I hope he's right. From: https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/06/27/pac-12-hoops-seat-heat/


Cal's Mark Fox
Signed through: 2023-24 season
Average salary: $1.65 million
Key stats: 15-43 in conference through three seasons … one of only two coaches in Cal history to lose 20+ games (overall) in back-to-back years (the other: his immediate predecessor, Wyking Jones)
Seat heat: Cal degree required to calculate
Comment: Fox spent one year performing meatball surgery on the mess Jones left behind and two years coaching in a pandemic that impacted his program more than most. He has one of the toughest jobs in the conference, but absent significant improvement in '23, Cal will be forced to move on.

>"… one of only two coaches in Cal history to lose 20+ games (overall) in back-to-back years (the other: his immediate predecessor, Wyking Jones)..."<

In all fairness add xAD Mike Williams' name to that list.

With each variant Fox's contract will get renewed. What a bonanza.

BC Calfan said:

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Wilner buying the covid excuse too. Shameful.

A hypothetical exercise I like to think of with sports personnel: If this Coach/AD/GM gets fired tomorrow, what are his options and most likely next step?

In the case of Fox, AT BEST he gets a bottom tier D-1 head coaching gig.

In the case of Knowlton, he probably is never an AD again.

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I want to clarify my "at best" scenario for Fox.

At best, I can see him landing a low tier D-1 coaching gig but I'm talking about the worst. Like San Jose St. woudn't even hire him. Looking at the worst teams in the worst conferences, I'm talking about schools like UMass-Lowell, Elon, Fairleigh Dickinson and the like.

Probably the more likely scenario if he's fired is 1) taking time off 2) An assistant at a P5 or 3) TV analyst even though I'd find this hard to imagine given his *****ly personality.

BC Calfan said:

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BC Calfan said:

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Wilner buying the covid excuse too. Shameful.

A hypothetical exercise I like to think of with sports personnel: If this Coach/AD/GM gets fired tomorrow, what are his options and most likely next step?

In the case of Fox, AT BEST he gets a bottom tier D-1 head coaching gig.

In the case of Knowlton, he probably is never an AD again.

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I want to clarify my "at best" scenario for Fox.

At best, I can see him landing a low tier D-1 coaching gig but I'm talking about the worst. Like San Jose St. woudn't even hire him. Looking at the worst teams in the worst conferences, I'm talking about schools like UMass-Lowell, Elon, Fairleigh Dickinson and the like.

Probably the more likely scenario if he's fired is 1) taking time off 2) An assistant at a P5 or 3) TV analyst even though I'd find this hard to imagine given his *****ly personality.

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So, a lateral move.

BC Calfan said:

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Wilner buying the covid excuse too. Shameful.

A hypothetical exercise I like to think of with sports personnel: If this Coach/AD/GM gets fired tomorrow, what are his options and most likely next step?

In the case of Fox, AT BEST he gets a bottom tier D-1 head coaching gig.

In the case of Knowlton, he probably is never an AD again.

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I actually do believe that for Fox to "work" (and a big huge IF which I do not believe) he really needs to coach lesser talent into a cohesive whole. It is clear in year 1 that he CAN teach and also clear that COVID impacted that. Why it matters is that honestly UCLA and USC and ZOna and to an extent oregon really can just roll out the ball and have superior athletes win on talent.

Now this also means that Fox's ceiling is so low. He can not RECRUIT and that is not on Vid. He sucks at it. And that is why he might eech out 7 wins in conference when he can teach it is about the highest level the school can apsire to with him at the wheel.

socaltownie said:

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I actually do believe that for Fox to "work" (and a big huge IF which I do not believe) he really needs to coach lesser talent into a cohesive whole...

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So he should be coaching in a league where nobody recruits.

Dick Kutchen tried that. Same results.

stu said:

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socaltownie said:

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I actually do believe that for Fox to "work" (and a big huge IF which I do not believe) he really needs to coach lesser talent into a cohesive whole...

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So he should be coaching in a league where nobody recruits.

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Like a pro league in eastern Europe, where every team has a relatively low talent level.

stu said:

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socaltownie said:

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I actually do believe that for Fox to "work" (and a big huge IF which I do not believe) he really needs to coach lesser talent into a cohesive whole...

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So he should be coaching in a league where nobody recruits.

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Recruiting?
We dont need no stinking recruiting!!!

His slow motion half court O along w/his type of D might fit in well w/an Ivy League school.

Dgoldnbaer said:

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His slow motion half court O along w/his type of D might fit in well w/an Ivy League school.

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Or a military academy. We should send Knowlton back to Air Force and have him take Fox with him.

oskidunker said:

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Dick Kutchen tried that. Same results.

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I'm not going to look up Kuchen's record at Yale, but he apparently fooled'em for 12 seasons. Let's face it, every school doesn't have the pressure to win. Fox may not find an Ivy League job, but there are hundreds of D-1 and D-2 schools out there, many of which don't aspire to basketball greatness, that would almost certainly hire him. The pay won't be great, but many of them are in cheap places to live and he could coach a few more years and then retire. As long as Fox hasn't invested his Cal paychecks in crypto currency, he should already have a nice nest egg.

Won 231. Lost 301.

Kuchen's coaching record.
I had forgotten just how horrible he was when I was an undergrad.
My Lord!

Only 4 out of 13 seasons at Yale were above .500

Dick Kuchen Coaching Record | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

DiabloWags said:

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Kuchen's coaching record.
I had forgotten just how horrible he was when I was an undergrad.
My Lord!

Only 4 out of 13 seasons at Yale were above .500

Dick Kuchen Coaching Record | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

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So, does that say more about Yale or more about Kuchen?
I graduated before Kuchen arrived and was out of NorCal for most of his tenure, but aside from a few good players, I don't recall the teams being very competitive.

HearstMining said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Kuchen's coaching record.
I had forgotten just how horrible he was when I was an undergrad.
My Lord!

Only 4 out of 13 seasons at Yale were above .500

Dick Kuchen Coaching Record | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

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So, does that say more about Yale or more about Kuchen?
I graduated before Kuchen arrived and was out of NorCal for most of his tenure, but aside from a few good players, I don't recall the teams being very competitive.

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The cupboard was completely bare when Kuchen arrived. He recruited a few good players, but not enough to get us over the hump. After our top 2-3 players, there was usually a huge drop-off through the rotation. I will say, he was a pretty decent guy (unless you're talking to Sam Potter) and, when he left, the program was incrementally better than when he came in. Campanelli had some players to work with... and he did.

HearstMining said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Kuchen's coaching record.
I had forgotten just how horrible he was when I was an undergrad.
My Lord!

Only 4 out of 13 seasons at Yale were above .500

Dick Kuchen Coaching Record | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

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So, does that say more about Yale or more about Kuchen?
I graduated before Kuchen arrived and was out of NorCal for most of his tenure, but aside from a few good players, I don't recall the teams being very competitive.

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He had a great young team at the end with Kevin Johnson, Chris Washington, Leonard Taylor, and Dave Butler as the core, but then Butler got hurt early and he couldn't figure out who to play at the other forward spots, playing in order of minutes Jeff Thilgen, Jim Beatie, Eddie Javius, Ernie Sears (more a guard), Buzz Butler, Richard Chang and Jeff Huling. I felt like he gave the small non-scoring Thilgen too many minutes and starts and should have played Chang and Huling more.

I'm pretty sure he played Kevin Johnson at the 2. Basically, KJ was the fastest/quickest player I'd ever seen, a future NBA All-Star, and the strategy should have been built around him.

We went 13-15 (5-13) and Kutchen was fired. We then hired Campanelli who Mark Fox reminds me of in style and temperament.

Thanks for the color guys.
Much appreciated!

HearstMining said:

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Fox may not find an Ivy League job, but there are hundreds of D-1 and D-2 schools out there, many of which don't aspire to basketball greatness, that would almost certainly hire him.

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You've just perfectly described Cal.

Buddy Teevans says Hello.

Golden One said:

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HearstMining said:

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Fox may not find an Ivy League job, but there are hundreds of D-1 and D-2 schools out there, many of which don't aspire to basketball greatness, that would almost certainly hire him.

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You've just perfectly described Cal.

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Bingo.

DiabloWags said:

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Golden One said:

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HearstMining said:

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Fox may not find an Ivy League job, but there are hundreds of D-1 and D-2 schools out there, many of which don't aspire to basketball greatness, that would almost certainly hire him.

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You've just perfectly described Cal.

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Bingo.

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Yeah, I thought about parenthetically specifying Cal but resisted the urge.

HearstMining said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Golden One said:

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HearstMining said:

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Fox may not find an Ivy League job, but there are hundreds of D-1 and D-2 schools out there, many of which don't aspire to basketball greatness, that would almost certainly hire him.

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You've just perfectly described Cal.

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Bingo.

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Yeah, I thought about parenthetically specifying Cal but resisted the urge.

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".500! It's aspirational!" is about as catchy as "Invest and attack!"

Two baskets and a Ball.

Big C said:

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HearstMining said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Golden One said:

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HearstMining said:

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Fox may not find an Ivy League job, but there are hundreds of D-1 and D-2 schools out there, many of which don't aspire to basketball greatness, that would almost certainly hire him.

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You've just perfectly described Cal.

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Bingo.

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Yeah, I thought about parenthetically specifying Cal but resisted the urge.

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".500! It's aspirational!" is about as catchy as "Invest and attack!"

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Yeah, aiming for .500 (ie mediocrity) by hiring a confirmed .500 coach is just so Knowlton.

stu said:

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I wonder how many more years we'll hear the pandemic excuse.

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Until the next pandemic.

KoreAmBear said:

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stu said:

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I wonder how many more years we'll hear the pandemic excuse.

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Until the next pandemic.

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Monkey Pox is here. New day, new excuse.