Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

545,012 Views | 5396 Replies | Last: 16 hrs ago by bear2034
oski003
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Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

How quickly we forget. Vaccine Nazis were ubiquitous on MSM and social media. The anti-vaxxer rants were constant; vaccine hesitant were told they shouldn't be allowed to shop, dine, wouldn't be treated at hospitals. They were insulted and ridiculed constantly by regime officials, health "experts", media personalities, and random authoritarians on the internet.
Forgive and move on? Yes. Forget? Never.


I saw those people too and disagreed with them at times (especially when it came to reopening schools). Nazis though? I think it was just a public argument happening in a free society and things changed as circumstances and opinions changed. The Nazis did not allow such arguments.
Public argument in a free society? That's just not a fair characterization of what happened. If people holding positions counter to yours behaved in the way that the Vaxx Nazis did (yeah, they were Nazis in the common parlance of the term. Intimidate, censor, and bully--sounds like a Nazi to me), I think you'd be singing a very different tune.

And your take on Novak is baffling. How does not being allowed to compete in major tournaments not equal a major negative impact to his career?


The government coerced tech companies into doing a lot of secret censorship of anti mRNA vax ideas and pushed the pro vax agenda forward.
sycasey
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Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

How quickly we forget. Vaccine Nazis were ubiquitous on MSM and social media. The anti-vaxxer rants were constant; vaccine hesitant were told they shouldn't be allowed to shop, dine, wouldn't be treated at hospitals. They were insulted and ridiculed constantly by regime officials, health "experts", media personalities, and random authoritarians on the internet.
Forgive and move on? Yes. Forget? Never.


I saw those people too and disagreed with them at times (especially when it came to reopening schools). Nazis though? I think it was just a public argument happening in a free society and things changed as circumstances and opinions changed. The Nazis did not allow such arguments.
Public argument in a free society? That's just not a fair characterization of what happened. If people holding positions counter to yours behaved in the way that the Vaxx Nazis did (yeah, they were Nazis in the common parlance of the term. Intimidate, censor, and bully--sounds like a Nazi to me), I think you'd be singing a very different tune.

And your take on Novak is baffling. How does not being allowed to compete in major tournaments not equal a major negative impact to his career?

Yeah, a lot of people lost career or educational opportunities thanks to COVID and the reaction to such. In retrospect, some of that didn't need to happen. I don't think it was all so obvious in the moment, so I tend to cut people a lot of slack.

There were some folks who took a heavy-handed approach to COVID, but how many were in our government? Compared so some other places (Asia, Australia) our regulations and enforcement were pretty lax. Hardly Nazi-like.
Zippergate
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Millions were forced to take the jabs or lose their jobs thanks to the mandates. Sounds pretty authoritarian to me.

Here's a good, small sampling of the Vaxx Nazis. Self-appointed social media thought police, anonymous and and otherwise, took their cues from these people and escalated the anti-vaxx rhetoric to insane levels.
If you're not comfortable with the term Nazi, call it something else if you like, but given what we knew at the time, this behavior was most certainly not appropriate.

Zippergate
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Interesting table of the childhood vaccine schedule here. It's either true or it's not. The recent comments from the godfather of childhood vaccines suggests that it is. I wonder what the general public would think if they knew.

https://www.2ndsmartestguyintheworld.com/p/clinical-trials-of-childhood-vaccines?r=aiop6&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

"None of the vaccine does the CDC recommends for routine injection into children were licensed by the FDA based on a long-term placebo-controlled trial."
sycasey
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Zippergate said:

Millions were forced to take the jabs or lose their jobs thanks to the mandates. Sounds pretty authoritarian to me.

Mandates that were ultimately reversed. Not very authoritarian.
Zippergate
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A dialog played out by millions...

Authority: Take the vaxx or lose your job, your ability to travel, etc
Individual: It's not right for me.
Authority: Too bad. Vaxx or else. NOW.
Individual: (gets vaxxed reluctantly)

...six months later...
Authority: Well, you don't really need to get vaxxed after all. Shut up and do your job.



sycasey
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Zippergate said:

A dialog played out by millions...

Authority: Take the vaxx or lose your job, your ability to travel, etc
Individual: It's not right for me.
Authority: Too bad. Vaxx or else. NOW.
Individual: (gets vaxxed reluctantly)

...six months later...
Authority: Well, you don't really need to get vaxxed after all. Shut up and do your job.
Yeah, knowledge about the virus and vaccine effectiveness was changing rapidly at that time. Some of this was also private organizations making their own decisions and not the government.
oski003
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sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

A dialog played out by millions...

Authority: Take the vaxx or lose your job, your ability to travel, etc
Individual: It's not right for me.
Authority: Too bad. Vaxx or else. NOW.
Individual: (gets vaxxed reluctantly)

...six months later...
Authority: Well, you don't really need to get vaxxed after all. Shut up and do your job.
Yeah, knowledge about the virus and vaccine effectiveness was changing rapidly at that time. Some of this was also private organizations making their own decisions and not the government.


These private organizations were given billions by the government. These private organizations and the government knew a lot more than the public. We were gaslighted.
Zippergate
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sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

A dialog played out by millions...

Authority: Take the vaxx or lose your job, your ability to travel, etc
Individual: It's not right for me.
Authority: Too bad. Vaxx or else. NOW.
Individual: (gets vaxxed reluctantly)

...six months later...
Authority: Well, you don't really need to get vaxxed after all. Shut up and do your job.
Yeah, knowledge about the virus and vaccine effectiveness was changing rapidly at that time. Some of this was also private organizations making their own decisions and not the government.
Huh? Private organizations were told by the government to mandate. Large organizations all marched in goosestep, err...lockstep. By the time university students were forced to take the jab, experts knew that they were at minimal risk from the virus and also knew that there were serious side effects from the vaccines and unknown long-term effects from mRNA technology. These were political decisions, not medical ones.

I still don't understand how a person who was forced to get jabbed to keep their employment was not the victim of authoritarian overreach. Perhaps you can explain how such a person can become unjabbed after the mandates were rescinded 18 months later.
TheFiatLux
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Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

A dialog played out by millions...

Authority: Take the vaxx or lose your job, your ability to travel, etc
Individual: It's not right for me.
Authority: Too bad. Vaxx or else. NOW.
Individual: (gets vaxxed reluctantly)

...six months later...
Authority: Well, you don't really need to get vaxxed after all. Shut up and do your job.
Yeah, knowledge about the virus and vaccine effectiveness was changing rapidly at that time. Some of this was also private organizations making their own decisions and not the government.
Huh? Private organizations were told by the government to mandate. Large organizations all marched in goosestep, err...lockstep. By the time university students were forced to take the jab, experts knew that they were at minimal risk from the virus and also knew that there were serious side effects from the vaccines and unknown long-term effects from mRNA technology. These were political decisions, not medical ones.

I still don't understand how a person who was forced to get jabbed to keep their employment was not the victim of authoritarian overreach. Perhaps you can explain how such a person can become unjabbed after the mandates were rescinded 18 months later.
Exactly. This is like saying "Your death penalty conviction was overturned. Sorry you were already executed before that happened. But all is good now."
Eastern Oregon Bear
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TheFiatLux said:

Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

A dialog played out by millions...

Authority: Take the vaxx or lose your job, your ability to travel, etc
Individual: It's not right for me.
Authority: Too bad. Vaxx or else. NOW.
Individual: (gets vaxxed reluctantly)

...six months later...
Authority: Well, you don't really need to get vaxxed after all. Shut up and do your job.
Yeah, knowledge about the virus and vaccine effectiveness was changing rapidly at that time. Some of this was also private organizations making their own decisions and not the government.
Huh? Private organizations were told by the government to mandate. Large organizations all marched in goosestep, err...lockstep. By the time university students were forced to take the jab, experts knew that they were at minimal risk from the virus and also knew that there were serious side effects from the vaccines and unknown long-term effects from mRNA technology. These were political decisions, not medical ones.

I still don't understand how a person who was forced to get jabbed to keep their employment was not the victim of authoritarian overreach. Perhaps you can explain how such a person can become unjabbed after the mandates were rescinded 18 months later.
Exactly. This is like saying "Your death penalty conviction was overturned. Sorry you were already executed before that happened. But all is good now."
So you're equating the Covid vaccine with the death penalty? Talk about overreaching.
TheFiatLux
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

A dialog played out by millions...

Authority: Take the vaxx or lose your job, your ability to travel, etc
Individual: It's not right for me.
Authority: Too bad. Vaxx or else. NOW.
Individual: (gets vaxxed reluctantly)

...six months later...
Authority: Well, you don't really need to get vaxxed after all. Shut up and do your job.
Yeah, knowledge about the virus and vaccine effectiveness was changing rapidly at that time. Some of this was also private organizations making their own decisions and not the government.
Huh? Private organizations were told by the government to mandate. Large organizations all marched in goosestep, err...lockstep. By the time university students were forced to take the jab, experts knew that they were at minimal risk from the virus and also knew that there were serious side effects from the vaccines and unknown long-term effects from mRNA technology. These were political decisions, not medical ones.

I still don't understand how a person who was forced to get jabbed to keep their employment was not the victim of authoritarian overreach. Perhaps you can explain how such a person can become unjabbed after the mandates were rescinded 18 months later.
Exactly. This is like saying "Your death penalty conviction was overturned. Sorry you were already executed before that happened. But all is good now."
So you're equating the Covid vaccine with the death penalty? Talk about overreaching.
You understand what an analogy is, right? And that they're not literal one-to-one comparisons. You can't unring a bell.
sycasey
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

A dialog played out by millions...

Authority: Take the vaxx or lose your job, your ability to travel, etc
Individual: It's not right for me.
Authority: Too bad. Vaxx or else. NOW.
Individual: (gets vaxxed reluctantly)

...six months later...
Authority: Well, you don't really need to get vaxxed after all. Shut up and do your job.
Yeah, knowledge about the virus and vaccine effectiveness was changing rapidly at that time. Some of this was also private organizations making their own decisions and not the government.
Huh? Private organizations were told by the government to mandate. Large organizations all marched in goosestep, err...lockstep. By the time university students were forced to take the jab, experts knew that they were at minimal risk from the virus and also knew that there were serious side effects from the vaccines and unknown long-term effects from mRNA technology. These were political decisions, not medical ones.

I still don't understand how a person who was forced to get jabbed to keep their employment was not the victim of authoritarian overreach. Perhaps you can explain how such a person can become unjabbed after the mandates were rescinded 18 months later.
Exactly. This is like saying "Your death penalty conviction was overturned. Sorry you were already executed before that happened. But all is good now."
So you're equating the Covid vaccine with the death penalty? Talk about overreaching.
This is what I'm saying. The thing is that I would actually agree that some of the COVID restrictions and shut-downs were unnecessary (especially in retrospect). But the above language and all the catastrophizing makes it impossible to have a real discussion about them.

And before anyone starts, yes I agree that catastrophizing came from the other side of the aisle too (see: people telling me at the time that I wanted to murder teachers because I thought elementary schools should have re-opened sooner). That's not a good reason to contribute more of it.
oski003
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TheFiatLux said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

A dialog played out by millions...

Authority: Take the vaxx or lose your job, your ability to travel, etc
Individual: It's not right for me.
Authority: Too bad. Vaxx or else. NOW.
Individual: (gets vaxxed reluctantly)

...six months later...
Authority: Well, you don't really need to get vaxxed after all. Shut up and do your job.
Yeah, knowledge about the virus and vaccine effectiveness was changing rapidly at that time. Some of this was also private organizations making their own decisions and not the government.
Huh? Private organizations were told by the government to mandate. Large organizations all marched in goosestep, err...lockstep. By the time university students were forced to take the jab, experts knew that they were at minimal risk from the virus and also knew that there were serious side effects from the vaccines and unknown long-term effects from mRNA technology. These were political decisions, not medical ones.

I still don't understand how a person who was forced to get jabbed to keep their employment was not the victim of authoritarian overreach. Perhaps you can explain how such a person can become unjabbed after the mandates were rescinded 18 months later.
Exactly. This is like saying "Your death penalty conviction was overturned. Sorry you were already executed before that happened. But all is good now."
So you're equating the Covid vaccine with the death penalty? Talk about overreaching.
You understand what an analogy is, right? And that they're not literal one-to-one comparisons. You can't unring a bell.


So you're equating the Covid vaccine with the death penalty and bells? Talk about overreaching. Do you understand humans aren't bells? Geez!
TheFiatLux
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oski003 said:

TheFiatLux said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

A dialog played out by millions...

Authority: Take the vaxx or lose your job, your ability to travel, etc
Individual: It's not right for me.
Authority: Too bad. Vaxx or else. NOW.
Individual: (gets vaxxed reluctantly)

...six months later...
Authority: Well, you don't really need to get vaxxed after all. Shut up and do your job.
Yeah, knowledge about the virus and vaccine effectiveness was changing rapidly at that time. Some of this was also private organizations making their own decisions and not the government.
Huh? Private organizations were told by the government to mandate. Large organizations all marched in goosestep, err...lockstep. By the time university students were forced to take the jab, experts knew that they were at minimal risk from the virus and also knew that there were serious side effects from the vaccines and unknown long-term effects from mRNA technology. These were political decisions, not medical ones.

I still don't understand how a person who was forced to get jabbed to keep their employment was not the victim of authoritarian overreach. Perhaps you can explain how such a person can become unjabbed after the mandates were rescinded 18 months later.
Exactly. This is like saying "Your death penalty conviction was overturned. Sorry you were already executed before that happened. But all is good now."
So you're equating the Covid vaccine with the death penalty? Talk about overreaching.
You understand what an analogy is, right? And that they're not literal one-to-one comparisons. You can't unring a bell.


So you're equating the Covid vaccine with the death penalty? Talk about overreaching. Do you understand humans aren't bells? Geez!
You're totally right. The other day during an afternoon thunderstorm I said "The skies have opened up" which of course is ridiculous since there's no door latch or anything on the sky... it's always open. How embarrassing of me!
Cal88
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Dosages and vaccine content were subject to great variability, with wildly fluctuating rates of secondary effects. In a small New zealand town, 51 patients who were administered a covid vaccine on the same day ended up dying within 6 months. This was a running experiment.

dajo9
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I don't normally post in this wasteland thread but this lie was too big and obvious. Liz Gunn is a New Zealand repeat vaccine liar.
https://fullfact.org/health/covid-vaccine-new-zealand-clinic-cluster-30/
"The rules were that you were not going to fact check"
MAGA
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

I don't normally post in this wasteland thread but this lie was too big and obvious. Liz Gunn is a New Zealand repeat vaccine liar.
https://fullfact.org/health/covid-vaccine-new-zealand-clinic-cluster-30/

Your info above is nearly 2 year old, a lot of the information about the data in NZ and elsewhere only surfaced more recently.

The basic premise here, that the rate of adverse side effects is highly variable and depends on the vaccine batch has already been established:



Blue data: earlier batches.
Yellow batches look like placebos, with zero side effects.

Discussion about this study showing wild variations in vaccine batches from Dr. Campbell:





Zippergate
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So much for ask your doctor. Next time, if experts like Hotez get their way, they'll send in the stormtroopers to hold people down as they're jabbed.

https://open.substack.com/pub/lionessofjudah/p/charlatan-dr-peter-hotez-calls-biden?r=aiop6&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

"So-called health expert Dr. Peter Hotez has called Biden regime, the United Nations and NATO to deploy security forces against "anti-vaxxers" in the United States.
Vaccine promoter Dr. Peter Hotez made headlines last year for refusing to debate author, activist, presidential candidate, and attorney Robert Kennedy, Jr. on the effectiveness of the COVID-19 vaccines.
Rather than accept the challenge, Hotez lashed out at both Robert Kennedy Jr. and Joe Rogan, who invited the two to debate the facts on his show.
Hotez refused and smeared Robert Kennedy, Jr. instead. Hotez actually said, "Science is not something that is typically debated." What a fraud.
Then, the 'charlatan' doctor claimed that 'Disease X' is coming, which will be worse than COVID-19.
The Gateway Pundit first reported on Dr. Hotez in late December 2021. In our report by Dr. Lawrence Sellin, we noted that Dr. Hotez was the recipient of a grant from Dr. Fauci for $1 million a year. "

...
Now, according to a report from Brownstone Institute, so-called expert Hotez has called for the deployment of DOJ, DHS, and also called United Nations and NATO security forces against "anti-vaxxers." His incendiary remarks were made during an international pediatric conference in Colombia .
Dr. Hotez's statements initially appeared on the YouTube channel of an international pediatric conference in Colombia but quickly gained traction on X.
The Simposio Internacional de Actualizacin en Pediatra (International Symposium of Pediatric Updates) later removed the interview from YouTube, but photos and clips of Hotez's interview continue to circulate on social media.
In one widely shared clip, Hotez claims that "anti-vaxxers" caused hundreds of thousands of deaths in the United States:
Quote:

"What I've said to the Biden administration is, the health sector can't solve this on its own. We're going to have to bring in Homeland Security, the Commerce Department, Justice Department to help us understand how to do this.
I've said the same with…I met with [WHO general director] Dr. Tedros last month…to say, I don't know that the World Health Organization can solve this on our own. We need the other United Nations agenciesNATO. This is a security problem, because it's no longer a theoretical construct or some arcane academic exercise. Two hundred thousand Americans died because of anti-vaccine aggression, anti-science aggression.
And so, this is now a lethal force…and now I feel as a pediatric vaccine scientist…it's important, just as important for me to make new vaccines, to save lives. The other side of saving lives is countering this anti-vaccine aggression."
Last October, Scientific American gave Hotez a platform to discuss "anti-science," where he did not hesitate to suggest that supporting scientists would require intervention by the Department of Homeland Security and the creation of a federal interagency task force.
Again, in August 2021, during a grand rounds lecture, Hotez called for deploying federal police to support science.
A whistleblower at Texas Children's Hospital provided footage of Hotez's lecture, where he described the "disinformation empire" as a threat to America that needed to be addressed by the Department of Homeland Security.
"The problem is the disinformation empire is so vast and pervasive that until we do something more definitive to get to the source of the disinformation and stop it, it's not going to have that much of an impact. And that's where everybody moves away from me. And I tend to be out on a…out on my own here," said Hotez.

Zippergate
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The authoritarian corporatists blame this on the anti-vaxxers. But obviously for such a large drop in confidence to occur, there had to be a loss of confidence by all parts of the political spectrum including the ones who were rabidly anti-anti-vaxxer. What caused their loss of confidence?

TheFiatLux
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This would be jaw dropping except it's San Francisco…

These are lost souls.




sycasey
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I didn't realize San Francisco was in Contra Costa county.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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sycasey said:

I didn't realize San Francisco was in Contra Costa county.
It's a part of the ongoing county realignment. I'm still trying to wrap my head around Humboldt county now being a part of Orange county.
TheFiatLux
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sycasey said:

I didn't realize San Francisco was in Contra Costa county.
It's the San Francisco Bay Area, which is why, you know, the SAN FRANCISCO Chronicle is covering it. I think you realize that.
sycasey
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TheFiatLux said:

sycasey said:

I didn't realize San Francisco was in Contra Costa county.
It's the San Francisco Bay Area, which is why, you know, the SAN FRANCISCO Chronicle is covering it. I think you realize that.

Okay. Why are we upset with non-binding guidance about masks now?
Eastern Oregon Bear
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sycasey said:

TheFiatLux said:

sycasey said:

I didn't realize San Francisco was in Contra Costa county.
It's the San Francisco Bay Area, which is why, you know, the SAN FRANCISCO Chronicle is covering it. I think you realize that.

Okay. Why are we upset with non-binding guidance about masks now?
I see someone wearing a mask almost every time I go to the grocery store. Am I suppose to rip it off their face because it interferes with my freedom?
TheFiatLux
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

sycasey said:

TheFiatLux said:

sycasey said:

I didn't realize San Francisco was in Contra Costa county.
It's the San Francisco Bay Area, which is why, you know, the SAN FRANCISCO Chronicle is covering it. I think you realize that.

Okay. Why are we upset with non-binding guidance about masks now?
I see someone wearing a mask almost every time I go to the grocery store. Am I suppose to rip it off their face because it interferes with my freedom?
To both you and Sycasey. If someone wants to wear a mask in their shower, have it. Or if they want to wear a mask in Whole Foods, knock yourself out. Maybe those folks do indeed have some compromised immune system (I doubt it), but whatever. It's when public health officials push something that's just sheer idiocy and also, not at all science. It just gives cover to those who thirst for more power grabs. But the main thing for me is it's just so incredibly stupid.
movielover
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

sycasey said:

TheFiatLux said:

sycasey said:

I didn't realize San Francisco was in Contra Costa county.
It's the San Francisco Bay Area, which is why, you know, the SAN FRANCISCO Chronicle is covering it. I think you realize that.

Okay. Why are we upset with non-binding guidance about masks now?
I see someone wearing a mask almost every time I go to the grocery store. Am I suppose to rip it off their face because it interferes with my freedom?


I see people driving their car, alone, w a mask, and I know they're a lost whacky sexless Democrat.
bearister
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Scientists say they may have discovered a shocking cause of autism



https://mol.im/a/13723959
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bearister
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Stanford Medical Center now has a mandatory mask policy during this summer spike. Most other major centers encourage masks but not mandatory.

I assume the explanation for these mask policies, since I assume these major medical centers are almost as smart as the main players in this thread, is that they are getting a major financial kickback from mask manufacturers and that is why they are asking people to do something that is not supported by science.
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sycasey
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So here's the thing: I fully buy that the mask mandates didn't work like they were supposed to (in part because of lax enforcement, in part because health officials blew their own trust levels with the public). That seems to have been conflated with the idea that wearing masks does nothing, which isn't really true, particularly if you are talking about the good KN-95 type masks. You can reduce the chance of catching the virus if you do that.

I don't advocate mandates in general (in special locations like hospitals, sure, I can see it), especially since the population seems pretty well inoculated to COVID-19 now. But as optional public health guidance to people who are concerned about catching disease, it's fine.
bearister
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The reason the mask policies are not compulsory at all medical centers during spikes is that they can't afford the security for when Fox News Fred goes apesh@it when asked to put a mask on.
At Furd Medical Center it takes the approach, "Either put a mask on or get the f@uck outa here and take your exotic disease to your local Urgent Care……and Fred puts that mask on like an obedient little b@itch.
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movielover
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Err, they don't work. Bakersfield doctors went over this at the start of the hysterical 'pandemic' - had over 5 Million views, and YT banned them.

Add in face masks, smart phones, and wandering hands. Impossible!
bearister
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Address the motive of the university medical centers preferring they be used when the really smart guys know they are useless.
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movielover
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bearister said:

Address the motive of the university medical centers preferring they be used when the really smart guys know they are useless.


Liberalism is a mental disorder.

These same quacks are now butchering confused teenagers on the Woke Altar of Trans issues at over 100 hospitals nationwide.

They also swallowed the Kool-aid and ignored proven safe, effective Ivermectin, Vitamin D, Zinc, and losing weight... all to push the deadly, unproven, untested $700 Billion-in-profit clot shot.

You can't pad your paycheck pushing Vitamin D, exercise, and Ivermectin. These same folks pushed a low fat diet on us, and statins
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