SFCityBear said:
bearmanpg said:
01Bear said:
bearmanpg said:
SFCityBear said:
diva1,
Mark Fox recruited pretty well when he was at Nevada, at least well enough to help Nevada win 3 conference championships in 5 seasons, and achieve an AP poll ranking as high as #15. His Nevada teams finished 2nd in the conference in his last two seasons. (Fox recruits' names in bold type)
First of all, Fox was Trent Johnson's top assistant (Associate Head Coach) for 4 years at Nevada. The head coach is ultimately credited for signing any recruit, but usually the assistant coaches are the ones who actually do most of the work to convince the recruit to come. It is a known fact that Trent Johnson himself has given Fox the credit for the discovery, recruiting, and signing of Nick Fazekas, who would turn out to be Fox's best recruit at Nevada, and probably Johnson's best recruit at Nevada. Fazekas would play the full 4 years, and become a 2nd team Consensus All-American. Fazekas led all four of his teams to WAC championships, and to the NCAA tournament, with a sweet 16 run in his freshman year. I would guess that Fox likely recruited other players for Johnson. Just by landing Fazekas, it should lead us to question a bit the "Fox can't recruit" feelings Cal fans have. Maybe Fox has some recruiting chops after all. Let's look at the rest of Fox's record at Nevada:
As Nevada head coach, Fox recruited future NBA players Ramon Sessions (11 years in the NBA), Jake McGee (14 years so far), Luke Babbitt (8 years) and Armon Johnson (1 season). Babbitt was a MacDonalds All-American, rated #19 in the RSCI top 100 consensus recruit rankings, the only highly ranked recruit signed in the 10 year Johnson/Fox era at Nevada. That is 4 players who played 34 NBA seasons. Compare that with Mike Montgomery in 6 years at Cal, who recruited Crabbe (7 years in the NBA), Jorge (3 years), Wallace (3 years), and Bird (1 year). All of them may have a few years left to play, but their combined total is not likely to reach a total of 34 years.
Here are Fox's Nevada recruiting classes with hometowns or states:
2004
Ramon Sessions, 6-3 G, South Carolina, 9 Pts, 5Assists, 4 Rebs, played 3 years and left for the NBA, where he played for 11 seasons, averaging 10 points, 4 assists, and 3 rebounds.
Mo Charlo, 6-7 F, Eureka, CA, JC transfer, played 2 years, avg 10 Pts, 5 Rebs, 2 Assists, a recruit officially signed under Trent Johnson
Chad Bell, 7-1 C, Inglewood, CA, transfer from New Mexico, 2 years, 3 Pts, 2 Rebs, officially signed under Trent Johnson. Played a season in NBA G league.
David Ellis, 7-1 C, Sacramento, CA, 4 years, 3 Pts, 2 Rebs, a recruit officially signed under Trent Johnson
2005
DeMarshay Johnson, 6-9 F, Oakland, CA, 6 Pts, 4 Rebs, played 2 years and then left school
Denis Ikovlev, 6-7 F, Iowa, played two years at Nevada averaging 7 Pts, 3 Rebs
2006
JaVale McGee, 7-0 C, Michigan, 14Pts, 7 Rebs, 3 Blks (2nd season), played 2 years and left for the NBA, where he has played 14 seasons so far.
Tyrone Hanson, 6-7 G, Brooklyn NY, played 1 year. Fox asked players not to go out on Halloween. Hanson went to a Halloween party where three people were shot and killed. He was beaten up and threatened by a man holding a gun to his head. His girlfriend saved his life by intervening. The publicity was very bad for the school, and Fox was forced to dismiss him from the team. Fox then got on the phone and found a school, a JC in Arkansas, I think, that would take him, and so he got the kid a second chance. Hanson eventually ended up at Jackson State, where he averaged 14 Pts and 4 Rebs over 3 years. That is the kind of a coach Fox is. He has the players' backs, and maybe that is why so many players like him.
2007
Armon Johnson, 6-3 G, Reno, Nevada, 14 Pts, 4 Rebs, played 2 years and left for NBA, where he played a little more than one season.
Brandon Fields, 6-4 G, Arlington, Texas, 13 Pts, 2 Assists, 3 Rebs, played 4 years. Played 4 seasons in NBA G League.
Malik Cook, 6-6 F, North Carolina, 8 Pts, 5 Rebs, played 2 years and transferred to South Carolina. Played professionally overseas for 7 seasons.
2008
Luke Babbitt, 6-9 F, Reno, Nevada, RCSI #19 top 100 ranking, and a MacDonalds All-American, he originally verbally committed to Ohio State, but then backed out in favor of Mark Fox and Nevada. He averaged 19 Pts, 8 Rebs at Nevada, played 2 years and left for the NBA, where he played for 8 seasons.
Dario Hunt, 6-8 F, Colorado, 11 PTs, 10 Rebs, 2 Blks (jr and sr seasons), played 4 years. 2X All-WAC defensive team, 2X All-WAC, only player in Nevada history with 1000 pts, 1000 rebounds, and 250 blocks. Set school freshman record of 67 blocks.
Joey Shaw, 6-6 F, Arizona, transfer from Indiana, 10 Pts, 5 Rebs, played 2 years. Played overseas for 6 years.
I never saw Fox's Nevada teams, so I don't know if Fox recruited good unranked or low ranked players like Monty did at Cal. (Solomon, Cobbs, Jorge, Markhuri, Mathews, etc.) Fox has recruited poorly at Cal, but that does not detract from the decent job of recruiting he did while at Nevada. This Cal fan at least, would have been happy if he had continued landing the same level of recruiting talent that he landed at Nevada. I think the problem at Cal is not Fox. It is Cal. Cal right now is a graveyard for coaches, after all that has happened since Montgomery retired. It is poison for recruits, beginning with Cuonzo's abrupt departure, the loss of recruits, the hiring of an inept coach who recruited over players, and then the Covid and its strict but often unpredictable rules and effects on recruiting, practicing and playing games. How can a coach who recruits a consensus All-American, plus 4 NBA players, and several more players who played in NBA development leagues, or overseas, and some who were almost at that level, how can he not be able to recruit at Cal? It has to be Cal itself. What is needed is the Admissions office to cut Fox some slack, and let in a couple of recruits now and then who don't qualify academically. Coach K had such a deal at Duke. That is how it has to be done, these days, unfortunately. Montgomery, Cuonzo, and Fox will probably all tell us the same thing.
And this is all coming from one of the last men standing up for Wyking Jones a few years ago....notice a pattern?
There's no need to knock SFCityBear, let alone attack him for using facts to support his position or to refute an argument. While I may not always agree with him, I have learned a considerable deal from his posts. His wealth if knowledge far outstrips mine (and probably others in this forum).
Leave the ad hominems at home.
I guess your memory is not as fresh as mine about SFCB's support of Wyking....I am using facts to base my opinion on and don't tell me what I can or can't post....History tends to repeat itself....Thanks for your opinion....Mine is just different than yours....
Well, my friend, then by all means present your evidence of my support for Wyking Jones. I do recollect that while I posted many statements critical of Jones, I did argue against firing Jones in his first year. I come from a generation where a contract is something that both parties agree to adhere to, and before me, my father was of a generation where most contracts were verbal, and agreed to with a handshake. And most people lived up to them. I would hope that Cal would continue to live up to its contracts and its word when hiring a coach or offering a recruit. Even if they hired a coach who is inept, like
Wyking, or a recruit who is not as good as the coach thought he would be, like Winston and McCullough. A man is only as good as his word.
I always feel a new coach should be given a couple of years, maybe 3 or even 4, depending on the growing body of evidence, to prove himself capable. If he hasn't shown good progress in 2 years, it is time to let him go, if the price isn't too great. By the end of Wyking's year two, I was hardly able to watch Cal play. It was painful to watch Wyking's growing pains. He lost the confidence of his players. I don't think they liked him very much. That is another of the coach's responsibilities, to mentor a player and a team to help all these kids mature into good men and solid citizens.
I often don't recollect exactly what I said in years past, but I do have a good memory of how I felt at most times in the past. And I never remember feeling positive, or even very hopeful, about the performance of Wyking Jones and his teams.
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These examples are all from the end of his second year as coach....I interpret these as support for Coach Jones getting a 3rd season as coach....
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Another similarity in the two coaches was the experience of the players on the roster. Jones did inherit two seniors and Coleman, but the rest was made up of sophs and whatever freshmen he could sign. Newell took over the USF program in 1946 from Bill Bussenius, who had coached one year, with a record of 9-12 (Bussenius was my Junior High coach, BTW, and went on to become a highly respected referee, reffing some Final Four games.) Newell, if he did inherit anything, would have been two sophs, Bennington and Giesen, and several freshmen. My point was that Newell took players off Bussenius's losing team, sophs and maybe some freshmen and built that group into a national championship team in their 3rd season under him. In 1947, Newell was 13-14, in 1948 USF was 13-11, and in 1949, they were 25-5. With the graduation of Bennington and Giesen, Newell was 19-7 in 1950, still good enough to get an NIT invite.
My disagreement with those who want the coach fired because he is losing games, and because the team's statistics are not good, is that records and statistics are affected by the competition. You play good teams and you are going to lose games and your stats are not going to look good. Wyking Jones may be the bad coach you all say he is, but NO COACH I know of has a younger team, and not many coaches have a shorter team. Every night Cal goes up against a mismatch in experience and height. Most teams, as Mike Montgomery said in a recent interview posted here, teams are usually made up of juniors and seniors and you try to augment that by recruiting freshmen who will take up those positions as the older players graduate. Wyking Jones has no such luxury. Like every new coach, he has to establish a program before he can look to shoring up his roster. And he has hundreds or thousands of fans who want success right now, expecting major school performance with kids just out of high school playing against a lot of seniors and juniors. Coaching in Newell's day might have been more important than today (IMO), but today is higher paid, and higher profile. Jones will likely get fired because of all that. Pete Newell likely could do no better with this team at this point. At USF, he was able to bring his team along slowly, as he learned coaching and they learned to play together. His NIT championship team had a rotation of two seniors and 5 juniors. Cal right now after two seasons has only one junior in the rotation, the rest are sophs and frosh. Boys playing against men, almost. Wyking Jones doesn't have a chance, and maybe never did.
PS: I love Cal and want them to win. Always have. I don't like firing coaches. Have you ever been fired? I have. Several times. Mostly office politics. Have you ever been a manager and had to fire someone? I've done that too, and was hated for it. It's a messy business, and affects those who do it and those who get it done to them, sometimes it ruins the latter for a long time. All of the Cal coaches who got fired went into oblivion and/or lesser jobs if any. The only coach I wanted fired was Bozeman, and I didn't feel good about that one either.
SFCityBearI appreciate the P.S.
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Cal's current roster deficiencies may have begun under Braun. He left Montgomery with a team of juniors (not all Braun's fault, as Theo and Kamp had to sit out years with injuries), but those juniors would all graduate after they won the PAC10 title, leaving Montgomery to have to fill a lot of holes fast. He finally got a handle on it, and left Cuonzo a few good players when he retired. Cuonzo seemed to want to make a quick name for himself at Cal, and went for one-and-dones and transfers, thereby leaving a weak roster for Jones. I did some research on how weak the roster was that Cuonzo gave to Jones. Here is a summary comparing his inherited roster to that of 10 other first-time Cal coaches beginning with Newell, listing the coach with the best inherited roster, the average inherited roster of all the coaches, and the roster inherited by Wyking Jones.
Great players inherited: Braun 5, Average 2.9, Jones 0 Lowest in Cal history.
Other good players: Newell 8, Average 4.4, Jones 2 Tied for lowest in Cal history.
Total great/good players: Padgett 10, Average 7.3, Jones 2 Lowest in Cal history
Previous Starters: Braun 6, Average 3.3, Jones 2 Tied for lowest in Cal history
Sophs: Padgett 6, Average 2.5, Jones 1 Tied for lowest in Cal history
Juniors: Campanelli 6, Average 3.2, Jones 1 Tied for lowest in Cal history
Seniors: Braun 6, Average 2.2, Jones 3 4th best in Cal history
Point Guards: Bozeman 3, Average 1.9, Jones 0 Lowest in Cal history.
Bigs: Braun 5: Average 2.9, Jones 2 Lowest in Cal history
Wings: 4 coaches tied with 3, Average 2.1, Jones 0 Lowest in Cal history
Off Guards: 9 coaches tied with 2, Average 1.9, Jones 1 Tied for lowest in Cal history
Records for the coaches in their first year:
Newell 9-16, Herrerias 13-9, Padgett 12-13, Edwards 11-15, Kuchen 6-21, Campanelli 17-10, Bozeman 22-8, Braun 23-9 (+Sweet 16), Montgomery 22-11, Martin 18-15, Jones 8-24
In his second year, Jones had lost 4 out of the 5 players he inherited from Cuonzo. Three graduated and one left. Looking at the inherited roster still left for second year of Wyking Jones:
Great players inherited: 0 Tied for lowest in Cal history
Other good players: Jones 0 Tied for lowest in Cal history
Total great/good players: Jones 0 Lowest in Cal history
Previous starters: Jones 0 Tied for lowest in Cal history
Sophs: Jones 0 Tied for lowest in Cal history
Juniors: Jones 1 Tied for 3rd lowest in Cal history
Seniors: Jones 0 Lowest in Cal history
PGs: Jones 0 Tied for lowest in Cal history
Bigs: Jones 0 Tied for lowest in Cal history
Wings: Jones 0 Tied for lowest in Cal history
SGs: Jones 0 Tied for lowest in Cal history
Second year records of the coaches:
Newell 17-8, Herrerias 8-17, Padgett 11-15, Edwards: 9-17, Kuchen 13-14, Campanelli 20-15, Bozeman 13-14, Braun 12-15, Montgomery 24-11, Martin 23-11,
Jones 8-22
One of the best and worst things that can happen to a coach is to inherit a lot of seniors. Braun inherited 6 seniors, went to the sweet 16, but in the next season, they all had graduated or left, and he had only two players returning, Marks and Kenyon Jones, and Braun went 12-15. Braun chose to bring in a bunch of veteran transfers like Gill, Kilgore, Carlisle, and Elson, and he sort of saved his second season from being really bad. The following season was 22-11, but then the team fell to 18-15 as all the veterans had graduated and Braun went entirely with recruits from that and the past season.
Rene inherited 5 seniors from Newell, who became starters for Rene, and the next season they had graduated and he had only 3 decent players left from a winning team, and he went 8-17. Jones lost 3 seniors and a junior, and had only Davis left from Cuonzo's roster. In his first season Jones needed to remake most of the roster and build a team around KO and Lee, in itself a very tall order, but once they were gone, he needed to remake the entire roster for his second season, and the results show it. It is quite a juggling act to try and fill all the positions with a starter and backup, and spread the talent out through all four classes, especially with players getting injured or leaving the program early.
SFCityBearYou are making a lot of assumptions here, and unless you have inside information how all these things happened, your post is mostly, if not all, speculation. Nothing wrong with speculating, but my post was mostly about facts. I gave you the barest of facts, the simplest of facts. A player is returning starter or he isn't. A player is a junior or he is of some other class. A player is a big or a point guard or a wing. You can have no argument with my facts. Only with what you in your dreams think I am concluding about Wyking Jones. I did make a value judgment about what players are great players, what players are good players, separating them from the rest of the players. If you have facts that dispute the facts in my post, I'd like to hear them.
I would like to say a word about the transfers Wyking Jones is responsible for losing. Charlie Moore left because his father had a stroke, and he wanted to be closer to his family. Somehow you feel Charlie Moore was not telling the truth, and that he left because Wyking Jones was not able to convince him or did not want him to stay.. Kam Rooks public statement was that his father had died suddenly and he wanted to transfer so he could be closer his family. You don't believe he was telling the truth, and that he left Cal because Wyking Jones was not able to convince him or did not want him to stay. Unless you have inside info, you are being very disrespectful to both players, and to Jones.
Let us say that Wyking had held on to Moore, Rooks and Baker. That could have made each team slightly better, I'd agree. Having an average point guard like Moore, would have helped the first Jones team, which had no point guard. Baker was reputed to be a scorer, so maybe that forces Coleman to the bench. Rooks provides a backup to Okoroh. It is a little better team, still with no post game from either. Perimeter defense still very suspect. I'd guess they win maybe 10-12 games. In year two, Jones again loses all his bigs to graduation, and you still lose Coleman, Jones still has to build an entire team around Moore and Davis.. With Moore at point guard, maybe Austin does not come to Cal. In any case, you still have weak perimeter defense, but a little better point guard. Again, my guess is the Bears win 10-12 games at most.
Stuff happens in basketball that we don't like. Players transfer. Players get hurt. Do you blame Cuonzo for the injuries to Bird and Wallace, which killed our chances in 2016? Did you blame Montgomery for the stress fractures of Kreklow and Cobbs, or Crabbe and Solomon both getting poked in an eye, or the tragic health problems of Rossi? Did you blame him for Solomon's plagiarizing a paper and drawing a suspension, or for losing Amoke for stealing a laptop? Dd you blame Braun for Powe's injury?
Many first year coaches lose players to transfer, and many lose players the previous coach had recruited. In very modern times, say the last 20 years or so, it is public knowledge what players have been recruited and committed, but prior to that, it was not public knowledge all the players a head coach missed out on.
I made no excuses for Wyking Jones. I am giving you facts which you refuse to acknowledge. I don't disagree with the basic complaints which you make about Jones' coaching (minus the exaggeration and hyperbole). I have said I have no opinion on whether Jones should stay or go. It is a decision that must. be made by considering all the factors, not just the whether the coaching during a game looks good or bad to you, or whether the team wins a lot of games or not, a bunch of freshman and sophs competing against teams which are loaded with juniors and seniors, not a team with only one frosh big (lately), competing against teams with multiple bigs of all ages.
What old school coaches am I hung up on? If you think Cuonzo is an old school coach,l then you must be a very young fellow. You should be embracing my looking at rosters, because most modern fans and coaches believe rosters are more important than anything. Recruit rankings are the Holy Grail. It is the old style coaches who wanted stars, but they were good enough to coach up average players into champions. With today's rules that cater to the highly skilled players, and far less teamwork, coaching and winning in the old way is near impossible.
What I am hung up on is how fans pay no attention to history, and if you don't pay attention to the mistakes that we made in the past, we are doomed to repeat those mistakes. To fire or retain a coach, a coach who has not committed any transgressions or violations of rules or conduct, all the factors must be considered, not just wins and losses. I could care less if he is retained or fired. I have no say in the decision, and no opinion on it, except that if the AD does not consider the deficient roster in his decision, he is no better than his two predecessors, who apparently did not consider much at all, which is one reason why we are in this mess.
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In the post about Fox's recruiting, you credit him with many of the recruits who signed with Nevada when he was an assistant....Wyking should get the same consideration here....I also like your reference to history....
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You are making a lot of assumptions here, and unless you have inside information how all these things happened, your post is mostly, if not all, speculation. Nothing wrong with speculating, but my post was mostly about facts. I gave you the barest of facts, the simplest of facts. A player is returning starter or he isn't. A player is a junior or he is of some other class. A player is a big or a point guard or a wing. You can have no argument with my facts. Only with what you in your dreams think I am concluding about Wyking Jones. I did make a value judgment about what players are great players, what players are good players, separating them from the rest of the players. If you have facts that dispute the facts in my post, I'd like to hear them.
I would like to say a word about the transfers Wyking Jones is responsible for losing. Charlie Moore left because his father had a stroke, and he wanted to be closer to his family. Somehow you feel Charlie Moore was not telling the truth, and that he left because Wyking Jones was not able to convince him or did not want him to stay.. Kam Rooks public statement was that his father had died suddenly and he wanted to transfer so he could be closer his family. You don't believe he was telling the truth, and that he left Cal because Wyking Jones was not able to convince him or did not want him to stay. Unless you have inside info, you are being very disrespectful to both players, and to Jones.
Let us say that Wyking had held on to Moore, Rooks and Baker. That could have made each team slightly better, I'd agree. Having an average point guard like Moore, would have helped the first Jones team, which had no point guard. Baker was reputed to be a scorer, so maybe that forces Coleman to the bench. Rooks provides a backup to Okoroh. It is a little better team, still with no post game from either. Perimeter defense still very suspect. I'd guess they win maybe 10-12 games. In year two, Jones again loses all his bigs to graduation, and you still lose Coleman, Jones still has to build an entire team around Moore and Davis.. With Moore at point guard, maybe Austin does not come to Cal. In any case, you still have weak perimeter defense, but a little better point guard. Again, my guess is the Bears win 10-12 games at most.
Stuff happens in basketball that we don't like. Players transfer. Players get hurt. Do you blame Cuonzo for the injuries to Bird and Wallace, which killed our chances in 2016? Did you blame Montgomery for the stress fractures of Kreklow and Cobbs, or Crabbe and Solomon both getting poked in an eye, or the tragic health problems of Rossi? Did you blame him for Solomon's plagiarizing a paper and drawing a suspension, or for losing Amoke for stealing a laptop? Dd you blame Braun for Powe's injury?
Many first year coaches lose players to transfer, and many lose players the previous coach had recruited. In very modern times, say the last 20 years or so, it is public knowledge what players have been recruited and committed, but prior to that, it was not public knowledge all the players a head coach missed out on.
I made no excuses for Wyking Jones. I am giving you facts which you refuse to acknowledge. I don't disagree with the basic complaints which you make about Jones' coaching (minus the exaggeration and hyperbole). I have said I have no opinion on whether Jones should stay or go. It is a decision that must. be made by considering all the factors, not just the whether the coaching during a game looks good or bad to you, or whether the team wins a lot of games or not, a bunch of freshman and sophs competing against teams which are loaded with juniors and seniors, not a team with only one frosh big (lately), competing against teams with multiple bigs of all ages.
What old school coaches am I hung up on? If you think Cuonzo is an old school coach,l then you must be a very young fellow. You should be embracing my looking at rosters, because most modern fans and coaches believe rosters are more important than anything. Recruit rankings are the Holy Grail. It is the old style coaches who wanted stars, but they were good enough to coach up average players into champions. With today's rules that cater to the highly skilled players, and far less teamwork, coaching and winning in the old way is near impossible.
What I am hung up on is how fans pay no attention to history, and if you don't pay attention to the mistakes that we made in the past, we are doomed to repeat those mistakes. To fire or retain a coach, a coach who has not committed any transgressions or violations of rules or conduct, all the factors must be considered, not just wins and losses. I could care less if he is retained or fired. I have no say in the decision, and no opinion on it, except that if the AD does not consider the deficient roster in his decision, he is no better than his two predecessors, who apparently did not consider much at all, which is one reason why we are in this mess.
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I believe we now have a better picture of Charlie Moore's motives....Kansas is not really that close to Chicago...
First, you place me in position of "AD-for-the-day", which is a position I don't want, would never accept. I was writing about what has happened up to now in this season. The scenario you describe where the AD makes a decision, is at the minimum couple of weeks away.
Second you describe or imply I am a "pumper." I'm a Cal pumper yes, but not a Wyking pumper. I have written a few posts describing my disappointment with some, maybe more than that, in the Fire Wyking crowd who write with ridicule, derision, utter contempt, and a few bordering on hate, for a coach trying hard to do his job. I have written a few times that I have no opinion on Wyking. I have an opinion on the Fire Wyking crowd, which is most of us on this forum. I feel that the sentiment to fire the coach began for some before the ink was dry on his contract. As the losses piled up, and the freshmen did not turn out to be the next Ivan or Jalen, more and more began to follow the Fire Wyking crowd. Incidentally, at the max, maybe before the UW game, how many of you are there? 35? 50? My other gripe with the Fire Wyking crowd is that the majority of you seem to care only about wins and losses. Some of you describe the way Cal plays under this coach, but almost none of you had considered the hand Wyking was dealt by Cuonzo. Two average senior big men plus Coleman, who could wreck a team all by himself. The entire front line graduates before year two, and now you start all over again with a badly deficient roster with no height, and only one viable upperclassman, Austin. Could you have had a coach who would likely have a better looking team out there, one with more of an offensive plan? Maybe. Would a better coach have brought you more wins? I say not likely. The other thing that most of you don't recognize is how few freshmen are good players on day 1 arriving at college. There are the exceptions, players who have matured in high school and are skilled enough to start from the get-go. So it was up to Jones in year one, beginning in April to chase after the few really good recruits left in the 2017 recruiting class who were not already committed to other schools. After that losing season, Jones hit the road again, trying to land recruits by selling them on coming to Cal, and about the only thing he had to offer was a chance to start right away if you were good enough to play. Grad transfer big men do not grow on trees. Not a scenario for landing the better recruits.
There are other things to consider when making an early decision to fire a coach. How is the team chemistry, including the coach? Do the players at least play hard? Are they maturing as young men? How are they doing in school? Are they plagiarizing or cheating? Are they stealing laptops? As for the coach, is he making under the table payments to anyone? Is he abusing any players? Many of you understand the money aspect far better than I, but that is a big part of the AD's review. Haas nowhere near capacity. All of it needs to be considered, not just wins and losses.
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You once again don't give Wyking the credit he deserves (at least according to your theory in regards to Fox's recruiting under Johnson)....And, as usual, you keep asserting your neutrality as far as retention is concerned....Your neutrality is not very convincing in any of these post.
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I have just lost an hour and a half of my life over this and will not continue with this exercise....I believe you were ready to stick with Wyking no matter what and nothing you say will ever convince me otherwise....
