The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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oski003
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https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/russia-outlook-charts-wall-street-investing-analysis-market-strategy-economy-2022-8?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=sf-markets-insider

Also hearing rumors that Europe is going to have a very hard winter as energy is incredibly expensive. Governments are going to have to subsidize a lot of energy so that people don't freeze.
Cal88
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Those are are the current electricity costs of 1 MWh in the EU, likely to go higher in months to come. The ECB will likely provide an aid package that is going to further stoke inflation and erosion of the Euro. For comparison, in the US the cost is in the low $100s.
Cal88
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There is a very basic aspect of the Ukraine conflict that I might have mentioned several pages ago, and also brought up in another thread, but is worth reposting here, the fact that the central government of Ukraine has been actively repressing its large, established Russian/Russophone minority, through language laws that severely restrict the usage of their native language in all facets of their lives.

Here's some details from Wikipedia:

"In April 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted a new law, the Law of Ukraine "to ensure the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language". On 16 June 2019, the law entered into force.

The law made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within certain quotas)

in the work of some public authorities,
in the electoral procedures and political campaigning,
in pre-school, school and university education,
in scientific, cultural and sporting activities,
in book publishing and book distribution,
in printed mass media, television and radio broadcasting,
in economic and social life (commercial advertising, public events),
in hospitals and nursing homes, and
in the activities of political parties and other legal entities (e.g. non-governmental organizations) registered in Ukraine.

Some special exemptions are provided for the Crimean Tatar language, other languages of indigenous peoples of Ukraine, the English language and the other official languages of the European Union; as languages of minorities that are not EU official languages, Russian, Byelorussian and Yiddish are excluded from the exemptions"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine

In Zelensky's Ukraine, you can publish a book in English, Norvegian or Swahili, but you're not allowed to publish in Russian, the native language of a third of the country (ironically also Zelensky's mother tongue).

Any people will rise if their basic right to live in their own language and cultural norms is denied by a central government authority that intends to suppress their culture and language. Quebec would rise, take arms and immediately secede from Canada if French were outlawed by the federal Canadian government, no ifs, ands or buts.

There is no other country in the so-called free world that throttles the rights of an established, large minority to the same extent that Ukraine does.

This is a very basic facet of the Ukraine conflict that is totally left out of the official narrative.
bearister
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Russia's Death Toll Rises in Ukraine


https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/08/russia-ukraine-deaths-casualties-rises/


Putin is trapped and desperate. Will his friends in the west rescue him?


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/28/putin-is-trapped-and-desperate-will-his-friends-in-the-west-rescue-him-russia-ukraine?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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Big C
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Cal88 said:

There is a very basic aspect of the Ukraine conflict that I might have mentioned several pages ago, and also brought up in another thread, but is worth reposting here, the fact that the central government of Ukraine has been actively repressing its large, established Russian/Russophone minority, through language laws that severely restrict the usage of their native language in all facets of their lives.

Here's some details from Wikipedia:

"In April 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted a new law, the Law of Ukraine "to ensure the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language". On 16 June 2019, the law entered into force.

The law made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within certain quotas)

in the work of some public authorities,
in the electoral procedures and political campaigning,
in pre-school, school and university education,
in scientific, cultural and sporting activities,
in book publishing and book distribution,
in printed mass media, television and radio broadcasting,
in economic and social life (commercial advertising, public events),
in hospitals and nursing homes, and
in the activities of political parties and other legal entities (e.g. non-governmental organizations) registered in Ukraine.

Some special exemptions are provided for the Crimean Tatar language, other languages of indigenous peoples of Ukraine, the English language and the other official languages of the European Union; as languages of minorities that are not EU official languages, Russian, Byelorussian and Yiddish are excluded from the exemptions"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine

In Zelensky's Ukraine, you can publish a book in English, Norvegian or Swahili, but you're not allowed to publish in Russian, the native language of a third of the country (ironically also Zelensky's mother tongue).

Any people will rise if their basic right to live in their own language and cultural norms is denied by a central government authority that intends to suppress their culture and language. Quebec would rise, take arms and immediately secede from Canada if French were outlawed by the federal Canadian government, no ifs, ands or buts.

There is no other country in the so-called free world that throttles the rights of an established, large minority to the same extent that Ukraine does.

This is a very basic facet of the Ukraine conflict that is totally left out of the official narrative.


As a bit of an aside, it's fairly interesting what has been going on over there, linguistically. The Russian and Ukrainian languages are rather similar (think Spanish and Portuguese, approximately). Thirty years ago, you could get by speaking Russian anywhere in Ukraine (and school children were taught it). Then the Ukrainian nationalist movement began to reemphasize the Ukrainian language.

If I know my linguistics, there must have been a quite a bit of merging of the two languages in some areas, forming something of a creole language, at least unofficially. (Kind of like "Spanglish", but kind of different.) It would be interesting to go there and study this, but not so interesting as to risk getting one's head shot off. Certainly, similar studies have already been done for our edification
Unit2Sucks
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Big C said:

Cal88 said:

There is a very basic aspect of the Ukraine conflict that I might have mentioned several pages ago, and also brought up in another thread, but is worth reposting here, the fact that the central government of Ukraine has been actively repressing its large, established Russian/Russophone minority, through language laws that severely restrict the usage of their native language in all facets of their lives.

Here's some details from Wikipedia:

"In April 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted a new law, the Law of Ukraine "to ensure the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language". On 16 June 2019, the law entered into force.

The law made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within certain quotas)

in the work of some public authorities,
in the electoral procedures and political campaigning,
in pre-school, school and university education,
in scientific, cultural and sporting activities,
in book publishing and book distribution,
in printed mass media, television and radio broadcasting,
in economic and social life (commercial advertising, public events),
in hospitals and nursing homes, and
in the activities of political parties and other legal entities (e.g. non-governmental organizations) registered in Ukraine.

Some special exemptions are provided for the Crimean Tatar language, other languages of indigenous peoples of Ukraine, the English language and the other official languages of the European Union; as languages of minorities that are not EU official languages, Russian, Byelorussian and Yiddish are excluded from the exemptions"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine

In Zelensky's Ukraine, you can publish a book in English, Norvegian or Swahili, but you're not allowed to publish in Russian, the native language of a third of the country (ironically also Zelensky's mother tongue).

Any people will rise if their basic right to live in their own language and cultural norms is denied by a central government authority that intends to suppress their culture and language. Quebec would rise, take arms and immediately secede from Canada if French were outlawed by the federal Canadian government, no ifs, ands or buts.

There is no other country in the so-called free world that throttles the rights of an established, large minority to the same extent that Ukraine does.

This is a very basic facet of the Ukraine conflict that is totally left out of the official narrative.


As a bit of an aside, it's fairly interesting what has been going on over there, linguistically. The Russian and Ukrainian languages are rather similar (think Spanish and Portuguese, approximately). Thirty years ago, you could get by speaking Russian anywhere in Ukraine (and school children were taught it). Then the Ukrainian nationalist movement began to reemphasize the Ukrainian language.

If I know my linguistics, there must have been a quite a bit of merging of the two languages in some areas, forming something of a creole language, at least unofficially. (Kind of like "Spanglish", but kind of different.) It would be interesting to go there and study this, but not so interesting as to risk getting one's head shot off. Certainly, similar studies have already been done for our edification
I think it's worth pointing out that Cal88 is just blindly amplifying Kremlin propaganda and that of course the extreme version he presents here isn't true. Russian language books can still be published in Ukraine. People in Ukraine can still speak Russian and they can still get their news in Russian.

As always, I would suggest extreme caution when reviewing Cal88's posts. They are riddled with misinformation because he unquestionably swallows whatever narrative Putin creates. For more detail, see the breaking news thread where I more thoroughly debunk his narrative and he disappears.

BTW, this is the sort of vile BS that perfuses Russia's war against Ukraine. Putin doesn't think Ukraine should exist. He thinks Russia is entitled to it and that Ukraine's only purpose is to be anti-Russian. Accordingly, the want to extinguish Ukraine. Cal88 doesn't like to talk about this part and prefers to pretend that any other number of made up reasons are justification for what's really going on.



Oh also, this is good for a laugh. The Kremlin is so incompetent they decided to use sequentially numbered fake passports for their spies. That's how people recently figured out one of the many spies who infiltrated Mar a Lago - I'm referring to the fake heiress. I think it's important to point that out to disambiguate other known spies and any future ones that come out.


bearister
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With regard to the Russian spy at Mar-a- Lago: Yeah, and tRump would have us believe that Putin didn't want him to win POTUS in 2016 because of his Big Brain and how strong he is.

I'm convinced that the main reason Putin is in poor health is that from 2016-2020 he never had a solid night's sleep because he couldn't stop rolling around on the floor giggling over the realization that he put an orangutan at the helm of the U.S. Government.
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cal83dls79
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Cal88 said:



Those are are the current electricity costs of 1 MWh in the EU, likely to go higher in months to come. The ECB will likely provide an aid package that is going to further stoke inflation and erosion of the Euro. For comparison, in the US the cost is in the low $100s.



It's not a rumor. It's real and in part a result of the European energy liberalization strategy focused on cost not supply. Well Putin won this battle as energy panic now will divide Europe. It also puts in play an expansion of nuclear power to provide electricity to electricity-strapped Europe.
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Cal88
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Unit2Sucks said:

Big C said:

Cal88 said:

There is a very basic aspect of the Ukraine conflict that I might have mentioned several pages ago, and also brought up in another thread, but is worth reposting here, the fact that the central government of Ukraine has been actively repressing its large, established Russian/Russophone minority, through language laws that severely restrict the usage of their native language in all facets of their lives.

Here's some details from Wikipedia:

"In April 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted a new law, the Law of Ukraine "to ensure the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language". On 16 June 2019, the law entered into force.

The law made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within certain quotas)

in the work of some public authorities,
in the electoral procedures and political campaigning,
in pre-school, school and university education,
in scientific, cultural and sporting activities,
in book publishing and book distribution,
in printed mass media, television and radio broadcasting,
in economic and social life (commercial advertising, public events),
in hospitals and nursing homes, and
in the activities of political parties and other legal entities (e.g. non-governmental organizations) registered in Ukraine.

Some special exemptions are provided for the Crimean Tatar language, other languages of indigenous peoples of Ukraine, the English language and the other official languages of the European Union; as languages of minorities that are not EU official languages, Russian, Byelorussian and Yiddish are excluded from the exemptions"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine

In Zelensky's Ukraine, you can publish a book in English, Norvegian or Swahili, but you're not allowed to publish in Russian, the native language of a third of the country (ironically also Zelensky's mother tongue).

Any people will rise if their basic right to live in their own language and cultural norms is denied by a central government authority that intends to suppress their culture and language. Quebec would rise, take arms and immediately secede from Canada if French were outlawed by the federal Canadian government, no ifs, ands or buts.

There is no other country in the so-called free world that throttles the rights of an established, large minority to the same extent that Ukraine does.

This is a very basic facet of the Ukraine conflict that is totally left out of the official narrative.


As a bit of an aside, it's fairly interesting what has been going on over there, linguistically. The Russian and Ukrainian languages are rather similar (think Spanish and Portuguese, approximately). Thirty years ago, you could get by speaking Russian anywhere in Ukraine (and school children were taught it). Then the Ukrainian nationalist movement began to reemphasize the Ukrainian language.

If I know my linguistics, there must have been a quite a bit of merging of the two languages in some areas, forming something of a creole language, at least unofficially. (Kind of like "Spanglish", but kind of different.) It would be interesting to go there and study this, but not so interesting as to risk getting one's head shot off. Certainly, similar studies have already been done for our edification
I think it's worth pointing out that Cal88 is just blindly amplifying Kremlin propaganda and that of course the extreme version he presents here isn't true. Russian language books can still be published in Ukraine. People in Ukraine can still speak Russian and they can still get their news in Russian.

As always, I would suggest extreme caution when reviewing Cal88's posts. They are riddled with misinformation because he unquestionably swallows whatever narrative Putin creates. For more detail, see the breaking news thread where I more thoroughly debunk his narrative and he disappears.

I don't "disappear", I have a life, FT+ job and a social life.

My post above is straight out of Wikipedia`s chapter on language laws in Ukraine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine

You didn't debunk anything, the text above from Wiki is true. You just have a lot more time on your hands and a seemingly unlimited disposition for very long and whiny obfuscations and smears.

You've never addressed my many, many proofs of the neo-nazi culture that pervades modern Ukrainian nationalism. There is nowhere else in the world today where THOUSANDS of people march with bona fide nazi flags and emblems glorifying real WW2 SS officers like Bandera and other SS "heroes", or congregations that commemorate their dead with members in real WW2 SS uniforms...

All of this reality just doesn't exist in your concept of Ukraine today.

Anything that doesn`t completely follow the narrative, including this page on wikipedia, can be smeared as "Putin propaganda".

I suppose if, 20 years ago, I had posted about the yellowcake, mobile biowarfare labs, WMDs and the rest of the official Pentagon propaganda that was relayed in the MSM during the Iraq invasion, if I've posted that all of these were fakeries and wartime propaganda, I would have been smeared and labelled a Saddam stooge and apologist. I'll take that.

The majority of Americans today are in a wartime trance, even more pervasive than in the 00s, because at least back then there still was somewhat of an anti-war movement, whereas today almost all Democrats are hardened warmongers with an irrational, reptilian hatred for anything Russian.
sycasey
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Ah yes, we're back on this narrative that Ukraine with its Jewish president is all about neo-Nazi ideology. Sure.

The Bandera thing is problematic (guess what, every country has problematic stuff like that), but it's also way overstated by Russian propagandists.
Unit2Sucks
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Cal88 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Big C said:

Cal88 said:


In Zelensky's Ukraine, you can publish a book in English, Norvegian or Swahili, but you're not allowed to publish in Russian, the native language of a third of the country (ironically also Zelensky's mother tongue).

Any people will rise if their basic right to live in their own language and cultural norms is denied by a central government authority that intends to suppress their culture and language. Quebec would rise, take arms and immediately secede from Canada if French were outlawed by the federal Canadian government, no ifs, ands or buts.

There is no other country in the so-called free world that throttles the rights of an established, large minority to the same extent that Ukraine does.

This is a very basic facet of the Ukraine conflict that is totally left out of the official narrative.




I don't "disappear", I have a life, FT+ job and a social life.

My post above is straight out of Wikipedia`s chapter on language laws in Ukraine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine

You didn't debunk anything, the text above from Wiki is true. You just have a lot more time on your hands and a seemingly unlimited disposition for very long and whiny obfuscations and smears.

You've never addressed my many, many proofs of the neo-nazi culture that pervades modern Ukrainian nationalism. There is nowhere else in the world today where THOUSANDS of people march with bona fide nazi flags and emblems glorifying real WW2 SS officers like Bandera and other SS "heroes", or congregations that commemorate their dead with members in real WW2 SS uniforms...

All of this reality just doesn't exist in your concept of Ukraine today.

Anything that doesn`t completely follow the narrative, including this page on wikipedia, can be smeared as "Putin propaganda".

I suppose if, 20 years ago, I had posted about the yellowcake, mobile biowarfare labs, WMDs and the rest of the official Pentagon propaganda that was relayed in the MSM during the Iraq invasion, if I've posted that all of these were fakeries and wartime propaganda, I would have been smeared and labelled a Saddam stooge and apologist. I'll take that.

The majority of Americans today are in a wartime trance, even more pervasive than in the 00s, because at least back then there still was somewhat of an anti-war movement, whereas today almost all Democrats are hardened warmongers with an irrational, reptilian hatred for anything Russian.
It's the lies that you peppered around the wikipedia quotes that I was referring to. The post I responded to said:
Quote:

In Zelensky's Ukraine, you can publish a book in English, Norvegian or Swahili, but you're not allowed to publish in Russian, the native language of a third of the country (ironically also Zelensky's mother tongue).
This is not true and you know it's not true. You love to find some factual nugget to scaffold your wild and obviously false claims on. You've been doing it for years. It's a form of the motte and bailey logical fallacy. Just because you occasionally quote a legitimate source doesn't excuse you piling on false claim after false claim.

As for the nazi stuff, no one has ever denied there is a nazi presence in Ukraine. I don't know whether it's larger or smaller proportionally than the very same in Russia nor do I know how much of the Ukraine stuff is just made up by the Kremlin. But we do know that the Kremlin is making stuff up and that you happily amplify their made up stuff. I know you're trying to forget your laughably bad posts in the moderna thread last week when you posted anti-vax misinformation from a conspiracy website which Russia has used to spread misinformation about nazis in Ukraine. And of course you never weigh in on any of Russia's laughably bad efforts to paint Ukraine as overrun by nazis, which you of course continue to dissemble.

Here's the NYT pointing out the obvious. Russia's very much interested in painting Ukraine as a nazi wasteland but that narrative is solely to attempt to justify the unjustifiable and unprovoked war. I understand why Putin wants to portray that story, but why are you so gullible as to fall for it?



So forgive us the outrage. Why do you care about nazis in ukraine but not in Russia? Why would you pretend that Putin cares? If Putin wanted to get rid of nazis, he would probably start by looking at his own country and I don't know just spitballing here - maybe stop encouraging nazis in his very own military? Here's an article about how he's using Russian nazi forces to ... denazify Ukraine? Here's an article about how he cultivates their support. So give us a break, you don't care about nazis in Ukraine and neither does Putin. Nor do you have any idea how far the Kremlin agitprop false flag stuff goes. As the last article points out, this is farcical.

You've been caught time and time again spreading false information and I'm now beginning to wonder if you do it intentionally or if you are just a victim who is unable to discern fact from fiction. Either way, you've made it quite clear that everything you post should be viewed with suspicion and that you can't be trusted.
Cal88
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No country has anything of the scale and nature of the Ukrainian neo-nazi movement. We're not talking about a couple fo hundred disgruntled incels in khaki pants at Charlotsville, or a bunch of soccer hooligans, we're talking about 100,000 armed militias, Azov, Aidar, Right Sector, C14 etc.

Quote:

"Ukraine is the world's only nation to have a neo-Nazi formation in its armed forces," a correspondent for the US-based magazine, the Nation, wrote in 2019.
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/

Quote:

Five years ago, Ukraine's Maidan uprising ousted President Viktor Yanukovych, to the cheers and support of the West. Politicians and analysts in the United States and Europe not only celebrated the uprising as a triumph of democracy, but denied reports of Maidan's ultranationalism, smearing those who warned about the dark side of the uprising as Moscow puppets and useful idiots.

Today, increasing reports of far-right violence, ultranationalism, and erosion of basic freedoms are giving the lie to the West's initial euphoria. There are neo-Nazi pogroms against the Roma, rampant attacks on feminists and LGBT groups, book bans, and state-sponsored glorification of Nazi collaborators.

These stories of Ukraine's dark nationalism aren't coming out of Moscow; they're being filed by Western media, including US-funded Radio Free Europe (RFE); Jewish organizations such as the World Jewish Congress and the Simon Wiesenthal Center; and watchdogs like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Freedom House, which issued a joint report warning that Kiev is losing the monopoly on the use of force in the country as far-right gangs operate with impunity.

Five years after Maidan, the beacon of democracy is looking more like a torchlight march.

A neo-Nazi battalion in the heart of Europe
"Volunteer Ukrainian Unit Includes Nazis."USA Today, March 10, 2015

The DC establishment's standard defense of Kiev is to point out that Ukraine's far right has a smaller percentage of seats in the parliament than their counterparts in places like France. That's a spurious argument: What Ukraine's far right lacks in polls numbers, it makes up for with things Marine Le Pen could only dream ofparamilitary units and free rein on the streets.

Post-Maidan Ukraine is the world's only nation to have a neo-Nazi formation in its armed forces. The Azov Battalion was initially formed out of the neo-Nazi gang Patriot of Ukraine. Andriy Biletsky, the gang's leader who became Azov's commander, once wrote that Ukraine's mission is to "lead the White Races of the world in a final crusade…against the Semite-led Untermenschen." Biletsky is now a deputy in Ukraine's parliament.
[url=https://subscriptions.thenation.com/Nation_index?pk=G2A1CLT][/url]
In the fall of 2014, Azovwhich is accused of human-rights abuses, including torture, by Human Rights Watch and the United Nationswas incorporated into Ukraine's National Guard.
While the group officially denies any neo-Nazi connections, Azov's nature has been confirmed by multiple Western outlets: The New York Times called the battalion "openly neo-Nazi," while USA Today, The Daily Beast, The Telegraph, and Haaretz documented group members' proclivity for swastikas, salutes, and other Nazi symbols, and individual fighters have also acknowledged being neo-Nazis.


People who point out that Zelensky is Jewish as a cover for this do not understand the complexity of the political dynamics at the top of Ukraine. Kolomoisky, Jewish oligarch who launched the career and business interests of Zelensky, is one of the main funders of these neo-nazi groups.

Quote:

Before becoming part of Ukraine's armed forces, who funded Azov?

The unit received backing from Ukraine's interior minister in 2014, as the government had recognised its own military was too weak to fight off the pro-Russian separatists and relied on paramilitary volunteer forces.

These forces were privately funded by oligarchs the most known being Igor Kolomoisky, an energy magnate billionaire and then-governor of the Dnipropetrovska region.
In addition to Azov, Kolomoisky funded other volunteer battalions such as the Dnipro 1 and Dnipro 2, Aidar and Donbas units.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1/who-are-the-azov-regiment


oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

Cal88 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Big C said:

Cal88 said:


In Zelensky's Ukraine, you can publish a book in English, Norvegian or Swahili, but you're not allowed to publish in Russian, the native language of a third of the country (ironically also Zelensky's mother tongue).

Any people will rise if their basic right to live in their own language and cultural norms is denied by a central government authority that intends to suppress their culture and language. Quebec would rise, take arms and immediately secede from Canada if French were outlawed by the federal Canadian government, no ifs, ands or buts.

There is no other country in the so-called free world that throttles the rights of an established, large minority to the same extent that Ukraine does.

This is a very basic facet of the Ukraine conflict that is totally left out of the official narrative.




I don't "disappear", I have a life, FT+ job and a social life.

My post above is straight out of Wikipedia`s chapter on language laws in Ukraine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine

You didn't debunk anything, the text above from Wiki is true. You just have a lot more time on your hands and a seemingly unlimited disposition for very long and whiny obfuscations and smears.

You've never addressed my many, many proofs of the neo-nazi culture that pervades modern Ukrainian nationalism. There is nowhere else in the world today where THOUSANDS of people march with bona fide nazi flags and emblems glorifying real WW2 SS officers like Bandera and other SS "heroes", or congregations that commemorate their dead with members in real WW2 SS uniforms...

All of this reality just doesn't exist in your concept of Ukraine today.

Anything that doesn`t completely follow the narrative, including this page on wikipedia, can be smeared as "Putin propaganda".

I suppose if, 20 years ago, I had posted about the yellowcake, mobile biowarfare labs, WMDs and the rest of the official Pentagon propaganda that was relayed in the MSM during the Iraq invasion, if I've posted that all of these were fakeries and wartime propaganda, I would have been smeared and labelled a Saddam stooge and apologist. I'll take that.

The majority of Americans today are in a wartime trance, even more pervasive than in the 00s, because at least back then there still was somewhat of an anti-war movement, whereas today almost all Democrats are hardened warmongers with an irrational, reptilian hatred for anything Russian.
It's the lies that you peppered around the wikipedia quotes that I was referring to. The post I responded to said:
Quote:

In Zelensky's Ukraine, you can publish a book in English, Norvegian or Swahili, but you're not allowed to publish in Russian, the native language of a third of the country (ironically also Zelensky's mother tongue).
This is not true and you know it's not true. You love to find some factual nugget to scaffold your wild and obviously false claims on. You've been doing it for years. It's a form of the motte and bailey logical fallacy. Just because you occasionally quote a legitimate source doesn't excuse you piling on false claim after false claim.

As for the nazi stuff, no one has ever denied there is a nazi presence in Ukraine. I don't know whether it's larger or smaller proportionally than the very same in Russia nor do I know how much of the Ukraine stuff is just made up by the Kremlin. But we do know that the Kremlin is making stuff up and that you happily amplify their made up stuff. I know you're trying to forget your laughably bad posts in the moderna thread last week when you posted anti-vax misinformation from a conspiracy website which Russia has used to spread misinformation about nazis in Ukraine. And of course you never weigh in on any of Russia's laughably bad efforts to paint Ukraine as overrun by nazis, which you of course continue to dissemble.

Here's the NYT pointing out the obvious. Russia's very much interested in painting Ukraine as a nazi wasteland but that narrative is solely to attempt to justify the unjustifiable and unprovoked war. I understand why Putin wants to portray that story, but why are you so gullible as to fall for it?



So forgive us the outrage. Why do you care about nazis in ukraine but not in Russia? Why would you pretend that Putin cares? If Putin wanted to get rid of nazis, he would probably start by looking at his own country and I don't know just spitballing here - maybe stop encouraging nazis in his very own military? Here's an article about how he's using Russian nazi forces to ... denazify Ukraine? Here's an article about how he cultivates their support. So give us a break, you don't care about nazis in Ukraine and neither does Putin. Nor do you have any idea how far the Kremlin agitprop false flag stuff goes. As the last article points out, this is farcical.

You've been caught time and time again spreading false information and I'm now beginning to wonder if you do it intentionally or if you are just a victim who is unable to discern fact from fiction. Either way, you've made it quite clear that everything you post should be viewed with suspicion and that you can't be trusted.



Requiring a Russian language publication to also publish everything in Ukraine is very restrictive, especially since 30% of the people speak Russian primarily and this isn't required for most other languages. I am not sure why you are on your high horse about this, except you are emotionally tied to the good guys.
sycasey
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oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Cal88 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Big C said:

Cal88 said:


In Zelensky's Ukraine, you can publish a book in English, Norvegian or Swahili, but you're not allowed to publish in Russian, the native language of a third of the country (ironically also Zelensky's mother tongue).

Any people will rise if their basic right to live in their own language and cultural norms is denied by a central government authority that intends to suppress their culture and language. Quebec would rise, take arms and immediately secede from Canada if French were outlawed by the federal Canadian government, no ifs, ands or buts.

There is no other country in the so-called free world that throttles the rights of an established, large minority to the same extent that Ukraine does.

This is a very basic facet of the Ukraine conflict that is totally left out of the official narrative.




I don't "disappear", I have a life, FT+ job and a social life.

My post above is straight out of Wikipedia`s chapter on language laws in Ukraine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine

You didn't debunk anything, the text above from Wiki is true. You just have a lot more time on your hands and a seemingly unlimited disposition for very long and whiny obfuscations and smears.

You've never addressed my many, many proofs of the neo-nazi culture that pervades modern Ukrainian nationalism. There is nowhere else in the world today where THOUSANDS of people march with bona fide nazi flags and emblems glorifying real WW2 SS officers like Bandera and other SS "heroes", or congregations that commemorate their dead with members in real WW2 SS uniforms...

All of this reality just doesn't exist in your concept of Ukraine today.

Anything that doesn`t completely follow the narrative, including this page on wikipedia, can be smeared as "Putin propaganda".

I suppose if, 20 years ago, I had posted about the yellowcake, mobile biowarfare labs, WMDs and the rest of the official Pentagon propaganda that was relayed in the MSM during the Iraq invasion, if I've posted that all of these were fakeries and wartime propaganda, I would have been smeared and labelled a Saddam stooge and apologist. I'll take that.

The majority of Americans today are in a wartime trance, even more pervasive than in the 00s, because at least back then there still was somewhat of an anti-war movement, whereas today almost all Democrats are hardened warmongers with an irrational, reptilian hatred for anything Russian.
It's the lies that you peppered around the wikipedia quotes that I was referring to. The post I responded to said:
Quote:

In Zelensky's Ukraine, you can publish a book in English, Norvegian or Swahili, but you're not allowed to publish in Russian, the native language of a third of the country (ironically also Zelensky's mother tongue).
This is not true and you know it's not true. You love to find some factual nugget to scaffold your wild and obviously false claims on. You've been doing it for years. It's a form of the motte and bailey logical fallacy. Just because you occasionally quote a legitimate source doesn't excuse you piling on false claim after false claim.

As for the nazi stuff, no one has ever denied there is a nazi presence in Ukraine. I don't know whether it's larger or smaller proportionally than the very same in Russia nor do I know how much of the Ukraine stuff is just made up by the Kremlin. But we do know that the Kremlin is making stuff up and that you happily amplify their made up stuff. I know you're trying to forget your laughably bad posts in the moderna thread last week when you posted anti-vax misinformation from a conspiracy website which Russia has used to spread misinformation about nazis in Ukraine. And of course you never weigh in on any of Russia's laughably bad efforts to paint Ukraine as overrun by nazis, which you of course continue to dissemble.

Here's the NYT pointing out the obvious. Russia's very much interested in painting Ukraine as a nazi wasteland but that narrative is solely to attempt to justify the unjustifiable and unprovoked war. I understand why Putin wants to portray that story, but why are you so gullible as to fall for it?



So forgive us the outrage. Why do you care about nazis in ukraine but not in Russia? Why would you pretend that Putin cares? If Putin wanted to get rid of nazis, he would probably start by looking at his own country and I don't know just spitballing here - maybe stop encouraging nazis in his very own military? Here's an article about how he's using Russian nazi forces to ... denazify Ukraine? Here's an article about how he cultivates their support. So give us a break, you don't care about nazis in Ukraine and neither does Putin. Nor do you have any idea how far the Kremlin agitprop false flag stuff goes. As the last article points out, this is farcical.

You've been caught time and time again spreading false information and I'm now beginning to wonder if you do it intentionally or if you are just a victim who is unable to discern fact from fiction. Either way, you've made it quite clear that everything you post should be viewed with suspicion and that you can't be trusted.



Requiring a Russian language publication to also publish everything in Ukraine is very restrictive, especially since 30% of the people speak Russian primarily and this isn't required for most other languages. I am not sure why you are on your high horse about this, except you are emotionally tied to the good guys.
Because Cal88 originally tried to claim that Ukraine had banned all Russian publications in the country. Not true.
chazzed
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This is promisimg, unless you are Call88 or another of the forum's Putin sympathizers.
Unit2Sucks
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Just more cherry-picking from Cal88, to no one's surprise.

Hey, I can cherry pick too! My favorite line, for anyone who doesn't want to read all of this, is that the obsession with Ukrainian nazis is "is based largely on superficial or out-of-date research". If that doesn't scream Cal88 in a nutshell, I don' know what does.

See here from NPR.
Quote:

The baseless claims are part of a broader pattern

The scholars characterize Putin's claims about genocide and Nazism as part of a long-running attempt to delegitimize Ukraine.

The Soviet Union used similar language like calling pro-Western Ukrainians "Banderites" to discredit Ukrainian nationalism as Nazism, explains Jos Casanova, a professor emeritus of sociology at Georgetown University and senior fellow at the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace, and World Affairs.

"And now we see [Russia is] doing it every time the Ukrainians try to establish a democratic society, they try to say that those are Nazis," he says. "You need to dehumanize the other before you are going to murder them, and this is what's happening now."

But Lautman estimates nationalists make up about 2% of Ukraine's population, with the vast majority having very little interest in anything to do with them.

She said the U.S. probably has a higher percentage of white supremacist and Nazi groups, while Casanova also says Ukraine has a smaller contingency of right-wing groups than other Western countries.
They also note that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is Jewish, as is the former prime minister, Volodymyr Groysman.

Zelenskyy was elected in 2019 with a whopping 73% of the vote a considerably larger share than his predecessors and won a majority in every region, including the most traditional and conservative, according to Casanova.

"In no other European country could you have ... a president, a prime minister being Jewish without having a lot of antimseitic propaganda in media and in newspapers," he says. "It never became an issue."

Putin's claims contradict and distort important parts of 20th-century history while furthering his own agenda, the experts tell NPR.

But Casanova notes that Ukraine "suffered more than Russia from Nazi tanks," saying it lost more of its population during the war than any other country (without counting Europe's 6 million Jewish victims as a nation).

He calls Putin's tactics "simply a mythical use of history" to justify present-day crimes.

Lautman says Putin has long mourned the collapse of the Soviet Union and has "nothing to show" despite having been in power for two decades.

"If he's able to reclaim some of this lost territory, on top of having a few satellite states, which he's been attempting to do over the past decade ... then at least he would have a legacy to leave in the history books of Vladimir the Great," she says.

Yale historian Timothy Snyder described the charge of denazification as a perversion of values, telling CNN that it is "meant to confound us and discourage us and confuse us, but the basic reality is that Putin has everything turned around."

He said Putin's goal appears to be to take Kyiv, arrest Ukraine's political and civil leaders to get them out of power and then try them in some way. That's where the language of genocide comes in, he added.

"I think it's very likely, and he's said as much, that he intends to use the genocide and denazification language to set up some kind of kangaroo court which would serve the purpose of condemning these people to death or ... prison or incarceration."



and here from a scholar.
Quote:

The Azov Regiment (sometimes erroneously still termed the Azov Battalion, though the latter folded in 2014) and the threat of "Ukrainian neo-Nazis" has attracted considerable Western press coverage since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February.

From 2014 to 2022, the Azov Regiment was based in the city of Mariupol in southeast Ukraine, and this year the Azov fighters gained global visibility as defenders of the city, which Russia conquered in May after a bloody two-month siege, destroying most of the city in the process.

The Azov Regiment is frequently invoked to conjure what Russian-Israeli historian Vyacheslav Likhachev calls the "myth [of] Ukrainian fascism", and many Western press sources in 2022 continue to treat the association between "Azov Regiment/Battalion" and "Neo-Nazi" as axiomatic, with some even attempting to draw unsubstantiated links between Azov and white supremacist terrorists in the West.

The "What about Azov Nazis?" canard has become a ubiquitous tu quoque that Russia deploys to problematise Western support for Ukraine, and distract from its own record of atrocities. Literally meaning "you also" in Latin, this logical fallacy is more informally known as "whataboutism", and has been deployed in Russian propaganda for decades. In cruder terms, one might recall the playground retort, "I know you are, but what am I?"

Our media's "obsession" with the Azov Regiment (the volunteer militia the Azov Battalion no longer exists) a single unit of the Ukrainian National Guard is based largely on superficial or out-of-date research.


Multiple expert assessments made in 2022 conclude the modern Azov Regiment is a fairly typical fighting unit, with little, if any, political bent.


There isn't space to canvas all these in a short piece, but this is the conclusion of Anton Shekhovtsov, Ivan Gomza, Anders Umland, and Vyacheslav Likhachev. For a concise summary, Likhachev's point-by-point rebuttal of the Azov-Nazi narrative comes highly recommended.

The Azov Regiment of 2022 bears little relation to the ragtag militia the Azov Battalion of 2014, formed from a few dozen football hooligans, and yes far-right extremists.

Crucially, in late 2014, Azov was absorbed into the Ukrainian National Guard, allowing greater state oversight, with considerable attention paid to cleansing the ranks of far-right elements, in what should be recognised as an example of successful deradicalisation.

The Azov Regiment has been repeatedly reconstituted; its extremist early leaders such as the odious Andriy Biletsky are long gone, and, more recently, its fearsome, pseudo-pagan regimental emblem has been abandoned.

Both Shekhovtsov and Gomza describe Azov as "depoliticised", with Umland writing "its recruits now join not because of ideology, but because it has the reputation of being a particularly tough fighting unit".
Nonetheless, Russian state media makes endless reference to the diabolical "Azovtsy" to justify its brutal invasion of Ukraine.

An analysis of more than eight million Russian media pieces charts how the bogeyman of "Nazism" in Ukraine has saturated their media post-invasion, with the supposed threat of Azov "neo-Nazis" weaponised to justify Russia's brutal destruction of Mariupol.

While we cannot expect integrity from Russian state channels, it's lamentable that this trope also persists in our media.



Unit2Sucks
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The best part about Cal88's farcical pearl-clutching about right wing nationalism in Ukraine is that he supports right-wing nationalism the world over. Whether it's Hungary, Turkey, France, UK or Poland, he's always on the side of right wing nationalists.

Obviously Putin is his favorite and Trump isn't far behind. Anti-semitism plays a part in every single one of those nationalist movements. Every. Single. One. And you'll never hear Cal88 say a word about it because he couldn't care less. He'll never address the obvious fact that nazis play a prominent role in the Russian military or that Putin has signed up Rusich and Russian Imperial Legion - both neo-nazi groups - to help in its campaigns against Ukraine or that there are numerous stories about nazi ideology within the ranks.

Yet he still is trying to gaslight us to believe that right wing nationalism is the reason Cal88 supports Russia's war against Ukraine? Gimme a break. I'll sooner believe that Trump stole national security secrets because he is trying to prevent sexual abuse by politicians.

Anyone who is still waiting to hear Cal88 say one bad thing about Putin or Russia's "special military operation" better not hold their breath.
dajo9
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I hope Cal88 doesn't find out that Republican states are littered with statues of rebels who fought for slave ownership. He will support a military invasion of them.
American Vermin
dimitrig
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dajo9 said:

I hope Cal88 doesn't find out that Republican states are littered with statues of rebels who fought for slave ownership. He will support a military invasion of them.


That wouldn't be the worst idea.

sycasey
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dajo9 said:

I hope Cal88 doesn't find out that Republican states are littered with statues of rebels who fought for slave ownership. He will support a military invasion of them.

I heard a bunch of people from these states are embedded within our armed forces as well. Come set us right, Vlad.
oski003
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dajo9 said:

I hope Cal88 doesn't find out that Republican states are littered with statues of rebels who fought for slave ownership. He will support a military invasion of them.


Did Nazis run the country from its inception and then Ukraine later realized Nazism to be terrible and wrong and then all of the country's historical leaders were cancelled?
oski003
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Come to think of it, Bismarck and Hitler University doesn't quite have the same prestige as Washington and Lee University.
concordtom
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Boy, just scanning here…

Cal88 has definitely earned a reputation and has been getting his butt kicked in multiple threads lately!
golden sloth
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Unit2Sucks said:

The best part about Cal88's farcical pearl-clutching about right wing nationalism in Ukraine is that he supports right-wing nationalism the world over. Whether it's Hungary, Turkey, France, UK or Poland, he's always on the side of right wing nationalists.

Obviously Putin is his favorite and Trump isn't far behind. Anti-semitism plays a part in every single one of those nationalist movements. Every. Single. One. And you'll never hear Cal88 say a word about it because he couldn't care less. He'll never address the obvious fact that nazis play a prominent role in the Russian military or that Putin has signed up Rusich and Russian Imperial Legion - both neo-nazi groups - to help in its campaigns against Ukraine or that there are numerous stories about nazi ideology within the ranks.

Yet he still is trying to gaslight us to believe that right wing nationalism is the reason Cal88 supports Russia's war against Ukraine? Gimme a break. I'll sooner believe that Trump stole national security secrets because he is trying to prevent sexual abuse by politicians.

Anyone who is still waiting to hear Cal88 say one bad thing about Putin or Russia's "special military operation" better not hold their breath.


Unit2Sucks
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golden sloth said:

Unit2Sucks said:

The best part about Cal88's farcical pearl-clutching about right wing nationalism in Ukraine is that he supports right-wing nationalism the world over. Whether it's Hungary, Turkey, France, UK or Poland, he's always on the side of right wing nationalists.

Obviously Putin is his favorite and Trump isn't far behind. Anti-semitism plays a part in every single one of those nationalist movements. Every. Single. One. And you'll never hear Cal88 say a word about it because he couldn't care less. He'll never address the obvious fact that nazis play a prominent role in the Russian military or that Putin has signed up Rusich and Russian Imperial Legion - both neo-nazi groups - to help in its campaigns against Ukraine or that there are numerous stories about nazi ideology within the ranks.

Yet he still is trying to gaslight us to believe that right wing nationalism is the reason Cal88 supports Russia's war against Ukraine? Gimme a break. I'll sooner believe that Trump stole national security secrets because he is trying to prevent sexual abuse by politicians.

Anyone who is still waiting to hear Cal88 say one bad thing about Putin or Russia's "special military operation" better not hold their breath.



Nice try, but what about Cal88's theory that nazis, funded by a Jewish oligarch, secretly run Ukraine and elected a Jewish Prime Minister but didn't manage to get a single seat in parliament? Oh and that we should just ignore all the anti semitism everywhere else, most notably in Russia.

Just give Cal88 this one win. He really needs it! And maybe it will spare us from him sharing some other crackpot conspiracy theory. Have you heard that there are no birds left on the planet? All replaced by drones to spy on us.
golden sloth
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Unit2Sucks said:

golden sloth said:

Unit2Sucks said:

The best part about Cal88's farcical pearl-clutching about right wing nationalism in Ukraine is that he supports right-wing nationalism the world over. Whether it's Hungary, Turkey, France, UK or Poland, he's always on the side of right wing nationalists.

Obviously Putin is his favorite and Trump isn't far behind. Anti-semitism plays a part in every single one of those nationalist movements. Every. Single. One. And you'll never hear Cal88 say a word about it because he couldn't care less. He'll never address the obvious fact that nazis play a prominent role in the Russian military or that Putin has signed up Rusich and Russian Imperial Legion - both neo-nazi groups - to help in its campaigns against Ukraine or that there are numerous stories about nazi ideology within the ranks.

Yet he still is trying to gaslight us to believe that right wing nationalism is the reason Cal88 supports Russia's war against Ukraine? Gimme a break. I'll sooner believe that Trump stole national security secrets because he is trying to prevent sexual abuse by politicians.

Anyone who is still waiting to hear Cal88 say one bad thing about Putin or Russia's "special military operation" better not hold their breath.



Nice try, but what about Cal88's theory that nazis, funded by a Jewish oligarch, secretly run Ukraine and elected a Jewish Prime Minister but didn't manage to get a single seat in parliament? Oh and that we should just ignore all the anti semitism everywhere else, most notably in Russia.

Just give Cal88 this one win. He really needs it! And maybe it will spare us from him sharing some other crackpot conspiracy theory. Have you heard that there are no birds left on the planet? All replaced by drones to spy on us.

I feel like you didn't make it to the end of the video where the narrator concludes it is ridiculous to believe Russia is secretly run by Nazi's, as less than 1% of the Ukrainian military are far right nationalists and the far right currently hold zero seats in parliament.
Unit2Sucks
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golden sloth said:

Unit2Sucks said:

golden sloth said:

Unit2Sucks said:

The best part about Cal88's farcical pearl-clutching about right wing nationalism in Ukraine is that he supports right-wing nationalism the world over. Whether it's Hungary, Turkey, France, UK or Poland, he's always on the side of right wing nationalists.

Obviously Putin is his favorite and Trump isn't far behind. Anti-semitism plays a part in every single one of those nationalist movements. Every. Single. One. And you'll never hear Cal88 say a word about it because he couldn't care less. He'll never address the obvious fact that nazis play a prominent role in the Russian military or that Putin has signed up Rusich and Russian Imperial Legion - both neo-nazi groups - to help in its campaigns against Ukraine or that there are numerous stories about nazi ideology within the ranks.

Yet he still is trying to gaslight us to believe that right wing nationalism is the reason Cal88 supports Russia's war against Ukraine? Gimme a break. I'll sooner believe that Trump stole national security secrets because he is trying to prevent sexual abuse by politicians.

Anyone who is still waiting to hear Cal88 say one bad thing about Putin or Russia's "special military operation" better not hold their breath.



Nice try, but what about Cal88's theory that nazis, funded by a Jewish oligarch, secretly run Ukraine and elected a Jewish Prime Minister but didn't manage to get a single seat in parliament? Oh and that we should just ignore all the anti semitism everywhere else, most notably in Russia.

Just give Cal88 this one win. He really needs it! And maybe it will spare us from him sharing some other crackpot conspiracy theory. Have you heard that there are no birds left on the planet? All replaced by drones to spy on us.

I feel like you didn't make it to the end of the video where the narrator concludes it is ridiculous to believe Russia is secretly run by Nazi's, as less than 1% of the Ukrainian military are far right nationalists and the far right currently hold zero seats in parliament.
Believe me, I don't think Ukraine is run by nazis, I was just being sarcastic. I do appreciate your link, which is consistent with my previous post in this thread that shows how much Cal88 is overstating the nazi presence in Ukraine.

There is some irony to the fact that for centuries conspiracy theorists like Cal88 have complained that jewish people are puppeteers secretly controlling everything behind the scenes. Now they're saying that nazis are actually controlling everything, although Cal88 is also claiming that there are jewish people behind the nazis in Ukraine. It's all a bit ridiculous but Cal88 will believe anything so long as it lines up with Kremlin propaganda.
Sebastabear
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Unit2Sucks said:

golden sloth said:

Unit2Sucks said:

golden sloth said:

Unit2Sucks said:

The best part about Cal88's farcical pearl-clutching about right wing nationalism in Ukraine is that he supports right-wing nationalism the world over. Whether it's Hungary, Turkey, France, UK or Poland, he's always on the side of right wing nationalists.

Obviously Putin is his favorite and Trump isn't far behind. Anti-semitism plays a part in every single one of those nationalist movements. Every. Single. One. And you'll never hear Cal88 say a word about it because he couldn't care less. He'll never address the obvious fact that nazis play a prominent role in the Russian military or that Putin has signed up Rusich and Russian Imperial Legion - both neo-nazi groups - to help in its campaigns against Ukraine or that there are numerous stories about nazi ideology within the ranks.

Yet he still is trying to gaslight us to believe that right wing nationalism is the reason Cal88 supports Russia's war against Ukraine? Gimme a break. I'll sooner believe that Trump stole national security secrets because he is trying to prevent sexual abuse by politicians.

Anyone who is still waiting to hear Cal88 say one bad thing about Putin or Russia's "special military operation" better not hold their breath.



Nice try, but what about Cal88's theory that nazis, funded by a Jewish oligarch, secretly run Ukraine and elected a Jewish Prime Minister but didn't manage to get a single seat in parliament? Oh and that we should just ignore all the anti semitism everywhere else, most notably in Russia.

Just give Cal88 this one win. He really needs it! And maybe it will spare us from him sharing some other crackpot conspiracy theory. Have you heard that there are no birds left on the planet? All replaced by drones to spy on us.

I feel like you didn't make it to the end of the video where the narrator concludes it is ridiculous to believe Russia is secretly run by Nazi's, as less than 1% of the Ukrainian military are far right nationalists and the far right currently hold zero seats in parliament.
Believe me, I don't think Ukraine is run by nazis, I was just being sarcastic. I do appreciate your link, which is consistent with my previous post in this thread that shows how much Cal88 is overstating the nazi presence in Ukraine.

There is some irony to the fact that for centuries conspiracy theorists like Cal88 have complained that jewish people are puppeteers secretly controlling everything behind the scenes. Now they're saying that nazis are actually controlling everything, although Cal88 is also claiming that there are jewish people behind the nazis in Ukraine. It's all a bit ridiculous but Cal88 will believe anything so long as it lines up with Kremlin propaganda.

The belief that Jews were behind the nazis and actually directed the holocaust is a well-worn trope of the neo-Nazi movement. Cal88's absurd statements about Zelensky being backed by a secret Jewish oligarch who is actually a nazi are just another version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It's disgusting.

I mean honestly this entire Putin apologism is dumb. Putin just had to invade Ukraine because [1)14 years ago Ukraine applied to NATO (and was denied), (2) Ukraine has Nazis in its military (providing absolutely zero evidence that there are more Nazis in the Ukrainian army than the Russian army itself), and (3] Ukraine has laws saying it prefers the Ukrainian Language over Russian (because God forbid any nation would ever try to promote its national language - cough, don't looks now but the French are obsessed with doing just that).

I mean this justifies invading a sovereign nation? And we should just ignore Putin making statements about wanting to recreate Czarist Russia, which would entail absorbing several current NATO members? Like that's not a problem?

Putin is a dangerous megalomaniacal thug, and no amount of random posts from a guy whose prior greatest hits include claiming climate change is fake, hydroxychloroquine is awesome, Covid will be disappear in July 2020 and Trump will easily win his reelection will change that.
Cal88
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Sebastabear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

golden sloth said:

Unit2Sucks said:

golden sloth said:

Unit2Sucks said:

The best part about Cal88's farcical pearl-clutching about right wing nationalism in Ukraine is that he supports right-wing nationalism the world over. Whether it's Hungary, Turkey, France, UK or Poland, he's always on the side of right wing nationalists.

Obviously Putin is his favorite and Trump isn't far behind. Anti-semitism plays a part in every single one of those nationalist movements. Every. Single. One. And you'll never hear Cal88 say a word about it because he couldn't care less. He'll never address the obvious fact that nazis play a prominent role in the Russian military or that Putin has signed up Rusich and Russian Imperial Legion - both neo-nazi groups - to help in its campaigns against Ukraine or that there are numerous stories about nazi ideology within the ranks.

Yet he still is trying to gaslight us to believe that right wing nationalism is the reason Cal88 supports Russia's war against Ukraine? Gimme a break. I'll sooner believe that Trump stole national security secrets because he is trying to prevent sexual abuse by politicians.

Anyone who is still waiting to hear Cal88 say one bad thing about Putin or Russia's "special military operation" better not hold their breath.



Nice try, but what about Cal88's theory that nazis, funded by a Jewish oligarch, secretly run Ukraine and elected a Jewish Prime Minister but didn't manage to get a single seat in parliament? Oh and that we should just ignore all the anti semitism everywhere else, most notably in Russia.

Just give Cal88 this one win. He really needs it! And maybe it will spare us from him sharing some other crackpot conspiracy theory. Have you heard that there are no birds left on the planet? All replaced by drones to spy on us.

I feel like you didn't make it to the end of the video where the narrator concludes it is ridiculous to believe Russia is secretly run by Nazi's, as less than 1% of the Ukrainian military are far right nationalists and the far right currently hold zero seats in parliament.
Believe me, I don't think Ukraine is run by nazis, I was just being sarcastic. I do appreciate your link, which is consistent with my previous post in this thread that shows how much Cal88 is overstating the nazi presence in Ukraine.

There is some irony to the fact that for centuries conspiracy theorists like Cal88 have complained that jewish people are puppeteers secretly controlling everything behind the scenes. Now they're saying that nazis are actually controlling everything, although Cal88 is also claiming that there are jewish people behind the nazis in Ukraine. It's all a bit ridiculous but Cal88 will believe anything so long as it lines up with Kremlin propaganda.

The belief that Jews were behind the nazis and actually directed the holocaust is a well-worn trope of the neo-Nazi movement. Cal88's absurd statements about Zelensky being backed by a secret Jewish oligarch who is actually a nazi are just another version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It's disgusting.

You have very little in terms of rationality, and a very limited understanding of geopolitics and EE history. Your posts amount to emotional outbursts of someone who is nose-deep into the cult of Ukraine as the current thing.

Instead of throwing your disgusting and ridiculous slanderous accusations my way, you could at the very least read the articles from reliable news sources that I've posted above on this subject:

https://www.vox.com/2015/3/23/8279397/kolomoisky-oligarch-ukraine-militia

Quote:

It's never good news for the rule of law when an oligarch sends armed men in combat fatigues to occupy a state-owned oil company. That's what just happened in Ukraine, where billionaire oligarch Igor Kolomoisky appears to have sent members of his private army last week to temporarily take over the offices of oil company UkrTransNafta in order to protect his financial interests in the company.


The situation may be even more frightening than it sounds.

Kolomoisky funds and directs a large private militia that has been helping the Kiev government fight against the pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine. Militias like his and there are dozens of them are a source of deep concern to analysts who believe they could threaten Ukraine's long-term stability.

Bands of thugs that became armies


Members of the Azov Battalion, a private militia group, take a public oath in Kiev. ( SERGEI SUPINSKY/AFP/Getty Images)
Kolomoisky, an oligarch who is also the governor of Ukraine's Dnipropetrovsk region, is a significant backer of the pro-Kiev private militias fighting in the country's east. He funds the Dnipro Battalion, a private army that, according to the Wall Street Journal, has 2,000 battle-ready fighters and another 20,000 in reserve. Newsweek reported that Kolomoisky has funded other militia groups, as well.

Before the Russian invasion, it was not unusual to find media coverage that was accurate and neutral on the corrupt nature of Ukrainian politics, and the oligarchs' control of neo-nazi militias. This type of reporting has been purged since.

Kolomoisky is not a "secret Jewish oligarch", he's the owner of, among other things in Ukraine, a large media conglomerate that produced many of Zelensky's TV shows, including the one where he played the role of president. There is nothing secret about this. Much of Zelensky's personal fortune, likely in the mid 9 figures, has been built through his business association with Kolomoisky.

Kolomoisky funded neo-nazi militias, which he used to strengthen his position in the takeover of a number of Ukrainian state-owned large industrial assets. Kolomoisky used these militias to intimidate and eliminate any rivals in his takeover of mills, oil and gas companies, banks, airlines etc.

This is the nature of the Ukrainian oligarchy, and the reason why Ukraine is the most corrupt and poorest country in Europe, with a GDP per capita more than 3 times lower than Russia's. Russia managed to rein in its oligarchs, and has made some significant economic gains in the last two decades with large infrastructure spending and a sound fiscal policy, with virtually no debt and large gold and currency reserves.




Cal88
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Unit2Sucks said:

golden sloth said:

Unit2Sucks said:

The best part about Cal88's farcical pearl-clutching about right wing nationalism in Ukraine is that he supports right-wing nationalism the world over. Whether it's Hungary, Turkey, France, UK or Poland, he's always on the side of right wing nationalists.

Obviously Putin is his favorite and Trump isn't far behind. Anti-semitism plays a part in every single one of those nationalist movements. Every. Single. One. And you'll never hear Cal88 say a word about it because he couldn't care less. He'll never address the obvious fact that nazis play a prominent role in the Russian military or that Putin has signed up Rusich and Russian Imperial Legion - both neo-nazi groups - to help in its campaigns against Ukraine or that there are numerous stories about nazi ideology within the ranks.

Yet he still is trying to gaslight us to believe that right wing nationalism is the reason Cal88 supports Russia's war against Ukraine? Gimme a break. I'll sooner believe that Trump stole national security secrets because he is trying to prevent sexual abuse by politicians.

Anyone who is still waiting to hear Cal88 say one bad thing about Putin or Russia's "special military operation" better not hold their breath.



Nice try, but what about Cal88's theory that nazis, funded by a Jewish oligarch, secretly run Ukraine and elected a Jewish Prime Minister but didn't manage to get a single seat in parliament? Oh and that we should just ignore all the anti semitism everywhere else, most notably in Russia.

Just give Cal88 this one win. He really needs it! And maybe it will spare us from him sharing some other crackpot conspiracy theory. Have you heard that there are no birds left on the planet? All replaced by drones to spy on us.


Alex Rubinstein and Max Blumenthal have done an excellent job documenting the pragmatic alliance between Zelensky & his oligarch backers, and the neo-nazi militias in Ukraine:

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/

Excerpts from this article:

How Ukraine's Jewish president Zelensky made peace with neo-Nazi paramilitaries on front lines of war with Russia


Zelensky awarding neo-Nazi Right Sector commander Dmytro Kotsyubaylo the "Hero of Ukraine" commendation. Known as "Da Vinci," Kosyubaylo keeps a pet wolf in his frontline base, and likes to joke to visiting reporters that his fighters "feed it the bones of Russian-speaking children."

While Western media deploys Volodymyr Zelensky's Jewish heritage to refute accusations of Nazi influence in Ukraine, the president has ceded to neo-Nazi forces and now depends on them as front line fighters.

The president's Jewishness as Western media PR device

Behind the corporate media spin lies the complex and increasingly close relationship Zelensky's administration has enjoyed with the neo-Nazi forces invested with key military and political posts by the Ukrainian state, and the power these open fascists have enjoyed since Washington installed a Western-aligned regime through a coup in 2014.

In fact, Zelensky's top financial backer, the Ukrainian Jewish oligarch Igor Kolomoisky, has been a key benefactor of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion and other extremists militias.

Backed by Zelensky's top financier, neo-Nazi militants unleash a wave of intimidation

Incorporated into the Ukrainian National Guard, the Azov Battalion is considered the most ideologically zealous and militarily motivated unit fighting pro-Russian separatists in the eastern Donbass region.
With Nazi-inspired Wolfsangel insignia on the uniforms of its fighters, who have been photographed with Nazi SS symbols on their helmets, Azov "is known for its association with neo-Nazi ideology…[and] is believed to have participated in training and radicalizing US-based white supremacy organizations," according to an FBI indictment of several US white nationalists that traveled to Kiev to train with Azov.
Igor Kolomoisky, a Ukrainian energy baron of Jewish heritage, has been a top funder of Azov since it was formed in 2014. He has also bankrolled private militias like the Dnipro and Aidar Battalions, and has deployed them as a personal thug squad to protect his financial interests.

In 2019, Kolomoisky emerged as the top backer of Zelensky's presidential bid. Though Zelensky made anti-corruption the signature issue of his campaign, the Pandora Papers exposed him and members of his inner circle stashing large payments from Kolomoisky in a shadowy web of offshore accounts.


President Zelensky (C) meets with billionaire oligarch and business associate Ihor Kolomoisky on September 10, 2019

Zelensky failed to rein in neo-Nazis, wound up collaborating with them

Following his failed attempt to demobilize neo-Nazi militants in the town of Zolote in October 2019, Zelensky called the fighters to the table, telling reporters "I met with veterans yesterday. Everyone was there the National Corps, Azov, and everyone else."


A few seats away from the Jewish president was Yehven Karas, the leader of the neo-Nazi C14 gang. As the former youth wing of the ultra-nationalist Svoboda Party, C14 appears to draw its name from the infamous 14 words of US neo-Nazi leader David Lane: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

Throughout 2019, Zelensky and his administration deepened their ties with ultra-nationalist elements across Ukraine.


Then-Prime Minister Oleksiy Honcharuk onstage at the neo-Nazi "Veterans Strong" concert
After Prime Minister attends neo-Nazi concert, Zelensky honors Right Sector leader
Just days after Zelensky's meeting with Karas and other neo-Nazi leaders in November 2019, Oleksiy Honcharuk then the Prime Minister and deputy head of Zelensky's presidential office appeared on stage at a neo-Nazi concert organized by C14 figure and accused murderer Andriy Medvedko.

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Unfortunately, I don't think the "IStandWithUkraine"/RussiaRussiaRussia brigade on this board is capable of assimilating any element of truth presented here that challenges the prevailing narrative on Ukraine. I kind of expected the Spanish Inquisition, but I've got to admit that I didn't expect the full Protocols of the elders of Zion tag thrown at me, that level of hysteria is a bit over the top...

oski003
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oski003 said:

Interesting article.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/27/politics/russia-ukraine-resistance-warfare/index.html


TTT - biased pro-Ukraine media is a key part of the resistance strategy
Cal88
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This analyst, a vet from Utah, predicted the outcome of Ukrainian policy in the Donbas:



He has had excellent coverage of the Ukraine war, here is his blog:
https://www.imetatronink.com/

Latest assessment on the Ukrainian Kherson offensive:


oski003
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Cal88 said:

This analyst, a vet from Utah, predicted the outcome of Ukrainian policy in the Donbas:



He has had excellent coverage of the Ukraine war, here is his blog:
https://www.imetatronink.com/

Latest assessment on the Ukrainian Kherson offensive:





What does he mean by this?

"As did the US. And now, except for its UK poodle, it will lose its colonies in Europe."

That seems like very strong language.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

Alex Rubinstein and Max Blumenthal have done an excellent job documenting the pragmatic alliance between Zelensky & his oligarch backers, and the neo-nazi militias in Ukraine.
LOL, Rubenstein and Blumenthal. Any more Russian state-sponsored reporters you'd like to quote for us?

https://prospect.org/politics/my-adventures-with-rt-putin-russia/
Quote:

Frequent RT guest and Flynn's fellow conspiracy theorist Max Blumenthal was also a paid speaker
https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/rt-america-reporter-arrested-trump-inauguration-protest/
Quote:

Alexander Rubinstein, a reporter with the Russian state-funded broadcaster RT America, was arrested while covering protests on the day of the inauguration of U.S. President Donald Trump.
dimitrig
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oski003 said:

Cal88 said:

This analyst, a vet from Utah, predicted the outcome of Ukrainian policy in the Donbas:



He has had excellent coverage of the Ukraine war, here is his blog:
https://www.imetatronink.com/

Latest assessment on the Ukrainian Kherson offensive:





What does he mean by this?

"As did the US. And now, except for its UK poodle, it will lose its colonies in Europe."

That seems like very strong language.


It is totally delusional like a lot of Russian propaganda.
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