Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

175,681 Views | 3037 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by bearister
oski003
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Sweden health officials are anti-vax. Can't they see how this sort of rhetoric is causing thousands of people to commit covid suicide daily? Sarcasm.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-decides-against-recommending-covid-vaccines-kids-aged-5-12-2022-01-27/
Unit2Sucks
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Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.

Quote:

The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America

Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.

Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.

Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.
Unit2Sucks
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Oh hey, 003 asked if there was a good place for his anti-mRNA musings. I think I found it. Rather than spamming us for free, you can charge people to be mislead by you and to sacrifice themselves on the alter of conservative tribalism.

Quote:

Anti-vaxxers making 'at least $2.5m' a year from publishing on Substack

Center for Countering Digital Hate research calculates that anti-vaccine figures could be making $12.5m from the online platform

A group of vaccine-sceptic writers are generating revenues of at least $2.5m (1.85m) a year from publishing newsletters for tens of thousands of followers on the online publishing platform Substack, according to new research.

Prominent figures in the anti-vaccine movement including Dr Joseph Mercola and Alex Berenson have large followings on Substack, which has more than 1 million paying subscribers who sign up for individual newsletters from an array of authors who include novelist Salman Rushdie, the writer musician Patti Smith and former Downing Street adviser Dominic Cummings.

Mercola, a US alternative medicine doctor and prolific producer of anti-vaccine content, and Alex Berenson, a journalist banned from Twitter last year after questioning the efficacy of Covid-19 vaccines, are among five vaccine sceptics on the platform who earn themselves and Substack a minimum of $2.5m a year from their newsletters. Under Substack's business model, writers keep about 90% of the subscription income, with the platform taking 10% and payment company Stripe charging the writers 3% of their take.

Research by the Center for Countering Digital Hate, a campaign group, showed that Mercola's newsletters made a minimum of $1m a year from charging subscribers an annual fee of $50, with Berenson making at least $1.2m from charging people $60. Three other vaccine sceptic newsletters, from tech entrepreneur Steven Kirsch, virologist Robert Malone and anonymous writer Eugyppius, generate about $300,000 between them.
bearister
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Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
bearister
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US donated over 400m Covid-19 vaccine doses to 112 countries, says White House


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/26/us-covid-vaccine-donation-400-million-white-house?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.

Quote:

The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America

Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.

Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.

Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.


3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
oski003
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bearister said:

US donated over 400m Covid-19 vaccine doses to 112 countries, says White House


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/26/us-covid-vaccine-donation-400-million-white-house?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Yeah, I posted this already. $2 billion dollars of
U.S. taxpayer money going to Pfizer for $15 vaccines while the WHO is begging for money for $6 vaccines that are easier to distribute and don't spoil right away. Dollar bills y'all.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

Oh hey, 003 asked if there was a good place for his anti-mRNA musings. I think I found it. Rather than spamming us for free, you can charge people to be mislead by you and to sacrifice themselves on the alter of conservative tribalism.

Quote:

Anti-vaxxers making 'at least $2.5m' a year from publishing on Substack

Center for Countering Digital Hate research calculates that anti-vaccine figures could be making $12.5m from the online platform

A group of vaccine-sceptic writers are generating revenues of at least $2.5m (1.85m) a year from publishing newsletters for tens of thousands of followers on the online publishing platform Substack, according to new research.

Prominent figures in the anti-vaccine movement including Dr Joseph Mercola and Alex Berenson have large followings on Substack, which has more than 1 million paying subscribers who sign up for individual newsletters from an array of authors who include novelist Salman Rushdie, the writer musician Patti Smith and former Downing Street adviser Dominic Cummings.

Mercola, a US alternative medicine doctor and prolific producer of anti-vaccine content, and Alex Berenson, a journalist banned from Twitter last year after questioning the efficacy of Covid-19 vaccines, are among five vaccine sceptics on the platform who earn themselves and Substack a minimum of $2.5m a year from their newsletters. Under Substack's business model, writers keep about 90% of the subscription income, with the platform taking 10% and payment company Stripe charging the writers 3% of their take.

Research by the Center for Countering Digital Hate, a campaign group, showed that Mercola's newsletters made a minimum of $1m a year from charging subscribers an annual fee of $50, with Berenson making at least $1.2m from charging people $60. Three other vaccine sceptic newsletters, from tech entrepreneur Steven Kirsch, virologist Robert Malone and anonymous writer Eugyppius, generate about $300,000 between them.



This post just demonstrates how off base you are. I have no intention of profiting/being part of an echo chamber. I would much rather discuss the facts here, even if you make terrible accusations against me. I want intelligent readers here to evaluate the US health response and the large pharmaceuticals companies role in it. I am not here to convince people to avoid vaccination. I wish more people were vaccinated against covid 19.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.

Quote:

The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America

Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.

Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.

Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.


3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
NYTimes says it's 3,895.



Blaming this on Biden is pathetic. Talk about false equivalences by bringing evangelical moralizing on abstinence into the equation is risible.

Here's what Biden said. It was in September, months after conservative tribalists had become entrenched in their death cult. This isn't on Biden, it's on them. It's on their leaders. It's on the people who continue to provide false and misleading information to them. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Quote:

This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans
who have failed to get the shot.

And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable.

Third, if you wonder how all this adds up, here's the math: The vast majority of Americans are doing the right thing. Nearly three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one quarter has not gotten any. That's nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated. And in a country as large as ours, that's 25 percent minority. That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage and they are.

oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.

Quote:

The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America

Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.

Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.

Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.


3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
NYTimes says it's 3,895.



Blaming this on Biden is pathetic. Talk about false equivalences by bringing evangelical moralizing on abstinence into the equation is risible.

Here's what Biden said. It was in September, months after conservative tribalists had become entrenched in their death cult. This isn't on Biden, it's on them. It's on their leaders. It's on the people who continue to provide false and misleading information to them. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Quote:

This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans
who have failed to get the shot.

And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable.

Third, if you wonder how all this adds up, here's the math: The vast majority of Americans are doing the right thing. Nearly three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one quarter has not gotten any. That's nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated. And in a country as large as ours, that's 25 percent minority. That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage and they are.


There have been a lot of things throughout this process that have undermined trust in vaccines, such as the 75 years argued by the FDA to hide the Pfizer approval documents. There has clearly been safety signals that have been bypassed/ignored with mrna and jnj approvals because of the emergencies of covid 19.

My figures are from worldometers.info by the way.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.

Quote:

The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America

Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.

Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.

Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.


3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
NYTimes says it's 3,895.



Blaming this on Biden is pathetic. Talk about false equivalences by bringing evangelical moralizing on abstinence into the equation is risible.

Here's what Biden said. It was in September, months after conservative tribalists had become entrenched in their death cult. This isn't on Biden, it's on them. It's on their leaders. It's on the people who continue to provide false and misleading information to them. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Quote:

This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans
who have failed to get the shot.

And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable.

Third, if you wonder how all this adds up, here's the math: The vast majority of Americans are doing the right thing. Nearly three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one quarter has not gotten any. That's nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated. And in a country as large as ours, that's 25 percent minority. That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage and they are.


There have been a lot of things throughout this process that have undermined trust in vaccines, such as the 75 years argued by the FDA to hide the Pfizer approval documents. There has clearly been safety signals that have been bypassed/ignored with mrna and jnj approvals because of the emergencies of covid 19.

My figures are from worldometers.info by the way.
Please tell us when you think people became hardened against COVID vaccines.

Then stop pretending like anything that happened after that date was responsible for the pre-existing antagonism. You continue to mention things that are well beyond that date. In a few months you will probably point to things that haven't even happened yet.

As for the numbers, not sure why there is a discrepancy between worldometers and NYT. I suppose it could be due to one or more states purposefully not publicizing their numbers - like Florida - in order to downplay the continuing toll of the pandemic. It now takes several months before Florida reports all of their deaths, and even then it's hard to trust that they aren't monkeying with the data. I check every once in a while and it looks like Florida's August death toll is still rising (their peak was below 400 for a while and now is at 426 from August 28). Another reason they do that is so that anti-public health people can continue to claim that Florida's numbers are improving when we really have no idea. Right now Florida is showing January 7 as it's deadliest day of the current wave, with 76 deaths. Anyone want to hazard a guess what we will see for January 7 in a few months? Or when the deaths will actually peak?
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.

Quote:

The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America

Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.

Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.

Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.


3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
NYTimes says it's 3,895.



Blaming this on Biden is pathetic. Talk about false equivalences by bringing evangelical moralizing on abstinence into the equation is risible.

Here's what Biden said. It was in September, months after conservative tribalists had become entrenched in their death cult. This isn't on Biden, it's on them. It's on their leaders. It's on the people who continue to provide false and misleading information to them. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Quote:

This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans
who have failed to get the shot.

And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable.

Third, if you wonder how all this adds up, here's the math: The vast majority of Americans are doing the right thing. Nearly three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one quarter has not gotten any. That's nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated. And in a country as large as ours, that's 25 percent minority. That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage and they are.


There have been a lot of things throughout this process that have undermined trust in vaccines, such as the 75 years argued by the FDA to hide the Pfizer approval documents. There has clearly been safety signals that have been bypassed/ignored with mrna and jnj approvals because of the emergencies of covid 19.

My figures are from worldometers.info by the way.
Please tell us when you think people became hardened against COVID vaccines.

Then stop pretending like anything that happened after that date was responsible for the pre-existing antagonism. You continue to mention things that are well beyond that date. In a few months you will probably point to things that haven't even happened yet.

As for the numbers, not sure why there is a discrepancy between worldometers and NYT. I suppose it could be due to one or more states purposefully not publicizing their numbers - like Florida - in order to downplay the continuing toll of the pandemic. It now takes several months before Florida reports all of their deaths, and even then it's hard to trust that they aren't monkeying with the data. I check every once in a while and it looks like Florida's August death toll is still rising (their peak was below 400 for a while and now is at 426 from August 28). Another reason they do that is so that anti-public health people can continue to claim that Florida's numbers are improving when we really have no idea. Right now Florida is showing January 7 as it's deadliest day of the current wave, with 76 deaths. Anyone want to hazard a guess what we will see for January 7 in a few months? Or when the deaths will actually peak?



I don't have the unhealthy level of polarizing black and white, us vs them thinking that you do to have some specific date when the people you despise all became "anti-vaxxers; however, people may have become skeptical when the following things happened:

1) Democratic leaders attacked the ows vaccines as rushed without going through proper safety trials and said they would not take these rushed vaccines.

2) Trump wouldn't openly take a vaccine and downplayed covid.

3) It was uncovered that the head of ows was on the Moderna board and had stock in Moderna and Sanofi.

4) Pfizer and Moderna PR'd amazing efficacy results, almost acting as if a competition where one is like 94% and the other coming just after at 95%. Wall Street Journal ran an article about science by PR and how much money executives were making from stock sales.

5) After authorization, some Moderna and Pfizer vaccine recipients had severe and potentially deadly anaphylactic shock reactions to the PEG in the mRNA vaccines.

6) JnJ was authorized despite their plant never being inspected and tons of batches were discovered to be contaminated and mixed with ingredients from other vaccines.

JnJ had to halt their phase 3 as the investigators determined a deadly condition was vax caused yet JnJ said no and was allowed to continue. JnJ is halted in several countries for this deadly condition.

"The clotting disorder is called thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS), and it is rarein 17 million people who got J&J, 54 cases of TTS were reported, 36 of those people were cared for in an intensive care unit, and nine people died (which represents over 15% of cases).Two additional deaths also may be linked to the vaccine.

Based on these numbers, the risk appears to be greatest1 in 100,000in women ages 30 to 49. This updated CDC recommendation follows similar recommendations from other countries, including Canada and the United Kingdom.

The J&J vaccine is still available. The FDA, which has updated its fact sheet on the shot, still says that the risks of the virus are greater than the risks of the J&J vaccine. If you got the J&J shot, your risk of TTS would be expected to be low. In terms of timing, all of these cases were identified within two weeks of the person receiving the vaccine."

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots#:~:text=The%20clotting%20disorder%20is%20called,over%2015%25%20of%20cases).

JnJ also should failed their P3 efficacy standard against infection but were the only vaccine allowed to measure against moderate and severe illness. It is falsely marketed as a traditional one shot vaccine. It is neither.

7) myocarditis was confirmed as caused by mRNA vaccines in basically every developed country except the USA until the USA finally confirmed it after months of denial.

8) the 95% efficacy numbers get thrown out the window because the vaccines aren't durable and covid mutates, which coronaviruses are prone to do.

9) Pfizer and Moderna don't have any liability for the side effects of their vaccines.

Please note this is hardly an all inclusive list.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.

Quote:

The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America

Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.

Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.

Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.


3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
NYTimes says it's 3,895.



Blaming this on Biden is pathetic. Talk about false equivalences by bringing evangelical moralizing on abstinence into the equation is risible.

Here's what Biden said. It was in September, months after conservative tribalists had become entrenched in their death cult. This isn't on Biden, it's on them. It's on their leaders. It's on the people who continue to provide false and misleading information to them. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Quote:

This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans
who have failed to get the shot.

And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable.

Third, if you wonder how all this adds up, here's the math: The vast majority of Americans are doing the right thing. Nearly three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one quarter has not gotten any. That's nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated. And in a country as large as ours, that's 25 percent minority. That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage and they are.


There have been a lot of things throughout this process that have undermined trust in vaccines, such as the 75 years argued by the FDA to hide the Pfizer approval documents. There has clearly been safety signals that have been bypassed/ignored with mrna and jnj approvals because of the emergencies of covid 19.

My figures are from worldometers.info by the way.
Please tell us when you think people became hardened against COVID vaccines.

Then stop pretending like anything that happened after that date was responsible for the pre-existing antagonism. You continue to mention things that are well beyond that date. In a few months you will probably point to things that haven't even happened yet.

As for the numbers, not sure why there is a discrepancy between worldometers and NYT. I suppose it could be due to one or more states purposefully not publicizing their numbers - like Florida - in order to downplay the continuing toll of the pandemic. It now takes several months before Florida reports all of their deaths, and even then it's hard to trust that they aren't monkeying with the data. I check every once in a while and it looks like Florida's August death toll is still rising (their peak was below 400 for a while and now is at 426 from August 28). Another reason they do that is so that anti-public health people can continue to claim that Florida's numbers are improving when we really have no idea. Right now Florida is showing January 7 as it's deadliest day of the current wave, with 76 deaths. Anyone want to hazard a guess what we will see for January 7 in a few months? Or when the deaths will actually peak?



I don't have the unhealthy level of polarizing black and white, us vs them thinking that you do to have some specific date when the people you despise all became "anti-vaxxers; however, people may have become skeptical when the following things happened:

1) Democratic leaders attacked the ows vaccines as rushed without going through proper safety trials and said they would not take these rushed vaccines.

2) Trump wouldn't openly take a vaccine and downplayed covid.

3) It was uncovered that the head of ows was on the Moderna board and had stock in Moderna and Sanofi.

4) Pfizer and Moderna PR'd amazing efficacy results, almost acting as if a competition where one is like 94% and the other coming just after at 95%. Wall Street Journal ran an article about science by PR and how much money executives were making from stock sales.

5) After authorization, some Moderna and Pfizer vaccine recipients had severe and potentially deadly anaphylactic shock reactions to the PEG in the mRNA vaccines.

6) JnJ was authorized despite their plant never being inspected and tons of batches were discovered to be contaminated and mixed with ingredients from other vaccines.

JnJ had to halt their phase 3 as the investigators determined a deadly condition was vax caused yet JnJ said no and was allowed to continue. JnJ is halted in several countries for this deadly condition.

"The clotting disorder is called thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS), and it is rarein 17 million people who got J&J, 54 cases of TTS were reported, 36 of those people were cared for in an intensive care unit, and nine people died (which represents over 15% of cases).Two additional deaths also may be linked to the vaccine.

Based on these numbers, the risk appears to be greatest1 in 100,000in women ages 30 to 49. This updated CDC recommendation follows similar recommendations from other countries, including Canada and the United Kingdom.

The J&J vaccine is still available. The FDA, which has updated its fact sheet on the shot, still says that the risks of the virus are greater than the risks of the J&J vaccine. If you got the J&J shot, your risk of TTS would be expected to be low. In terms of timing, all of these cases were identified within two weeks of the person receiving the vaccine."

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots#:~:text=The%20clotting%20disorder%20is%20called,over%2015%25%20of%20cases).

JnJ also should failed their P3 efficacy standard against infection but were the only vaccine allowed to measure against moderate and severe illness. It is falsely marketed as a traditional one shot vaccine. It is neither.

7) myocarditis was confirmed as caused by mRNA vaccines in basically every developed country except the USA until the USA finally confirmed it after months of denial.

8) the 95% efficacy numbers get thrown out the window because the vaccines aren't durable and covid mutates, which coronaviruses are prone to do.

9) Pfizer and Moderna don't have any liability for the side effects of their vaccines.

Please note this is hardly an all inclusive list.
Patented 003 cocktail of misleading statements some of which are conspiratorial and many of which have had no impact.

Few points I would make. First, lol to "potentially deadly" allergic reactions. Hundreds of million Americans have had the mRNA jabs. Who died? According to this study, it's pretty typical risk for allergic people compared to other health care exposures.

Second, let's dispense with pretending democratic skepticism it so blame for the anti vax crusade. The best predictor of vaccine status is partisan lean. Republicans overwhelmingly make up the unvaxxed. In what world would republicans listen to democratic leaders only about this one thing but democrats would ignore it entirely? It's such an obvious BS claim, that only a person with an agenda would make it. You don't believe anything democratic leaders say about the vaccines except their dated criticism? Spare us the hysterics.

As for efficacy, the vaccines are still remarkably effective against severe disease and death. According to recent data, something like 13x against infection and 68x against death. Everyone in 2020 would have loved those results. Almost 4k unvaccinated Americans died yesterday alone and you think the problem is because manufacturers claimed high efficacy numbers? Do you hear yourself? It's preposterous.

I will finally note that all of these things were well known by spring 2020, just after Biden took office and we'll before his September speech that you blamed for anti vax sentiment or his December Omicron statement that you probably would also point to. This isn't on Biden this is on the unvaccinated and the people they listen to. We know a lot about the unvaccinated and who they listen to. It's people like you, conservative leaders (including morons like Ron Johnson), media figures like Tucker Carlson, and idiot bloggers like Joe Rogan. Don't point the finger at Biden or Kamala Harris and expect anyone to consider you credible here.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.

Quote:

The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America

Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.

Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.

Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.


3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
NYTimes says it's 3,895.



Blaming this on Biden is pathetic. Talk about false equivalences by bringing evangelical moralizing on abstinence into the equation is risible.

Here's what Biden said. It was in September, months after conservative tribalists had become entrenched in their death cult. This isn't on Biden, it's on them. It's on their leaders. It's on the people who continue to provide false and misleading information to them. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Quote:

This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans
who have failed to get the shot.

And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable.

Third, if you wonder how all this adds up, here's the math: The vast majority of Americans are doing the right thing. Nearly three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one quarter has not gotten any. That's nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated. And in a country as large as ours, that's 25 percent minority. That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage and they are.


There have been a lot of things throughout this process that have undermined trust in vaccines, such as the 75 years argued by the FDA to hide the Pfizer approval documents. There has clearly been safety signals that have been bypassed/ignored with mrna and jnj approvals because of the emergencies of covid 19.

My figures are from worldometers.info by the way.
Please tell us when you think people became hardened against COVID vaccines.

Then stop pretending like anything that happened after that date was responsible for the pre-existing antagonism. You continue to mention things that are well beyond that date. In a few months you will probably point to things that haven't even happened yet.

As for the numbers, not sure why there is a discrepancy between worldometers and NYT. I suppose it could be due to one or more states purposefully not publicizing their numbers - like Florida - in order to downplay the continuing toll of the pandemic. It now takes several months before Florida reports all of their deaths, and even then it's hard to trust that they aren't monkeying with the data. I check every once in a while and it looks like Florida's August death toll is still rising (their peak was below 400 for a while and now is at 426 from August 28). Another reason they do that is so that anti-public health people can continue to claim that Florida's numbers are improving when we really have no idea. Right now Florida is showing January 7 as it's deadliest day of the current wave, with 76 deaths. Anyone want to hazard a guess what we will see for January 7 in a few months? Or when the deaths will actually peak?



I don't have the unhealthy level of polarizing black and white, us vs them thinking that you do to have some specific date when the people you despise all became "anti-vaxxers; however, people may have become skeptical when the following things happened:

1) Democratic leaders attacked the ows vaccines as rushed without going through proper safety trials and said they would not take these rushed vaccines.

2) Trump wouldn't openly take a vaccine and downplayed covid.

3) It was uncovered that the head of ows was on the Moderna board and had stock in Moderna and Sanofi.

4) Pfizer and Moderna PR'd amazing efficacy results, almost acting as if a competition where one is like 94% and the other coming just after at 95%. Wall Street Journal ran an article about science by PR and how much money executives were making from stock sales.

5) After authorization, some Moderna and Pfizer vaccine recipients had severe and potentially deadly anaphylactic shock reactions to the PEG in the mRNA vaccines.

6) JnJ was authorized despite their plant never being inspected and tons of batches were discovered to be contaminated and mixed with ingredients from other vaccines.

JnJ had to halt their phase 3 as the investigators determined a deadly condition was vax caused yet JnJ said no and was allowed to continue. JnJ is halted in several countries for this deadly condition.

"The clotting disorder is called thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS), and it is rarein 17 million people who got J&J, 54 cases of TTS were reported, 36 of those people were cared for in an intensive care unit, and nine people died (which represents over 15% of cases).Two additional deaths also may be linked to the vaccine.

Based on these numbers, the risk appears to be greatest1 in 100,000in women ages 30 to 49. This updated CDC recommendation follows similar recommendations from other countries, including Canada and the United Kingdom.

The J&J vaccine is still available. The FDA, which has updated its fact sheet on the shot, still says that the risks of the virus are greater than the risks of the J&J vaccine. If you got the J&J shot, your risk of TTS would be expected to be low. In terms of timing, all of these cases were identified within two weeks of the person receiving the vaccine."

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots#:~:text=The%20clotting%20disorder%20is%20called,over%2015%25%20of%20cases).

JnJ also should failed their P3 efficacy standard against infection but were the only vaccine allowed to measure against moderate and severe illness. It is falsely marketed as a traditional one shot vaccine. It is neither.

7) myocarditis was confirmed as caused by mRNA vaccines in basically every developed country except the USA until the USA finally confirmed it after months of denial.

8) the 95% efficacy numbers get thrown out the window because the vaccines aren't durable and covid mutates, which coronaviruses are prone to do.

9) Pfizer and Moderna don't have any liability for the side effects of their vaccines.

Please note this is hardly an all inclusive list.
Patented 003 cocktail of misleading statements some of which are conspiratorial and many of which have had no impact.

Few points I would make. First, lol to "potentially deadly" allergic reactions. Hundreds of million Americans have had the mRNA jabs. Who died? According to this study, it's pretty typical risk for allergic people compared to other health care exposures.

Second, let's dispense with pretending democratic skepticism it so blame for the anti vax crusade. The best predictor of vaccine status is partisan lean. Republicans overwhelmingly make up the unvaxxed. In what world would republicans listen to democratic leaders only about this one thing but democrats would ignore it entirely? It's such an obvious BS claim, that only a person with an agenda would make it. You don't believe anything democratic leaders say about the vaccines except their dated criticism? Spare us the hysterics.

As for efficacy, the vaccines are still remarkably effective against severe disease and death. According to recent data, something like 13x against infection and 68x against death. Everyone in 2020 would have loved those results. Almost 4k unvaccinated Americans died yesterday alone and you think the problem is because manufacturers claimed high efficacy numbers? Do you hear yourself? It's preposterous.

I will finally note that all of these things were well known by spring 2020, just after Biden took office and we'll before his September speech that you blamed for anti vax sentiment or his December Omicron statement that you probably would also point to. This isn't on Biden this is on the unvaccinated and the people they listen to. We know a lot about the unvaccinated and who they listen to. It's people like you, conservative leaders (including morons like Ron Johnson), media figures like Tucker Carlson, and idiot bloggers like Joe Rogan. Don't point the finger at Biden or Kamala Harris and expect anyone to consider you credible here.


You wrote most of this answer before I even posted. You are only interested in winning an argument and, apparently, "prosecuting" alleged anti-vaxxers.

Posting this JAMA article to try to shoot down my list by saying anaphylactic shock reactions aren't potentially deadly is sad. You are absolutely wrong and you just googled and smugly act like a journal written during a mass vaccination effort somehow dismisses my list and then you go on some partisan rampage. F you. There is a reason we sit for 15-30 minutes under observation post mRNA shot. I don't question the journals data necessarily, but it is written to persuade the scientific community that the anaphylactic risks are there but ameliorated in a proper medical setting (epi pens, emergency personnel nearby etc).

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/anaphylaxis/symptoms-causes/syc-20351468

"Anaphylaxis is a severe, potentially life-threatening allergic reaction. It can occur within seconds or minutes of exposure to something you're allergic to, such as peanuts or bee stings."

Nowhere did I say every single thing on that list discouraged every single person who could and didn't get vaccinated from doing so, but you treat the list like it does. There will always be a portion of the population that will fight vaccines, and it gets larger if the vaccines have issues. There are people who can't take an mRNA shot and JnJ is a poor only alternative.

We both have the goal of saving lives. Let's hope we can get more tools to do so that aren't sold by Pfizer.
Unit2Sucks
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More hysterics because I challenge your agenda. It's hilarious to describe something as "potentially" life threatening when hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated without any deaths. And yet thousands of unvaccinated die every day. COVID is the potentially life threatening condition people should be worried about not allergic reactions.

By the way, I agree the messaging could have been better in the allergic reactions. It's only potentially an issue for people who have a history of severe allergic reactions which is a very small subset of the population. No one else should be waiting at the pharmacy post jab. I know I didn't after any of mine, nor did we with my children or wife.

Fear of theoretical allergic reaction is not the reason millions of conservative tribes people are exposing themselves to excess COVID risk. Thanks for playing though.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

More hysterics because I challenge your agenda. It's hilarious to describe something as "potentially" life threatening when hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated without any deaths. And yet thousands of unvaccinated die every day. COVID is the potentially life threatening condition people should be worried about not allergic reactions.

By the way, I agree the messaging could have been better in the allergic reactions. It's only potentially an issue for people who have a history of severe allergic reactions which is a very small subset of the population. No one else should be waiting at the pharmacy post jab. I know I didn't after any of mine, nor did we with my children or wife.

Fear of theoretical allergic reaction is not the reason millions of conservative tribes people are exposing themselves to excess COVID risk. Thanks for playing though.


I waited for 20 minutes on both my first and second, and my son did as well, per the clinic's orders. There was also a doctor on hand and two nurses administering each shot. I understand that all clinics don't operate like this but the threat of allergic reaction is real. I never said covid isn't dangerous. You suffer from a black or white us vs them mentality, and it is very unfortunate. I am not sure if it is political ideology or what, but it is sad you can't see other points of view.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/black-and-white-thinking#:~:text=Psychologists%20consider%20this%20thought%20pattern,in%20life%20at%20those%20extremes.
Psychologists consider this thought pattern to be a cognitive distortion because it keeps you from seeing life the way it really is: complex, uncertain, and constantly changing. Black and white thinking doesn't allow you to find the middle ground, which can be hard to sustain in life at those extremes.

Just want to add, you acknowledge that the messaging could have been better about the allergic reactions but you attack that one reason people gained mistrust in the OWS vaccines as dismissive of my argument in general. It is lame.
DiabloWags
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Unit2Sucks said:

More hysterics because I challenge your agenda. It's hilarious to describe something as "potentially" life threatening when hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated without any deaths. And yet thousands of unvaccinated die every day. COVID is the potentially life threatening condition people should be worried about not allergic reactions.

Fear of theoretical allergic reaction is not the reason millions of conservative tribes people are exposing themselves to excess COVID risk. Thanks for playing though.

Bingo!
oski003
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DiabloWags said:

Unit2Sucks said:

More hysterics because I challenge your agenda. It's hilarious to describe something as "potentially" life threatening when hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated without any deaths. And yet thousands of unvaccinated die every day. COVID is the potentially life threatening condition people should be worried about not allergic reactions.

Fear of theoretical allergic reaction is not the reason millions of conservative tribes people are exposing themselves to excess COVID risk. Thanks for playing though.

Bingo!



Per the study USucks cited, out of a sample of 60,000

One patient was admitted to intensive care, 9 (56%) received intramuscular epinephrine, and all recovered. Three employees, with prior anaphylaxis history, did not seek care.

Sounds potentially life threatening to me.

Bingo!
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

More hysterics because I challenge your agenda. It's hilarious to describe something as "potentially" life threatening when hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated without any deaths. And yet thousands of unvaccinated die every day. COVID is the potentially life threatening condition people should be worried about not allergic reactions.

By the way, I agree the messaging could have been better in the allergic reactions. It's only potentially an issue for people who have a history of severe allergic reactions which is a very small subset of the population. No one else should be waiting at the pharmacy post jab. I know I didn't after any of mine, nor did we with my children or wife.

Fear of theoretical allergic reaction is not the reason millions of conservative tribes people are exposing themselves to excess COVID risk. Thanks for playing though.


I waited for 20 minutes on both my first and second, and my son did as well, per the clinic's orders. There was also a doctor on hand and two nurses administering each shot. I understand that all clinics don't operate like this but the threat of allergic reaction is real. I never said covid isn't dangerous. You suffer from a black or white us vs them mentality, and it is very unfortunate. I am not sure if it is political ideology or what, but it is sad you can't see other points of view.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/black-and-white-thinking#:~:text=Psychologists%20consider%20this%20thought%20pattern,in%20life%20at%20those%20extremes.
Psychologists consider this thought pattern to be a cognitive distortion because it keeps you from seeing life the way it really is: complex, uncertain, and constantly changing. Black and white thinking doesn't allow you to find the middle ground, which can be hard to sustain in life at those extremes.

Just want to add, you acknowledge that the messaging could have been better about the allergic reactions but you attack that one reason people gained mistrust in the OWS vaccines as dismissive of my argument in general. It is lame.


Yea your argument is lame but your armchair psychological analysis is even lamer. If anything you are the one using Manichaean thinking to constantly criticize the safe and effective life saving jabs that could very well have been our path out of the worst of the pandemic. Instead we have what we have. Probably another 4K dead yesterday.

You are just making stuff up in order to continuously justify your bizarre agenda. Find me data that shows that vaccine hesitance comes from any of the things you mentioned. Do I disagree that a very small number of people had some of the concerns you point to? Absolutely not. Is it relevant to why millions of conservatives who take their marching orders from Tucker Carlson have chosen to take on excess COVID risk and why thousands of them are dying every day? Clearly not.

This isn't a black and white issue but pretending like it's not obvious what is going on makes you so inauthentic and out of touch.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

More hysterics because I challenge your agenda. It's hilarious to describe something as "potentially" life threatening when hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated without any deaths. And yet thousands of unvaccinated die every day. COVID is the potentially life threatening condition people should be worried about not allergic reactions.

By the way, I agree the messaging could have been better in the allergic reactions. It's only potentially an issue for people who have a history of severe allergic reactions which is a very small subset of the population. No one else should be waiting at the pharmacy post jab. I know I didn't after any of mine, nor did we with my children or wife.

Fear of theoretical allergic reaction is not the reason millions of conservative tribes people are exposing themselves to excess COVID risk. Thanks for playing though.


I waited for 20 minutes on both my first and second, and my son did as well, per the clinic's orders. There was also a doctor on hand and two nurses administering each shot. I understand that all clinics don't operate like this but the threat of allergic reaction is real. I never said covid isn't dangerous. You suffer from a black or white us vs them mentality, and it is very unfortunate. I am not sure if it is political ideology or what, but it is sad you can't see other points of view.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/black-and-white-thinking#:~:text=Psychologists%20consider%20this%20thought%20pattern,in%20life%20at%20those%20extremes.
Psychologists consider this thought pattern to be a cognitive distortion because it keeps you from seeing life the way it really is: complex, uncertain, and constantly changing. Black and white thinking doesn't allow you to find the middle ground, which can be hard to sustain in life at those extremes.

Just want to add, you acknowledge that the messaging could have been better about the allergic reactions but you attack that one reason people gained mistrust in the OWS vaccines as dismissive of my argument in general. It is lame.


Yea your argument is lame but your armchair psychological analysis is even lamer. If anything you are the one using Manichaean thinking to constantly criticize the safe and effective life saving jabs that could very well have been our path out of the worst of the pandemic. Instead we have what we have. Probably another 4K dead yesterday.

You are just making stuff up in order to continuously justify your bizarre agenda. Find me data that shows that vaccine hesitance comes from any of the things you mentioned. Do I disagree that a very small number of people had some of the concerns you point to? Absolutely not. Is it relevant to why millions of conservatives who take their marching orders from Tucker Carlson have chosen to take on excess COVID risk and why thousands of them are dying every day? Clearly not.

This isn't a black and white issue but pretending like it's not obvious what is going on makes you so inauthentic and out of touch.


You would dismiss any and all of these studies because they don't come from any of the news outlets charged to carry the current messaging to get mRNA vaccines into people's arms. Dr. Gottlieb, former head of FDA, and board member of Pfizer comes on TV and talks about how the USA will be at an endemic stage in January. That is the day the USA approved and bought 10 million treatments of pfizers covid treatment for a whopping 10.3 billion (the news calls him Scott and the USA has doubled the order so far $1000 per treatment!). If only more people would take mrna, we would be in the endemic stage!
This is the perfect messaging to kill competition. Pfizer has been in Biden's ear weekly.

https://www.outkick.com/pfizer-apparently-now-sponsors-everything-on-mainstream-media/

Current Chairman Reuters Foundation and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
Unit2Sucks
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There's that black and white thinking again. Despite the fact that mRNA has literally saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the US alone, if not more, you only have negative things to say. Maybe you should try to get some perspective and recognize how much good has been done. You sound exactly like someone who has become radicalized. And that's a big problem in this country and is a much bigger cause of the thousands of the suicides by COVID every day than the concerns you pretend people have around the safe and effective vaccines.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

There's that black and white thinking again. Despite the fact that mRNA has literally saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the US alone, if not more, you only have negative things to say. Maybe you should try to get some perspective and recognize how much good has been done. You sound exactly like someone who has become radicalized. And that's a big problem in this country and is a much bigger cause of the thousands of the suicides by COVID every day than the concerns you pretend people have around the safe and effective vaccines.


I have acknowledged several times that Pfizer was needed when they got EUA and are preferable to Moderna, which I got, and JnJ. I have never ever said that the USA should stop using Pfizer altogether. I questioned their use for kids 12 and under. I am disgusted that alternatives aren't available.

You suck at reading comprehension or purposely twist others' arguments to suit your agenda. Again, shame on you.
DiabloWags
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oski003 said:


Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.

The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.

oski003
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DiabloWags said:

oski003 said:


Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.

The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.




Edited.
Unit2Sucks
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DiabloWags said:

oski003 said:


Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.

The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.




He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.

Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.

oski003
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Just an update on the FDA trying to hide their Pfizer approval information and delay release of documents over a 75 year period (when everyone involved is already gone). Appellate court sided with petitioners and asked FDA to release the documents in a period consistent with the time frame it took to actually review, deliberate, and approve Pfizer.

Today, Pfizer wants to intervene on behalf of the FDA to bury the information from the public. They want to delay and redact. Yes, I am aware that some information does need redaction.

https://endpts.com/pfizer-wants-to-help-the-fda-with-its-new-court-mandated-4-5m-foia-release-on-the-companys-covid-19-vaccine-data/
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

oski003 said:


Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.

The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.




He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.

Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.




If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
Unit2Sucks
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

oski003 said:


Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.

The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.




He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.

Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.




If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
I don't think you defend Georgia, far from it. I think where you fail is in understanding how your rhetoric is contributing to the anti-vax ecosystem and causing other radicalized people to damage our public health by opposing all vaccines. It's dangerous.

I have no qualm with criticisms of companies that are behaving poorly and I have long been critical (on BI and in real life) of the revolving door between our government and private industries. Elizabeth Warren wanted to actually do something about it (and Trump laughably pretended to care) but the rest of the political class is uninterested. Where I take issue is with you conflating issues. We are fortunate that the mRNA vaccines worked out and they were wildly better than people had expected. Fauci said early in the pandemic that we might not be able to achieve something much better than 70% effective. What we have found is that the mRNA vaccines are capable of being far more effective than that. They were the key to reducing the death toll and an earlier return to normalcy. Because anti-vaxxers polluted the public discourse, tens of millions of Americans became radicalized and we are seeing the impact now, both in daily sacrifices to COVID and in pushes around the country to reduce or remove vaccine mandates that have been working for decades to keep our children safe. The fact that you can't connect the dots speaks to your lack of perspective.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

oski003 said:


Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.

The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.




He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.

Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.




If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
I don't think you defend Georgia, far from it. I think where you fail is in understanding how your rhetoric is contributing to the anti-vax ecosystem and causing other radicalized people to damage our public health by opposing all vaccines. It's dangerous.

I have no qualm with criticisms of companies that are behaving poorly and I have long been critical (on BI and in real life) of the revolving door between our government and private industries. Elizabeth Warren wanted to actually do something about it (and Trump laughably pretended to care) but the rest of the political class is uninterested. Where I take issue is with you conflating issues. We are fortunate that the mRNA vaccines worked out and they were wildly better than people had expected. Fauci said early in the pandemic that we might not be able to achieve something much better than 70% effective. What we have found is that the mRNA vaccines are capable of being far more effective than that. They were the key to reducing the death toll and an earlier return to normalcy. Because anti-vaxxers polluted the public discourse, tens of millions of Americans became radicalized and we are seeing the impact now, both in daily sacrifices to COVID and in pushes around the country to reduce or remove vaccine mandates that have been working for decades to keep our children safe. The fact that you can't connect the dots speaks to your lack of perspective.


Almost every vaccine that I have ever seen trial data for has prevented severe disease in the lungs. Once mRNA stopped preventing infection (that irrelevant number you still tout, surprisingly), they became just like the other vaccines, except they have extremely low tolerability and some dangerous side effects. Let's keep mRNA as an option. Fine. Give people some choice. Everyone knows that mRNA is a new tech and is not working like you say it is (except against severe disease). T cell based vaccines protect the lungs. Bring them on. No need to shock the body to elicit antibodies.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

oski003 said:


Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.

The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.




He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.

Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.




If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
I don't think you defend Georgia, far from it. I think where you fail is in understanding how your rhetoric is contributing to the anti-vax ecosystem and causing other radicalized people to damage our public health by opposing all vaccines. It's dangerous.

I have no qualm with criticisms of companies that are behaving poorly and I have long been critical (on BI and in real life) of the revolving door between our government and private industries. Elizabeth Warren wanted to actually do something about it (and Trump laughably pretended to care) but the rest of the political class is uninterested. Where I take issue is with you conflating issues. We are fortunate that the mRNA vaccines worked out and they were wildly better than people had expected. Fauci said early in the pandemic that we might not be able to achieve something much better than 70% effective. What we have found is that the mRNA vaccines are capable of being far more effective than that. They were the key to reducing the death toll and an earlier return to normalcy. Because anti-vaxxers polluted the public discourse, tens of millions of Americans became radicalized and we are seeing the impact now, both in daily sacrifices to COVID and in pushes around the country to reduce or remove vaccine mandates that have been working for decades to keep our children safe. The fact that you can't connect the dots speaks to your lack of perspective.


Almost every vaccine that I have ever seen trial data for has prevented severe disease in the lungs. Once mRNA stopped preventing infection (that irrelevant number you still tout, surprisingly), they became just like the other vaccines, except they have extremely low tolerability and some dangerous side effects. Let's keep mRNA as an option. Fine. Give people some choice. Everyone knows that mRNA is a new tech and is not working like you say it is (except against severe disease). T cell based vaccines protect the lungs. Bring them on. No need to shock the body to elicit antibodies.
More BS. In the real world data (billions of vaccine doses deployed), we know that the mRNA currently reduce severe disease and death significantly better than the rest. That may not always be the case with some of the newer vaccines coming on board like the one from the Hotez group. But let's not pretend that things aren't what they are. I'm certainly glad we weren't stuck with Sinovac or Sputnik.

Here's some real world data from Singapore:

Quote:

Of the 802 people who died from COVID-19 last year in the city-state, 555, or about 70%, weren't fully vaccinated, health minister Ong Ye Kung told parliament Monday, showing the life-saving impact of inoculation.

Singapore found 11 deaths per 100,000 among people who received Sinovac shots and 7.8 deaths among those with Sinopharm. This number fell to 6.2 deaths for those with the messenger RNA (mRNA) shot jointly developed by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE, and 1 fatality in those who were administered the vaccine from Moderna.

While Ong added some caveats to his comments the sample size was small and did not account for factors such as age and timing of vaccine doses the findings will likely add to concerns around the efficacy of Sinovac's and Sinopharm Group's inactivated virus shots, which have been widely used in the developing world. Initial laboratory studies have already suggested that Sinovac, even with a booster dose, is not effective against the highly transmissible omicron variant that's now dominating the world.

oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

oski003 said:


Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.

The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.




He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.

Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.




If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
I don't think you defend Georgia, far from it. I think where you fail is in understanding how your rhetoric is contributing to the anti-vax ecosystem and causing other radicalized people to damage our public health by opposing all vaccines. It's dangerous.

I have no qualm with criticisms of companies that are behaving poorly and I have long been critical (on BI and in real life) of the revolving door between our government and private industries. Elizabeth Warren wanted to actually do something about it (and Trump laughably pretended to care) but the rest of the political class is uninterested. Where I take issue is with you conflating issues. We are fortunate that the mRNA vaccines worked out and they were wildly better than people had expected. Fauci said early in the pandemic that we might not be able to achieve something much better than 70% effective. What we have found is that the mRNA vaccines are capable of being far more effective than that. They were the key to reducing the death toll and an earlier return to normalcy. Because anti-vaxxers polluted the public discourse, tens of millions of Americans became radicalized and we are seeing the impact now, both in daily sacrifices to COVID and in pushes around the country to reduce or remove vaccine mandates that have been working for decades to keep our children safe. The fact that you can't connect the dots speaks to your lack of perspective.


Almost every vaccine that I have ever seen trial data for has prevented severe disease in the lungs. Once mRNA stopped preventing infection (that irrelevant number you still tout, surprisingly), they became just like the other vaccines, except they have extremely low tolerability and some dangerous side effects. Let's keep mRNA as an option. Fine. Give people some choice. Everyone knows that mRNA is a new tech and is not working like you say it is (except against severe disease). T cell based vaccines protect the lungs. Bring them on. No need to shock the body to elicit antibodies.
More BS. In the real world data (billions of vaccine doses deployed), we know that the mRNA currently reduce severe disease and death significantly better than the rest. That may not always be the case with some of the newer vaccines coming on board like the one from the Hotez group. But let's not pretend that things aren't what they are. I'm certainly glad we weren't stuck with Sinovac or Sputnik.

Here's some real world data from Singapore:

Quote:

Of the 802 people who died from COVID-19 last year in the city-state, 555, or about 70%, weren't fully vaccinated, health minister Ong Ye Kung told parliament Monday, showing the life-saving impact of inoculation.

Singapore found 11 deaths per 100,000 among people who received Sinovac shots and 7.8 deaths among those with Sinopharm. This number fell to 6.2 deaths for those with the messenger RNA (mRNA) shot jointly developed by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE, and 1 fatality in those who were administered the vaccine from Moderna.

While Ong added some caveats to his comments the sample size was small and did not account for factors such as age and timing of vaccine doses the findings will likely add to concerns around the efficacy of Sinovac's and Sinopharm Group's inactivated virus shots, which have been widely used in the developing world. Initial laboratory studies have already suggested that Sinovac, even with a booster dose, is not effective against the highly transmissible omicron variant that's now dominating the world.




I don't have a subscription to the Japan Times so I can't read the entire article. I consider Pfizer a safer, less durable version of Moderna. Based on a Google excerpt it looks like a death rate of 11 per 100,000 sinovac, 7.8 sinopharm, and 6.2 Moderna. Moderna is more effective than Sinovac. I am not sure how much is matters now with Omicron, however, but I don't really push Sinovac anyway. Sinovac > unvaccinated, that is obvious. Moderna is a massive dose so it lasts longer. Pfizer is less than 1/3 the dose, and they have even cut that in half for kids for safety reasons.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?


The simple numbers every government should use to fight anti-vaccine misinformation


https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/ng-interactive/2022/jan/28/the-simple-numbers-every-government-should-use-to-fight-anti-vaccine-misinformation?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

oski003 said:


Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.

The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.




He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.

Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.




If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
I don't think you defend Georgia, far from it. I think where you fail is in understanding how your rhetoric is contributing to the anti-vax ecosystem and causing other radicalized people to damage our public health by opposing all vaccines. It's dangerous.

I have no qualm with criticisms of companies that are behaving poorly and I have long been critical (on BI and in real life) of the revolving door between our government and private industries. Elizabeth Warren wanted to actually do something about it (and Trump laughably pretended to care) but the rest of the political class is uninterested. Where I take issue is with you conflating issues. We are fortunate that the mRNA vaccines worked out and they were wildly better than people had expected. Fauci said early in the pandemic that we might not be able to achieve something much better than 70% effective. What we have found is that the mRNA vaccines are capable of being far more effective than that. They were the key to reducing the death toll and an earlier return to normalcy. Because anti-vaxxers polluted the public discourse, tens of millions of Americans became radicalized and we are seeing the impact now, both in daily sacrifices to COVID and in pushes around the country to reduce or remove vaccine mandates that have been working for decades to keep our children safe. The fact that you can't connect the dots speaks to your lack of perspective.


Almost every vaccine that I have ever seen trial data for has prevented severe disease in the lungs. Once mRNA stopped preventing infection (that irrelevant number you still tout, surprisingly), they became just like the other vaccines, except they have extremely low tolerability and some dangerous side effects. Let's keep mRNA as an option. Fine. Give people some choice. Everyone knows that mRNA is a new tech and is not working like you say it is (except against severe disease). T cell based vaccines protect the lungs. Bring them on. No need to shock the body to elicit antibodies.
More BS. In the real world data (billions of vaccine doses deployed), we know that the mRNA currently reduce severe disease and death significantly better than the rest. That may not always be the case with some of the newer vaccines coming on board like the one from the Hotez group. But let's not pretend that things aren't what they are. I'm certainly glad we weren't stuck with Sinovac or Sputnik.

Here's some real world data from Singapore:

Quote:

Of the 802 people who died from COVID-19 last year in the city-state, 555, or about 70%, weren't fully vaccinated, health minister Ong Ye Kung told parliament Monday, showing the life-saving impact of inoculation.

Singapore found 11 deaths per 100,000 among people who received Sinovac shots and 7.8 deaths among those with Sinopharm. This number fell to 6.2 deaths for those with the messenger RNA (mRNA) shot jointly developed by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE, and 1 fatality in those who were administered the vaccine from Moderna.

While Ong added some caveats to his comments the sample size was small and did not account for factors such as age and timing of vaccine doses the findings will likely add to concerns around the efficacy of Sinovac's and Sinopharm Group's inactivated virus shots, which have been widely used in the developing world. Initial laboratory studies have already suggested that Sinovac, even with a booster dose, is not effective against the highly transmissible omicron variant that's now dominating the world.




I don't have a subscription to the Japan Times so I can't read the entire article. I consider Pfizer a safer, less durable version of Moderna. Based on a Google excerpt it looks like a death rate of 11 per 100,000 sinovac, 7.8 sinopharm, and 6.2 Moderna. Moderna is more effective than Sinovac. I am not sure how much is matters now with Omicron, however, but I don't really push Sinovac anyway. Sinovac > unvaccinated, that is obvious. Moderna is a massive dose so it lasts longer. Pfizer is less than 1/3 the dose, and they have even cut that in half for kids for safety reasons.
I didn't realize Japan Times had a paywall, I tried to find an article without one and it worked fine for me. Strange. Your numbers pretty much match the quote I have - with one exception I think you said 6.2 for Moderna whereas JT says 6.2 for Pfizer and 1 for Moderna (which is a huge difference).

Back to the conversation about the threat of anti-vax to our public health, here's an article. Let's stop pretending that Kamala Harris' comments from 2020 or Biden's comments from September or later are the problem here. This is a fire that's been stoked by conservative leaders and people spreading misinformation. This is the dangerous rhetoric that you should be concerned about and it's implications for our future are obvious.




Quote:

When an ideological extreme faction with unpopular views emerges, it becomes a threat to the party that hosts it. At first, the party's incentive is to banish the extremists, lest their toxic ideas taint the party's brand with the broader electorate. But if the radical faction's growth is not arrested, the calculus changes, and barring the doors can no longer work. It forms a large enough part of the base that the party can't afford to alienate its members. The crank wing becomes too big to fail.

...
American opinion on vaccines has begun to separate itself from the rest of the democratic world. Twenty percent of Americans say they are unwilling to take a COVID vaccine, a rate matched globally only by Russia. Among fellow democracies, the next-highest rate of vaccine refusal is 7 percent, or one-third as high. That 20 percent is not uniformly Republican, but partisanship accounts for an increasing share of vaccine refusal. That fifth of the population is not close to a majority, but it is large enough to hold a respected place in one of the two parties.

One indication of the anti-vaxx movement's rise is through the explosive growth of anti-vaccination media personalities like Joe Rogan and Alex Berenson, who have forced established conservative pundits to co-opt their appeal. The Fox News prime-time lineup is creeping farther and farther right on vaccines. Sean Hannity recently declared, "Now that we know that whether you're vaccinated or boosted and had natural immunity you're still going to get it, why is he still calling it a 'pandemic of the vaccinated'?" Laura Ingraham claimed "vaccines aren't stopping the spread from people from getting sick, so when can we end this 'mandates work' charade?"

Tucker Carlson, going farther still, gave Berenson a platform to allege, without challenge, "The mRNA COVID vaccines need to be withdrawn from the market … They are a dangerous and ineffective product at this point."

Politicians have responded to this upsurge in anti-vaccine activism somewhat more cautiously. Senator Ron Johnson has held hearings that have cast doubt on vaccines (or, as the Federalist described them in a fawning story, "so-called vaccines.") Republicans in three states are moving to end school mandates for other, non-COVID vaccines that have been in place for decades.

Florida governor Ron DeSantis has held rallies with anti-vaxxers, appointed an anti-vaxxer as his state's top health official, and recently suspended a county health official for the crime of scolding his staff on email for having a vaccination rate under 50 percent, a truly harrowing figure for a health agency.


oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

oski003 said:


Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.

The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.




He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.

Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.




If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
I don't think you defend Georgia, far from it. I think where you fail is in understanding how your rhetoric is contributing to the anti-vax ecosystem and causing other radicalized people to damage our public health by opposing all vaccines. It's dangerous.

I have no qualm with criticisms of companies that are behaving poorly and I have long been critical (on BI and in real life) of the revolving door between our government and private industries. Elizabeth Warren wanted to actually do something about it (and Trump laughably pretended to care) but the rest of the political class is uninterested. Where I take issue is with you conflating issues. We are fortunate that the mRNA vaccines worked out and they were wildly better than people had expected. Fauci said early in the pandemic that we might not be able to achieve something much better than 70% effective. What we have found is that the mRNA vaccines are capable of being far more effective than that. They were the key to reducing the death toll and an earlier return to normalcy. Because anti-vaxxers polluted the public discourse, tens of millions of Americans became radicalized and we are seeing the impact now, both in daily sacrifices to COVID and in pushes around the country to reduce or remove vaccine mandates that have been working for decades to keep our children safe. The fact that you can't connect the dots speaks to your lack of perspective.


Almost every vaccine that I have ever seen trial data for has prevented severe disease in the lungs. Once mRNA stopped preventing infection (that irrelevant number you still tout, surprisingly), they became just like the other vaccines, except they have extremely low tolerability and some dangerous side effects. Let's keep mRNA as an option. Fine. Give people some choice. Everyone knows that mRNA is a new tech and is not working like you say it is (except against severe disease). T cell based vaccines protect the lungs. Bring them on. No need to shock the body to elicit antibodies.
More BS. In the real world data (billions of vaccine doses deployed), we know that the mRNA currently reduce severe disease and death significantly better than the rest. That may not always be the case with some of the newer vaccines coming on board like the one from the Hotez group. But let's not pretend that things aren't what they are. I'm certainly glad we weren't stuck with Sinovac or Sputnik.

Here's some real world data from Singapore:

Quote:

Of the 802 people who died from COVID-19 last year in the city-state, 555, or about 70%, weren't fully vaccinated, health minister Ong Ye Kung told parliament Monday, showing the life-saving impact of inoculation.

Singapore found 11 deaths per 100,000 among people who received Sinovac shots and 7.8 deaths among those with Sinopharm. This number fell to 6.2 deaths for those with the messenger RNA (mRNA) shot jointly developed by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE, and 1 fatality in those who were administered the vaccine from Moderna.

While Ong added some caveats to his comments the sample size was small and did not account for factors such as age and timing of vaccine doses the findings will likely add to concerns around the efficacy of Sinovac's and Sinopharm Group's inactivated virus shots, which have been widely used in the developing world. Initial laboratory studies have already suggested that Sinovac, even with a booster dose, is not effective against the highly transmissible omicron variant that's now dominating the world.




I don't have a subscription to the Japan Times so I can't read the entire article. I consider Pfizer a safer, less durable version of Moderna. Based on a Google excerpt it looks like a death rate of 11 per 100,000 sinovac, 7.8 sinopharm, and 6.2 Moderna. Moderna is more effective than Sinovac. I am not sure how much is matters now with Omicron, however, but I don't really push Sinovac anyway. Sinovac > unvaccinated, that is obvious. Moderna is a massive dose so it lasts longer. Pfizer is less than 1/3 the dose, and they have even cut that in half for kids for safety reasons.
I didn't realize Japan Times had a paywall, I tried to find an article without one and it worked fine for me. Strange. Your numbers pretty much match the quote I have - with one exception I think you said 6.2 for Moderna whereas JT says 6.2 for Pfizer and 1 for Moderna (which is a huge difference).

Back to the conversation about the threat of anti-vax to our public health, here's an article. Let's stop pretending that Kamala Harris' comments from 2020 or Biden's comments from September or later are the problem here. This is a fire that's been stoked by conservative leaders and people spreading misinformation. This is the dangerous rhetoric that you should be concerned about and it's implications for our future are obvious.




Quote:

When an ideological extreme faction with unpopular views emerges, it becomes a threat to the party that hosts it. At first, the party's incentive is to banish the extremists, lest their toxic ideas taint the party's brand with the broader electorate. But if the radical faction's growth is not arrested, the calculus changes, and barring the doors can no longer work. It forms a large enough part of the base that the party can't afford to alienate its members. The crank wing becomes too big to fail.

...
American opinion on vaccines has begun to separate itself from the rest of the democratic world. Twenty percent of Americans say they are unwilling to take a COVID vaccine, a rate matched globally only by Russia. Among fellow democracies, the next-highest rate of vaccine refusal is 7 percent, or one-third as high. That 20 percent is not uniformly Republican, but partisanship accounts for an increasing share of vaccine refusal. That fifth of the population is not close to a majority, but it is large enough to hold a respected place in one of the two parties.

One indication of the anti-vaxx movement's rise is through the explosive growth of anti-vaccination media personalities like Joe Rogan and Alex Berenson, who have forced established conservative pundits to co-opt their appeal. The Fox News prime-time lineup is creeping farther and farther right on vaccines. Sean Hannity recently declared, "Now that we know that whether you're vaccinated or boosted and had natural immunity you're still going to get it, why is he still calling it a 'pandemic of the vaccinated'?" Laura Ingraham claimed "vaccines aren't stopping the spread from people from getting sick, so when can we end this 'mandates work' charade?"

Tucker Carlson, going farther still, gave Berenson a platform to allege, without challenge, "The mRNA COVID vaccines need to be withdrawn from the market … They are a dangerous and ineffective product at this point."

Politicians have responded to this upsurge in anti-vaccine activism somewhat more cautiously. Senator Ron Johnson has held hearings that have cast doubt on vaccines (or, as the Federalist described them in a fawning story, "so-called vaccines.") Republicans in three states are moving to end school mandates for other, non-COVID vaccines that have been in place for decades.

Florida governor Ron DeSantis has held rallies with anti-vaxxers, appointed an anti-vaxxer as his state's top health official, and recently suspended a county health official for the crime of scolding his staff on email for having a vaccination rate under 50 percent, a truly harrowing figure for a health agency.





I don't pay much attention to Florida's hysterics. More vaccine options will dent their arguments (including Berenson). More vaccine options will also sway those people you think don't exist who are actually on the fence of getting vaccinated, those people who had one shot and had a bad reaction and won't get shot two, and those people that had two shots and bad reactions and won't get boosted.

Interesting that the tiny country of Singapore, 1/70 the size of the United States, has more vaccine options. I do understand that they are discouraging Sinovac, but they still allow people to get it.
dimitrig
How long do you want to ignore this user?

If the next pandemic involves a disease more deadly than COVID-19 I wonder if these anti-vaxxers will change their tune?

These people have a platform because it turns out that COVID-19, while deadly, isn't as deadly as we feared in 2020.

I bet that if half of everyone who has caught COVID-19 by now had died these people would be singing a different tune.

 
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