Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

132,346 Views | 2565 Replies | Last: 4 days ago by oski003
bearister
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NFL headaches:

https://abc7news.com/sports/nfl-postponing-3-games-due-to-covid-outbreaks-sources-tell-espn/11352878/
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bearister
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Anti-Vaxxer Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s House Party Guests Told to Get Vaccinated Before Coming


https://www.thedailybeast.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr-house-party-guests-were-told-to-get-vaccinated-before-coming
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oski003
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The WHO just approved the Novavax protein vaccine. Maybe he thinks they can find a way to access that despite BP's regulatory capture over the U.S. and Europe? Btw, 90% chance Novavax gets approval in Europe on Monday, despite Bourla wining and dining their executive branch all last week.
bearister
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How bad research clouded our understanding of Covid-19 - Vox


https://apple.news/AzZQCPbneRRaAr_do8aaBvg
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oski003
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Moderna backs down in its vaccine patent fight with the N.I.H.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/17/us/moderna-patent-nih.html?s=07

The NIH owns patents on Moderna's vaccine. Moderna is also in court with Arbutus Pharmaceuticals because they allegedly stole the mRNA lipid delivery tech.
oski003
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If this Trump supporting state senator flew to latin america without being vaccinated, that was not a smart decision.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/state-senator-dies-a-month-after-telling-a-local-radio-station-he-was-sick-with-covid-19-while-in-el-salvador/ar-AARXcrg?li=BBnb7Kz
Big C
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oski003 said:

If this Trump supporting state senator flew to latin america without being vaccinated, that was not a smart decision.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/state-senator-dies-a-month-after-telling-a-local-radio-station-he-was-sick-with-covid-19-while-in-el-salvador/ar-AARXcrg?li=BBnb7Kz

He regretted that he had but one life to give for his freedom.
sycasey
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My guess is that places with high vaccination rates are going to be fine in the Omicron wave. Hospitals will not be overwhelmed there. Places with low vax rates are rolling the dice.
MinotStateBeav
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sycasey said:



My guess is that places with high vaccination rates are going to be fine in the Omicron wave. Hospitals will not be overwhelmed there. Places with low vax rates are rolling the dice.
You list some random screen cap with no source and no distinction between omicron and any other variant in regards to death. Howard Forman is a clown.

2 days ago, South African Health Minister
sycasey
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MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:



My guess is that places with high vaccination rates are going to be fine in the Omicron wave. Hospitals will not be overwhelmed there. Places with low vax rates are rolling the dice.
You list some random screen cap with no source and no distinction between omicron and any other variant in regards to death. Howard Forman is a clown.

2 days ago, South African Health Minister


You'll have to explain how this post refutes anything I wrote.
AunBear89
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sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:



My guess is that places with high vaccination rates are going to be fine in the Omicron wave. Hospitals will not be overwhelmed there. Places with low vax rates are rolling the dice.
You list some random screen cap with no source and no distinction between omicron and any other variant in regards to death. Howard Forman is a clown.

2 days ago, South African Health Minister


You'll have to explain how this post refutes anything I wrote.

Asking Minot to explain ANYTHING, is like asking a four year old to explain quantum physics.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Unit2Sucks
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Some people are saying that Omicron could be as contagious as the measles. It doesn't sound like it will be more severe than Delta for those infected, but there is a pretty high chance that it rips through the country with the highest infection rates we've seen since last winter's surge, even with ~60% of the country vaccinated. If not for the vaccines we would be looking at huge fatalities but even as is this will push us over 1m dead far faster than Delta alone would have.

What people seem to miss when evaluating these waves is that behavior does matter and most of the US has decided they are done with precautions.

The development of Omicron doesn't augur well for the future. We need to double down on therapeutics and vaccines or we will be dealing with variants for who knows how long. I can't imagine a better ROI for our species right now.
sycasey
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Unit2Sucks said:

The development of Omicron doesn't augur well for the future. We need to double down on therapeutics and vaccines or we will be dealing with variants for who knows how long. I can't imagine a better ROI for our species right now.

Why do you think it doesn't augur well? The dominance of a milder, highly contagious strain would seem to herald the beginning of endemicity. It becomes another seasonal cold at that point.

Also, I think a highly effective antiviral therapeutic treatment is coming very soon.
Unit2Sucks
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sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

The development of Omicron doesn't augur well for the future. We need to double down on therapeutics and vaccines or we will be dealing with variants for who knows how long. I can't imagine a better ROI for our species right now.

Why do you think it doesn't augur well? The dominance of a milder, highly contagious strain would seem to herald the beginning of endemicity. It becomes another seasonal cold at that point.

Also, I think a highly effective antiviral therapeutic treatment is coming very soon.
We are 2 years into this and on the precipice of what could be our deadliest wave. That doesn't feel good. What will the next variant look like? We still haven't gotten back down to the may/june death levels despite Glen Greenwald doing his best to con his conservative followers into believing so by sharpie-ing graphs.



People are over COVID but it's not over us.
sycasey
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Unit2Sucks said:

sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

The development of Omicron doesn't augur well for the future. We need to double down on therapeutics and vaccines or we will be dealing with variants for who knows how long. I can't imagine a better ROI for our species right now.

Why do you think it doesn't augur well? The dominance of a milder, highly contagious strain would seem to herald the beginning of endemicity. It becomes another seasonal cold at that point.

Also, I think a highly effective antiviral therapeutic treatment is coming very soon.
We are 2 years into this and on the precipice of what could be our deadliest wave. That doesn't feel good. What will the next variant look like?


Anything is possible, but given the evidence out of South Africa, not sure why one would expect this to be the deadliest wave. Their cases went up but deaths didn't.



Yes, that country has a younger population but is also much less vaccinated than the US. And they had Delta and the original strain too, both of which were deadlier. At this point I doubt that Omicron will be the worst wave. There may be some places with lower vax rates and vulnerable populations that are at risk of overcrowded hospitals.

From what I can tell, this seems to be the normal route of a cold/flu virus like this: a new strain becomes more contagious but less deadly, that becomes the dominant one, and the pandemic becomes endemic. That looks like the most likely outcome here to me.
Big C
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Yeah, as far as our life here in the US, I'm going to start to become petrified about omicron when I see it causing severe disease in a decent percentage (like 2%+) of healthy, non-overweight, vaxxed-and-boosted people like me. That may sound selfish, but people have had PLENTY of chances to get vaccinated, for goodness sake. They did their own research. They made a choice. Freedom.

Let's work to help get the rest of the world vaccinated and get those therapeutics out there.
wraptor347
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Seriously? You don't think the screenshot with his editorial is misleading? He's claiming the death rate among people under 75 after the vaccines were made available is negligible while pretending there wasn't a massive spike blocked by the legend.

He saw the spike, took a screenshot with the legend blocking the spike, then decided to tweet out the screenshot without mentioning the spike. But you think because the CDC website renders the legend over the graph that there's nothing wrong with what he tweeted?

He could have very easily taken one screenshot with the legend and one without to give a complete picture but obviously he didn't since that would go against his narrative.
AunBear89
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wraptor347 said:

Seriously? You don't think the screenshot with his editorial is misleading? He's claiming the death rate among people under 75 after the vaccines were made available is negligible while pretending there wasn't a massive spike blocked by the legend.

He saw the spike, took a screenshot with the legend blocking the spike, then decided to tweet out the screenshot without mentioning the spike. But you think because the CDC website renders the legend over the graph that there's nothing wrong with what he tweeted?

He could have very easily taken one screenshot with the legend and one without to give a complete picture but obviously he didn't since that would go against his narrative.


You'll have to forgive YogiHydraSockPuppet - he's not very good at the critical thinking stuff. All emotion and zero intellect.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Unit2Sucks
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In not new news, vaccines still work.



Unfortunately, existing monoclonal antibodies may not work against Omicron.

Unit2Sucks
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Fresh from Reuters:

Quote:

For vaccines available in the UK, effectiveness against symptomatic Omicron infection ranged from 0% to 20% after two doses, and from 55% to 80% following a booster dose. The report also estimated that after taking individual risk factors into account, the odds of reinfection with Omicron are 5.4 times greater than for reinfection with Delta. A study of healthcare workers in the pre-Omicron era estimated that a prior SARS-CoV-2 infection afforded 85% protection against a second infection over 6 months, the researchers said, while "the protection against reinfection by Omicron afforded by past infection may be as low as 19%."

If this holds true, people are really going to want to get boosted to avoid Omicron. Prior infection (particularly if it wasn't recent) also not looking like a strong defense.
MinotStateBeav
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Unit2Sucks said:

Fresh from Reuters:

Quote:

For vaccines available in the UK, effectiveness against symptomatic Omicron infection ranged from 0% to 20% after two doses, and from 55% to 80% following a booster dose. The report also estimated that after taking individual risk factors into account, the odds of reinfection with Omicron are 5.4 times greater than for reinfection with Delta. A study of healthcare workers in the pre-Omicron era estimated that a prior SARS-CoV-2 infection afforded 85% protection against a second infection over 6 months, the researchers said, while "the protection against reinfection by Omicron afforded by past infection may be as low as 19%."

If this holds true, people are really going to want to get boosted to avoid Omicron. Prior infection (particularly if it wasn't recent) also not looking like a strong defense.
Naw I'm good. I'll eat omicron infected corn flakes. I don't tend to panic when I get a cold.

AunBear89
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Please do. Have three bowls. Eat up, RWNJ.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Big C
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MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Fresh from Reuters:

Quote:

For vaccines available in the UK, effectiveness against symptomatic Omicron infection ranged from 0% to 20% after two doses, and from 55% to 80% following a booster dose. The report also estimated that after taking individual risk factors into account, the odds of reinfection with Omicron are 5.4 times greater than for reinfection with Delta. A study of healthcare workers in the pre-Omicron era estimated that a prior SARS-CoV-2 infection afforded 85% protection against a second infection over 6 months, the researchers said, while "the protection against reinfection by Omicron afforded by past infection may be as low as 19%."

If this holds true, people are really going to want to get boosted to avoid Omicron. Prior infection (particularly if it wasn't recent) also not looking like a strong defense.
Naw I'm good. I'll eat omicron infected corn flakes. I don't tend to panic when I get a cold.



Minot, it depends on your profile: If you don't have any underlying conditions, you're almost certainly gonna be fine. But if there's anything, age, weight, anything, why not play it safe?

Plus, as I can tell you from personal experience, you would enjoy the 5G!
MinotStateBeav
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Big C said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Fresh from Reuters:

Quote:

For vaccines available in the UK, effectiveness against symptomatic Omicron infection ranged from 0% to 20% after two doses, and from 55% to 80% following a booster dose. The report also estimated that after taking individual risk factors into account, the odds of reinfection with Omicron are 5.4 times greater than for reinfection with Delta. A study of healthcare workers in the pre-Omicron era estimated that a prior SARS-CoV-2 infection afforded 85% protection against a second infection over 6 months, the researchers said, while "the protection against reinfection by Omicron afforded by past infection may be as low as 19%."

If this holds true, people are really going to want to get boosted to avoid Omicron. Prior infection (particularly if it wasn't recent) also not looking like a strong defense.
Naw I'm good. I'll eat omicron infected corn flakes. I don't tend to panic when I get a cold.



Minot, it depends on your profile: If you don't have any underlying conditions, you're almost certainly gonna be fine. But if there's anything, age, weight, anything, why not play it safe?

Plus, as I can tell you from personal experience, you would enjoy the 5G!
I recovered from Covid in Feb of 2020. I've been fine.

Unit2Sucks
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MinotStateBeav said:


I recovered from Covid in Feb of 2020. I've been fine.
Everyone responds differently. You probably will be fine, there's no way for us to know. Immunity from infection isn't particularly homogeneous. Some people mount a robust response with measurable antibodies for many months, others don't. I've heard anywhere from 1/5 to 1/3 don't develop any antibodies. For those who do, they can range by orders of magnitude. Without knowing which group you are in, it's pretty tough to say how you will do.

The nice thing about vaccines is that they are far more likely to develop an immune response across a population. They're a far more reliable tool than someone saying they had COVID before, without that person being able to prove that they developed a level of antibodies consistent with a vaccinated person.

It's a shame that so many people who "trust their immune systems" are doing so without a reasonable basis but that's their choice. Unfortunately, the fallout for people who are wrong goes far beyond their personal health as each serious infection adds to the toll on the health care system, etc.
MinotStateBeav
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Unit2Sucks said:

MinotStateBeav said:


I recovered from Covid in Feb of 2020. I've been fine.
Everyone responds differently. You probably will be fine, there's no way for us to know. Immunity from infection isn't particularly homogeneous. Some people mount a robust response with measurable antibodies for many months, others don't. I've heard anywhere from 1/5 to 1/3 don't develop any antibodies. For those who do, they can range by orders of magnitude. Without knowing which group you are in, it's pretty tough to say how you will do.

The nice thing about vaccines is that they are far more likely to develop an immune response across a population. They're a far more reliable tool than someone saying they had COVID before, without that person being able to prove that they developed a level of antibodies consistent with a vaccinated person.

It's a shame that so many people who "trust their immune systems" are doing so without a reasonable basis but that's their choice. Unfortunately, the fallout for people who are wrong goes far beyond their personal health as each serious infection adds to the toll on the health care system, etc.
This "vaccine" isn't a vaccine my guy. It doesn't stop the virus from spreading, so its only purpose is to reduce symptoms. Natural immunity to this set of variants will last the rest of my life. The virus fighting instructions get imprinted on your t-cells and your body can call up those t-cells to begin fighting the virus instantly when virus is detected. However due to the virus continually morphing into a more virulent and less lethal variant, makes covid endemic, meaning you just live with it. You can take the vaccine if you want, but nobody should be required for it to live their life. The panic being induced by the media and our own governments are all based on flawed models who overstate the severity of the new covid variants. The people running the models admit they do it.
sycasey
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MinotStateBeav said:

This "vaccine" isn't a vaccine my guy. It doesn't stop the virus from spreading, so its only purpose is to reduce symptoms. Natural immunity to this set of variants will last the rest of my life. The virus fighting instructions get imprinted on your t-cells and your body can call up those t-cells to begin fighting the virus instantly when virus is detected.

. . . that's what the vaccine does too.
MinotStateBeav
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sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

This "vaccine" isn't a vaccine my guy. It doesn't stop the virus from spreading, so its only purpose is to reduce symptoms. Natural immunity to this set of variants will last the rest of my life. The virus fighting instructions get imprinted on your t-cells and your body can call up those t-cells to begin fighting the virus instantly when virus is detected.

. . . that's what the vaccine does too.
no, vaccines stop replication.
sycasey
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MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

This "vaccine" isn't a vaccine my guy. It doesn't stop the virus from spreading, so its only purpose is to reduce symptoms. Natural immunity to this set of variants will last the rest of my life. The virus fighting instructions get imprinted on your t-cells and your body can call up those t-cells to begin fighting the virus instantly when virus is detected.

. . . that's what the vaccine does too.
no, vaccines stop replication.

Wrong. Flu shots are also vaccines and they don't completely protect against infection or transmission either. Still vaccines.
MinotStateBeav
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sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

This "vaccine" isn't a vaccine my guy. It doesn't stop the virus from spreading, so its only purpose is to reduce symptoms. Natural immunity to this set of variants will last the rest of my life. The virus fighting instructions get imprinted on your t-cells and your body can call up those t-cells to begin fighting the virus instantly when virus is detected.

. . . that's what the vaccine does too.
no, vaccines stop replication.

Wrong. Flu shots are also vaccines and they don't completely protect against infection or transmission either. Still vaccines.
Flu shots are targeted to the most common types of flu and yes they do protect against those targeted flu variants. Not ALL flu variants.
Unit2Sucks
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MinotStateBeav said:

Unit2Sucks said:

MinotStateBeav said:


I recovered from Covid in Feb of 2020. I've been fine.
Everyone responds differently. You probably will be fine, there's no way for us to know. Immunity from infection isn't particularly homogeneous. Some people mount a robust response with measurable antibodies for many months, others don't. I've heard anywhere from 1/5 to 1/3 don't develop any antibodies. For those who do, they can range by orders of magnitude. Without knowing which group you are in, it's pretty tough to say how you will do.

The nice thing about vaccines is that they are far more likely to develop an immune response across a population. They're a far more reliable tool than someone saying they had COVID before, without that person being able to prove that they developed a level of antibodies consistent with a vaccinated person.

It's a shame that so many people who "trust their immune systems" are doing so without a reasonable basis but that's their choice. Unfortunately, the fallout for people who are wrong goes far beyond their personal health as each serious infection adds to the toll on the health care system, etc.
This "vaccine" isn't a vaccine my guy. It doesn't stop the virus from spreading, so its only purpose is to reduce symptoms. Natural immunity to this set of variants will last the rest of my life. The virus fighting instructions get imprinted on your t-cells and your body can call up those t-cells to begin fighting the virus instantly when virus is detected. However due to the virus continually morphing into a more virulent and less lethal variant, makes covid endemic, meaning you just live with it. You can take the vaccine if you want, but nobody should be required for it to live their life. The panic being induced by the media and our own governments are all based on flawed models who overstate the severity of the new covid variants. The people running the models admit they do it.
What is your definition of a "vaccine" and where does it come from?

As for your claim that "nobody should be required for it to live their life" that is laughably false. Thousands of unvaccinated people are dying every week because they chose not to receive the vaccine that would have saved their lives. So, yeah, those people literally required the vaccine to live beyond COVID.

Trump has some of the best healthcare of anyone in the world and what did he do when he got COVID? He skipped HCQ and Ivermeectin and went straight for Regeneron and dexamethasone. He also got vaccinated as soon as he could and has received a booster. Why don't you think his doctors told Trump to trust his immune system? Do you think they are unaware of the general functioning of an immune system response to viral infection as you described above?
sycasey
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MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

This "vaccine" isn't a vaccine my guy. It doesn't stop the virus from spreading, so its only purpose is to reduce symptoms. Natural immunity to this set of variants will last the rest of my life. The virus fighting instructions get imprinted on your t-cells and your body can call up those t-cells to begin fighting the virus instantly when virus is detected.

. . . that's what the vaccine does too.
no, vaccines stop replication.

Wrong. Flu shots are also vaccines and they don't completely protect against infection or transmission either. Still vaccines.
Flu shots are targeted to the most common types of flu and yes they do protect against those targeted flu variants. Not ALL flu variants.
Hmm, still not seeing how this is different from the COVID vaccines.
BearForce2
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oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

Fresh from Reuters:

Quote:

For vaccines available in the UK, effectiveness against symptomatic Omicron infection ranged from 0% to 20% after two doses, and from 55% to 80% following a booster dose. The report also estimated that after taking individual risk factors into account, the odds of reinfection with Omicron are 5.4 times greater than for reinfection with Delta. A study of healthcare workers in the pre-Omicron era estimated that a prior SARS-CoV-2 infection afforded 85% protection against a second infection over 6 months, the researchers said, while "the protection against reinfection by Omicron afforded by past infection may be as low as 19%."

If this holds true, people are really going to want to get boosted to avoid Omicron. Prior infection (particularly if it wasn't recent) also not looking like a strong defense.


Ex CEO and current chair of Reuters sits on the Pfizer Board. Dollar bills y'all.
Big C
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BearForce2 said:



The virus is currently winding its way through the colder Northeast. We know darn well that it cycles through different areas. . Coincidentally, where it is now contains more blue states. Let's be intellectually honest and see which states have the most per capita deaths since the beginning of the pandemic. And if you would prefer to wait a couple of months to allow the NE to complete their surge, I'm fine with that.
 
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