calumnus said:

---

Goobear said:

---

GivemTheAxe said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Thought it would be a good time to revisit vaccination progress. Some people here were complaining when we were a point or two behind other states but look at things now. As was quite obvious early on, California came roaring back and is making as much progress as any other big state on vaccinations. More than half the state has already had their first jab and we are continuing to see healthy demand. By contrast, Texas is one of the worst performing states (under 40% have received a dose) and Florida is below average.

Meanwhile, on transmission California is doing better than every other state per capita. Texas has 2x as many cases per capita over the last few weeks and Florida has 5x.

As has been widely reported, counties are starting to move to the yellow tier and Newsom says the state will fully reopen June 15. So long as bad variants don't take hold here, I think we are likely to do so on a safer basis than many of the other states that still have heavier transmission of COVID.

This has to hurt the anti-California anti-progressive brigade, but facts are stubborn things.

---

Comparing CA to other states is clearly impossible because of the number of variables. To begin with is the geographical size of the state: the distance from the Oregon border to the Mexican border is the almost the same as the distance from Boston to Charlotte
NC. And it has probably the greatest geographical diversity in the nation.
Two highly respected medical experts John Swartzberg of Cal and Robert Kim-Farley of UCLA have both commented that it is difficult to compare CA's response to the pandemic with that of other states because of such factors as population density, the large numbers of agricultural and essential workers and the number of homeless.
It is possible they say that if CA had taken a less restrictive approach to the pandemic in CA the results might have left CA in an impossible position. Instead despite a serious second wave CA has currently among the best per capita position in the nation for large states.
They both reported that it would take years to sort through the data to determine what efforts worked and what did not.
My own view is based upon my military training. When you find yourself facing a dilemma or multiple dilemmas you have to DO SOMETHING quickly. Make your best informed decision and the act upon it. The worst thing you can do is to ignore the problem hope it doesn't exist or will just go away. TAKE CHARGE and ACT.
Nether of the two medical experts criticized Newsom since he acted based upon the best medical knowledge available at the time.

IMO It may later be determined that the best medical information was not completely accurate and that there were other/better things that could have been done. But a good leader can't sit on his hands and wait for that better information to arrive while your troops are dying all around you.

As it was pointed out in a recent USA Today article lots of businesses were closed and lost due to the shutdown in CA. But it is easier for the owners to restart a new business than for the dead to come back to life.

---

Easy to say if you are not an owner who lost his business? I am not buying that argument at all.

---

My brother in law owned several (5) Five Guys in Maryland and a historic inn/deli in downtown Annapolis. After being sick for two weeks he was found dead in his apartment. We had the funeral via Zoom. My sister died of brain cancer 14 years ago. The businesses were to be the legacy my brother-in-law passed down to my nephew.

My nephew is 22, just graduated from college. The businesses have been had hit by COVID (the deli more than the 5 Guys). My brother and I are the trustees. My nephew is now being sued by some of the investors (family "friends" who told him they would "be there for him" at the memorial service) trying to get control of the businesses. Dont you think my nephew would trade the businesses to get his dad back?

In discussions with our nephew my brother and I have made it clear that we would fight for the businesses, but in the end of the day, HE is his father's legacy, not some hamburger restaurants. My nephew knows that just like his father built up his businesses from nothing, he can too. Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you have fed him for life. My brother-in-law taught his son to fish.

You can always start a new business. You can't bring back the dead. I wish people understood this without more people having to die.

---

I found your post very moving. I am truly sorry for your loss. I really like your statement that your nephew is your brother's true legacy not the business your brother had built up and had intended to leave behind. It puts into proper perspective the things that really matter.

calumnus said:

---

Big C said:

---

calumnus said:

---

GivemTheAxe said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Thought it would be a good time to revisit vaccination progress. Some people here were complaining when we were a point or two behind other states but look at things now. As was quite obvious early on, California came roaring back and is making as much progress as any other big state on vaccinations. More than half the state has already had their first jab and we are continuing to see healthy demand. By contrast, Texas is one of the worst performing states (under 40% have received a dose) and Florida is below average.

Meanwhile, on transmission California is doing better than every other state per capita. Texas has 2x as many cases per capita over the last few weeks and Florida has 5x.

As has been widely reported, counties are starting to move to the yellow tier and Newsom says the state will fully reopen June 15. So long as bad variants don't take hold here, I think we are likely to do so on a safer basis than many of the other states that still have heavier transmission of COVID.

This has to hurt the anti-California anti-progressive brigade, but facts are stubborn things.

---

Comparing CA to other states is clearly impossible because of the number of variables. To begin with is the geographical size of the state: the distance from the Oregon border to the Mexican border is the almost the same as the distance from Boston to Charlotte
NC. And it has probably the greatest geographical diversity in the nation.
Two highly respected medical experts John Swartzberg of Cal and Robert Kim-Farley of UCLA have both commented that it is difficult to compare CA's response to the pandemic with that of other states because of such factors as population density, the large numbers of agricultural and essential workers and the number of homeless.
It is possible they say that if CA had taken a less restrictive approach to the pandemic in CA the results might have left CA in an impossible position. Instead despite a serious second wave CA has currently among the best per capita position in the nation for large states.
They both reported that it would take years to sort through the data to determine what efforts worked and what did not.
My own view is based upon my military training. When you find yourself facing a dilemma or multiple dilemmas you have to DO SOMETHING quickly. Make your best informed decision and the act upon it. The worst thing you can do is to ignore the problem hope it doesn't exist or will just go away. TAKE CHARGE and ACT.
Nether of the two medical experts criticized Newsom since he acted based upon the best medical knowledge available at the time.

IMO It may later be determined that the best medical information was not completely accurate and that there were other/better things that could have been done. But a good leader can't sit on his hands and wait for that better information to arrive while your troops are dying all around you.

As it was pointed out in a recent USA Today article lots of businesses were closed and lost due to the shutdown in CA. But it is easier for the owners to restart a new business than for the dead to come back to life.

---

Effective lockdowns: New Zealand, Taiwan and to a large extent Canada. Korea dealt with it with widespread testing. The key, like when dealing with a fire outbreak, was tamping it out by locking down early. Taiwan had fans at baseball games a year ago, two months after eliminating it completely with an early country-wide lockdown. And you cannot say Taiwan and Korea had fewer travelers from China than the US.

Europe had differing policies in countries adjacent to each other with open travel. Even if one country locked down and eliminated it, they could be reinfected by people coming in from neighboring countries.

The United States could have been like Canada but were not united. A coordinated Federal policy was needed, instead Trump first called it a hoax ignoring it then pushed it onto individual states to determine policy. States competed with each other for PPE and ventilators leading to high prices, hoarding and shortages. He even encouraged armed resistance to lockdown measures in places like Michigan with a storming of the state capital by his supporters and a plot to kidnap and execute the governor. He encouraged states with low level of infection to stay open, when that was the time to stamp it out and what was needed was everyone to shelter in place simultaneously for two weeks. So we were like Europe, a bunch of independent states with open travel instead of the United States. One state would get it under control but then could get reinfected by travelers from states with no measures. We could have dealt with it like Korea with widespread testing and contact tracing, allowing things to stay open and only the infected being quarantined, but Trump held back on widespread testing because he thought that would just reveal the true infection rate and make him look bad in an election year. He even politicized mask wearing. The result was an out of control infection and over a year of on again off again lock down measures and now likely 1 million Americans dead when it is all accounted for.

---

Most of us are well aware that there were some major US lapses (euphemism) at the federal level, but let's try and not have this thread relegated.

Regarding some of the other nations:

Being an island nation is a definite geographical advantage (just look at Hawaii), as is a strong federal government and a culture of compliance. Combine all of those and you have a Japan or a Taiwan or a Korea*.


* Korea not an island, but their only land border is rather impassible, so...

---

Canada has had only 24,000 COVID deaths despite having the world's longest border with the world's most infected country.

---

Canadian friends commented the same while also recognizing the huge population delta of course, which makes it about 2:1. Canada has nothing like the population density of New York and surrounding environs, where an inordinate amount of deaths occurred. The management decisions made by some nursing homes alone, one percent of the US population, accounted for at least 1/3 of US deaths (NYT). An interesting article I read a week or so back from the Washington Monthly has it at 35+% and interestingly has a Canadian mention.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/04/16/how-mistreating-nursing-home-staff-helped-spread-covid-19/

There are many factors at play here that contribute to a nation's pandemic statistics...

Cal89 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Big C said:

---

Most of us are well aware that there were some major US lapses (euphemism) at the federal level, but let's try and not have this thread relegated.

Regarding some of the other nations:

Being an island nation is a definite geographical advantage (just look at Hawaii), as is a strong federal government and a culture of compliance. Combine all of those and you have a Japan or a Taiwan or a Korea*.


* Korea not an island, but their only land border is rather impassible, so...

---

Canada has had only 24,000 COVID deaths despite having the world's longest border with the world's most infected country.

---

Canadian friends commented the same while also recognizing the huge population delta of course, which makes it about 2:1. Canada has nothing like the population density of New York and surrounding environs, where an inordinate amount of deaths occurred. The management decisions made by some nursing homes alone, one percent of the US population, accounted for at least 1/3 of US deaths (NYT). An interesting article I read a week or so back from the Washington Monthly has it at 35+% and interestingly has a Canadian mention.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/04/16/how-mistreating-nursing-home-staff-helped-spread-covid-19/

There are many factors at play here that contribute to a nation's pandemic statistics...

---

Considering the population density within 1000 miles of Canada's massive arctic border (near zero), referring to its size, in this case, has to be one of the most ridiculous and irrelevant cherry-picked stats ever seen at bearinsider. Meanwhile in Nova Scotia, which is now on lock-down, my 80-yo uncle reports after finally being able to get his first vaccine shot four weeks ago he is still patiently awaiting his second.

Civil Bear said:

---

Cal89 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Big C said:

---

Most of us are well aware that there were some major US lapses (euphemism) at the federal level, but let's try and not have this thread relegated.

Regarding some of the other nations:

Being an island nation is a definite geographical advantage (just look at Hawaii), as is a strong federal government and a culture of compliance. Combine all of those and you have a Japan or a Taiwan or a Korea*.


* Korea not an island, but their only land border is rather impassible, so...

---

Canada has had only 24,000 COVID deaths despite having the world's longest border with the world's most infected country.

---

Canadian friends commented the same while also recognizing the huge population delta of course, which makes it about 2:1. Canada has nothing like the population density of New York and surrounding environs, where an inordinate amount of deaths occurred. The management decisions made by some nursing homes alone, one percent of the US population, accounted for at least 1/3 of US deaths (NYT). An interesting article I read a week or so back from the Washington Monthly has it at 35+% and interestingly has a Canadian mention.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/04/16/how-mistreating-nursing-home-staff-helped-spread-covid-19/

There are many factors at play here that contribute to a nation's pandemic statistics...

---

Considering the population density within 1000 miles of Canada's massive arctic border (near zero), referring to its size, in this case, has to be one of the most ridiculous and irrelevant cherry-picked stats ever seen at bearinsider. Meanwhile in Nova Scotia, which is now on lock-down, my 80-yo uncle reports after finally being able to get his first vaccine shot four weeks ago he is still patiently awaiting his second.

---

Sorry for the delayed response! I've been catching-up on travel, getting settled into a retirement routine, and with the kids back in school, finally, getting ramped-up for some Cal football...

So, catching-up on the forum here, and while I was quoted above, it seems your response was directed at another member. In addition to the US having more highly dense population centers compared to Canada, there are other contributing factors, like the aforementioned nursing home tragedies. Obesity also, as we have learned, worsens outcomes with respect to this virus. While I have not checked recently, in the past few years Americans have been quite a bit fatter than our northern friends. Due to racial inequities and underlying health conditions, people of color in the US have been hit inordinately hard. The number of such folks in Canada, percentage of population too, far less than the US...

Again, no need to respond as it seems you were addressing the other member.

Civil Bear said:

---

Cal89 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Big C said:

---

Most of us are well aware that there were some major US lapses (euphemism) at the federal level, but let's try and not have this thread relegated.

Regarding some of the other nations:

Being an island nation is a definite geographical advantage (just look at Hawaii), as is a strong federal government and a culture of compliance. Combine all of those and you have a Japan or a Taiwan or a Korea*.


* Korea not an island, but their only land border is rather impassible, so...

---

Canada has had only 24,000 COVID deaths despite having the world's longest border with the world's most infected country.

---

Canadian friends commented the same while also recognizing the huge population delta of course, which makes it about 2:1. Canada has nothing like the population density of New York and surrounding environs, where an inordinate amount of deaths occurred. The management decisions made by some nursing homes alone, one percent of the US population, accounted for at least 1/3 of US deaths (NYT). An interesting article I read a week or so back from the Washington Monthly has it at 35+% and interestingly has a Canadian mention.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/04/16/how-mistreating-nursing-home-staff-helped-spread-covid-19/

There are many factors at play here that contribute to a nation's pandemic statistics...

---

Considering the population density within 1000 miles of Canada's massive arctic border (near zero), referring to its size, in this case, has to be one of the most ridiculous and irrelevant cherry-picked stats ever seen at bearinsider. Meanwhile in Nova Scotia, which is now on lock-down, my 80-yo uncle reports after finally being able to get his first vaccine shot four weeks ago he is still patiently awaiting his second.

---

The border with the United States. The US was the most infected country in the world and Canada had the worlds longest open border with the US. Canada did a great job considering they are not an island nation.

You seriously thought I was talking about walruses or Santa Claus?