concordtom said:

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Suggs fouled Riley on the arm video clip

https://streamable.com/iqrxjm

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Yeah, totally. Plus, I thought the next replay (from behind the backboard) was even more clear.

drizzlybear said:

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concordtom said:

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Suggs fouled Riley on the arm video clip

https://streamable.com/iqrxjm

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Yeah, totally. Plus, I thought the next replay (from behind the backboard) was even more clear.

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This angle isn't super clear (looks like he probably hit the arm with his elbow, but it's a bit obscured). I assume the other one shows more.

If the contact on the ball and elbow is roughly simultaneous that's usually not a foul, no? Sort of like incidental contact on the hand after blocking a regular shot.

sycasey said:

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drizzlybear said:

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concordtom said:

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Suggs fouled Riley on the arm video clip

https://streamable.com/iqrxjm

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Yeah, totally. Plus, I thought the next replay (from behind the backboard) was even more clear.

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This angle isn't super clear (looks like he probably hit the arm with his elbow, but it's a bit obscured). I assume the other one shows more.

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No way. Are you kidding me? His arm completely collapsed and moves to the left. A slap on the hand would not cause the arm all the way down to the elbow to move like that. Take a look again and just watch lower on the arm at how it suddenly moves all at once.

But, truth is, that was with 2 min left and if we are going to go back and pick things apart, we'd find 10x as many plays throughout the entire game. It is what it is.

Here's another angle of the block:



I dunno, looks pretty simultaneous to me.

sycasey said:

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Here's another angle of the block:



I dunno, looks pretty simultaneous to me.

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It doesn't matter if there's simultaneous contact with the ball. If you hit the shooter's arm, as Suggs clearly and impact fully did, it's a foul. But I also don't want to give the impression that UCLA got hosed or anything like that. It was a spectacular game played by both teams, there are a ton of things one could point to that would change the outcome, and the outcome is what it should have been. Incredible plays by both teams going down to the wire. For UCLA it's extra sting because they lost a game to furd in similar last-second fashion right after they thought they'd won it on their own late shot.

Yes it was a foul as I said when it happened and when I instantly posted on this thread. His elbow is clearly hit and effects his shot/loses control. I was amazed the color analysts did not see this or mention it.

drizzlybear said:

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sycasey said:

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Here's another angle of the block:



I dunno, looks pretty simultaneous to me.

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It doesn't matter if there's simultaneous contact with the ball. If you hit the shooter's arm, as Suggs clearly and impact fully did, it's a foul. But I also don't want to give the impression that UCLA got hosed or anything like that. It was a spectacular game played by both teams, there are a ton of things one could point to that would change the outcome, and the outcome is what it should have been. Incredible plays by both teams going down to the wire. For UCLA it's extra sting because they lost a game to furd in similar last-second fashion right after they thought they'd won it on their own late shot.

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I'm sure by the letter of the law you're right. I'm just saying that I tend to see that not called when it unfolds like that. Probably because the ref is usually looking at the ball and not further down the body when a dunk gets blocked . . . unless there's a big and obvious body bump.

BulaBear3cubs said:

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Yes it was a foul as I said when it happened and when I instantly posted on this thread. His elbow is clearly hit and effects his shot/loses control. I was amazed the color analysts did not see this or mention it.

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That's how I saw it. I think the color analysts, like most everyone else, was just so taken by the effort, the apparent block, and the subsequent play the other way that no one felt like going back an undoing what was a spectacularly dramatic sequence. But, yeah, I saw it the way you saw it.

sycasey said:

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drizzlybear said:

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sycasey said:

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Here's another angle of the block:



I dunno, looks pretty simultaneous to me.

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It doesn't matter if there's simultaneous contact with the ball. If you hit the shooter's arm, as Suggs clearly and impact fully did, it's a foul. But I also don't want to give the impression that UCLA got hosed or anything like that. It was a spectacular game played by both teams, there are a ton of things one could point to that would change the outcome, and the outcome is what it should have been. Incredible plays by both teams going down to the wire. For UCLA it's extra sting because they lost a game to furd in similar last-second fashion right after they thought they'd won it on their own late shot.

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I'm sure by the letter of the law you're right. I'm just saying that I tend to see that not called when it unfolds like that. Probably because the ref is usually looking at the ball and not further down the body when a dunk gets blocked . . . unless there's a big and obvious body bump.

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I get it. I can see how it wasn't called. Again, I'm not up in arms about it.

drizzlybear said:

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sycasey said:

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drizzlybear said:

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sycasey said:

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Here's another angle of the block:



I dunno, looks pretty simultaneous to me.

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It doesn't matter if there's simultaneous contact with the ball. If you hit the shooter's arm, as Suggs clearly and impact fully did, it's a foul. But I also don't want to give the impression that UCLA got hosed or anything like that. It was a spectacular game played by both teams, there are a ton of things one could point to that would change the outcome, and the outcome is what it should have been. Incredible plays by both teams going down to the wire. For UCLA it's extra sting because they lost a game to furd in similar last-second fashion right after they thought they'd won it on their own late shot.

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I'm sure by the letter of the law you're right. I'm just saying that I tend to see that not called when it unfolds like that. Probably because the ref is usually looking at the ball and not further down the body when a dunk gets blocked . . . unless there's a big and obvious body bump.

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I get it. I can see how it wasn't called. Again, I'm not up in arms about it.

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Agreed, but if it were Cal, I might feel more strongly about it.

Photo: Tim Nwachukwu/Getty Images


Photo: Jamie Schwaberow/NCAA Photos via Getty Images

With 3.3 seconds a player can not run the court for a layup, and not enough time to shoot, miss, rebound and put back

Not sure why UCLA has a guy under the basket

But you should stop the ball handler if he is the lead dog with 2 players so you make him run sideways

Maybe UCLA thought he couldn't hit a very long three which of course is a very tough shot

But shooters practice those everyday now, so it's no longer a Hail Mary

UCLA defenses that wrong

bearister said:

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Photo: Tim Nwachukwu/Getty Images


Photo: Jamie Schwaberow/NCAA Photos via Getty Images

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Cronin said he was trying to tell his players to trap the ball, but if you watch the replays, it's pretty chaotic from the time Juzang scores to the inbound and then the shot. It's a different story if someone had called timeout so the defense could have time to set up. In this case, everyone is trying to run back on D as fast as possible.

Yelling from sideline is useless

You need to tell them what to do assuming your player makes the shot, and what to do if he misses (foul immediately)

philbert said:

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Cronin said he was trying to tell his players to trap the ball, but if you watch the replays, it's pretty chaotic from the time Juzang scores to the inbound and then the shot. It's a different story if someone had called timeout so the defense could have time to set up. In this case, everyone is trying to run back on D as fast as possible.

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HoopDreams said:

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Yelling from sideline is useless

You need to tell them what to do assuming your player makes the shot, and what to do if he misses (foul immediately)

philbert said:

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Cronin said he was trying to tell his players to trap the ball, but if you watch the replays, it's pretty chaotic from the time Juzang scores to the inbound and then the shot. It's a different story if someone had called timeout so the defense could have time to set up. In this case, everyone is trying to run back on D as fast as possible.

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When the shot was released, the deepest defender (Riley) was at the 3 pt line. Granted, he probably should have been turned towards the ball, but your first instinct after a basket is to run back. I can't tell from the replay if he's watching Suggs. If he was, I can't really fault him. He wasn't going to be able to do anything except run and try to get a rebound.

In the end, I'm not going to fault the defensive alignment on such a chaotic play.

I do have issues with how they played defense against Alabama at the end of regulation.

It would be interesting to try to estimate the odds of a clutch player like Suggs (and that practices such shots) sinking a 40 footer at the buzzer to win a Final Four Game (the details I added result in increased favorable odds for a clutch player).

philbert said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Yelling from sideline is useless

You need to tell them what to do assuming your player makes the shot, and what to do if he misses (foul immediately)

philbert said:

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Cronin said he was trying to tell his players to trap the ball, but if you watch the replays, it's pretty chaotic from the time Juzang scores to the inbound and then the shot. It's a different story if someone had called timeout so the defense could have time to set up. In this case, everyone is trying to run back on D as fast as possible.

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When the shot was released, the deepest defender (Riley) was at the 3 pt line. Granted, he probably should have been turned towards the ball, but your first instinct after a basket is to run back. I can't tell from the replay if he's watching Suggs. If he was, I can't really fault him. He wasn't going to be able to do anything except run and try to get a rebound.

In the end, I'm not going to fault the defensive alignment on such a chaotic play.

I do have issues with how they played defense against Alabama at the end of regulation.

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fair enough

my comment was 20-20 vision in any respect

bearister said:

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Photo: Tim Nwachukwu/Getty Images


Photo: Jamie Schwaberow/NCAA Photos via Getty Images

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That is Curry looking form on the long jumper. NBA material.

Ya think? How about pick # 1? If the worst team needs a PG, it's him.

NCAA Tournament ref Bert Smith's collapse during game saved his life


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2021/04/09/ncaa-tournament-referee-bert-smith-collapse-game-saved-life/7148461002/