The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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Cal88
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2:41p, 4/12/23
Pretty cool footage of a Ukrainian Su-27 and Mig-29 taking off from an improvised short dirt strip:



Most Russian fighter jets have been built with that functionality, the ability to take off from short, rough strips, with their sturdy landing gear and dorsal air intakes activated during take offs and landings, as well they also have lower-maintenance and servicing needs. Sweden has had the same philosophy for its Saab jets, because they anticipate that most of their runways would be taken out early on in a wartime situation.

F16s or F15s need much longer concrete runways. F16s in particular need very clean runways because their large ventral intake is very close to the ground and would suck in pebbles or other objects that would ruin its engine.

The footage above was from earlier this winter, Ukraine still has a handful of these jets furnished by Poland playing hide and seek, though their lifetime is pretty short due to the fact that their radars are outdated and are no match for newer Sukhois and Migs with R37M beyond visual range missiles capable of downing an opponent from over 300km away. A Mig-31 or Su-57 flying over SF could take out a jet over San Luis Obispo.

One wildcard for Ukraine that I haven't heard mentioned could be F-35Bs, version with vertical take off and landing. It would still be fairly vulnerable on the ground as the range of VTOL is limited, but at least it might last longer in flight due to its stealth. I think NATO might be reluctant to use them because if they get shot down too easily due to advanced Russian radar capabilities, it would destroy the brand, which cost $1.6 trillion to built (could be the most expensive weapon program in history).
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 4:12p, 4/12/23
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
Btw, I salute you patriots for basically ignoring the intelligence leak that validated much of what ML and Cal88 had said.

What exactly has been validated in this intelligence leak? That the US and other countries have small numbers of special-forces people in Ukraine? I already knew that. We'd been helping and training the Ukrainian military (at their request) for years since the Crimea invasion.

Among other items, the ratio of killed in action, of over 4 to 1 in favor of Russia (though that it most likely an undercount), the alarming level of equipment and ammunition shortage for Ukraine, which validates the Russian military strategy of a war of attrition.

edit: apparently the overall KIA posted in one of these documents might be 7 to 1, which is more in line with earlier reports and sources that I've covered in this thread, like MacGregor's, who has had access to this insider info since day 1.
You mean the real documents or the ones that have possibly been altered by Russian propagandists?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/06/us/politics/ukraine-war-plan-russia.html
Quote:
The analysts warned that documents released by Russian sources could be selectively altered to present the Kremlin's disinformation.

"Whether these documents are authentic or not, people should take care with anything released by Russian sources," said Michael Kofman, the director of Russian studies at CNA, a research institute in Arlington, Va.

For example, one of the slides said 16,000 to 17,500 Russian soldiers had been killed while Ukraine had suffered as many as 71,500 troop deaths. The Pentagon and other analysts have estimated that Russia has suffered far more casualties, with closer to 200,000 killed and injured, while Ukraine has had more than 100,000 killed and injured.

Of course "the Pentagon and other analysts" would never lie to you.
Yes, and random unverified Twitter accounts certainly never would either!

Seriously though, if Ukraine were really losing troops at a 4-to-1 or 7-to-1 rate greater than Russia, then Russia should be doing a lot better in the war by now. Heck, they should have already won. I'm extremely skeptical of these claims.

The documents leaked are authentic, confirmed by many sources, nothing to do with "random unverified twitter accounts".

Ukraine has had nearly half a million casualties, vs around 100,000 for the Russians. The Russians are not primarily fighting for territory, they are leading the kind of warfare that maximizes Ukrainian losses and minimizes theirs, relying on artillery volume.

The reason Ukraine is still standing is because they're throwing another quarter million into the fray. At some point later this year they will reach their breaking point, either because they will have run out of men, or for lack of equipment. Their situation has become all the more precarious because they have lost most of their air defense, while the Russians are stepping up their use of long-range, large, precision-guided gliding bombs that are further degrading Ukrainian defensive positions and supply lines.
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:07p, 4/12/23
Cal88 said:
The documents leaked are authentic, confirmed by many sources, nothing to do with "random unverified twitter accounts".

Name them.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 7:31p, 4/12/23
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
The documents leaked are authentic, confirmed by many sources, nothing to do with "random unverified twitter accounts".

Name them.

BBC:

Quote:
By Paul Adams
BBC Diplomatic Correspondent

What to make of the dozens of classified US Defence Department documents - maps, charts and photographs - now circulating on the internet?

Complete with timelines and dozens of impenetrable military acronyms, the documents, some of them marked "top secret", paint a detailed picture of the war in Ukraine.

They tell of the casualties suffered on both sides, the military vulnerabilities of each and, crucially, what their relative strengths are likely to be when Ukraine decides to launch its much-anticipated spring offensive.

How real are these printed pages, unfolded and photographed, possibly on someone's dining room table? And what do they tell us, or the Kremlin, that we did not already know?

First things first: this is the biggest leak of secret American information on the war in Ukraine since Russia's full-scale invasion 14 months ago. Some of the documents are as much as six weeks old, but the implications are huge.

Pentagon officials are quoted as saying the documents are real.

Information on at least one of them appears to have been crudely altered in a later version, but out of a dump of as many as 100 documents, that seems a relatively minor detail.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65225985


CNN:

Quote:
DOJ opens investigation into leaks of apparent classified US military documents

By Sean Lyngaas, Natasha Bertrand and Hannah Rabinowitz, CNN

The Department of Justice has opened an investigation into the leaks of a trove of apparent US intelligence documents that were posted on social media in recent weeks.

The investigation comes as new documents surfaced Friday covering everything from US support for Ukraine to information about key US allies like Israel, widening the fallout from the already alarming leaks. The Pentagon on Thursday said it was looking into the matter after social media posts of apparently classified documents on the war in Ukraine had emerged.

"They look real," a US official told CNN about the leaked documents.

US officials say they are taking the leaks seriously as they investigate and work toward a more formal assessment of what is in the documents and how they were leaked. So far, they appear legitimate, and there isn't a major reason to doubt that the documents are in fact what they appear to be. US officials believe their public release would represent a significant breach.

The documents that were surfaced on Friday by open-source intelligence researchers appear to have been posted online in the past few weeks. They appear to contain classified information on topics ranging from the mercenary Wagner Group's operations in Africa and Israel's pathways to providing lethal aid to Ukraine, to intelligence about the United Arab Emirates' ties to Russia and South Korean concerns about providing ammunition to the US for use in Ukraine.

CNN could not independently verify that the documents have not been altered. But they are similar to a tranche of classified documents about Ukraine that have been circulating online in recent weeks, which US officials on Friday morning confirmed to CNN to be authentic.

Much like those documents, Friday's discoveries were also photos of printed-out, wrinkled documents. All bore classified markings, some top secret the highest level of classification. They also all appear to have been produced between mid-February and early March.
It is unclear who is behind the leaks and where, exactly, they originated.

Officials rattled

The leaks have rattled Pentagon officials, particularly within the Defense Department's Joint Staff, which comprises the DoD's most senior uniformed leadership, whose role is to advise the president. Many of the documents had markings indicating that they were produced by the Joint Staff's intelligence arm, known as J2, and appear to be briefing documents.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/07/politics/pentagon-leaked-ukraine-documents/index.html
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dimitrig
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In reply to Cal88 • 8:01p, 4/12/23
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
The documents leaked are authentic, confirmed by many sources, nothing to do with "random unverified twitter accounts".

Name them.

BBC:

Quote:
By Paul Adams
BBC Diplomatic Correspondent

What to make of the dozens of classified US Defence Department documents - maps, charts and photographs - now circulating on the internet?

Complete with timelines and dozens of impenetrable military acronyms, the documents, some of them marked "top secret", paint a detailed picture of the war in Ukraine.

They tell of the casualties suffered on both sides, the military vulnerabilities of each and, crucially, what their relative strengths are likely to be when Ukraine decides to launch its much-anticipated spring offensive.

How real are these printed pages, unfolded and photographed, possibly on someone's dining room table? And what do they tell us, or the Kremlin, that we did not already know?

First things first: this is the biggest leak of secret American information on the war in Ukraine since Russia's full-scale invasion 14 months ago. Some of the documents are as much as six weeks old, but the implications are huge.

Pentagon officials are quoted as saying the documents are real.

Information on at least one of them appears to have been crudely altered in a later version, but out of a dump of as many as 100 documents, that seems a relatively minor detail.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65225985


CNN:

Quote:
DOJ opens investigation into leaks of apparent classified US military documents

By Sean Lyngaas, Natasha Bertrand and Hannah Rabinowitz, CNN

The Department of Justice has opened an investigation into the leaks of a trove of apparent US intelligence documents that were posted on social media in recent weeks.

The investigation comes as new documents surfaced Friday covering everything from US support for Ukraine to information about key US allies like Israel, widening the fallout from the already alarming leaks. The Pentagon on Thursday said it was looking into the matter after social media posts of apparently classified documents on the war in Ukraine had emerged.

"They look real," a US official told CNN about the leaked documents.

US officials say they are taking the leaks seriously as they investigate and work toward a more formal assessment of what is in the documents and how they were leaked. So far, they appear legitimate, and there isn't a major reason to doubt that the documents are in fact what they appear to be. US officials believe their public release would represent a significant breach.

The documents that were surfaced on Friday by open-source intelligence researchers appear to have been posted online in the past few weeks. They appear to contain classified information on topics ranging from the mercenary Wagner Group's operations in Africa and Israel's pathways to providing lethal aid to Ukraine, to intelligence about the United Arab Emirates' ties to Russia and South Korean concerns about providing ammunition to the US for use in Ukraine.

CNN could not independently verify that the documents have not been altered. But they are similar to a tranche of classified documents about Ukraine that have been circulating online in recent weeks, which US officials on Friday morning confirmed to CNN to be authentic.

Much like those documents, Friday's discoveries were also photos of printed-out, wrinkled documents. All bore classified markings, some top secret the highest level of classification. They also all appear to have been produced between mid-February and early March.
It is unclear who is behind the leaks and where, exactly, they originated.

Officials rattled

The leaks have rattled Pentagon officials, particularly within the Defense Department's Joint Staff, which comprises the DoD's most senior uniformed leadership, whose role is to advise the president. Many of the documents had markings indicating that they were produced by the Joint Staff's intelligence arm, known as J2, and appear to be briefing documents.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/07/politics/pentagon-leaked-ukraine-documents/index.html


I can imagine a lot of scenarios in which Pentagon officials would vouch for the veracity of fake documents.

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Cal88
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In reply to dimitrig • 8:16p, 4/12/23
dimitrig said:

I can imagine a lot of scenarios in which Pentagon officials would vouch for the veracity of fake documents.

OK then - we went from these documents being the product of "random unverified twitter accounts", to a byzantine Pentagon double bluff. Hey at least we're making some progress here.

Independent analysts like former intelligence officers Ray McGovern and Larry Johnson have also confirmed the documents' authenticity, having worked with such items for decades, and having examined their content, and the context in which they were used and released.

They seem to have a decent picture of what went down, comparing this release to Ellsberg's Pentagon Papers, which also involved a higher-level insider being motivated by the fact that officials have kept the truth away from the public in order to keep that war going.
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:06p, 4/12/23
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
The documents leaked are authentic, confirmed by many sources, nothing to do with "random unverified twitter accounts".

Name them.

BBC:

Quote:
By Paul Adams
BBC Diplomatic Correspondent

What to make of the dozens of classified US Defence Department documents - maps, charts and photographs - now circulating on the internet?

Complete with timelines and dozens of impenetrable military acronyms, the documents, some of them marked "top secret", paint a detailed picture of the war in Ukraine.

They tell of the casualties suffered on both sides, the military vulnerabilities of each and, crucially, what their relative strengths are likely to be when Ukraine decides to launch its much-anticipated spring offensive.

How real are these printed pages, unfolded and photographed, possibly on someone's dining room table? And what do they tell us, or the Kremlin, that we did not already know?

First things first: this is the biggest leak of secret American information on the war in Ukraine since Russia's full-scale invasion 14 months ago. Some of the documents are as much as six weeks old, but the implications are huge.

Pentagon officials are quoted as saying the documents are real.

Information on at least one of them appears to have been crudely altered in a later version, but out of a dump of as many as 100 documents, that seems a relatively minor detail.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65225985


CNN:

Quote:
DOJ opens investigation into leaks of apparent classified US military documents

By Sean Lyngaas, Natasha Bertrand and Hannah Rabinowitz, CNN

The Department of Justice has opened an investigation into the leaks of a trove of apparent US intelligence documents that were posted on social media in recent weeks.

The investigation comes as new documents surfaced Friday covering everything from US support for Ukraine to information about key US allies like Israel, widening the fallout from the already alarming leaks. The Pentagon on Thursday said it was looking into the matter after social media posts of apparently classified documents on the war in Ukraine had emerged.

"They look real," a US official told CNN about the leaked documents.

US officials say they are taking the leaks seriously as they investigate and work toward a more formal assessment of what is in the documents and how they were leaked. So far, they appear legitimate, and there isn't a major reason to doubt that the documents are in fact what they appear to be. US officials believe their public release would represent a significant breach.

The documents that were surfaced on Friday by open-source intelligence researchers appear to have been posted online in the past few weeks. They appear to contain classified information on topics ranging from the mercenary Wagner Group's operations in Africa and Israel's pathways to providing lethal aid to Ukraine, to intelligence about the United Arab Emirates' ties to Russia and South Korean concerns about providing ammunition to the US for use in Ukraine.

CNN could not independently verify that the documents have not been altered. But they are similar to a tranche of classified documents about Ukraine that have been circulating online in recent weeks, which US officials on Friday morning confirmed to CNN to be authentic.

Much like those documents, Friday's discoveries were also photos of printed-out, wrinkled documents. All bore classified markings, some top secret the highest level of classification. They also all appear to have been produced between mid-February and early March.
It is unclear who is behind the leaks and where, exactly, they originated.

Officials rattled

The leaks have rattled Pentagon officials, particularly within the Defense Department's Joint Staff, which comprises the DoD's most senior uniformed leadership, whose role is to advise the president. Many of the documents had markings indicating that they were produced by the Joint Staff's intelligence arm, known as J2, and appear to be briefing documents.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/07/politics/pentagon-leaked-ukraine-documents/index.html
I have little doubt that the leaks involved real documents; that's not the question here. The question is whether or not the specific detail about Ukraine suffering many more casualties than Russia is accurate.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/09/politics/pentagon-leaked-documents-us-spying-allies-foes/index.html
Quote:
According to one of the documents, Russian forces had suffered 189,500 to 223,000 casualties as of February, including as many as 43,000 troops killed in action. Ukraine, meanwhile, had suffered 124,500 to 131,000 casualties, with up to 17,500 killed in action, the report says.

Bad actors are already using the leaked documents to spread disinformation, analysts say. The document with casualty numbers, for example, was altered in recent weeks to more than halve the number of Russian deaths, before being spread on pro-Russian Telegram channels.
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movielover
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In reply to sycasey • 9:08p, 4/12/23
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
Btw, I salute you patriots for basically ignoring the intelligence leak that validated much of what ML and Cal88 had said.

What exactly has been validated in this intelligence leak? That the US and other countries have small numbers of special-forces people in Ukraine? I already knew that. We'd been helping and training the Ukrainian military (at their request) for years since the Crimea invasion.

Among other items, the ratio of killed in action, of over 4 to 1 in favor of Russia (though that it most likely an undercount), the alarming level of equipment and ammunition shortage for Ukraine, which validates the Russian military strategy of a war of attrition.

edit: apparently the overall KIA posted in one of these documents might be 7 to 1, which is more in line with earlier reports and sources that I've covered in this thread, like MacGregor's, who has had access to this insider info since day 1.
You mean the real documents or the ones that have possibly been altered by Russian propagandists?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/06/us/politics/ukraine-war-plan-russia.html
Quote:
The analysts warned that documents released by Russian sources could be selectively altered to present the Kremlin's disinformation.

"Whether these documents are authentic or not, people should take care with anything released by Russian sources," said Michael Kofman, the director of Russian studies at CNA, a research institute in Arlington, Va.

For example, one of the slides said 16,000 to 17,500 Russian soldiers had been killed while Ukraine had suffered as many as 71,500 troop deaths. The Pentagon and other analysts have estimated that Russia has suffered far more casualties, with closer to 200,000 killed and injured, while Ukraine has had more than 100,000 killed and injured.

Of course "the Pentagon and other analysts" would never lie to you.
Yes, and random unverified Twitter accounts certainly never would either!

Seriously though, if Ukraine were really losing troops at a 4-to-1 or 7-to-1 rate greater than Russia, then Russia should be doing a lot better in the war by now. Heck, they should have already won. I'm extremely skeptical of these claims.


Let's see, our military is trying to downplay this leak while the FBI investigates the only 'partly true' report.
Define 'winning?

- if wars are typically a 5% or 10% difference in kill rate, a 7-to-1 would be a historic [sad] bloodbath
- 95% of heavy equipment shredded
- air defense to be completely erased in 6 weeks?
- potentially over 300K KIA and another 400-500K injured in action
- ammo depleted worldwide, including NATO and Germany, and only token rounds at hand with no ability to replace
- NATO and US fail to degrade Russia, which gains experience and closer ties with China and Iran

And Russia accomplished all this with no ammo, old tanks, no technology and shovels.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:28p, 4/12/23
Do you think if Ukraine sends 50,000 armed drones, 1,000 at a time... can Russia stop most of them? What if Ukraine targets Crimea exclusively - a saturation drone offensive? Or sends a drone attack to Moscow - can they fly that far, and would the volley be too painful?

Judge Napolitano and Scott Ritter, briefly:

- Kirby tells citizens not to read it, and sounds worried?
- worry that there is more to come?
- Ritter believes the leak and content
- Guest Jack Devine, former (?) CIA, tries to sell a 7-to-1 kill ratio of Russians to Ukranians! Still working for the CIA, or drank the DC Koolaid?
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 10:55p, 4/12/23
sycasey said:

I have little doubt that the leaks involved real documents; that's not the question here. The question is whether or not the specific detail about Ukraine suffering many more casualties than Russia is accurate.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/09/politics/pentagon-leaked-documents-us-spying-allies-foes/index.html
Quote:
According to one of the documents, Russian forces had suffered 189,500 to 223,000 casualties as of February, including as many as 43,000 troops killed in action. Ukraine, meanwhile, had suffered 124,500 to 131,000 casualties, with up to 17,500 killed in action, the report says.

Bad actors are already using the leaked documents to spread disinformation, analysts say. The document with casualty numbers, for example, was altered in recent weeks to more than halve the number of Russian deaths, before being spread on pro-Russian Telegram channels.

4 months ago, EU head Ursula von der Leyen declared in a formal speech that over 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed.



Von der Leyen is not a complete ingenue here, she was the former German Defense Minister. She is fully aware of the real numbers, and let that slip into her speech and tweet. Soon afterwards she edited that part out, which only confirmed the enormity of her candid moment - Streisand Effect.

So for any news outlet to claim that Ukraine has had 17,500 KIAs (which sounds like the official Ukrainian published numbers), like CNN did above, amounts to a deliberate exercise in gaslighting of the masses.

The enormity of that kind of wartime propaganda is probably what compelled the whistleblower to leak these documents, the gap between reality and the wartime MSM being incredibly wide.
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Big C
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In reply to Cal88 • 11:09p, 4/12/23

i have a theory that anybody named ursula -- under a certain age... say, fifty -- is probably going to be fairly hot
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 11:14p, 4/12/23
Cal88 said:
So for any news outlet to claim that Ukraine has had 17,500 KIAs (which sounds like the official Ukrainian published numbers), like CNN did above, amounts to a deliberate exercise in gaslighting of the masses.

So when you cite CNN quoting their analysts stating that the leaked documents appear real, that is true.

But when I cite CNN quoting their analysts saying that the casualty numbers have been altered from the original documents to show lower Russian losses, that is just propaganda.

Heads you win, tails I lose, I guess.
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dimitrig
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In reply to Big C • 11:40p, 4/12/23
Big C said:

i have a theory that anybody named ursula -- under a certain age... say, fifty -- is probably going to be fairly hot

There was a girl in high school named Ursula who had a crush on me, but she wasn't my type.

However, now that I am a lot older I realize that she was exactly my type: 18 years old and interested in me.

Oh well!

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movielover
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6:31a, 4/13/23
The WashPo has an exclusive, reportedly a youngster who had interactions with the leaker, "OG". Bizarre framing, and the racism drop. He / she / they has lots more classified military / politico info?

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movielover
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7:29a, 4/13/23
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10:34a, 4/13/23
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movielover
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11:11a, 4/13/23
Tony Shaffer thinks the kill ratio in Ukraine could be as high as 10 to 1.

Meanwhile, Macron has said France needs to be stronger and not a vassel state of the US. I'm sure Germany agrees.
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dajo9
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In reply to movielover • 11:13a, 4/13/23
movielover said:
Tony Shaffer thinks the kill ratio in Ukraine could be as high as 10 to 1.

Meanwhile, Macron has said France needs to be stronger and not a vassel state of the US. I'm sure Germany agrees.
Jack? Is that you?
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Cal88
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11:19a, 4/13/23
Movielover is an O.G., but not that O.G.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to movielover • 12:23p, 4/13/23
movielover said:
Tony Shaffer thinks the kill ratio in Ukraine could be as high as 10 to 1.

Meanwhile, Macron has said France needs to be stronger and not a vassel state of the US. I'm sure Germany agrees.
I'll say the kill ratio in Ukraine is 25 to 1. Please advise your media sources that I'm available for media interviews, book deals and lucrative public appearances.
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oski003
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 12:35p, 4/13/23
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
movielover said:
Tony Shaffer thinks the kill ratio in Ukraine could be as high as 10 to 1.

Meanwhile, Macron has said France needs to be stronger and not a vassel state of the US. I'm sure Germany agrees.
I'll say the kill ratio in Ukraine is 25 to 1. Please advise your media sources that I'm available for media interviews, book deals and lucrative public appearances.


Shaffer is a million times more qualified than you to give assessments on the war. On the other hand, you are probably more qualified to be president than Biden. You seem ambitious. Have you thought of running?
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movielover
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 12:35p, 4/13/23
Judge Nap might give you some great perks.

US / NATO still haven't come to their senses, fighting to the last Ukranian.
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Cal88
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5:28p, 4/13/23
"Seymour Hersh: the CIA Knows Ukrainian Officials Are Skimming US Aid.

Hersh says the CIA estimates at least $400 million was embezzled last year in funds earmarked for diesel payments.

The Ukraine government, headed by Volodymyr Zelensky, has been using American taxpayers' funds to pay dearly for the vitally needed diesel fuel that is keeping the Ukrainian army on the move in its war with Russia. It is unknown how much the Zelensky government is paying per gallon for the fuel, but the Pentagon was paying as much as $400 per gallon to transport gasoline from a port in Pakistan, via truck or parachute, into Afghanistan during the decades-long American war there.

What also is unknown is that Zelensky has been buying the fuel from Russia, the country with which it, and Washington, are at war, and the Ukrainian president and many in his entourage have been skimming untold millions from the American dollars earmarked for diesel fuel payments. One estimate by analysts from the Central Intelligence Agency put the embezzled funds at $400 million last year, at least; another expert compared the level of corruption in Kiev as approaching that of the Afghan war, "although there will be no professional audit reports emerging from the Ukraine."

"Zelensky's been buying discount diesel from the Russians," one knowledgeable American intelligence official told me. "And who's paying for the gas and oil? We are. Putin and his oligarchs are making millions" on it.

Many government ministries in Kiev have been literally "competing," I was told, to set up front companies for export contracts for weapons and ammunition with private arms dealers around the world, all of which provide kickbacks. Many of those companies are in Poland and Czechia, but others are thought to exist in the Persian Gulf and Israel. "I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there are others in places like the Cayman Islands and Panama, and there are lots of Americans involved," an American expert on international trade told me. "


https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/trading-with-the-enemy?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1377040&post_id=114123549&isFreemail=false&utm_medium=email
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MinotStateBeav
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5:32p, 4/13/23
The end of this war is going to be Zelensky on a helicopter with bags of money, escaping isn't it? I've seen this movie, Movielover!!!
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Cal88
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5:44p, 4/13/23
He already has hundreds of millions stashed abroad, so he will travel light and comfortable in his khaki sweats and sneakers when his Saigon Rooftop moment comes.

Ukraine with highest number of politicians named in the Pandora Papers by a wide margin.
https://www.axios.com/2021/10/05/pandora-papers-politicians-countries

Pandora Papers Reveal Offshore Holdings of Ukrainian President and his Inner Circle
https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle
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sycasey
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In reply to oski003 • 6:23p, 4/13/23
oski003 said:
Shaffer is a million times more qualified than you to give assessments on the war.

Is he? Shaffer hasn't had a job in government since 2006. What special information on the Ukraine War does he have?
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oski003
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In reply to sycasey • 6:36p, 4/13/23
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
Shaffer is a million times more qualified than you to give assessments on the war.

Is he? Shaffer hasn't had a job in government since 2006. What special information on the Ukraine War does he have?


This is incredibly easy to find if you actually care to. Have fun.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-shaffer-115a723
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:14p, 4/13/23
Cal88 said:
"Seymour Hersh: the CIA Knows Ukrainian Officials Are Skimming US Aid.

Hersh says the CIA estimates at least $400 million was embezzled last year in funds earmarked for diesel payments.

The Ukraine government, headed by Volodymyr Zelensky, has been using American taxpayers' funds to pay dearly for the vitally needed diesel fuel that is keeping the Ukrainian army on the move in its war with Russia. It is unknown how much the Zelensky government is paying per gallon for the fuel, but the Pentagon was paying as much as $400 per gallon to transport gasoline from a port in Pakistan, via truck or parachute, into Afghanistan during the decades-long American war there.

What also is unknown is that Zelensky has been buying the fuel from Russia, the country with which it, and Washington, are at war, and the Ukrainian president and many in his entourage have been skimming untold millions from the American dollars earmarked for diesel fuel payments. One estimate by analysts from the Central Intelligence Agency put the embezzled funds at $400 million last year, at least; another expert compared the level of corruption in Kiev as approaching that of the Afghan war, "although there will be no professional audit reports emerging from the Ukraine."

"Zelensky's been buying discount diesel from the Russians," one knowledgeable American intelligence official told me. "And who's paying for the gas and oil? We are. Putin and his oligarchs are making millions" on it.

Many government ministries in Kiev have been literally "competing," I was told, to set up front companies for export contracts for weapons and ammunition with private arms dealers around the world, all of which provide kickbacks. Many of those companies are in Poland and Czechia, but others are thought to exist in the Persian Gulf and Israel. "I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there are others in places like the Cayman Islands and Panama, and there are lots of Americans involved," an American expert on international trade told me. "

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/trading-with-the-enemy?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1377040&post_id=114123549&isFreemail=false&utm_medium=email


Unit2Sucks: But, but, but... firehose of falsehoods... racist Putin stooges!
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movielover
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7:15p, 4/13/23
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MinotStateBeav
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7:19p, 4/13/23







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movielover
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In reply to sycasey • 7:34p, 4/13/23
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
Shaffer is a million times more qualified than you to give assessments on the war.

Is he? Shaffer hasn't had a job in government since 2006. What special information on the Ukraine War does he have?


Having a govt job is key for you?
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Cal88
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7:37p, 4/13/23
There are dozens of such sites popping up across Ukraine, this is what "to the last Ukrainian" looks like:



(Kyiv wants to make publishing videos like this one a criminal offense.)

RIP
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dimitrig
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:41p, 4/13/23
Cal88 said:
There are dozens of such sites popping up across Ukraine, this is what "to the last Ukrainian" looks like:



(Kyiv wants to make publishing videos like this one a criminal offense.)

RIP


I think it is terrible that Putin killed all those people for no good reason.

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Cal88
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In reply to dimitrig • 7:57p, 4/13/23
dimitrig said:
Cal88 said:
There are dozens of such sites popping up across Ukraine, this is what "to the last Ukrainian" looks like:



(Kyiv wants to make publishing videos like this one a criminal offense.)

RIP

I think it is terrible that Putin killed all those people for no good reason.

There is a whole discipline dedicated to analyzing those reasons, it's called geopolitics.

A summary understanding of that discipline might prevent these cemeteries from growing twice as large by the end of this year.
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sycasey
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In reply to movielover • 9:42p, 4/13/23
movielover said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
Shaffer is a million times more qualified than you to give assessments on the war.

Is he? Shaffer hasn't had a job in government since 2006. What special information on the Ukraine War does he have?


Having a govt job is key for you?

Not necessarily, but the question is what information does he have that everyone else in the media doesn't?

His LinkedIn page doesn't tell me that either.
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