Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

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oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Read it again. Nyt correct. Now, I will push back on the person misreading the JAMA study. This is the place I discuss this stuff. I don't tweet etc...


Not sure I follow. Didn't you just admit that you misread the study?

EDIT: I should have also addressed this more specifically:

You said:
Quote:

you say the myocarditis is not serious based on the nyt data because it implies that 13 out of 19 vaccine induced myocarditis patients leave the hospital within 3 weeks.
The JAMA paper says this:

Quote:

Nineteen patients (95%; 95% CI, 76%-99%) were admitted to the hospital. All were discharged after a median of 2 days (IQR, 2-3 days). There were no readmissions or deaths. Two patients received a second vaccination after onset of myocarditis; neither had worsening of symptoms. At last available follow-up (median, 23.5 days [IQR, 4.8-41.3 days] after symptom onset), 13 patients (65%; 95% CI, 43%-82%) had symptom resolution and 7 (35%; 95% CI, 18%-57%) were improving.
So the median hospital time was 2 days. No one died and only 7 out of 2 million vaccinated individuals in the study showed any symptoms of myocarditis after 3 weeks. I don't want to minimize the fact that 19 out of 2 million had to spend a few nights in the hospital, but EVEN IF if were the case that 100% of these cases were directly resulting from mRNA and wouldn't happen with COVID, it's a very small risk. The way you stated the facts is extremely misleading and meant to cause alarm. Similar to whoever decided to print 57 out of 100k when the myocarditis number is actually 1 out of 100k (or 3 out of 100k when you include pericarditis). Right now more than 1,400 children are hospitalized with COVID - a novel virus with unknown long-term implications. Why are people like you perfectly comfortable rolling the dice with that, but not with the small chance that someone will develop myocarditis that will resolve quickly? The answer is obvious - this isn't about health and safety but about a crusade.




Zealot, take some reading comprehension classes or at least learn to listen.
Only an anti-vaxxer would call someone who advocates for public health to be a zealot.

The irony of you constantly misrepresenting facts "accidentally" in order to make the vaccines look bad directing me to take reading comprehensions classes is delicious.

Why don't you tell me specifically where I've been wrong so I can address any questions or concerns you may have.


You are wrong in your attitude and smug disgust of anything questioning the eua vaccines.
LOL my attitude is that we should be taking reasonable steps to protect people from COVID. As for my "smug disgust" it's pretty focused on people who purposefully spread misinformation, including smart people like you who regularly misinterpret information in the light most unfavorable to vaccines.

You have become radicalized and seem to have trouble separating fact from fiction.


I am not radicalized at all. I am having a discussion about covid vaccines on this forum. I am not always 100% right. I realized that the NYT was correct and posted such and then emphasized that I would correct the source that was incorrect and further emphasized that I largely express EUA vaccine concerns here. You blasted me. You have accused me of killing people.

These vaccines are safe compared to covid. Heck, they're probably safer than skydiving. However, they are absolutely not safer than other vaccines.

For example, the HIB vaccine has never had a serious side effect. Contrast that with the smallpox vaccine which can cause serious side effects and kills 1.5 per million. Now, we have a dangerous virus and a vaccine more dangerous than the smallpox vaccine. I believe Novavax, Inovio, and others have safer vaccines that are effective. Novavax at least should be available in other countries soon despite the delays caused by the U.S. government.

Despite all this, I got the Moderna vaccine. I hope my wife who got Pfizer vaccine in December has lasting protection. I hope the boosters are as safe as the second dose, even though it has knocked some of my employees out of work and left me feeling miserable for twelve hours. I have been right about a lot of things along the way. My company is 96% vaxxed. I told my right hand person in June when we got attestations and proofs of vax that I feared we'd have to force wearing masks again before the end of July. She laughed at me. It is hard to now enforce masks again, but I gotta do it.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Read it again. Nyt correct. Now, I will push back on the person misreading the JAMA study. This is the place I discuss this stuff. I don't tweet etc...


Not sure I follow. Didn't you just admit that you misread the study?

EDIT: I should have also addressed this more specifically:

You said:
Quote:

you say the myocarditis is not serious based on the nyt data because it implies that 13 out of 19 vaccine induced myocarditis patients leave the hospital within 3 weeks.
The JAMA paper says this:

Quote:

Nineteen patients (95%; 95% CI, 76%-99%) were admitted to the hospital. All were discharged after a median of 2 days (IQR, 2-3 days). There were no readmissions or deaths. Two patients received a second vaccination after onset of myocarditis; neither had worsening of symptoms. At last available follow-up (median, 23.5 days [IQR, 4.8-41.3 days] after symptom onset), 13 patients (65%; 95% CI, 43%-82%) had symptom resolution and 7 (35%; 95% CI, 18%-57%) were improving.
So the median hospital time was 2 days. No one died and only 7 out of 2 million vaccinated individuals in the study showed any symptoms of myocarditis after 3 weeks. I don't want to minimize the fact that 19 out of 2 million had to spend a few nights in the hospital, but EVEN IF if were the case that 100% of these cases were directly resulting from mRNA and wouldn't happen with COVID, it's a very small risk. The way you stated the facts is extremely misleading and meant to cause alarm. Similar to whoever decided to print 57 out of 100k when the myocarditis number is actually 1 out of 100k (or 3 out of 100k when you include pericarditis). Right now more than 1,400 children are hospitalized with COVID - a novel virus with unknown long-term implications. Why are people like you perfectly comfortable rolling the dice with that, but not with the small chance that someone will develop myocarditis that will resolve quickly? The answer is obvious - this isn't about health and safety but about a crusade.




Zealot, take some reading comprehension classes or at least learn to listen.
Only an anti-vaxxer would call someone who advocates for public health to be a zealot.

The irony of you constantly misrepresenting facts "accidentally" in order to make the vaccines look bad directing me to take reading comprehensions classes is delicious.

Why don't you tell me specifically where I've been wrong so I can address any questions or concerns you may have.


You are wrong in your attitude and smug disgust of anything questioning the eua vaccines.
LOL my attitude is that we should be taking reasonable steps to protect people from COVID. As for my "smug disgust" it's pretty focused on people who purposefully spread misinformation, including smart people like you who regularly misinterpret information in the light most unfavorable to vaccines.

You have become radicalized and seem to have trouble separating fact from fiction.


I told my right hand person in June when we got attestations and proofs of vax that I feared we'd have to force wearing masks again before the end of July. She laughed at me.
Credit where credit is due. You were right about the fact that the mRNA vaccines weren't going to protect us from all breakthrough infections. Delta certainly has been a problem even in SF where 70% are fully vaccinated.
okaydo
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Lane Kiffin is the anti-hanky1

Unit2Sucks
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Oops. I wonder what new scam the Ivermectin crowd will move onto next. Maybe "doing your own research" isn't their best bet and they should rely on tested and recommended therapeutics like dexamethasone or whatever their health care professional recommends.


oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Read it again. Nyt correct. Now, I will push back on the person misreading the JAMA study. This is the place I discuss this stuff. I don't tweet etc...


Not sure I follow. Didn't you just admit that you misread the study?

EDIT: I should have also addressed this more specifically:

You said:
Quote:

you say the myocarditis is not serious based on the nyt data because it implies that 13 out of 19 vaccine induced myocarditis patients leave the hospital within 3 weeks.
The JAMA paper says this:

Quote:

Nineteen patients (95%; 95% CI, 76%-99%) were admitted to the hospital. All were discharged after a median of 2 days (IQR, 2-3 days). There were no readmissions or deaths. Two patients received a second vaccination after onset of myocarditis; neither had worsening of symptoms. At last available follow-up (median, 23.5 days [IQR, 4.8-41.3 days] after symptom onset), 13 patients (65%; 95% CI, 43%-82%) had symptom resolution and 7 (35%; 95% CI, 18%-57%) were improving.
So the median hospital time was 2 days. No one died and only 7 out of 2 million vaccinated individuals in the study showed any symptoms of myocarditis after 3 weeks. I don't want to minimize the fact that 19 out of 2 million had to spend a few nights in the hospital, but EVEN IF if were the case that 100% of these cases were directly resulting from mRNA and wouldn't happen with COVID, it's a very small risk. The way you stated the facts is extremely misleading and meant to cause alarm. Similar to whoever decided to print 57 out of 100k when the myocarditis number is actually 1 out of 100k (or 3 out of 100k when you include pericarditis). Right now more than 1,400 children are hospitalized with COVID - a novel virus with unknown long-term implications. Why are people like you perfectly comfortable rolling the dice with that, but not with the small chance that someone will develop myocarditis that will resolve quickly? The answer is obvious - this isn't about health and safety but about a crusade.




Zealot, take some reading comprehension classes or at least learn to listen.
Only an anti-vaxxer would call someone who advocates for public health to be a zealot.

The irony of you constantly misrepresenting facts "accidentally" in order to make the vaccines look bad directing me to take reading comprehensions classes is delicious.

Why don't you tell me specifically where I've been wrong so I can address any questions or concerns you may have.


You are wrong in your attitude and smug disgust of anything questioning the eua vaccines.
LOL my attitude is that we should be taking reasonable steps to protect people from COVID. As for my "smug disgust" it's pretty focused on people who purposefully spread misinformation, including smart people like you who regularly misinterpret information in the light most unfavorable to vaccines.

You have become radicalized and seem to have trouble separating fact from fiction.


I told my right hand person in June when we got attestations and proofs of vax that I feared we'd have to force wearing masks again before the end of July. She laughed at me.
Credit where credit is due. You were right about the fact that the mRNA vaccines weren't going to protect us from all breakthrough infections. Delta certainly has been a problem even in SF where 70% are fully vaccinated.




It is becoming clearer that the mRNA vaccines have waning immunity. 3rd dose/boost may extend it more than another 4-6 months. Other vaccines may or may not last longer.

Fauci still believes the general public does not need boosters yet (says only immunocompromised). I disagree and feel first responders and 40+ should get them soon, prioritizing those older first.

Asked whether the general public will need one, Fauci said "at this moment, other than the immunocompromised, we're not going to be giving boosters." However, he acknowledged that "inevitably there will come a time where we'll have to get boosts" because "no vaccine, at least not within this category, is going to have an indefinite amount of protection."

I personally believe he is stubborn and will never admit that anything but Moderna is the best vaccine. It may or may not be.
...

Pfizer July data is on 42% effective against infections. We don't have specific July data for hospitalizations, but we all know it is still very effective there.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/herd-immunity-is-mythical-with-the-covid-delta-variant-experts-say.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=Main&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1628764890

BearForce2
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Quote:

"Notably, the vaccination rate in Chile is relatively high; the percentage of the people who received at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine was [about] 60%," the authors write.

"Nevertheless, a big COVID-19 surge has occurred in Chile in Spring 2021, suggesting that the Lambda variant is proficient in escaping from the antiviral immunity elicited by vaccination," they warn.
oski003
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In the Moderna kids study, data for UNSOLICITED EVENTS. An unsolicited event is something the trial does not ask the participants nor prep them of as a possibility. It has to be volunteered, as opposed to being asked in a questionaire.

out of

1200, 40 kids/events on the placebo went to the hospital within 28 days of injection for events either related or unrelated to the vaccine.

2400, 156 kids/events with the vaccine went to the hospital within 28 days of injection for events either related or unrelated to the vaccine.

They narrowed down the 156 events to 19 that were vaccine related out of the 156 events.

13%, about 300, had Grade 3 solicited adverse effects, but I do not have a breakdown.

Grades 3 (severe) are severe and undesirable adverse events (e.g., significant symptoms requiring hospitalization or invasive intervention; transfusion; elective interventional radiological procedure; therapeutic endoscopy or operation).

They are expanding the study to get more data.
oski003
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Canadian data is indicating that Moderna is more likely to cause myocarditis than us authorities thought. The information was leaked by two scientists. Possibly 2.5x more likely than Pfizer.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/19/moderna-vaccine-myocarditis/
Unit2Sucks
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Yet another reason to vax. We are about to see an escalation of medical bankruptcies.

BearForce2
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They couldn't hide it anymore.
philbert
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I haven't visited this thread since it got moved to OT, but I saw this and had to share.


bearister
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No ICU beds left in Alabama. tRump sees it as his job to provide wheezing Deplorables to be stacked like lumber in hospital corridors.

Trump to stage Alabama rally as state struggles with Covid surge


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/21/trump-alabama-rally-mo-brooks-senate-coronavirus-covid?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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BearForce2
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Wow
oski003
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Study on Pfizer Durability. Antibodies drop tremendously at 6 months.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.15.21262067v2
bearister
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And White fear and racial hatred are the drivers. So strong that it will send many of them to hospital corridors. They won't be saved by Regeneron like the Fat Man was and that allowed him to have his Covita moment on the Truman Balcony.

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okaydo
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AunBear89
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Culling the herd.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Unit2Sucks
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Nailed it.

okaydo
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I've become fascinated with Phil Valentine.






Apparently, he was a big deal conservative radio host (unlike the others who have died):



His dad, a former Democratic U.S. Congressman, died at age 89 in 2015. Just 6 years ago! If he had lived to his dad's age, he could've had another 3 decades of life.

Instead he chose to do "my patriotic duty for natural her immunity."




I first heard of ivermectin four days ago when I saw this tweet.This was before it started becoming national news. So I did a Twitter search and found a lot of positive results.



Followed 2 days later by this tweet.




Turns out Phil Valentine was posting about ivermectin after he got covid.





oski003
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https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/rev-jesse-jackson-wife-hospitalized-coronavirus/index.html

I am not sure if Reverend Jesse Jackson or his wife took Ivermectin. They were vaccinated, got covid, and are both hospitalized. Stay vigilant even if vaxed.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/rev-jesse-jackson-wife-hospitalized-coronavirus/index.html

I am not sure if Reverend Jesse Jackson or his wife took Ivermectin. They were vaccinated, got covid, and are both hospitalized. Stay vigilant even if vaxed.


Curious that there hasn't been any disclosure about his condition. It seems when some prominent people have COVID they go to the hospital and receive regeneron (like Greg Abbott) even when they aren't very sick. It's not a trend I like because it takes away care from people who need it. Given that Jackson is a self-important grifter, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's what is happening. I hope he and his wife are fine and don't wish them ill, but I am skeptical of the fact that they are both hospitalized with no information about their condition. It sounds like he also has Parkinson's so perhaps he is immuno compromised in addition to being almost 80 years old.

Which brings me to my last point - why do we still not have any information about hospitalizations and deaths of vaccinated people by age cohorts?
okaydo
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bearister
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Sometimes the Frankenstein you created turns on you.
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oski003
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Half the reason why vaccine efficacy has dropped lately. They started testing those vaccinated for covid. Before, they weren't, unless hospitalized.

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-cdc-only-tracks-a-fraction-of-breakthrough-covid-19-infections-even-as-cases-surge
okaydo
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AunBear89
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okaydo said:



Now we know what BearFarce is up to when he isn't posting or spit shining Trump's boots.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
BearNIt
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philbert said:

I haven't visited this thread since it got moved to OT, but I saw this and had to share.



Pfizer will get full authorization for its vaccine. What will be the excuse now? Don't take animal dewormer, it doesn't work. The sad thing is that there will be people who actually take dewormer.
BearForce2
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BearNIt said:


Pfizer will get full authorization for its vaccine. What will be the excuse now? Don't take animal dewormer, it doesn't work. The sad thing is that there will be people who actually take dewormer.

46% effective. The sad thing is people who got the vaccine will eventually get Covid.
BearNIt
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BearForce2 said:

BearNIt said:


Pfizer will get full authorization for its vaccine. What will be the excuse now? Don't take animal dewormer, it doesn't work. The sad thing is that there will be people who actually take dewormer.

46% effective. The sad thing is people who got the vaccine will eventually get Covid.
Hence the booster shot. If you get the vaccine, chances are you won't end up in the ICU and you won't die. If you don't get the vaccine, if you are infected with the delta variant you are rolling the dice as to your outcome. In instance after instance those in the ICU are broken down as follows: 9/10 patient's in the ICU are unvaccinated and those who die are overwhelmingly unvaccinated. We are moving towards a mandate.
BearForce2
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If you received both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, do you need the booster if you're still alive?
BearNIt
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BearForce2 said:

If you received both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, do you need the booster if you're still alive?
There are ongoing trials concerning the mixing of the vaccines. Should know shortly if you can get both the Pfizer and Moderna shots safely. My guess is if approved for the two different shots you will be alive afterward.
oski003
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Pfizer approval
bearister
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College students on high COVID alert ahead of return to campus - Axios


https://www.axios.com/college-students-delta-variant-campus-07a5d70b-dc27-4bd1-9158-67362d026c53.html
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Cal89
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Maybe now with full FDA approval for Pfizer, ages 16+, I would like to think the most vax-reluctant PhDs (Carnegie Mellon University study) will finally feel more comfortable with the decision.
Sig test...
dimitrig
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Many schools started in LA last week.

By Friday at least two different colleagues of mine who have elementary school aged children who went back to school had developed a cough, fever, head/body aches and sore throat.

They got COVID tests over the weekend and, yep, they have it.

Both were vaccinated although I don't know with which vaccine.

What a mess.





 
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