Quote:
The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America
Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.
Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.
Quote:
Anti-vaxxers making 'at least $2.5m' a year from publishing on Substack
Center for Countering Digital Hate research calculates that anti-vaccine figures could be making $12.5m from the online platform
A group of vaccine-sceptic writers are generating revenues of at least $2.5m (1.85m) a year from publishing newsletters for tens of thousands of followers on the online publishing platform Substack, according to new research.
Prominent figures in the anti-vaccine movement including Dr Joseph Mercola and Alex Berenson have large followings on Substack, which has more than 1 million paying subscribers who sign up for individual newsletters from an array of authors who include novelist Salman Rushdie, the writer musician Patti Smith and former Downing Street adviser Dominic Cummings.
Mercola, a US alternative medicine doctor and prolific producer of anti-vaccine content, and Alex Berenson, a journalist banned from Twitter last year after questioning the efficacy of Covid-19 vaccines, are among five vaccine sceptics on the platform who earn themselves and Substack a minimum of $2.5m a year from their newsletters. Under Substack's business model, writers keep about 90% of the subscription income, with the platform taking 10% and payment company Stripe charging the writers 3% of their take.
Research by the Center for Countering Digital Hate, a campaign group, showed that Mercola's newsletters made a minimum of $1m a year from charging subscribers an annual fee of $50, with Berenson making at least $1.2m from charging people $60. Three other vaccine sceptic newsletters, from tech entrepreneur Steven Kirsch, virologist Robert Malone and anonymous writer Eugyppius, generate about $300,000 between them.
Tragically, we've all become numb to Covid's death toll. Sometimes it takes a tangible comparison to shake us out of complacency.
— Bob Wachter (@Bob_Wachter) January 27, 2022
I had such a moment today, when Covid deaths in the U.S. hit 875,000. That, as it happens, is the population of my city, San Francisco. Staggering. pic.twitter.com/WjGNyy5fUE
Unit2Sucks said:
Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.Quote:
The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America
Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.
Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.
Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.
bearister said:
US donated over 400m Covid-19 vaccine doses to 112 countries, says White House
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/26/us-covid-vaccine-donation-400-million-white-house?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Unit2Sucks said:
Oh hey, 003 asked if there was a good place for his anti-mRNA musings. I think I found it. Rather than spamming us for free, you can charge people to be mislead by you and to sacrifice themselves on the alter of conservative tribalism.Quote:
Anti-vaxxers making 'at least $2.5m' a year from publishing on Substack
Center for Countering Digital Hate research calculates that anti-vaccine figures could be making $12.5m from the online platform
A group of vaccine-sceptic writers are generating revenues of at least $2.5m (1.85m) a year from publishing newsletters for tens of thousands of followers on the online publishing platform Substack, according to new research.
Prominent figures in the anti-vaccine movement including Dr Joseph Mercola and Alex Berenson have large followings on Substack, which has more than 1 million paying subscribers who sign up for individual newsletters from an array of authors who include novelist Salman Rushdie, the writer musician Patti Smith and former Downing Street adviser Dominic Cummings.
Mercola, a US alternative medicine doctor and prolific producer of anti-vaccine content, and Alex Berenson, a journalist banned from Twitter last year after questioning the efficacy of Covid-19 vaccines, are among five vaccine sceptics on the platform who earn themselves and Substack a minimum of $2.5m a year from their newsletters. Under Substack's business model, writers keep about 90% of the subscription income, with the platform taking 10% and payment company Stripe charging the writers 3% of their take.
Research by the Center for Countering Digital Hate, a campaign group, showed that Mercola's newsletters made a minimum of $1m a year from charging subscribers an annual fee of $50, with Berenson making at least $1.2m from charging people $60. Three other vaccine sceptic newsletters, from tech entrepreneur Steven Kirsch, virologist Robert Malone and anonymous writer Eugyppius, generate about $300,000 between them.
NYTimes says it's 3,895.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:
Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.Quote:
The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America
Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.
Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.
Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.
3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
Quote:
This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans
who have failed to get the shot.
And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable.
Third, if you wonder how all this adds up, here's the math: The vast majority of Americans are doing the right thing. Nearly three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one quarter has not gotten any. That's nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated. And in a country as large as ours, that's 25 percent minority. That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage and they are.
There have been a lot of things throughout this process that have undermined trust in vaccines, such as the 75 years argued by the FDA to hide the Pfizer approval documents. There has clearly been safety signals that have been bypassed/ignored with mrna and jnj approvals because of the emergencies of covid 19.Unit2Sucks said:NYTimes says it's 3,895.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:
Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.Quote:
The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America
Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.
Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.
Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.
3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
Blaming this on Biden is pathetic. Talk about false equivalences by bringing evangelical moralizing on abstinence into the equation is risible.
Here's what Biden said. It was in September, months after conservative tribalists had become entrenched in their death cult. This isn't on Biden, it's on them. It's on their leaders. It's on the people who continue to provide false and misleading information to them. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?Quote:
This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans
who have failed to get the shot.
And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable.
Third, if you wonder how all this adds up, here's the math: The vast majority of Americans are doing the right thing. Nearly three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one quarter has not gotten any. That's nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated. And in a country as large as ours, that's 25 percent minority. That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage and they are.
Please tell us when you think people became hardened against COVID vaccines.oski003 said:There have been a lot of things throughout this process that have undermined trust in vaccines, such as the 75 years argued by the FDA to hide the Pfizer approval documents. There has clearly been safety signals that have been bypassed/ignored with mrna and jnj approvals because of the emergencies of covid 19.Unit2Sucks said:NYTimes says it's 3,895.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:
Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.Quote:
The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America
Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.
Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.
Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.
3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
Blaming this on Biden is pathetic. Talk about false equivalences by bringing evangelical moralizing on abstinence into the equation is risible.
Here's what Biden said. It was in September, months after conservative tribalists had become entrenched in their death cult. This isn't on Biden, it's on them. It's on their leaders. It's on the people who continue to provide false and misleading information to them. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?Quote:
This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans
who have failed to get the shot.
And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable.
Third, if you wonder how all this adds up, here's the math: The vast majority of Americans are doing the right thing. Nearly three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one quarter has not gotten any. That's nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated. And in a country as large as ours, that's 25 percent minority. That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage and they are.
My figures are from worldometers.info by the way.
Unit2Sucks said:Please tell us when you think people became hardened against COVID vaccines.oski003 said:There have been a lot of things throughout this process that have undermined trust in vaccines, such as the 75 years argued by the FDA to hide the Pfizer approval documents. There has clearly been safety signals that have been bypassed/ignored with mrna and jnj approvals because of the emergencies of covid 19.Unit2Sucks said:NYTimes says it's 3,895.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:
Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.Quote:
The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America
Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.
Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.
Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.
3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
Blaming this on Biden is pathetic. Talk about false equivalences by bringing evangelical moralizing on abstinence into the equation is risible.
Here's what Biden said. It was in September, months after conservative tribalists had become entrenched in their death cult. This isn't on Biden, it's on them. It's on their leaders. It's on the people who continue to provide false and misleading information to them. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?Quote:
This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans
who have failed to get the shot.
And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable.
Third, if you wonder how all this adds up, here's the math: The vast majority of Americans are doing the right thing. Nearly three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one quarter has not gotten any. That's nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated. And in a country as large as ours, that's 25 percent minority. That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage and they are.
My figures are from worldometers.info by the way.
Then stop pretending like anything that happened after that date was responsible for the pre-existing antagonism. You continue to mention things that are well beyond that date. In a few months you will probably point to things that haven't even happened yet.
As for the numbers, not sure why there is a discrepancy between worldometers and NYT. I suppose it could be due to one or more states purposefully not publicizing their numbers - like Florida - in order to downplay the continuing toll of the pandemic. It now takes several months before Florida reports all of their deaths, and even then it's hard to trust that they aren't monkeying with the data. I check every once in a while and it looks like Florida's August death toll is still rising (their peak was below 400 for a while and now is at 426 from August 28). Another reason they do that is so that anti-public health people can continue to claim that Florida's numbers are improving when we really have no idea. Right now Florida is showing January 7 as it's deadliest day of the current wave, with 76 deaths. Anyone want to hazard a guess what we will see for January 7 in a few months? Or when the deaths will actually peak?
Patented 003 cocktail of misleading statements some of which are conspiratorial and many of which have had no impact.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:Please tell us when you think people became hardened against COVID vaccines.oski003 said:There have been a lot of things throughout this process that have undermined trust in vaccines, such as the 75 years argued by the FDA to hide the Pfizer approval documents. There has clearly been safety signals that have been bypassed/ignored with mrna and jnj approvals because of the emergencies of covid 19.Unit2Sucks said:NYTimes says it's 3,895.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:
Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.Quote:
The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America
Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.
Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.
Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.
3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
Blaming this on Biden is pathetic. Talk about false equivalences by bringing evangelical moralizing on abstinence into the equation is risible.
Here's what Biden said. It was in September, months after conservative tribalists had become entrenched in their death cult. This isn't on Biden, it's on them. It's on their leaders. It's on the people who continue to provide false and misleading information to them. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?Quote:
This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans
who have failed to get the shot.
And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable.
Third, if you wonder how all this adds up, here's the math: The vast majority of Americans are doing the right thing. Nearly three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one quarter has not gotten any. That's nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated. And in a country as large as ours, that's 25 percent minority. That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage and they are.
My figures are from worldometers.info by the way.
Then stop pretending like anything that happened after that date was responsible for the pre-existing antagonism. You continue to mention things that are well beyond that date. In a few months you will probably point to things that haven't even happened yet.
As for the numbers, not sure why there is a discrepancy between worldometers and NYT. I suppose it could be due to one or more states purposefully not publicizing their numbers - like Florida - in order to downplay the continuing toll of the pandemic. It now takes several months before Florida reports all of their deaths, and even then it's hard to trust that they aren't monkeying with the data. I check every once in a while and it looks like Florida's August death toll is still rising (their peak was below 400 for a while and now is at 426 from August 28). Another reason they do that is so that anti-public health people can continue to claim that Florida's numbers are improving when we really have no idea. Right now Florida is showing January 7 as it's deadliest day of the current wave, with 76 deaths. Anyone want to hazard a guess what we will see for January 7 in a few months? Or when the deaths will actually peak?
I don't have the unhealthy level of polarizing black and white, us vs them thinking that you do to have some specific date when the people you despise all became "anti-vaxxers; however, people may have become skeptical when the following things happened:
1) Democratic leaders attacked the ows vaccines as rushed without going through proper safety trials and said they would not take these rushed vaccines.
2) Trump wouldn't openly take a vaccine and downplayed covid.
3) It was uncovered that the head of ows was on the Moderna board and had stock in Moderna and Sanofi.
4) Pfizer and Moderna PR'd amazing efficacy results, almost acting as if a competition where one is like 94% and the other coming just after at 95%. Wall Street Journal ran an article about science by PR and how much money executives were making from stock sales.
5) After authorization, some Moderna and Pfizer vaccine recipients had severe and potentially deadly anaphylactic shock reactions to the PEG in the mRNA vaccines.
6) JnJ was authorized despite their plant never being inspected and tons of batches were discovered to be contaminated and mixed with ingredients from other vaccines.
JnJ had to halt their phase 3 as the investigators determined a deadly condition was vax caused yet JnJ said no and was allowed to continue. JnJ is halted in several countries for this deadly condition.
"The clotting disorder is called thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS), and it is rarein 17 million people who got J&J, 54 cases of TTS were reported, 36 of those people were cared for in an intensive care unit, and nine people died (which represents over 15% of cases).Two additional deaths also may be linked to the vaccine.
Based on these numbers, the risk appears to be greatest1 in 100,000in women ages 30 to 49. This updated CDC recommendation follows similar recommendations from other countries, including Canada and the United Kingdom.
The J&J vaccine is still available. The FDA, which has updated its fact sheet on the shot, still says that the risks of the virus are greater than the risks of the J&J vaccine. If you got the J&J shot, your risk of TTS would be expected to be low. In terms of timing, all of these cases were identified within two weeks of the person receiving the vaccine."
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots#:~:text=The%20clotting%20disorder%20is%20called,over%2015%25%20of%20cases).
JnJ also should failed their P3 efficacy standard against infection but were the only vaccine allowed to measure against moderate and severe illness. It is falsely marketed as a traditional one shot vaccine. It is neither.
7) myocarditis was confirmed as caused by mRNA vaccines in basically every developed country except the USA until the USA finally confirmed it after months of denial.
8) the 95% efficacy numbers get thrown out the window because the vaccines aren't durable and covid mutates, which coronaviruses are prone to do.
9) Pfizer and Moderna don't have any liability for the side effects of their vaccines.
Please note this is hardly an all inclusive list.
Unit2Sucks said:Patented 003 cocktail of misleading statements some of which are conspiratorial and many of which have had no impact.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:Please tell us when you think people became hardened against COVID vaccines.oski003 said:There have been a lot of things throughout this process that have undermined trust in vaccines, such as the 75 years argued by the FDA to hide the Pfizer approval documents. There has clearly been safety signals that have been bypassed/ignored with mrna and jnj approvals because of the emergencies of covid 19.Unit2Sucks said:NYTimes says it's 3,895.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:
Great article in the Atlantic about the anti-vax death cult.Quote:
The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America
Since last summer, the conservative campaign against vaccination has claimed thousands of lives for no ethically justifiable purpose.
Whether they were convinced that COVID wasn't real; that if it was, God would keep them alive or, alternatively, use COVID to kill them on schedule; that vaccines are "Satan's syrup" or make you sterile or worse; that in any case vaccination mandates are, like gun regulation, a tyrannical plot by liberals and globalists; or that the Omicron variant was introduced to deflect public attention from Ghislaine Maxwell's trial (and, by the way, omicron and delta combined are an anagram for media control)whatever their reasons, millions of Americans have been persuaded by the right to promote death, and potentially to sacrifice themselves and others, ostensibly for the sake of personal liberty but definitely as a means of increasing their tribal solidarity and inclination to vote Republican.
Almost 4k Americans sacrificed themselves yesterday alone as a result of choosing to remain unvaccinated. Imagine if we could have prevented 911 with just a few jabs. Imagine that happening on a daily basis.
3143, which is a shame. I wish more people would get vaxxed and more would take covid seriously. However, I do believe Biden declaring covid a disease of the unvaccinated the same way right wingers have a hard line of abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Connect with that 30% instead of going to war with them. You could learn that too.
Blaming this on Biden is pathetic. Talk about false equivalences by bringing evangelical moralizing on abstinence into the equation is risible.
Here's what Biden said. It was in September, months after conservative tribalists had become entrenched in their death cult. This isn't on Biden, it's on them. It's on their leaders. It's on the people who continue to provide false and misleading information to them. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?Quote:
This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans
who have failed to get the shot.
And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable.
Third, if you wonder how all this adds up, here's the math: The vast majority of Americans are doing the right thing. Nearly three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot, but one quarter has not gotten any. That's nearly 80 million Americans not vaccinated. And in a country as large as ours, that's 25 percent minority. That 25 percent can cause a lot of damage and they are.
My figures are from worldometers.info by the way.
Then stop pretending like anything that happened after that date was responsible for the pre-existing antagonism. You continue to mention things that are well beyond that date. In a few months you will probably point to things that haven't even happened yet.
As for the numbers, not sure why there is a discrepancy between worldometers and NYT. I suppose it could be due to one or more states purposefully not publicizing their numbers - like Florida - in order to downplay the continuing toll of the pandemic. It now takes several months before Florida reports all of their deaths, and even then it's hard to trust that they aren't monkeying with the data. I check every once in a while and it looks like Florida's August death toll is still rising (their peak was below 400 for a while and now is at 426 from August 28). Another reason they do that is so that anti-public health people can continue to claim that Florida's numbers are improving when we really have no idea. Right now Florida is showing January 7 as it's deadliest day of the current wave, with 76 deaths. Anyone want to hazard a guess what we will see for January 7 in a few months? Or when the deaths will actually peak?
I don't have the unhealthy level of polarizing black and white, us vs them thinking that you do to have some specific date when the people you despise all became "anti-vaxxers; however, people may have become skeptical when the following things happened:
1) Democratic leaders attacked the ows vaccines as rushed without going through proper safety trials and said they would not take these rushed vaccines.
2) Trump wouldn't openly take a vaccine and downplayed covid.
3) It was uncovered that the head of ows was on the Moderna board and had stock in Moderna and Sanofi.
4) Pfizer and Moderna PR'd amazing efficacy results, almost acting as if a competition where one is like 94% and the other coming just after at 95%. Wall Street Journal ran an article about science by PR and how much money executives were making from stock sales.
5) After authorization, some Moderna and Pfizer vaccine recipients had severe and potentially deadly anaphylactic shock reactions to the PEG in the mRNA vaccines.
6) JnJ was authorized despite their plant never being inspected and tons of batches were discovered to be contaminated and mixed with ingredients from other vaccines.
JnJ had to halt their phase 3 as the investigators determined a deadly condition was vax caused yet JnJ said no and was allowed to continue. JnJ is halted in several countries for this deadly condition.
"The clotting disorder is called thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS), and it is rarein 17 million people who got J&J, 54 cases of TTS were reported, 36 of those people were cared for in an intensive care unit, and nine people died (which represents over 15% of cases).Two additional deaths also may be linked to the vaccine.
Based on these numbers, the risk appears to be greatest1 in 100,000in women ages 30 to 49. This updated CDC recommendation follows similar recommendations from other countries, including Canada and the United Kingdom.
The J&J vaccine is still available. The FDA, which has updated its fact sheet on the shot, still says that the risks of the virus are greater than the risks of the J&J vaccine. If you got the J&J shot, your risk of TTS would be expected to be low. In terms of timing, all of these cases were identified within two weeks of the person receiving the vaccine."
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots#:~:text=The%20clotting%20disorder%20is%20called,over%2015%25%20of%20cases).
JnJ also should failed their P3 efficacy standard against infection but were the only vaccine allowed to measure against moderate and severe illness. It is falsely marketed as a traditional one shot vaccine. It is neither.
7) myocarditis was confirmed as caused by mRNA vaccines in basically every developed country except the USA until the USA finally confirmed it after months of denial.
8) the 95% efficacy numbers get thrown out the window because the vaccines aren't durable and covid mutates, which coronaviruses are prone to do.
9) Pfizer and Moderna don't have any liability for the side effects of their vaccines.
Please note this is hardly an all inclusive list.
Few points I would make. First, lol to "potentially deadly" allergic reactions. Hundreds of million Americans have had the mRNA jabs. Who died? According to this study, it's pretty typical risk for allergic people compared to other health care exposures.
Second, let's dispense with pretending democratic skepticism it so blame for the anti vax crusade. The best predictor of vaccine status is partisan lean. Republicans overwhelmingly make up the unvaxxed. In what world would republicans listen to democratic leaders only about this one thing but democrats would ignore it entirely? It's such an obvious BS claim, that only a person with an agenda would make it. You don't believe anything democratic leaders say about the vaccines except their dated criticism? Spare us the hysterics.
As for efficacy, the vaccines are still remarkably effective against severe disease and death. According to recent data, something like 13x against infection and 68x against death. Everyone in 2020 would have loved those results. Almost 4k unvaccinated Americans died yesterday alone and you think the problem is because manufacturers claimed high efficacy numbers? Do you hear yourself? It's preposterous.
I will finally note that all of these things were well known by spring 2020, just after Biden took office and we'll before his September speech that you blamed for anti vax sentiment or his December Omicron statement that you probably would also point to. This isn't on Biden this is on the unvaccinated and the people they listen to. We know a lot about the unvaccinated and who they listen to. It's people like you, conservative leaders (including morons like Ron Johnson), media figures like Tucker Carlson, and idiot bloggers like Joe Rogan. Don't point the finger at Biden or Kamala Harris and expect anyone to consider you credible here.
Unit2Sucks said:
More hysterics because I challenge your agenda. It's hilarious to describe something as "potentially" life threatening when hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated without any deaths. And yet thousands of unvaccinated die every day. COVID is the potentially life threatening condition people should be worried about not allergic reactions.
By the way, I agree the messaging could have been better in the allergic reactions. It's only potentially an issue for people who have a history of severe allergic reactions which is a very small subset of the population. No one else should be waiting at the pharmacy post jab. I know I didn't after any of mine, nor did we with my children or wife.
Fear of theoretical allergic reaction is not the reason millions of conservative tribes people are exposing themselves to excess COVID risk. Thanks for playing though.
Unit2Sucks said:
More hysterics because I challenge your agenda. It's hilarious to describe something as "potentially" life threatening when hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated without any deaths. And yet thousands of unvaccinated die every day. COVID is the potentially life threatening condition people should be worried about not allergic reactions.
Fear of theoretical allergic reaction is not the reason millions of conservative tribes people are exposing themselves to excess COVID risk. Thanks for playing though.
DiabloWags said:Unit2Sucks said:
More hysterics because I challenge your agenda. It's hilarious to describe something as "potentially" life threatening when hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated without any deaths. And yet thousands of unvaccinated die every day. COVID is the potentially life threatening condition people should be worried about not allergic reactions.
Fear of theoretical allergic reaction is not the reason millions of conservative tribes people are exposing themselves to excess COVID risk. Thanks for playing though.
Bingo!
oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:
More hysterics because I challenge your agenda. It's hilarious to describe something as "potentially" life threatening when hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated without any deaths. And yet thousands of unvaccinated die every day. COVID is the potentially life threatening condition people should be worried about not allergic reactions.
By the way, I agree the messaging could have been better in the allergic reactions. It's only potentially an issue for people who have a history of severe allergic reactions which is a very small subset of the population. No one else should be waiting at the pharmacy post jab. I know I didn't after any of mine, nor did we with my children or wife.
Fear of theoretical allergic reaction is not the reason millions of conservative tribes people are exposing themselves to excess COVID risk. Thanks for playing though.
I waited for 20 minutes on both my first and second, and my son did as well, per the clinic's orders. There was also a doctor on hand and two nurses administering each shot. I understand that all clinics don't operate like this but the threat of allergic reaction is real. I never said covid isn't dangerous. You suffer from a black or white us vs them mentality, and it is very unfortunate. I am not sure if it is political ideology or what, but it is sad you can't see other points of view.
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/black-and-white-thinking#:~:text=Psychologists%20consider%20this%20thought%20pattern,in%20life%20at%20those%20extremes.
Psychologists consider this thought pattern to be a cognitive distortion because it keeps you from seeing life the way it really is: complex, uncertain, and constantly changing. Black and white thinking doesn't allow you to find the middle ground, which can be hard to sustain in life at those extremes.
Just want to add, you acknowledge that the messaging could have been better about the allergic reactions but you attack that one reason people gained mistrust in the OWS vaccines as dismissive of my argument in general. It is lame.
Unit2Sucks said:oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:
More hysterics because I challenge your agenda. It's hilarious to describe something as "potentially" life threatening when hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated without any deaths. And yet thousands of unvaccinated die every day. COVID is the potentially life threatening condition people should be worried about not allergic reactions.
By the way, I agree the messaging could have been better in the allergic reactions. It's only potentially an issue for people who have a history of severe allergic reactions which is a very small subset of the population. No one else should be waiting at the pharmacy post jab. I know I didn't after any of mine, nor did we with my children or wife.
Fear of theoretical allergic reaction is not the reason millions of conservative tribes people are exposing themselves to excess COVID risk. Thanks for playing though.
I waited for 20 minutes on both my first and second, and my son did as well, per the clinic's orders. There was also a doctor on hand and two nurses administering each shot. I understand that all clinics don't operate like this but the threat of allergic reaction is real. I never said covid isn't dangerous. You suffer from a black or white us vs them mentality, and it is very unfortunate. I am not sure if it is political ideology or what, but it is sad you can't see other points of view.
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/black-and-white-thinking#:~:text=Psychologists%20consider%20this%20thought%20pattern,in%20life%20at%20those%20extremes.
Psychologists consider this thought pattern to be a cognitive distortion because it keeps you from seeing life the way it really is: complex, uncertain, and constantly changing. Black and white thinking doesn't allow you to find the middle ground, which can be hard to sustain in life at those extremes.
Just want to add, you acknowledge that the messaging could have been better about the allergic reactions but you attack that one reason people gained mistrust in the OWS vaccines as dismissive of my argument in general. It is lame.
Yea your argument is lame but your armchair psychological analysis is even lamer. If anything you are the one using Manichaean thinking to constantly criticize the safe and effective life saving jabs that could very well have been our path out of the worst of the pandemic. Instead we have what we have. Probably another 4K dead yesterday.
You are just making stuff up in order to continuously justify your bizarre agenda. Find me data that shows that vaccine hesitance comes from any of the things you mentioned. Do I disagree that a very small number of people had some of the concerns you point to? Absolutely not. Is it relevant to why millions of conservatives who take their marching orders from Tucker Carlson have chosen to take on excess COVID risk and why thousands of them are dying every day? Clearly not.
This isn't a black and white issue but pretending like it's not obvious what is going on makes you so inauthentic and out of touch.
Unit2Sucks said:
There's that black and white thinking again. Despite the fact that mRNA has literally saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the US alone, if not more, you only have negative things to say. Maybe you should try to get some perspective and recognize how much good has been done. You sound exactly like someone who has become radicalized. And that's a big problem in this country and is a much bigger cause of the thousands of the suicides by COVID every day than the concerns you pretend people have around the safe and effective vaccines.
Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.oski003 said:
Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
DiabloWags said:Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.oski003 said:
Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.
DiabloWags said:Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.oski003 said:
Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.
Legislation has been introduced in the Georgia Senate with to ban any public entity from requiring *any* vaccination as a precondition for services or facility access, wiping out the preexisting standards. #gapol https://t.co/uKg5Y85T71 pic.twitter.com/TsyljBC10x
— Anthony Michael Kreis (@AnthonyMKreis) January 24, 2022
Unit2Sucks said:DiabloWags said:Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.oski003 said:
Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.
He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.
Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.Legislation has been introduced in the Georgia Senate with to ban any public entity from requiring *any* vaccination as a precondition for services or facility access, wiping out the preexisting standards. #gapol https://t.co/uKg5Y85T71 pic.twitter.com/TsyljBC10x
— Anthony Michael Kreis (@AnthonyMKreis) January 24, 2022
I don't think you defend Georgia, far from it. I think where you fail is in understanding how your rhetoric is contributing to the anti-vax ecosystem and causing other radicalized people to damage our public health by opposing all vaccines. It's dangerous.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:DiabloWags said:Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.oski003 said:
Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.
He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.
Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.Legislation has been introduced in the Georgia Senate with to ban any public entity from requiring *any* vaccination as a precondition for services or facility access, wiping out the preexisting standards. #gapol https://t.co/uKg5Y85T71 pic.twitter.com/TsyljBC10x
— Anthony Michael Kreis (@AnthonyMKreis) January 24, 2022
If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
Unit2Sucks said:I don't think you defend Georgia, far from it. I think where you fail is in understanding how your rhetoric is contributing to the anti-vax ecosystem and causing other radicalized people to damage our public health by opposing all vaccines. It's dangerous.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:DiabloWags said:Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.oski003 said:
Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.
He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.
Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.Legislation has been introduced in the Georgia Senate with to ban any public entity from requiring *any* vaccination as a precondition for services or facility access, wiping out the preexisting standards. #gapol https://t.co/uKg5Y85T71 pic.twitter.com/TsyljBC10x
— Anthony Michael Kreis (@AnthonyMKreis) January 24, 2022
If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
I have no qualm with criticisms of companies that are behaving poorly and I have long been critical (on BI and in real life) of the revolving door between our government and private industries. Elizabeth Warren wanted to actually do something about it (and Trump laughably pretended to care) but the rest of the political class is uninterested. Where I take issue is with you conflating issues. We are fortunate that the mRNA vaccines worked out and they were wildly better than people had expected. Fauci said early in the pandemic that we might not be able to achieve something much better than 70% effective. What we have found is that the mRNA vaccines are capable of being far more effective than that. They were the key to reducing the death toll and an earlier return to normalcy. Because anti-vaxxers polluted the public discourse, tens of millions of Americans became radicalized and we are seeing the impact now, both in daily sacrifices to COVID and in pushes around the country to reduce or remove vaccine mandates that have been working for decades to keep our children safe. The fact that you can't connect the dots speaks to your lack of perspective.
More BS. In the real world data (billions of vaccine doses deployed), we know that the mRNA currently reduce severe disease and death significantly better than the rest. That may not always be the case with some of the newer vaccines coming on board like the one from the Hotez group. But let's not pretend that things aren't what they are. I'm certainly glad we weren't stuck with Sinovac or Sputnik.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:I don't think you defend Georgia, far from it. I think where you fail is in understanding how your rhetoric is contributing to the anti-vax ecosystem and causing other radicalized people to damage our public health by opposing all vaccines. It's dangerous.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:DiabloWags said:Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.oski003 said:
Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.
He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.
Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.Legislation has been introduced in the Georgia Senate with to ban any public entity from requiring *any* vaccination as a precondition for services or facility access, wiping out the preexisting standards. #gapol https://t.co/uKg5Y85T71 pic.twitter.com/TsyljBC10x
— Anthony Michael Kreis (@AnthonyMKreis) January 24, 2022
If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
I have no qualm with criticisms of companies that are behaving poorly and I have long been critical (on BI and in real life) of the revolving door between our government and private industries. Elizabeth Warren wanted to actually do something about it (and Trump laughably pretended to care) but the rest of the political class is uninterested. Where I take issue is with you conflating issues. We are fortunate that the mRNA vaccines worked out and they were wildly better than people had expected. Fauci said early in the pandemic that we might not be able to achieve something much better than 70% effective. What we have found is that the mRNA vaccines are capable of being far more effective than that. They were the key to reducing the death toll and an earlier return to normalcy. Because anti-vaxxers polluted the public discourse, tens of millions of Americans became radicalized and we are seeing the impact now, both in daily sacrifices to COVID and in pushes around the country to reduce or remove vaccine mandates that have been working for decades to keep our children safe. The fact that you can't connect the dots speaks to your lack of perspective.
Almost every vaccine that I have ever seen trial data for has prevented severe disease in the lungs. Once mRNA stopped preventing infection (that irrelevant number you still tout, surprisingly), they became just like the other vaccines, except they have extremely low tolerability and some dangerous side effects. Let's keep mRNA as an option. Fine. Give people some choice. Everyone knows that mRNA is a new tech and is not working like you say it is (except against severe disease). T cell based vaccines protect the lungs. Bring them on. No need to shock the body to elicit antibodies.
Quote:
Of the 802 people who died from COVID-19 last year in the city-state, 555, or about 70%, weren't fully vaccinated, health minister Ong Ye Kung told parliament Monday, showing the life-saving impact of inoculation.
Singapore found 11 deaths per 100,000 among people who received Sinovac shots and 7.8 deaths among those with Sinopharm. This number fell to 6.2 deaths for those with the messenger RNA (mRNA) shot jointly developed by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE, and 1 fatality in those who were administered the vaccine from Moderna.
While Ong added some caveats to his comments the sample size was small and did not account for factors such as age and timing of vaccine doses the findings will likely add to concerns around the efficacy of Sinovac's and Sinopharm Group's inactivated virus shots, which have been widely used in the developing world. Initial laboratory studies have already suggested that Sinovac, even with a booster dose, is not effective against the highly transmissible omicron variant that's now dominating the world.
Unit2Sucks said:More BS. In the real world data (billions of vaccine doses deployed), we know that the mRNA currently reduce severe disease and death significantly better than the rest. That may not always be the case with some of the newer vaccines coming on board like the one from the Hotez group. But let's not pretend that things aren't what they are. I'm certainly glad we weren't stuck with Sinovac or Sputnik.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:I don't think you defend Georgia, far from it. I think where you fail is in understanding how your rhetoric is contributing to the anti-vax ecosystem and causing other radicalized people to damage our public health by opposing all vaccines. It's dangerous.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:DiabloWags said:Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.oski003 said:
Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.
He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.
Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.Legislation has been introduced in the Georgia Senate with to ban any public entity from requiring *any* vaccination as a precondition for services or facility access, wiping out the preexisting standards. #gapol https://t.co/uKg5Y85T71 pic.twitter.com/TsyljBC10x
— Anthony Michael Kreis (@AnthonyMKreis) January 24, 2022
If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
I have no qualm with criticisms of companies that are behaving poorly and I have long been critical (on BI and in real life) of the revolving door between our government and private industries. Elizabeth Warren wanted to actually do something about it (and Trump laughably pretended to care) but the rest of the political class is uninterested. Where I take issue is with you conflating issues. We are fortunate that the mRNA vaccines worked out and they were wildly better than people had expected. Fauci said early in the pandemic that we might not be able to achieve something much better than 70% effective. What we have found is that the mRNA vaccines are capable of being far more effective than that. They were the key to reducing the death toll and an earlier return to normalcy. Because anti-vaxxers polluted the public discourse, tens of millions of Americans became radicalized and we are seeing the impact now, both in daily sacrifices to COVID and in pushes around the country to reduce or remove vaccine mandates that have been working for decades to keep our children safe. The fact that you can't connect the dots speaks to your lack of perspective.
Almost every vaccine that I have ever seen trial data for has prevented severe disease in the lungs. Once mRNA stopped preventing infection (that irrelevant number you still tout, surprisingly), they became just like the other vaccines, except they have extremely low tolerability and some dangerous side effects. Let's keep mRNA as an option. Fine. Give people some choice. Everyone knows that mRNA is a new tech and is not working like you say it is (except against severe disease). T cell based vaccines protect the lungs. Bring them on. No need to shock the body to elicit antibodies.
Here's some real world data from Singapore:Quote:
Of the 802 people who died from COVID-19 last year in the city-state, 555, or about 70%, weren't fully vaccinated, health minister Ong Ye Kung told parliament Monday, showing the life-saving impact of inoculation.
Singapore found 11 deaths per 100,000 among people who received Sinovac shots and 7.8 deaths among those with Sinopharm. This number fell to 6.2 deaths for those with the messenger RNA (mRNA) shot jointly developed by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE, and 1 fatality in those who were administered the vaccine from Moderna.
While Ong added some caveats to his comments the sample size was small and did not account for factors such as age and timing of vaccine doses the findings will likely add to concerns around the efficacy of Sinovac's and Sinopharm Group's inactivated virus shots, which have been widely used in the developing world. Initial laboratory studies have already suggested that Sinovac, even with a booster dose, is not effective against the highly transmissible omicron variant that's now dominating the world.
I didn't realize Japan Times had a paywall, I tried to find an article without one and it worked fine for me. Strange. Your numbers pretty much match the quote I have - with one exception I think you said 6.2 for Moderna whereas JT says 6.2 for Pfizer and 1 for Moderna (which is a huge difference).oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:More BS. In the real world data (billions of vaccine doses deployed), we know that the mRNA currently reduce severe disease and death significantly better than the rest. That may not always be the case with some of the newer vaccines coming on board like the one from the Hotez group. But let's not pretend that things aren't what they are. I'm certainly glad we weren't stuck with Sinovac or Sputnik.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:I don't think you defend Georgia, far from it. I think where you fail is in understanding how your rhetoric is contributing to the anti-vax ecosystem and causing other radicalized people to damage our public health by opposing all vaccines. It's dangerous.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:DiabloWags said:Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.oski003 said:
Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.
He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.
Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.Legislation has been introduced in the Georgia Senate with to ban any public entity from requiring *any* vaccination as a precondition for services or facility access, wiping out the preexisting standards. #gapol https://t.co/uKg5Y85T71 pic.twitter.com/TsyljBC10x
— Anthony Michael Kreis (@AnthonyMKreis) January 24, 2022
If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
I have no qualm with criticisms of companies that are behaving poorly and I have long been critical (on BI and in real life) of the revolving door between our government and private industries. Elizabeth Warren wanted to actually do something about it (and Trump laughably pretended to care) but the rest of the political class is uninterested. Where I take issue is with you conflating issues. We are fortunate that the mRNA vaccines worked out and they were wildly better than people had expected. Fauci said early in the pandemic that we might not be able to achieve something much better than 70% effective. What we have found is that the mRNA vaccines are capable of being far more effective than that. They were the key to reducing the death toll and an earlier return to normalcy. Because anti-vaxxers polluted the public discourse, tens of millions of Americans became radicalized and we are seeing the impact now, both in daily sacrifices to COVID and in pushes around the country to reduce or remove vaccine mandates that have been working for decades to keep our children safe. The fact that you can't connect the dots speaks to your lack of perspective.
Almost every vaccine that I have ever seen trial data for has prevented severe disease in the lungs. Once mRNA stopped preventing infection (that irrelevant number you still tout, surprisingly), they became just like the other vaccines, except they have extremely low tolerability and some dangerous side effects. Let's keep mRNA as an option. Fine. Give people some choice. Everyone knows that mRNA is a new tech and is not working like you say it is (except against severe disease). T cell based vaccines protect the lungs. Bring them on. No need to shock the body to elicit antibodies.
Here's some real world data from Singapore:Quote:
Of the 802 people who died from COVID-19 last year in the city-state, 555, or about 70%, weren't fully vaccinated, health minister Ong Ye Kung told parliament Monday, showing the life-saving impact of inoculation.
Singapore found 11 deaths per 100,000 among people who received Sinovac shots and 7.8 deaths among those with Sinopharm. This number fell to 6.2 deaths for those with the messenger RNA (mRNA) shot jointly developed by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE, and 1 fatality in those who were administered the vaccine from Moderna.
While Ong added some caveats to his comments the sample size was small and did not account for factors such as age and timing of vaccine doses the findings will likely add to concerns around the efficacy of Sinovac's and Sinopharm Group's inactivated virus shots, which have been widely used in the developing world. Initial laboratory studies have already suggested that Sinovac, even with a booster dose, is not effective against the highly transmissible omicron variant that's now dominating the world.
I don't have a subscription to the Japan Times so I can't read the entire article. I consider Pfizer a safer, less durable version of Moderna. Based on a Google excerpt it looks like a death rate of 11 per 100,000 sinovac, 7.8 sinopharm, and 6.2 Moderna. Moderna is more effective than Sinovac. I am not sure how much is matters now with Omicron, however, but I don't really push Sinovac anyway. Sinovac > unvaccinated, that is obvious. Moderna is a massive dose so it lasts longer. Pfizer is less than 1/3 the dose, and they have even cut that in half for kids for safety reasons.
The choice before the Republican Party is not whether to hand over power to kooks, but which kooks should rule. @jonathanchait writes https://t.co/fnt2MYNOWS
— Intelligencer (@intelligencer) January 28, 2022
Quote:
When an ideological extreme faction with unpopular views emerges, it becomes a threat to the party that hosts it. At first, the party's incentive is to banish the extremists, lest their toxic ideas taint the party's brand with the broader electorate. But if the radical faction's growth is not arrested, the calculus changes, and barring the doors can no longer work. It forms a large enough part of the base that the party can't afford to alienate its members. The crank wing becomes too big to fail.
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American opinion on vaccines has begun to separate itself from the rest of the democratic world. Twenty percent of Americans say they are unwilling to take a COVID vaccine, a rate matched globally only by Russia. Among fellow democracies, the next-highest rate of vaccine refusal is 7 percent, or one-third as high. That 20 percent is not uniformly Republican, but partisanship accounts for an increasing share of vaccine refusal. That fifth of the population is not close to a majority, but it is large enough to hold a respected place in one of the two parties.
One indication of the anti-vaxx movement's rise is through the explosive growth of anti-vaccination media personalities like Joe Rogan and Alex Berenson, who have forced established conservative pundits to co-opt their appeal. The Fox News prime-time lineup is creeping farther and farther right on vaccines. Sean Hannity recently declared, "Now that we know that whether you're vaccinated or boosted and had natural immunity you're still going to get it, why is he still calling it a 'pandemic of the vaccinated'?" Laura Ingraham claimed "vaccines aren't stopping the spread from people from getting sick, so when can we end this 'mandates work' charade?"
Tucker Carlson, going farther still, gave Berenson a platform to allege, without challenge, "The mRNA COVID vaccines need to be withdrawn from the market … They are a dangerous and ineffective product at this point."
Politicians have responded to this upsurge in anti-vaccine activism somewhat more cautiously. Senator Ron Johnson has held hearings that have cast doubt on vaccines (or, as the Federalist described them in a fawning story, "so-called vaccines.") Republicans in three states are moving to end school mandates for other, non-COVID vaccines that have been in place for decades.
Florida governor Ron DeSantis has held rallies with anti-vaxxers, appointed an anti-vaxxer as his state's top health official, and recently suspended a county health official for the crime of scolding his staff on email for having a vaccination rate under 50 percent, a truly harrowing figure for a health agency.
Unit2Sucks said:I didn't realize Japan Times had a paywall, I tried to find an article without one and it worked fine for me. Strange. Your numbers pretty much match the quote I have - with one exception I think you said 6.2 for Moderna whereas JT says 6.2 for Pfizer and 1 for Moderna (which is a huge difference).oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:More BS. In the real world data (billions of vaccine doses deployed), we know that the mRNA currently reduce severe disease and death significantly better than the rest. That may not always be the case with some of the newer vaccines coming on board like the one from the Hotez group. But let's not pretend that things aren't what they are. I'm certainly glad we weren't stuck with Sinovac or Sputnik.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:I don't think you defend Georgia, far from it. I think where you fail is in understanding how your rhetoric is contributing to the anti-vax ecosystem and causing other radicalized people to damage our public health by opposing all vaccines. It's dangerous.oski003 said:Unit2Sucks said:DiabloWags said:Sadly, your bias is so pronounced that it clouds your reading comprehension.oski003 said:
Current Chairman and ex CEO of Reuters is on Pfizer board. Pfizer is a monster. Again, the democrat administration is on a campaign to put mRNA shots in people's arms. You are a democrat. You cast aside sources you don't agree with.
The current chairman of Thompson Reuters is David Thompson.
The current chairman of Thomson Reuters Foundation, a London-based CHARITY is Jim Smith.
He is also a board member of Pfizer.
He's so deep in the anti vax world thst he's lost all perspective. He's the only one here who gives a **** about vaccine technology. The people sacrificing themselves every single day don't care about it either. They are just part of a radicalized tribe that has taken their marching orders and won't get vaxxed.
Sadly, this isn't just COVID related. Now, Georgia is passing a law to prohibit all vaccine mandates of every kind, exposing kids to unnecessary risk of measles, polio and other easily prevented communicable diseases using traditional vaccine technology that has been safely deployed for decades. 003 can't see any of that through his fog of his anti mRNA agenda but people like him contribute to the pollution of our public health.Legislation has been introduced in the Georgia Senate with to ban any public entity from requiring *any* vaccination as a precondition for services or facility access, wiping out the preexisting standards. #gapol https://t.co/uKg5Y85T71 pic.twitter.com/TsyljBC10x
— Anthony Michael Kreis (@AnthonyMKreis) January 24, 2022
If the US / FDA would support traditional vaccine platforms, it would make Georgia appear even more ridiculous. I don't defend Georgia. You just think I do because you can't delineate such.
I have no qualm with criticisms of companies that are behaving poorly and I have long been critical (on BI and in real life) of the revolving door between our government and private industries. Elizabeth Warren wanted to actually do something about it (and Trump laughably pretended to care) but the rest of the political class is uninterested. Where I take issue is with you conflating issues. We are fortunate that the mRNA vaccines worked out and they were wildly better than people had expected. Fauci said early in the pandemic that we might not be able to achieve something much better than 70% effective. What we have found is that the mRNA vaccines are capable of being far more effective than that. They were the key to reducing the death toll and an earlier return to normalcy. Because anti-vaxxers polluted the public discourse, tens of millions of Americans became radicalized and we are seeing the impact now, both in daily sacrifices to COVID and in pushes around the country to reduce or remove vaccine mandates that have been working for decades to keep our children safe. The fact that you can't connect the dots speaks to your lack of perspective.
Almost every vaccine that I have ever seen trial data for has prevented severe disease in the lungs. Once mRNA stopped preventing infection (that irrelevant number you still tout, surprisingly), they became just like the other vaccines, except they have extremely low tolerability and some dangerous side effects. Let's keep mRNA as an option. Fine. Give people some choice. Everyone knows that mRNA is a new tech and is not working like you say it is (except against severe disease). T cell based vaccines protect the lungs. Bring them on. No need to shock the body to elicit antibodies.
Here's some real world data from Singapore:Quote:
Of the 802 people who died from COVID-19 last year in the city-state, 555, or about 70%, weren't fully vaccinated, health minister Ong Ye Kung told parliament Monday, showing the life-saving impact of inoculation.
Singapore found 11 deaths per 100,000 among people who received Sinovac shots and 7.8 deaths among those with Sinopharm. This number fell to 6.2 deaths for those with the messenger RNA (mRNA) shot jointly developed by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE, and 1 fatality in those who were administered the vaccine from Moderna.
While Ong added some caveats to his comments the sample size was small and did not account for factors such as age and timing of vaccine doses the findings will likely add to concerns around the efficacy of Sinovac's and Sinopharm Group's inactivated virus shots, which have been widely used in the developing world. Initial laboratory studies have already suggested that Sinovac, even with a booster dose, is not effective against the highly transmissible omicron variant that's now dominating the world.
I don't have a subscription to the Japan Times so I can't read the entire article. I consider Pfizer a safer, less durable version of Moderna. Based on a Google excerpt it looks like a death rate of 11 per 100,000 sinovac, 7.8 sinopharm, and 6.2 Moderna. Moderna is more effective than Sinovac. I am not sure how much is matters now with Omicron, however, but I don't really push Sinovac anyway. Sinovac > unvaccinated, that is obvious. Moderna is a massive dose so it lasts longer. Pfizer is less than 1/3 the dose, and they have even cut that in half for kids for safety reasons.
Back to the conversation about the threat of anti-vax to our public health, here's an article. Let's stop pretending that Kamala Harris' comments from 2020 or Biden's comments from September or later are the problem here. This is a fire that's been stoked by conservative leaders and people spreading misinformation. This is the dangerous rhetoric that you should be concerned about and it's implications for our future are obvious.The choice before the Republican Party is not whether to hand over power to kooks, but which kooks should rule. @jonathanchait writes https://t.co/fnt2MYNOWS
— Intelligencer (@intelligencer) January 28, 2022Quote:
When an ideological extreme faction with unpopular views emerges, it becomes a threat to the party that hosts it. At first, the party's incentive is to banish the extremists, lest their toxic ideas taint the party's brand with the broader electorate. But if the radical faction's growth is not arrested, the calculus changes, and barring the doors can no longer work. It forms a large enough part of the base that the party can't afford to alienate its members. The crank wing becomes too big to fail.
...
American opinion on vaccines has begun to separate itself from the rest of the democratic world. Twenty percent of Americans say they are unwilling to take a COVID vaccine, a rate matched globally only by Russia. Among fellow democracies, the next-highest rate of vaccine refusal is 7 percent, or one-third as high. That 20 percent is not uniformly Republican, but partisanship accounts for an increasing share of vaccine refusal. That fifth of the population is not close to a majority, but it is large enough to hold a respected place in one of the two parties.
One indication of the anti-vaxx movement's rise is through the explosive growth of anti-vaccination media personalities like Joe Rogan and Alex Berenson, who have forced established conservative pundits to co-opt their appeal. The Fox News prime-time lineup is creeping farther and farther right on vaccines. Sean Hannity recently declared, "Now that we know that whether you're vaccinated or boosted and had natural immunity you're still going to get it, why is he still calling it a 'pandemic of the vaccinated'?" Laura Ingraham claimed "vaccines aren't stopping the spread from people from getting sick, so when can we end this 'mandates work' charade?"
Tucker Carlson, going farther still, gave Berenson a platform to allege, without challenge, "The mRNA COVID vaccines need to be withdrawn from the market … They are a dangerous and ineffective product at this point."
Politicians have responded to this upsurge in anti-vaccine activism somewhat more cautiously. Senator Ron Johnson has held hearings that have cast doubt on vaccines (or, as the Federalist described them in a fawning story, "so-called vaccines.") Republicans in three states are moving to end school mandates for other, non-COVID vaccines that have been in place for decades.
Florida governor Ron DeSantis has held rallies with anti-vaxxers, appointed an anti-vaxxer as his state's top health official, and recently suspended a county health official for the crime of scolding his staff on email for having a vaccination rate under 50 percent, a truly harrowing figure for a health agency.
