Unit2Sucks said:Obviously most young people will fight off COVID without getting severe illness. No one has ever said otherwise.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:What is your estimate for how many young people are dying of myocarditis caused by the vaccine?oski003 said:I wish you would be honest or at least have better reading comprehension. Nobody ever said that the 1/5000 figure was for fatal myocarditis. If that were true, people would be dropping dead left and right. It is for people who had symptoms, went to the doctor or hospital, and were diagnosed with myocarditis, which is serious. The study indicates that most people with vaccine caused myocarditis are not hospitalized for more than three days.Unit2Sucks said:I think it would be helpful if you were honest about myocarditis. It's a scary sounding heart problem that resolves perfectly within a week or two in the vast majority of cases. It only very rarely results in anything serious. There is no indication that myocarditis cases are more severe when connected to mRNA vaccines. If the risk of fatal myocarditis or even long-term disability from myocarditis was 1/5,000 that would be a completely different thing but it's not.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:
More information on mRNA vaccine safety. In a large Israeli study recently submitted to the NEJM, they show that other than a small risk of myocarditis (which is 4x higher in people infected with COVID), the safety profile is quite strong, and even seems to have benefits beyond just COVID risk reduction. Importantly, they found that the majority of the adverse events under study (eg the unverified events submitted to VAERS which disingenuous anti-vaxxers had been relying on for months to try to pretend like the vaccines were unsafe), were not linked to the Pfizer vaccine.
From News-Medical:Quote:
A deep look into a nationwide mass vaccination setting in Israel revealed that the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis. However, even that potentially severe adverse event is much more pervasive following the infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), found a new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM).
...
In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis.
On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 infection was linked to a substantially elevated risk of myocarditis (11 events per 100,000 persons), alongside the risk of pericarditis, arrhythmia, pulmonary embolism, deep-vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, thrombocytopenia, and intracranial hemorrhage.
The study has also shown that the risk of myocarditis is basically increased by a factor of three following vaccination. Furthermore, among the 21 persons with myocarditis in the group that received the vaccine, the median age was 25 years and there was a substantial male predominance.
Certain unexpected effects were also observed, as PfizerBioNTech vaccine appears to offers a degree of protection against conditions such as intracranial hemorrhage and anemia, possibly by halting SARS-CoV-2 infection, which is a known risk factor for such events.
Lipstick on a Pig:
Intro/Conclusion: "the BNT162b2 (PfizerBioNTech) vaccine is not linked with an elevated risk of a majority of the adverse events under study, with the exception of myocarditis."
Support: "In short, the study has shown that vaccination was strongly associated with an increased risk of myocarditis (2.7 events per 100,000 persons), as well as lymphadenopathy (which occurred relatively frequent with 78.5 events per 100,000 persons), herpes zoster infection (which can translate to an increased risk of Bell's palsy) and appendicitis..." and being infected with Covid 19 is worse.
My conclusion: the vaccines have poor safety profiles but Covid is much more dangerous and there is a good chance you will eventually get it. So, get vaccinated. We are still testing in under 16, but we have transitioned dissenters out of the FDA so it should be approved soon. There are no other options but mRNA and the JnJ DNA vaccine which enters the nucleus, but the CDC tweets that it doesn't. Therefore, it is Covid or these new vaccine techs. Be vaccinated with them or risk Covid, which is worse.
... Edited to add that the risk of myocarditis in young teenagers is around 1/5,000. This is only acceptable in the absence of other alternatives and the purpose is to prevent the youths from getting ill (vs spreading infection). These vaccines will not prevent infection due to variants and waning humoral immunity.
Also, there's no way to study this, but there is also no reason to believe that a person who suffers from myocarditis from the vaccine wouldn't have also had myocarditis (or worse) from COVID itself. Given the high risk of myocarditis from COVID, I think that's a reasonable concern. Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID and if you don't get the vaccine you are far more likely to get COVID.
Also, "Bottom line, if you are concerned with myocarditis, you are less likely to get it from the vaccine than from COVID." Your statement might not be true for teenagers and younger. The spike protein appears to be what is causing myocarditis. Successfully fighting off exposure to the virus is safer than being injected with the Spike Protein.
Finally,THE VACCINE is safer than covid 19. Yes, that is certainly true. Howeverm the only reason we have THE VACCINE is because other vaccine development was delayed and then scuttled once mrna was found effective.
Why do you believe that young people are less likely to get myocarditis from COVID than the vaccine?
Myocarditis is serious and scary but it's typically treatable and typically fully resolves within days or weeks. Thousands of Americans get it every year, and unfortunately it can be fatal for some people, particularly if unnoticed or untreated. The best way to reduce your child's risk of myocarditis is to protect them from COVID.
Probably a handful of young people in the USA have died from vaccine caused myocarditis. Young people may naturally fight off covid 19 without getting severe illness. Obviously, the risk of severe illness (including myocarditis) with covid 19 is greater than such risks with mRNA vaccines. Yes, the best way of protecting your child from myocarditis is protecting them from covid. However, that does not mean the best way of protecting your child from myocarditis is a myocarditis causing vaccine.
Most young people have no reason to fear myocarditis on connection with mRNA vaccines either. It's extremely rare, far more rare than negative outcomes from COVID. According to the study referenced here, males aged 12 to 17 are almost 7x as likely to suffer from myocarditis from COVID than the vaccine. Obviously the two groups are mutually exclusive, but I don't see any reason to believe that there is a lot of overlap between the two groups.
6x likely to get myocarditis IF INFECTED WITH COVID 19 then to get it from mRNA vaccination FOLLOWING DOSE 2. Not at all the same as your misleading interpretation of the study.