I got a very quick response to my email to the AD. It's a done deal. No, I am not kidding.

I still think we land Travis. I'm denying reality.

ducky23 said:

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sycasey said:

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OaktownBear said:

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This is plain and simple a Sonny Dykes hire.

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That's my sense of it. Feels like Sonny Dykes, basketball version.

Of course, you never know, maybe he'll turn out to be great. I wouldn't put money on it.

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I'd argue that the dykes hire, at the time, had way more upside. He was coming off of some pretty successful seasons with la tech (relatively speaking) and we at least knew coming in that he had some very innovative offensive philosophies (we just didn't know how bad his defenses actually were). In theory, there was some upside to his hiring

But fox had 9 years at Georgia, his record declined while there and he was eventually fired. I don't see after 1 year off he now has the ability to turn cal b-ball around when he already failed at another power conference school. It's not like cal is an easier job (more likely it's even harder)

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That's true, Sonny was actually better.

Yikes.

I'll just say this, if the response I received is indicative of what you'll hear at the introductory presser - and I suspect it will - there's a pretty sizable disconnect between the few of us who post on the hoops thread and our leadership, though not with influential donors, it appears, since they are probably funding this change.

helltopay1 said:

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To all those who demanded that WJ be fired: Are you happy now??

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Oh, this is better than Wyking. I don't like it, but it's a step up without a doubt.

This Is horrible. We may be in for a decade of mediocre basketball. Just good enough to not get fired. Remember how excruciating the last years of Ben Braun were?
I had higher hopes for Knowlton.
I'm crying over DeCuire.

PtownBear1 said:

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ducky23 said:

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Dare I say I might have preferred just keeping wyking over this bs

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Sadly, I agree. At least WJ was starting to trend up. Fox reached a middling ceiling and ended his HC career trending down.

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WJ wasn't trending up. Last place in the worst P5 conference going. Fox ended 18-15 in a better conference.

This is not an endorsement of Fox.

I'm curious what input if any Knowlton had from Sean Marks, Shareef, Kerr, maybe Van Gundy who does seem to be a fan. I know what Monty said but those guys all have sharp basketball minds.

Fox worked with Van Gundy on the National Team

bluesaxe said:

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helltopay1 said:

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To all those who demanded that WJ be fired: Are you happy now??

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Oh, this is better than Wyking. I don't like it, but it's a step up without a doubt.

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Just about anybody would be better than Wyking. It's a step up almost by default.

bluesaxe said:

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PtownBear1 said:

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ducky23 said:

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Dare I say I might have preferred just keeping wyking over this bs

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Sadly, I agree. At least WJ was starting to trend up. Fox reached a middling ceiling and ended his HC career trending down.

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WJ wasn't trending up. Last place in the worst P5 conference going. Fox ended 18-15 in a better conference.

This is not an endorsement of Fox.

I'm curious what input if any Knowlton had from Sean Marks, Shareef, Kerr, maybe Van Gundy who does seem to be a fan. I know what Monty said but those guys all have sharp basketball minds.

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Fox is a better coach than Jones. Which is to say he sucks less. If we are going to suck, might as well suck with $3M in our pocket. Fox will not bring in $3M more in ticket sales. And I'm not counting that they will probably pay Fox more than Jones was getting.

If FOX is Cal next HC, than the donors should get ready to pony $ in two-three years for another buyout.

This thread presupposes Cal is a job in-demand.

I thought getting an up-and-comer mid-major HC or P5 assistant makes more sense...but to get a guy 15 years HC experience, nearly a decade in a P5 conference isn't insane. If Fox had a lot of success at Georgia, we wouldn't be able to get him.

It appears JK knew Fox was his guy before even firing Wyking given it's been only 5 days...and I thought job has to be posted for 10 days anyways...and I don't know why Cal or Fox would leak this information

So we just got a guy with a 286-176 head coaching record and who coaches good fundamental basketball to take over a dumpster fire program with no practice facility? I think I will give this guy a chance.

For whatever it's worth, Mike Silver and Roxy Bernstein have each consumed a large glass of Jim Knowlton's Kool-Aid...

annarborbear said:

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So we just got a guy with a 286-176 head coaching record and who coaches good fundamental basketball to take over a dumpster fire program with no practice facility? I think I will give this guy a chance.

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Do you understand the role of message boards ? This seems like a calm rational post. Completely out of place.

All kidding aside. I am not excited about the hire, but would be willing to see what he Fox can do.

Knowlton with a tenure defining WHIFF. I selfishly feel like he's taken away my joy and anticipation of an exciting future for Cal b-ball.

All of this love for DeCuire is borderline irrational. Based on this thread, it seems like he's the next Coach K.

Knowlton made a good decision. Fox is a solid hire.

emanbears24 said:

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All of this love for DeCuire is borderline irrational. Based on this thread, it seems like he's the next Coach K.

Knowlton made a good decision. Fox is a boring hire

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GBear4Life said:

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This thread presupposes Cal is a job in-demand.

I thought getting an up-and-comer mid-major HC or P5 assistant makes more sense...but to get a guy 15 years HC experience, nearly a decade in a P5 conference isn't insane. If Fox had a lot of success at Georgia, we wouldn't be able to get him.

It appears JK knew Fox was his guy before even firing Wyking given it's been only 5 days...and I thought job has to be posted for 10 days anyways...and I don't know why Cal or Fox would leak this information

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Well, that's the trouble though. If your program is not in-demand or able to pay a lot of money, then going after retread coaches from middling P5 teams seems like something not likely to level up the program, if that is indeed your goal. Going after a cheap young up-and-comer is the way to go, because of the higher potential upside.

Like we did in football with Wilcox. He's not guaranteed to be great, but that's the kind of hire I'd prefer to see.

RJABear said:

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All kidding aside. I am not excited about the hire, but would be willing to see what he Fox can do.

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This is exactly where I'm at.

bluesaxe said:

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PtownBear1 said:

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ducky23 said:

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Dare I say I might have preferred just keeping wyking over this bs

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Sadly, I agree. At least WJ was starting to trend up. Fox reached a middling ceiling and ended his HC career trending down.

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WJ wasn't trending up. Last place in the worst P5 conference going. Fox ended 18-15 in a better conference.

This is not an endorsement of Fox.

I'm curious what input if any Knowlton had from Sean Marks, Shareef, Kerr, maybe Van Gundy who does seem to be a fan. I know what Monty said but those guys all have sharp basketball minds.

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Monty promoted TD's candidacy for two reasons: TD was HIS guy and he also believes he'd be good.

I'd bet anything that Monty appreciates Mark Fox as a guy with integrity and as a competent coach. I'm not endorsing this seemingly-low-ceiling hire, just asking "WWMT" (What would Monty think?)

In fact, let's see how he compares to the great MM himself: Mark Fox is the second coming of Mike Mongomery, except less gruff and not as good a basketball coach! There, does that make him sound any better?

(Yes, I am being somewhat sarcastic. Dunno where else to go with it.)

emanbears24 said:

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All of this love for DeCuire is borderline irrational. Based on this thread, it seems like he's the next Coach K.

Knowlton made a good decision. Fox is a solid hire.

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Okay then, let me ask two questions:

1. What do you think are reasonable acceptable results for Cal Basketball (in terms of win-loss record)

2. How do you expect Fox is going to achieve those results?


I want to know because either your answer to #1 is far too low or your answer to #2 is way off base.

OaktownBear said:

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emanbears24 said:

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All of this love for DeCuire is borderline irrational. Based on this thread, it seems like he's the next Coach K.

Knowlton made a good decision. Fox is a solid hire.

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Okay then, let me ask two questions:

1. What do you think are reasonable acceptable results for Cal Basketball (in terms of win-loss record)

2. How do you expect Fox is going to achieve those results?


I want to know because either your answer to #1 is far too low or your answer to #2 is way off base.

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Sadly you know the answer here - that what the powers that be aspire to is about 500 BB and an occasional NIT invite. What they don't get is how the NIT has changed - making it actually pretty hard for P5 teams to get in.

If that is the hurdle (and I think it is) Mark Fox is just about perfect. Will never get the team sactioned, will have the grey hairs waxing on about how Mark reminds them of the tight sets Newell ran and a consistent 5 to 8 seed in the Pac12 tournament.

This is a hire that SCREAMS that they don't want to compete.

But hey, donors are happy with swimming so everything is OK

Cal being Cal.

Let me preface my response with this. Fox was obviously not my top choice (I would have also preferred DeCuire over him), but this is not the awful hire that this board is making it to be. I think it's a realistic reflection of the program's current state.

1) Based on where the program currently is, I think 20 win seasons should be the goal with a tournament berth every two or three years. Once we establish ourselves as a solid, consistent program and add a practice facility, our expectations can change.

2) Mark Fox is a well-respected X's and O's coach, especially among the travel ball circuits. As I have mentioned elsewhere, my main concern with Fox is recruiting. His recruiting at Georgia was very underwhelming. Hiring Trent Johnson and keeping Grace do help alleviate this concern. With the right assistants, I think Fox has the coaching chops to move Cal back to a consistent 20 win program.

What are the chances this report is incorrect?

GBear4Life said:

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This thread presupposes Cal is a job in-demand.

I thought getting an up-and-comer mid-major HC or P5 assistant makes more sense...but to get a guy 15 years HC experience, nearly a decade in a P5 conference isn't insane. If Fox had a lot of success at Georgia, we wouldn't be able to get him.

It appears JK knew Fox was his guy before even firing Wyking given it's been only 5 days...and I thought job has to be posted for 10 days anyways...and I don't know why Cal or Fox would leak this information

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1. That is always the Cal fan excuse for not expecting better hires. If the Cal job isn't in demand, it is Knowlton's job to make it so.

2. Decuire makes $175K. If he doesn't want the job there are plenty of guys at that level who haven't already proven to be unacceptable.

stu said:

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What are the chances this report is incorrect?

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95%

stu said:

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What are the chances this report is incorrect?

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None. AD has been email folks and let the team members know. FOx is our new guy. Presser this weekend? Definitely by Monday.

socaliganbear said:

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It's wild that donors here have no pull. The university will just keep feeding you s*it.

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Stanford lets its donors get involved (very involved). Cal says "givusmoney" followed by "FU." Anyone investing a dime in this program is a glutton for pain. Total waste of time and resources.

emanbears24 said:

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Let me preface my response with this. Fox was obviously not my top choice (I would have also preferred DeCuire over him), but this is not the awful hire that this board is making it to be. I think it's a realistic reflection of the program's current state.

1) Based on where the program currently is, I think 20 win seasons should be the goal with a tournament berth every two or three years. Once we establish ourselves as a solid, consistent program and add a practice facility, our expectations can change.

2) Mark Fox is a well-respected X's and O's coach, especially among the travel ball circuits. As I have mentioned elsewhere, my main concern with Fox is recruiting. His recruiting at Georgia was very underwhelming. Hiring Trent Johnson and keeping Grace do help alleviate this concern. With the right assistants, I think Fox has the coaching chops to move Cal back to a consistent 20 win program.

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He "might" be able to.

But here is his fundamental problem - he HAS to be able to OCCASIONALLY beat the big 4 (UCLA, Oregon, Zona and pick either Washington or USC depending on the year) to be able to hit your mark. Otherwise he has to run the table with cupcakes in the pre season and consistently stomp on BDW.

And that, above, is the Ben Braun profile. The problem with it is that all it takes is one of the BDWs rising up - or some stumbles in pre-season tournaments - to take you from 20/21 wins to 17.

For Cal to get to 20 wins it MUST be able to go 2-6 against the top 4. Nothing Fox has demonstrated in the years suggests that he can do it.

Too lazy (and frustrated to look) but did he EVER beat Kentucky while at Georgia?

EricBear said:

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bearister said:

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EricBear said:

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joe amos yaks said:

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Everybody should just settle down and be positive.
This is not a personal thing about any coach.

Go Bears!

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Fan sites are about discussion, not cheerleading.

Let everyone pick at this hire. It's the right thing to do. Ultimately I think it will be alright.

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At least you have several months to work on your Sybil in game self discussion technique.

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Indeed I do. Will need to be much more engaging with myself next season. Frankly, part of me got pretty bored with some of the stuff I was discussing with myself during the game threads.

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As you know, I am a tease. Your insight alone brings me to the board during the games. You know your hoop so I learn something. You also have a great sense of humor. No, I'm not going to ask for a loan after that.