% false reporting rate. That is certainly high enough to take the possibility of a false report seriously whether it is a pickpocketing or a sexual assault. What makes me uncomfortable is the speculation as to reasons. Hell, I don't know why anyone would false report anything. But they do. However, the woman scorned, gold digger, **** stories that can be made up spill over on the accuser, and speculation is just not helpful either in the individual case or in the societal case.

As I said, I am not neutral. I have daughters. The statistics are frightening. And as a society we have just flat out been horrible in prosecuting these types of cases. Sexual assault is about the easiest crime to get away with. The percentage of perpetrators that see jail time is shockingly low. In sheer numbers, the number of victims who do not see justice just swamps the number of innocent people who ever see consequences for a crime they don't commit. We really need to do something about this.

However, societal statistics don't mean a damned thing when it comes to an individual case. We've got to stop treating them like they do. And individual cases don't mean squat when it comes to judging a societal problem. We can't put the baggage of all of our history on every individual case. The question of innocence or guilt of an individual accused has nothing to do with how many people were unjustly let go or convicted in the past.

What we can do is stop jumping to conclusions on both sides. What we really must do is start treating all sides with fairness. Stop defending people you think you know. Stop judging situations you think you understand.

In this case, she has made claims that should produce witnesses. They don't always, but I'm hoping that there are enough good people in this world that someone will support her if they can corroborate. Even more importantly, she has made claims of communications that should be provable if they occurred.

What I ask is that Cal do a neutral and competent investigation and for everyone to treat EVERYBODY in the situation with respect until we know more. There will be plenty of time to cast stones at the accuser if she is lying or the accused if she is telling the truth.

---

What I found hard to believe (the allegation that Wilcox and Knowlton didn't report) has since been confirmed by Cal's statement - Wilcox and the AD immediately reported the complaint. Could they be lying? I suppose. But, again, I highly doubt that. Weighing credibility (as I'm doing) and pointing to obvious holes/discrepancies in the women's claims (not to mention how she chose to publish them) is not jumping to a conclusion. It is critical thinking.

You have posted a bunch of disputable statistics and then (correctly) said the statistics don't matter in an individual case. You don't indicate where your 6-10% claimed false reporting rate comes from. The numbers I've found are all over the place - I think in part because it is unclear how to classify cases that are reported and which are not prosecuted/ajudicated (i.e., it is hard to tell if it a criminal complaint is false or just not supported by enough evidence to pursue). It also depends on how the "harassment" is defined - the most commonly cited studies in that regard had an unreasonably broad definition of harassment which included behaviors that many would not consider harassment (such as pickup lines) and certainly were not "assault".

Finally, I think its wrong to conflate statistics regarding sexual assault, which is typically a criminal matter, with harassment claims which are typically civil (and in some cases, such as at Cal, also administrative). I think there is a much greater risk of false/unfair claims in the civil/administrative setting, particularly given the current #metoo environment where the scales are heavily tipped in favor of the "victim," who "must be believed" and receives instant victim status.

All of this was to address earlier posts where people said they believed the woman because false reports are rare and "what does she have to gain" (aka the Jussie Smollett defense) I'll stand by my original statement that the number of false claims is not as low as people like to think and that there are many reasons a person might present a false claim - if you doubt this look at the comments to the women's facebook post. Beyond that, I join you in hoping that Cal will do a fair and competent investigation. Unfortunately, due to privacy concerns and rules, we will likely never now the details and, if innocent people have been wrongly accused, their reputations will never be fully restored because they won't be able to speak about it.

---

BearGoggles said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

There have been several posts indicating that the women's story should be believed because false reports of crimes - particularly sexual harassment and rape - are rare. Most claims are true, but many are not.

I think in today's world, it is not accurate to suggest that a claimed victim has nothing to gain. Aside from potential legal recoveries (which have always been available), in today's world a claimed victim gets a ton of attention, the very coveted victim status, and an opportunity to promote an agenda (or in some cases, exact vengeance and/or revenge). The [url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-attack-hoax-allegation-bogus-police-reports-real-harm/2936672002/][/url]Jussie Smollett episode is only the most recent example. Understandably, many of us can't fathom that a famous relatively wealthy person would make a false claim. Yet is seems almost certain he did.
[url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-attack-hoax-allegation-bogus-police-reports-real-harm/2936672002/][/url]
There is reporting that false claims are more common than thought. In addition, many of the Title IX claims being litigated in courts on a nationwide basis have shown that the claims are sometimes made with improper motive (i.e., claims made after consensual relationships ended badly).

In this case (every case), the woman's claims should be fully investigated. But it sure seems that there's more to the story. I'm open to all possibilities, but I find it very difficult to believe that complaints were submitted to (and received by) JW or Cal admin and ignored.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/7/false-sex-assault-reports-not-rare-reported-studie/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/another-sexual-assault-acquittal-reaffirms-the-need-to-believeevidence/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/17/sexual-assault-allegations-wait-facts-former-prosecutor-column/1659190002/

---

I'm responding to you BG, but this isn't aimed at you. I AM picking on one phrase in your post as I think it is representative of a ton of posts here. That phrase is "I find it hard to believe..." I'm seeing this sentiment on both sides. Relatively neutral posts arguing we wait and see followed by a "I find it hard to believe" statement.
I'm sorry, if you live in this world, I find it hard to believe that any of you are so out of it that you still find anything hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that people do scumbag things like are accused here. But it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that people make false accusations. But it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that smart people who receive these reports don't handle them properly, but it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe (and frankly it hurts my heart) that any woman would feel such lack of empowerment to essentially not stand up to bullying to the point where they go to parties or others hotel rooms, but it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I don't find her story hard to believe. I don't find the possibility that she has made it up or exaggerated it hard to believe. I don't find the concept that Cal has done everything correctly hard to believe. I don't find the idea that Cal has failed miserably hard to believe. All of this has been seen over and over.

So here is what I'm going to do until I find out more. I'm going to treat this woman as if she is telling the truth. I'm going to treat the accused as if they are telling the truth.

And I'm going to submit to all of you that no one here is neutral. I think it is safe to say we all hope this is untrue. No one wants to think a young woman went through this. No one wants to think any of our representatives would do this. And let's face it, this would be severely damaging to our football program, and we are on a Cal football board because we care about the fate of our football program. (I would submit that if somehow I could demonstrate that her claims being true would somehow lead to a Rose Bowl while not hurting the reputation of the program, she would garner a lot more sympathy). On the flip side, a lot of people are also inclined to take a societal problem and statistics and apply them to an individual case when that is just not appropropriate.

And I don't claim to be neutral on this issue. The discussions around all of these cases always makes me uncomfortable. Sexual harassment and assault are not false reported any more than any other crime. Which is to say about 6-10% false reporting rate. That is certainly high enough to take the possibility of a false report seriously whether it is a pickpocketing or a sexual assault. What makes me uncomfortable is the speculation as to reasons. Hell, I don't know why anyone would false report anything. But they do. However, the woman scorned, gold digger, **** stories that can be made up spill over on the accuser, and speculation is just not helpful either in the individual case or in the societal case.

As I said, I am not neutral. I have daughters. The statistics are frightening. And as a society we have just flat out been horrible in prosecuting these types of cases. Sexual assault is about the easiest crime to get away with. The percentage of perpetrators that see jail time is shockingly low. In sheer numbers, the number of victims who do not see justice just swamps the number of innocent people who ever see consequences for a crime they don't commit. We really need to do something about this.

However, societal statistics don't mean a damned thing when it comes to an individual case. We've got to stop treating them like they do. And individual cases don't mean squat when it comes to judging a societal problem. We can't put the baggage of all of our history on every individual case. The question of innocence or guilt of an individual accused has nothing to do with how many people were unjustly let go or convicted in the past.

What we can do is stop jumping to conclusions on both sides. What we really must do is start treating all sides with fairness. Stop defending people you think you know. Stop judging situations you think you understand.

In this case, she has made claims that should produce witnesses. They don't always, but I'm hoping that there are enough good people in this world that someone will support her if they can corroborate. Even more importantly, she has made claims of communications that should be provable if they occurred.

What I ask is that Cal do a neutral and competent investigation and for everyone to treat EVERYBODY in the situation with respect until we know more. There will be plenty of time to cast stones at the accuser if she is lying or the accused if she is telling the truth.

---

What I found hard to believe (the allegation that Wilcox and Knowlton didn't report) has since been confirmed by Cal's statement - Wilcox and the AD immediately reported the complaint. Could they be lying? I suppose. But, again, I highly doubt that. Weighing credibility (as I'm doing) and pointing to obvious holes/discrepancies in the women's claims (not to mention how she chose to publish them) is not jumping to a conclusion. It is critical thinking.

You have posted a bunch of disputable statistics and then (correctly) said the statistics don't matter in an individual case. You don't indicate where your 6-10% claimed false reporting rate comes from. The numbers I've found are all over the place - I think in part because it is unclear how to classify cases that are reported and which are not prosecuted/ajudicated (i.e., it is hard to tell if it a criminal complaint is false or just not supported by enough evidence to pursue). It also depends on how the "harassment" is defined - the most commonly cited studies in that regard had an unreasonably broad definition of harassment which included behaviors that many would not consider harassment (such as pickup lines) and certainly were not "assault".

Finally, I think its wrong to conflate statistics regarding sexual assault, which is typically a criminal matter, with harassment claims which are typically civil (and in some cases, such as at Cal, also administrative). I think there is a much greater risk of false/unfair claims in the civil/administrative setting, particularly given the current #metoo environment where the scales are heavily tipped in favor of the "victim," who "must be believed" and receives instant victim status.

All of this was to address earlier posts where people said they believed the woman because false reports are rare and "what does she have to gain" (aka the Jussie Smollett defense) I'll stand by my original statement that the number of false claims is not as low as people like to think and that there are many reasons a person might present a false claim - if you doubt this look at the comments to the women's facebook post. Beyond that, I join you in hoping that Cal will do a fair and competent investigation. Unfortunately, due to privacy concerns and rules, we will likely never now the details and, if innocent people have been wrongly accused, their reputations will never be fully restored because they won't be able to speak about it.

---

GMP said:

---

NYCGOBEARS said:

---

oskioski said:

---

Fyght4Cal said:

---

NVBear78 said:

---

flounder said:

---

TonyTiger said:

---

I'm sorry but I didn't read any further after she said she met a man at midnight who she felt was a sicko and stocking her. Its nonsensical. No woman would do that. I'm not saying she's lying but I had to reread it three times before simply moving on.
I did read a snippet somewhere else where she said she's dealing with mental illness, now that might explain why she went there for her mental illness would not allow her to think clearly and she was processing information wrong, either way don't they do background checks and wouldn't it not say somewhere that she's dealing with mental issues thus a high profile employer would probably not hire her.

If she's definitely got mental issues then I definitely side with her for it makes everything worst for she had the same ability to make major decisions as a child thus why she kept making wrong ones. Her mental illness actually makes this quite worst than simple Sexual Harassment.

Who hired her without talking to her fellow players I bet they knew based on her openness to admit it now.

based on the info she gave I'm betting its a former WR coach.

---

i agree, she sounds like an absolute nut job based on her decision to go to the hotel room and to the party. she is an adult and chose to start drinking the tequila. what kind of sane and rational adult would go to a party filled with people she feels uncomfortable around and starts binge drinking.

that being said, hopefully wilcox and knowlton did what they are legally and morally required to do.

---

If you look at her profile on social media and the multitude of scantily clad and suggestive pictures she is still posting you will see she is seeking attention. Amazing to see her also using social media to troll for her coming lawsuit, is that what what plaintiff sexual harassment lawyers really encourage now?

---

There is absolutely nothing inappropriate or attention-seeking in her Instagram. Unless it's being judged by an extreme religious conservative. A young SoCal woman in a bikini? Oh, the humanity!

---

you're kidding, right?

---

is that real?

---

No, of course not. (1) That's not her username; (2) "paigefinstacorn" is obviously fake (finsta); (3) It even says "meme".

---

bearister said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

There have been several posts indicating that the women's story should be believed because false reports of crimes - particularly sexual harassment and rape - are rare. Most claims are true, but many are not.

I think in today's world, it is not accurate to suggest that a claimed victim has nothing to gain. Aside from potential legal recoveries (which have always been available), in today's world a claimed victim gets a ton of attention, the very coveted victim status, and an opportunity to promote an agenda (or in some cases, exact vengeance and/or revenge). The [url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-attack-hoax-allegation-bogus-police-reports-real-harm/2936672002/][/url]Jussie Smollett episode is only the most recent example. Understandably, many of us can't fathom that a famous relatively wealthy person would make a false claim. Yet is seems almost certain he did.
[url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-attack-hoax-allegation-bogus-police-reports-real-harm/2936672002/][/url]
There is reporting that false claims are more common than thought. In addition, many of the Title IX claims being litigated in courts on a nationwide basis have shown that the claims are sometimes made with improper motive (i.e., claims made after consensual relationships ended badly).

In this case (every case), the woman's claims should be fully investigated. But it sure seems that there's more to the story. I'm open to all possibilities, but I find it very difficult to believe that complaints were submitted to (and received by) JW or Cal admin and ignored.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/7/false-sex-assault-reports-not-rare-reported-studie/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/another-sexual-assault-acquittal-reaffirms-the-need-to-believeevidence/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/17/sexual-assault-allegations-wait-facts-former-prosecutor-column/1659190002/

---

I'm responding to you BG, but this isn't aimed at you. I AM picking on one phrase in your post as I think it is representative of a ton of posts here. That phrase is "I find it hard to believe..." I'm seeing this sentiment on both sides. Relatively neutral posts arguing we wait and see followed by a "I find it hard to believe" statement.
I'm sorry, if you live in this world, I find it hard to believe that any of you are so out of it that you still find anything hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that people do scumbag things like are accused here. But it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that people make false accusations. But it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that smart people who receive these reports don't handle them properly, but it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe (and frankly it hurts my heart) that any woman would feel such lack of empowerment to essentially not stand up to bullying to the point where they go to parties or others hotel rooms, but it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I don't find her story hard to believe. I don't find the possibility that she has made it up or exaggerated it hard to believe. I don't find the concept that Cal has done everything correctly hard to believe. I don't find the idea that Cal has failed miserably hard to believe. All of this has been seen over and over.

So here is what I'm going to do until I find out more. I'm going to treat this woman as if she is telling the truth. I'm going to treat the accused as if they are telling the truth.

And I'm going to submit to all of you that no one here is neutral. I think it is safe to say we all hope this is untrue. No one wants to think a young woman went through this. No one wants to think any of our representatives would do this. And let's face it, this would be severely damaging to our football program, and we are on a Cal football board because we care about the fate of our football program. (I would submit that if somehow I could demonstrate that her claims being true would somehow lead to a Rose Bowl while not hurting the reputation of the program, she would garner a lot more sympathy). On the flip side, a lot of people are also inclined to take a societal problem and statistics and apply them to an individual case when that is just not appropropriate.

And I don't claim to be neutral on this issue. The discussions around all of these cases always makes me uncomfortable. Sexual harassment and assault are not false reported any more than any other crime. Which is to say about 6-10% false reporting rate. That is certainly high enough to take the possibility of a false report seriously whether it is a pickpocketing or a sexual assault. What makes me uncomfortable is the speculation as to reasons. Hell, I don't know why anyone would false report anything. But they do. However, the woman scorned, gold digger, **** stories that can be made up spill over on the accuser, and speculation is just not helpful either in the individual case or in the societal case.

As I said, I am not neutral. I have daughters. The statistics are frightening. And as a society we have just flat out been horrible in prosecuting these types of cases. Sexual assault is about the easiest crime to get away with. The percentage of perpetrators that see jail time is shockingly low. In sheer numbers, the number of victims who do not see justice just swamps the number of innocent people who ever see consequences for a crime they don't commit. We really need to do something about this.

However, societal statistics don't mean a damned thing when it comes to an individual case. We've got to stop treating them like they do. And individual cases don't mean squat when it comes to judging a societal problem. We can't put the baggage of all of our history on every individual case. The question of innocence or guilt of an individual accused has nothing to do with how many people were unjustly let go or convicted in the past.

What we can do is stop jumping to conclusions on both sides. What we really must do is start treating all sides with fairness. Stop defending people you think you know. Stop judging situations you think you understand.

In this case, she has made claims that should produce witnesses. They don't always, but I'm hoping that there are enough good people in this world that someone will support her if they can corroborate. Even more importantly, she has made claims of communications that should be provable if they occurred.

What I ask is that Cal do a neutral and competent investigation and for everyone to treat EVERYBODY in the situation with respect until we know more. There will be plenty of time to cast stones at the accuser if she is lying or the accused if she is telling the truth.

---

What I found hard to believe (the allegation that Wilcox and Knowlton didn't report) has since been confirmed by Cal's statement - Wilcox and the AD immediately reported the complaint. Could they be lying? I suppose. But, again, I highly doubt that. Weighing credibility (as I'm doing) and pointing to obvious holes/discrepancies in the women's claims (not to mention how she chose to publish them) is not jumping to a conclusion. It is critical thinking.

You have posted a bunch of disputable statistics and then (correctly) said the statistics don't matter in an individual case. You don't indicate where your 6-10% claimed false reporting rate comes from. The numbers I've found are all over the place - I think in part because it is unclear how to classify cases that are reported and which are not prosecuted/ajudicated (i.e., it is hard to tell if it a criminal complaint is false or just not supported by enough evidence to pursue). It also depends on how the "harassment" is defined - the most commonly cited studies in that regard had an unreasonably broad definition of harassment which included behaviors that many would not consider harassment (such as pickup lines) and certainly were not "assault".

Finally, I think its wrong to conflate statistics regarding sexual assault, which is typically a criminal matter, with harassment claims which are typically civil (and in some cases, such as at Cal, also administrative). I think there is a much greater risk of false/unfair claims in the civil/administrative setting, particularly given the current #metoo environment where the scales are heavily tipped in favor of the "victim," who "must be believed" and receives instant victim status.

All of this was to address earlier posts where people said they believed the woman because false reports are rare and "what does she have to gain" (aka the Jussie Smollett defense) I'll stand by my original statement that the number of false claims is not as low as people like to think and that there are many reasons a person might present a false claim - if you doubt this look at the comments to the women's facebook post. Beyond that, I join you in hoping that Cal will do a fair and competent investigation. Unfortunately, due to privacy concerns and rules, we will likely never now the details and, if innocent people have been wrongly accused, their reputations will never be fully restored because they won't be able to speak about it.

---

Is there any truth to the rumor that BI is offering a free Write like Hemingway seminar?

"I'm clear enough in the head, he thought. Too clear. I am as clear as the stars that are my brothers."
From: "The Old Man and the Sea," by Ernest Hemingway

---

BearGoggles said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

There have been several posts indicating that the women's story should be believed because false reports of crimes - particularly sexual harassment and rape - are rare. Most claims are true, but many are not.

I think in today's world, it is not accurate to suggest that a claimed victim has nothing to gain. Aside from potential legal recoveries (which have always been available), in today's world a claimed victim gets a ton of attention, the very coveted victim status, and an opportunity to promote an agenda (or in some cases, exact vengeance and/or revenge). The [url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-attack-hoax-allegation-bogus-police-reports-real-harm/2936672002/][/url]Jussie Smollett episode is only the most recent example. Understandably, many of us can't fathom that a famous relatively wealthy person would make a false claim. Yet is seems almost certain he did.
[url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-attack-hoax-allegation-bogus-police-reports-real-harm/2936672002/][/url]
There is reporting that false claims are more common than thought. In addition, many of the Title IX claims being litigated in courts on a nationwide basis have shown that the claims are sometimes made with improper motive (i.e., claims made after consensual relationships ended badly).

In this case (every case), the woman's claims should be fully investigated. But it sure seems that there's more to the story. I'm open to all possibilities, but I find it very difficult to believe that complaints were submitted to (and received by) JW or Cal admin and ignored.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/7/false-sex-assault-reports-not-rare-reported-studie/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/another-sexual-assault-acquittal-reaffirms-the-need-to-believeevidence/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/17/sexual-assault-allegations-wait-facts-former-prosecutor-column/1659190002/

---

I'm responding to you BG, but this isn't aimed at you. I AM picking on one phrase in your post as I think it is representative of a ton of posts here. That phrase is "I find it hard to believe..." I'm seeing this sentiment on both sides. Relatively neutral posts arguing we wait and see followed by a "I find it hard to believe" statement.
I'm sorry, if you live in this world, I find it hard to believe that any of you are so out of it that you still find anything hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that people do scumbag things like are accused here. But it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that people make false accusations. But it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that smart people who receive these reports don't handle them properly, but it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe (and frankly it hurts my heart) that any woman would feel such lack of empowerment to essentially not stand up to bullying to the point where they go to parties or others hotel rooms, but it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I don't find her story hard to believe. I don't find the possibility that she has made it up or exaggerated it hard to believe. I don't find the concept that Cal has done everything correctly hard to believe. I don't find the idea that Cal has failed miserably hard to believe. All of this has been seen over and over.

So here is what I'm going to do until I find out more. I'm going to treat this woman as if she is telling the truth. I'm going to treat the accused as if they are telling the truth.

And I'm going to submit to all of you that no one here is neutral. I think it is safe to say we all hope this is untrue. No one wants to think a young woman went through this. No one wants to think any of our representatives would do this. And let's face it, this would be severely damaging to our football program, and we are on a Cal football board because we care about the fate of our football program. (I would submit that if somehow I could demonstrate that her claims being true would somehow lead to a Rose Bowl while not hurting the reputation of the program, she would garner a lot more sympathy). On the flip side, a lot of people are also inclined to take a societal problem and statistics and apply them to an individual case when that is just not appropropriate.

And I don't claim to be neutral on this issue. The discussions around all of these cases always makes me uncomfortable. Sexual harassment and assault are not false reported any more than any other crime. Which is to say about 6-10% false reporting rate. That is certainly high enough to take the possibility of a false report seriously whether it is a pickpocketing or a sexual assault. What makes me uncomfortable is the speculation as to reasons. Hell, I don't know why anyone would false report anything. But they do. However, the woman scorned, gold digger, **** stories that can be made up spill over on the accuser, and speculation is just not helpful either in the individual case or in the societal case.

As I said, I am not neutral. I have daughters. The statistics are frightening. And as a society we have just flat out been horrible in prosecuting these types of cases. Sexual assault is about the easiest crime to get away with. The percentage of perpetrators that see jail time is shockingly low. In sheer numbers, the number of victims who do not see justice just swamps the number of innocent people who ever see consequences for a crime they don't commit. We really need to do something about this.

However, societal statistics don't mean a damned thing when it comes to an individual case. We've got to stop treating them like they do. And individual cases don't mean squat when it comes to judging a societal problem. We can't put the baggage of all of our history on every individual case. The question of innocence or guilt of an individual accused has nothing to do with how many people were unjustly let go or convicted in the past.

What we can do is stop jumping to conclusions on both sides. What we really must do is start treating all sides with fairness. Stop defending people you think you know. Stop judging situations you think you understand.

In this case, she has made claims that should produce witnesses. They don't always, but I'm hoping that there are enough good people in this world that someone will support her if they can corroborate. Even more importantly, she has made claims of communications that should be provable if they occurred.

What I ask is that Cal do a neutral and competent investigation and for everyone to treat EVERYBODY in the situation with respect until we know more. There will be plenty of time to cast stones at the accuser if she is lying or the accused if she is telling the truth.

---

What I found hard to believe (the allegation that Wilcox and Knowlton didn't report) has since been confirmed by Cal's statement - Wilcox and the AD immediately reported the complaint. Could they be lying? I suppose. But, again, I highly doubt that. Weighing credibility (as I'm doing) and pointing to obvious holes/discrepancies in the women's claims (not to mention how she chose to publish them) is not jumping to a conclusion. It is critical thinking.

---

BearGoggles said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

There have been several posts indicating that the women's story should be believed because false reports of crimes - particularly sexual harassment and rape - are rare. Most claims are true, but many are not.

I think in today's world, it is not accurate to suggest that a claimed victim has nothing to gain. Aside from potential legal recoveries (which have always been available), in today's world a claimed victim gets a ton of attention, the very coveted victim status, and an opportunity to promote an agenda (or in some cases, exact vengeance and/or revenge). The [url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-attack-hoax-allegation-bogus-police-reports-real-harm/2936672002/][/url]Jussie Smollett episode is only the most recent example. Understandably, many of us can't fathom that a famous relatively wealthy person would make a false claim. Yet is seems almost certain he did.
[url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-attack-hoax-allegation-bogus-police-reports-real-harm/2936672002/][/url]
There is reporting that false claims are more common than thought. In addition, many of the Title IX claims being litigated in courts on a nationwide basis have shown that the claims are sometimes made with improper motive (i.e., claims made after consensual relationships ended badly).

In this case (every case), the woman's claims should be fully investigated. But it sure seems that there's more to the story. I'm open to all possibilities, but I find it very difficult to believe that complaints were submitted to (and received by) JW or Cal admin and ignored.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/7/false-sex-assault-reports-not-rare-reported-studie/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/another-sexual-assault-acquittal-reaffirms-the-need-to-believeevidence/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/17/sexual-assault-allegations-wait-facts-former-prosecutor-column/1659190002/

---

I'm responding to you BG, but this isn't aimed at you. I AM picking on one phrase in your post as I think it is representative of a ton of posts here. That phrase is "I find it hard to believe..." I'm seeing this sentiment on both sides. Relatively neutral posts arguing we wait and see followed by a "I find it hard to believe" statement.
I'm sorry, if you live in this world, I find it hard to believe that any of you are so out of it that you still find anything hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that people do scumbag things like are accused here. But it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that people make false accusations. But it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that smart people who receive these reports don't handle them properly, but it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe (and frankly it hurts my heart) that any woman would feel such lack of empowerment to essentially not stand up to bullying to the point where they go to parties or others hotel rooms, but it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I don't find her story hard to believe. I don't find the possibility that she has made it up or exaggerated it hard to believe. I don't find the concept that Cal has done everything correctly hard to believe. I don't find the idea that Cal has failed miserably hard to believe. All of this has been seen over and over.

So here is what I'm going to do until I find out more. I'm going to treat this woman as if she is telling the truth. I'm going to treat the accused as if they are telling the truth.

And I'm going to submit to all of you that no one here is neutral. I think it is safe to say we all hope this is untrue. No one wants to think a young woman went through this. No one wants to think any of our representatives would do this. And let's face it, this would be severely damaging to our football program, and we are on a Cal football board because we care about the fate of our football program. (I would submit that if somehow I could demonstrate that her claims being true would somehow lead to a Rose Bowl while not hurting the reputation of the program, she would garner a lot more sympathy). On the flip side, a lot of people are also inclined to take a societal problem and statistics and apply them to an individual case when that is just not appropropriate.

And I don't claim to be neutral on this issue. The discussions around all of these cases always makes me uncomfortable. Sexual harassment and assault are not false reported any more than any other crime. Which is to say about 6-10% false reporting rate. That is certainly high enough to take the possibility of a false report seriously whether it is a pickpocketing or a sexual assault. What makes me uncomfortable is the speculation as to reasons. Hell, I don't know why anyone would false report anything. But they do. However, the woman scorned, gold digger, **** stories that can be made up spill over on the accuser, and speculation is just not helpful either in the individual case or in the societal case.

As I said, I am not neutral. I have daughters. The statistics are frightening. And as a society we have just flat out been horrible in prosecuting these types of cases. Sexual assault is about the easiest crime to get away with. The percentage of perpetrators that see jail time is shockingly low. In sheer numbers, the number of victims who do not see justice just swamps the number of innocent people who ever see consequences for a crime they don't commit. We really need to do something about this.

However, societal statistics don't mean a damned thing when it comes to an individual case. We've got to stop treating them like they do. And individual cases don't mean squat when it comes to judging a societal problem. We can't put the baggage of all of our history on every individual case. The question of innocence or guilt of an individual accused has nothing to do with how many people were unjustly let go or convicted in the past.

What we can do is stop jumping to conclusions on both sides. What we really must do is start treating all sides with fairness. Stop defending people you think you know. Stop judging situations you think you understand.

In this case, she has made claims that should produce witnesses. They don't always, but I'm hoping that there are enough good people in this world that someone will support her if they can corroborate. Even more importantly, she has made claims of communications that should be provable if they occurred.

What I ask is that Cal do a neutral and competent investigation and for everyone to treat EVERYBODY in the situation with respect until we know more. There will be plenty of time to cast stones at the accuser if she is lying or the accused if she is telling the truth.

---

What I found hard to believe (the allegation that Wilcox and Knowlton didn't report) has since been confirmed by Cal's statement - Wilcox and the AD immediately reported the complaint. Could they be lying? I suppose. But, again, I highly doubt that. Weighing credibility (as I'm doing) and pointing to obvious holes/discrepancies in the women's claims (not to mention how she chose to publish them) is not jumping to a conclusion. It is critical thinking.

You have posted a bunch of disputable statistics and then (correctly) said the statistics don't matter in an individual case. You don't indicate where your 6-10% claimed false reporting rate comes from. The numbers I've found are all over the place - I think in part because it is unclear how to classify cases that are reported and which are not prosecuted/ajudicated (i.e., it is hard to tell if it a criminal complaint is false or just not supported by enough evidence to pursue). It also depends on how the "harassment" is defined - the most commonly cited studies in that regard had an unreasonably broad definition of harassment which included behaviors that many would not consider harassment (such as pickup lines) and certainly were not "assault".

Finally, I think its wrong to conflate statistics regarding sexual assault, which is typically a criminal matter, with harassment claims which are typically civil (and in some cases, such as at Cal, also administrative). I think there is a much greater risk of false/unfair claims in the civil/administrative setting, particularly given the current #metoo environment where the scales are heavily tipped in favor of the "victim," who "must be believed" and receives instant victim status.

All of this was to address earlier posts where people said they believed the woman because false reports are rare and "what does she have to gain" (aka the Jussie Smollett defense) I'll stand by my original statement that the number of false claims is not as low as people like to think and that there are many reasons a person might present a false claim - if you doubt this look at the comments to the women's facebook post. Beyond that, I join you in hoping that Cal will do a fair and competent investigation. Unfortunately, due to privacy concerns and rules, we will likely never now the details and, if innocent people have been wrongly accused, their reputations will never be fully restored because they won't be able to speak about it.

---

75bear said:

---

Man, people are on edge.

---

BearGoggles said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

There have been several posts indicating that the women's story should be believed because false reports of crimes - particularly sexual harassment and rape - are rare. Most claims are true, but many are not.

I think in today's world, it is not accurate to suggest that a claimed victim has nothing to gain. Aside from potential legal recoveries (which have always been available), in today's world a claimed victim gets a ton of attention, the very coveted victim status, and an opportunity to promote an agenda (or in some cases, exact vengeance and/or revenge). The [url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-attack-hoax-allegation-bogus-police-reports-real-harm/2936672002/][/url]Jussie Smollett episode is only the most recent example. Understandably, many of us can't fathom that a famous relatively wealthy person would make a false claim. Yet is seems almost certain he did.
[url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/22/jussie-smollett-attack-hoax-allegation-bogus-police-reports-real-harm/2936672002/][/url]
There is reporting that false claims are more common than thought. In addition, many of the Title IX claims being litigated in courts on a nationwide basis have shown that the claims are sometimes made with improper motive (i.e., claims made after consensual relationships ended badly).

In this case (every case), the woman's claims should be fully investigated. But it sure seems that there's more to the story. I'm open to all possibilities, but I find it very difficult to believe that complaints were submitted to (and received by) JW or Cal admin and ignored.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/7/false-sex-assault-reports-not-rare-reported-studie/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/another-sexual-assault-acquittal-reaffirms-the-need-to-believeevidence/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/17/sexual-assault-allegations-wait-facts-former-prosecutor-column/1659190002/

---

I'm responding to you BG, but this isn't aimed at you. I AM picking on one phrase in your post as I think it is representative of a ton of posts here. That phrase is "I find it hard to believe..." I'm seeing this sentiment on both sides. Relatively neutral posts arguing we wait and see followed by a "I find it hard to believe" statement.
I'm sorry, if you live in this world, I find it hard to believe that any of you are so out of it that you still find anything hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that people do scumbag things like are accused here. But it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that people make false accusations. But it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe that smart people who receive these reports don't handle them properly, but it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I find it hard to believe (and frankly it hurts my heart) that any woman would feel such lack of empowerment to essentially not stand up to bullying to the point where they go to parties or others hotel rooms, but it happens all the time, so I don't find it hard to believe.

I don't find her story hard to believe. I don't find the possibility that she has made it up or exaggerated it hard to believe. I don't find the concept that Cal has done everything correctly hard to believe. I don't find the idea that Cal has failed miserably hard to believe. All of this has been seen over and over.

So here is what I'm going to do until I find out more. I'm going to treat this woman as if she is telling the truth. I'm going to treat the accused as if they are telling the truth.

And I'm going to submit to all of you that no one here is neutral. I think it is safe to say we all hope this is untrue. No one wants to think a young woman went through this. No one wants to think any of our representatives would do this. And let's face it, this would be severely damaging to our football program, and we are on a Cal football board because we care about the fate of our football program. (I would submit that if somehow I could demonstrate that her claims being true would somehow lead to a Rose Bowl while not hurting the reputation of the program, she would garner a lot more sympathy). On the flip side, a lot of people are also inclined to take a societal problem and statistics and apply them to an individual case when that is just not appropropriate.

And I don't claim to be neutral on this issue. The discussions around all of these cases always makes me uncomfortable. Sexual harassment and assault are not false reported any more than any other crime. Which is to say about 6-10% false reporting rate. That is certainly high enough to take the possibility of a false report seriously whether it is a pickpocketing or a sexual assault. What makes me uncomfortable is the speculation as to reasons. Hell, I don't know why anyone would false report anything. But they do. However, the woman scorned, gold digger, **** stories that can be made up spill over on the accuser, and speculation is just not helpful either in the individual case or in the societal case.

As I said, I am not neutral. I have daughters. The statistics are frightening. And as a society we have just flat out been horrible in prosecuting these types of cases. Sexual assault is about the easiest crime to get away with. The percentage of perpetrators that see jail time is shockingly low. In sheer numbers, the number of victims who do not see justice just swamps the number of innocent people who ever see consequences for a crime they don't commit. We really need to do something about this.

However, societal statistics don't mean a damned thing when it comes to an individual case. We've got to stop treating them like they do. And individual cases don't mean squat when it comes to judging a societal problem. We can't put the baggage of all of our history on every individual case. The question of innocence or guilt of an individual accused has nothing to do with how many people were unjustly let go or convicted in the past.

What we can do is stop jumping to conclusions on both sides. What we really must do is start treating all sides with fairness. Stop defending people you think you know. Stop judging situations you think you understand.

In this case, she has made claims that should produce witnesses. They don't always, but I'm hoping that there are enough good people in this world that someone will support her if they can corroborate. Even more importantly, she has made claims of communications that should be provable if they occurred.

What I ask is that Cal do a neutral and competent investigation and for everyone to treat EVERYBODY in the situation with respect until we know more. There will be plenty of time to cast stones at the accuser if she is lying or the accused if she is telling the truth.

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What I found hard to believe (the allegation that Wilcox and Knowlton didn't report) has since been confirmed by Cal's statement - Wilcox and the AD immediately reported the complaint. Could they be lying? I suppose. But, again, I highly doubt that. Weighing credibility (as I'm doing) and pointing to obvious holes/discrepancies in the women's claims (not to mention how she chose to publish them) is not jumping to a conclusion. It is critical thinking.

You have posted a bunch of disputable statistics and then (correctly) said the statistics don't matter in an individual case. You don't indicate where your 6-10% claimed false reporting rate comes from. The numbers I've found are all over the place - I think in part because it is unclear how to classify cases that are reported and which are not prosecuted/ajudicated (i.e., it is hard to tell if it a criminal complaint is false or just not supported by enough evidence to pursue). It also depends on how the "harassment" is defined - the most commonly cited studies in that regard had an unreasonably broad definition of harassment which included behaviors that many would not consider harassment (such as pickup lines) and certainly were not "assault".

Finally, I think its wrong to conflate statistics regarding sexual assault, which is typically a criminal matter, with harassment claims which are typically civil (and in some cases, such as at Cal, also administrative). I think there is a much greater risk of false/unfair claims in the civil/administrative setting, particularly given the current #metoo environment where the scales are heavily tipped in favor of the "victim," who "must be believed" and receives instant victim status.

All of this was to address earlier posts where people said they believed the woman because false reports are rare and "what does she have to gain" (aka the Jussie Smollett defense) I'll stand by my original statement that the number of false claims is not as low as people like to think and that there are many reasons a person might present a false claim - if you doubt this look at the comments to the women's facebook post. Beyond that, I join you in hoping that Cal will do a fair and competent investigation. Unfortunately, due to privacy concerns and rules, we will likely never now the details and, if innocent people have been wrongly accused, their reputations will never be fully restored because they won't be able to speak about it.

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okaydo said:

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I'm lost. I take a few hours off. And there's a post on the main board saying it's real.

Is it real or not? Can somebody clarify? Thanks.

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Bear19 said:

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okaydo said:

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I'm lost. I take a few hours off. And there's a post on the main board saying it's real.

Is it real or not? Can somebody clarify? Thanks.

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Until we have a definitive answer/explanation of all the facts, we're left with speculation, which is usually fraught with bad information & prejudiced viewpoints in situations like this one.

Knowlton's email says that he & Wilcox followed proper procedure. That doesn't settle the issues & charges made by the young lady, but it does begin to give us some indication that at least Wilcox & Knowlton followed policy & did not try to dismiss the charges of the young lady. Was that sufficient? How can we know at this point?

Once the Office for the Prevention of Harassment and Discrimination takes over "the case" I would assume no further action is allowed by Knowlton or Wilcox, until instructed otherwise by the Chancellor.

So, we're left to wait until the facts as the Office the Prevention of Harassment and Discrimination determine them to be, are made public - at least the facts that the University is willing to reveal. Nothing else we can do so far as I can see.

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okaydo said:

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I'm lost. I take a few hours off. And there's a post on the main board saying it's real.

Is it real or not? Can somebody clarify? Thanks.

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SurvivorOf1and10fkaLEA said:

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Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

This is a distinction that a simple mind like yours probably won't get. But, my opinion as to the veracity of the claimant's allegations in this particular case is not the same as my opinion as to the likely result of this particular case based on the statistical probability of likely result in all like cases. In simpler words, so you might be able to understand: I don't know whether or not she is telling the truth, but I know what usually happens in cases like hers.

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